What I DON'T like about Dennis Kucinich

[Loyal]

Let me say, there are some things I don't like about Dennis Kucinich:

First, I don't like how he criticizes the other candidates for voting yes on the IWR. He basically has this holier than thou attitude which I cannot stand, and it's ridiculous, too, because Kucinich had a 5 year anti-choice voting record up till last year. Yeah, he wanted to force women to bear children, that is REAL progressive. :puke: Sorry Dennis, I don't care if you are catholic, that is no excuse to intrude on a woman's right to choose. Oh, and your previous anti-medical marijuana stand is REAL progressive. So is your support of the flag burning amendment. :puke:

Secondly, I can't stand Dennis's health care plan. Under Dennis's Medicare for All plan, private health insurance companies like BCBS would be banned from offering health insurance, unless it was supplemental. That is real progressive... NOT! What if I like my health insurance? I happen to like my blue cross blue shield, and I DON'T want to give it up, Dennis. Why can't you just go with Dean or Kerry's plan which doesn't force us all into a govt health system? I wonder. Maybe because Dean and Kerry's plans aren't socialist...

What do you think? How is it fair to force people into a health insurance plan like Medicare for All that they don't want?

[cosmicdot]

1. but, you're not supporting Dennis, are you

so, why a negative thread?

[JohnKleeb]

3. Yes and btw Loyal for the record

I think you are a Kerry supporter right? I have Kerry second on my list, and that war vote does bother me a lot but I can look beyond it and see Kerry has a good record, Kucinich is my candiate yes he is but Kerry is a good senator and progressive.

[sasquatch]

2. I'm glad he criticizes our canidates for voting for Bush's oil war

He's admitted to making mistakes and his policy on abortion and the war on drugs. His plan is basicaly single payer type plan that is in Canada. I hope the private health providers go under because of thier "profits before people" mentality and how they like to make health care a unaffordable necissaty for americans to have. If they don't like it tough shit.

[Deja Q]

8. Well said!

It's people like you that make life almost tolerable.

There has got to be change. Haves and have nots. The haves have had it for far too long and constantly urinate on the have-nots in the process. It's time for change and the haves are going to have to shut the fuck up and lump it. They get plenty of perks as it is.

[jiacinto]

22. What about the people who work for these companies?

I am not talking about the CEOs, but the people who are receptionists, file clerks, and adminstrative assistants. What about their jobs?

Will you support them?

[hippywife]

35. It's entirely within the realm

of possibility that they will retained to administer the new system. Medicare is not administered by the government itself. There are private companies that handle the paperwork and pay outs for them. Difference is these private companies don't decide that you can't have a procedure to save your life because it eats into their profits. All they do is push the paper. No incentive for them to mess with folks lives because they are administrators only.

[cosmicdot]

71. exactly - I feel we can trust DK to be sensitive to any transition

... and, that implementation of a new healthcare system would included provisions for such transitions ...

corporations would just fire everyone and move to another town not giving a righteous look-back ... those 'corporate citizens' could care less about the displaced ...

[snoochie]

83. DK said as much ...

in the "Road to the White House" town hall type meeting.

It's available to watch on C-Span. Great appearance. Also linked from his webpage.

[Ardee]

85. what in heck does this have do do with anything?

So we should support the actions of Enron because it employed so many?

Perhaps we might mourn the demise of Global Crossing because of all the secretaries thrown out of work?

Why do you not htink things through, Carlos? Georgetown certainly let you down.......

[MuseRider]

4. You have every right to your

opinion but why put it this way? It is so easy here to have a productive dialogue without framing the debate in a way intended to make people upset.

[eileen_d]

7. Kucinich supporters are so cool!

You're like kindergarten teachers responding calmly to a child having a tantrum -- and appropriately so!

:yourock: and I mean that!

[JohnKleeb]

10. Thanks

I dont get this honestly Eileen, I havent been attacking other candiates, I have my misgivings but I am not gonna shove it down people. The congressman is a good man and we support him for many reasons.

[MuseRider]

13. Thanks but I fear I destroyed

that reputation for myself last week! I am trying to make up for my temper tantrum.

[roughsatori]

26. MuseRider, I too am watching the "temper tantrums"

You and the other Kucicinich supporters helped me not have to respond to the original post with vitriol. I disagreed with the points and logic that the poster used to attack Kucinich and was ready to refute them---but the lines about health insurance sounded so much like Republican Insurance Company lobbyist's points that I was angry. The other men and woman responding in this thread helped me not to lose it. Thanks

(Hi JohnKleeb)

[MuseRider]

34. You are welcome

John Kleeb is IMing me as I write this! It is difficult but I was so ashamed last week that I have to watch it.

[cosmicdot]

38. having taught school in my 53 years - why, thank you

:hi:

[eileen_d]

42. you're welcome

I'm currently volunteering in a Head Start classroom so I know what calmly confronting tantrums looks like!

Oops, I'm hijacking a negative thread with positivity. Spank me for that! :0

[cosmicdot]

60. let the "positivity" shine in

it's how we can turn the tide against the negativism, antagonism, cynicism pervasive in our society - particularly pseudo-led by the politics of the right and their mob for the last couple of decades

[MuseRider]

69. For the most part

we seem to be a happy bunch. DK gives me courage and hope. I have no illusions about what the press will do to him and what the RW will say. I also have my doubts that enough people are truly ready for him after the last month or so around here. That is OK, their right, but we do tend to be a happy bunch and that says a lot to me. Peace feels good and we are willing to work for it.

[cosmicdot]

70. you're spot on

[no name no slogan]

95. Agreed

Although I admit I can be a little tempramental at times! :)

I think that's what separates us from so many other "anti-establishment" type campaigns. We are not filled with rage, but with OUTRAGE.

RAGE is just another form of hate, (mis)directed at everything and everyone, while OUTRAGE is more informed, and directed at the things that we see are wrong. OUTRAGE is less hateful, and more reightious, and more about making things right for everybody, while RAGE is good for revenge, but not much else.

[LWolf]

96. That says a lot for me.

Peace, compassion, and care for others feels right. It feels essential. And we sure are willing to work for it!

[KittyWampus]

40. Kucinich Supporters Have A Witness!

You guys and gals ROCK!

Dennis is sincere, I've no doubt about that. I see him more the advocate than the politician.

[MuseRider]

41. Exactly why I support him. n/t

[Darranar]

43. Thanks!

[Deja Q]

5. Flipside is fair play

Even my counselor noted that lots of patients lose jobs or get other jobs whose "alternate coverage" force them to go elsewhere.

I'll apply the same argument you're making, why allow a system which forces people to go elsewhere because of money be allowed to be allowed?

It doesn't matter. Everybody can't have what they want.

Let humanity blow itself up for all the fuck I care anymore. x(

[JasonBerry]

6. Yeah, Like Medicare and Social Security

Don't ya hate that socialism? His health plan means everyone paying in - just like Medicare and Social Security and EVERYBODY being insured. It takes the predators OUT of our health care system, as opposed to the other plans you mentioned which find ways to preserve medicine-for-profit.

Edit: for grammar

[Fixated]

12. .....

It forces government health care on us, which many people dislike.

[JasonBerry]

16. NO - it does not force "Government health care" on us....

This is simply not true. Is "government health care" forced on seniors through Medicare? The Kucinich plan addresses the FINANCING of health care - NOT the delivery of that care. BIG DIFFERENCE.

[Fixated]

44. ..

But (and I may be wrong here), is private health care eliminated? I haven't looked into his policy.

[wheresthemind]

82. its all right here...

http://www.kucinich.us/issues/issue_universalhealth.htm

[no name no slogan]

93. Think Canada, NOT the UK

The insurance part of the system is replaced by single-payer, the actual delivery of healthcare is left to individual doctors, clinics, hospitals etc.

All it does is eliminate the huge bureaucracy of many different "competing" insurers and replace them with one single-payer, nonprofit entity. This leads to less paperwork, greater efficiency and less cost overall-- in other words, more money for treatment and less for CEOs and paperwork.

The system DK advocates is similar to the one in Canada, not to the NHS system in Britain, where the hospitals and clinics are owned by the National Health Service. I actually survived the post-Thatcher NHS when I lived in the UK, and I would not wish that on ANYBODY.

[Nobody]

20. Those of us without any health care at all

would love to have health care forced on us.

And if you have a system that isn't geared to bloating the already bursting wallets of the execs, the funds allocated to managing it can be used to better effect.

And in case you were wondering, I'm temping. It's the only work I've been able to find and it doesn't come with benefits.

Guess us temps aren't worthy of being healthy.

[JasonBerry]

27. That is a shame!

It is a SHAMEFUL thing that our country is the only country in the industrialized world that doesn't see health care as a RIGHT and not a privilege.

I'm sorry, nobody, about your situation. It must be awful to know you are one illness away from losing it all. A disgrace is what it is.

I have private health insurance as I work for myself. We pay almost 600.00 a month for our health insurance - and that's with a $1000 deductible. Shameful.

[Nobody]

46. That's why I was cheering when Sen Dayton said

in front of the Senate that he wanted seniors to have the same quality of health care as the senators.

And then the Republicans began to show their true colors. They demanded to know why he wanted to cut their benefits when if fact Dayton was talking about enhancing what retired people get.

It never fails to amaze me that when we talk about making sure we all have enough, the Republicans are convinced that you're going to take it away from them.

News flash: Your health care coverage won't suffer just because I can finally afford to see a doctor once a year.

[roughsatori]

36. Nobody, your first sentence is a gem

"Those of us without any health insurance would love to have health care forced on us." I have insurance but have been in the boat you are speaking from. I have a sister who is suffering greatly from lime's disease but she has no insurance to pay, so she skips the treatment.....

[Nobody]

55. May your sister get some coverage soon

I hope skipping treatment won't make it worse in the long run.

[Fixated]

45. ......

Perhaps you missed the point. There are ways to assure health care without making it entirely government.

[Nobody]

51. Let's hear them

So far, the only successful health care plans that cover everyone have been government plans.

I don't consider the HMOs a success. Working people aren't covered at all, those who do have coverage have to jump through too many hoops. Do you remember the Allina incident from several years ago when a huge percentage of funds somehow found their way into the pockets fo the execs?

[Fixated]

53. .....

You can assure at least minimal health care through the federal government while allowing private companies to remain running.

[Loyal]

54. Don't be foolish

You could send every person without health insurance a voucher to buy private health insurance coverage. This would be a lot easier than overhauling the entire damned system, which is just stupid.

[Nobody]

59. Did I say anything about

overhauling the whole damn system? I mentioned what was and wasn't successful.

Who needs to overhaul? Phase out the old and phase in the new. It's less disruptive that way.

Assuming of course that there is something to phase in.

As for your vouchers, what would they cover?

[Darranar]

61. A voucher?

How much woud that cost? And if they couldn't aford it, what then?

[hippywife]

63. That would not

reduce the incentive the insurance companies have to deny coverage to retain their profit levels. That's only part of the problem.

They are bloated with overhead to the tune of some $40 million plus a year. That money could buy alot of care, not just coverage, for alot of people.

[MuseRider]

64. Maybe but you would still be stuck

with some MBA making your health care decisions based on how much of a cut they would have to take. I was a nurse back before the gov started the DRG's. It has gotten so bad that I won't let anyone I know stay in a hospital without someone else staying with them. This system is so broken. AND, those are the lucky few who do not have to go home the day of what used to be major surgery because they can afford to stay a day or two.

[Mairead]

72. Foolish? Handing over free money to the wealthy elites is what's foolish

Tell us what unique value insurance companies add to the healthcare process, why don't you?

[cosmicdot]

68. thank you!

"Those of us without any health care at all would love to have health care forced on us." - Nobody (who is somebody!)

[poskonig]

9. Lead post could have presented in a less flamelike manner.

That being said, the Kucinich campaign has much room for improvement. I find problems not much with Kucinich's ideas, but with Kucinich himself. Kucinich comes across like an ideologue, a person who knows it all already, and hence does not require dialogue on issues, only obedience. While this is nice to have in Congress, I would be a little uneasy having him in charge of the executive branch. If one of his policies passed and didn't work, Kucinich would "stay the course," even if the entire world fell apart because of his ideas. It would be a leftist version of the Bushit administration.

As a voter, I'm looking for something more flexibile and pragmatist, which puts me closer to people like Kerry and Dean.

[Goldmund]

11. I am a Kucinich supporter,

with Dean #2 on my list.

I just want to respond to the "how dare you make people upset?" posts.

Come on! What's so wrong with being upset? Let's not make this some kind of a freeper-like "pat each other on the back" board. He/she posted some absolutely valid thoughts on one of the candidates, in a clear-cut way, and that is a perfect starter for a discussion. What's the point of "ooh, you should have a softer touch" objections?

We all want Bush out of the office, and we should unite for that purpose, but we shouldn't become drones.

[MuseRider]

21. I was not advocating

that we be drones. DK and the Progressive people have been taking a beating on this board recently. I find myself getting very upset because it always comes out as a bash. That being said I am perfectly willing and anxious to discuss the pros and cons of any candidate but it helps to have a coherent discussion when people come to it without anger or defensiveness. Just take a look at the threads the last while and see if you do not find that people who support DK are a little on the defensive now. We are all, or mostly grownups, but still things could be more productive if framed in a different manner IMO.

[Loyal]

14. Why does everybody accuse me of b ashing Dennis?

I AM TRYING TO HAVE A POLICY DISCUSSION, NOT START AD HOMINEM ATTACKS. I DON'T HAVE ANY PROBLEMS WITH DENNIS, JUST HIS IDEAS. ;-) lmao.

[JohnKleeb]

18. The way you did it is what got people.

BTW if memory serves me Gore was once pro life, surely you dont have it out for Al Gore. I disagree with that flag vote but surely I can find problems with other candiates and their votes. On IWR, Dean I dont know if you support him or not but thats what he does as well.

[dsc]

52. Gore had been solidly pro choice for over a decade

by 2000. That is apples and oranges. Also Gore never voted, like
Dennis did on several occasions, to forbid adults from having abortions.

[JohnKleeb]

62. Thats true but Gore sought the party's nomination in the mid 80's

Every candiate has their flaws and I totally disagree with this part of his history, thankfully unlike many other so called pro lifers he was no hypocrite, because he wasnt cutting assistance like the GOP was. I disagreed with his past view.

[eileen_d]

25. Somehow, that doesn't come across

"Sorry Dennis, I don't care if you are catholic, that is no excuse to intrude on a woman's right to choose." Somehow I "mistook" this for an adhominem attack on Dennis. hmm...

I guess it's the puking smilies that convinced me that this was not an invitation to serious policy discussion. If you want to turn it into a serious policy discussion, however, by all means do so.

[cosmicdot]

32. what's the exact "policy issue" in your first paragraph?

First, I don't like how he criticizes the other candidates for voting yes on the IWR. He basically has this holier than thou attitude which I cannot stand, and it's ridiculous, too, because Kucinich had a 5 year anti-choice voting record up till last year. Yeah, he wanted to force women to bear children, that is REAL progressive. Sorry Dennis, I don't care if you are catholic, that is no excuse to intrude on a woman's right to choose. Oh, and your previous anti-medical marijuana stand is REAL progressive. So is your support of the flag burning amendment.

is it IWR, medical use of Marijuana, women's right to choose, etc.???

one can start a policy thread without mentioning any candidate or politician

"Healthcare" is a topic. Why I don't like Dennis Kucinich is not.

or try this

I support _____ because he/she wants this for healthcare for Americans, and that plan is this _________. I think this is the best way to go because ________.

[Darranar]

48. Because that's exactly what you're doing...

bashing him.

[Loyal]

50. Don't be so defensive about your buddy,

I'm critiquing his policy stands. It is not an ad hominem attack on him, and yes, I'm sorry to tell you, but Dennis' catholic faith IS relevant. Some people on here use his faith as an excuse for his anti-choice record. That's bull. I could say that because fundies believe that homosexuality is wrong, that we should therefore have no rights for gays. See the problem there, Darranar?

[Darranar]

57. Of course that's junk...

Religion doesn't matter a bit in a politician. If I see someone say that about Dennis, then I'll tell him he's wrong, but I've never seen it.

Bashing includes attacking a candidate's political beliefs. I don't think it's wrong, or bad, or evil, or immoral, or any of those things.

[Zynx]

15. I think Dennis' record as an executive speaks for itself.

When he was the boy mayor of Cleveland, he forced the city into the largest municipal bond default since the Great Depression.

I'm also a fairly centrist Democrat compared to your average Kucinich supporter. I do not support a department of peace nor do I oppose free trade in general. I simply do not agree with him enough to even consider voting for him. I would against Bush, but I would regret having to do it. He would not make a good chief executive and would destroy the Democratic party.

[Darranar]

28. You know why he did that to Cleveland?

To save thousands of dollars of the people's money. What he did was prevent a corporate takeover. The corporate complex in the city struck back.

[hippywife]

29. The banks that were in bed

with the private utility forced the non-renewal of the city's line of credit. It was such a bad decision on Dennis' part that they have commended him on saving them $200M and counting and have elected him to the U.S. House 4 times.

I think he's actually one of the few people in this race able to anticipate the future issues and ramifications of policy.

Obviously, the Clinton admin and the centrist Dems had no idea or didn't care what the long-term effects of NAFTA would be. Either way, centrist Dem politics hasn't been very good for anyone but those looking to line their own pockets at the expense of others. Sounds familiar, doesn't it?

[diamondsoul]

66. Uh, no. Kucinich did not do the "forcing" in Cleveland.

The bank and CEI tried to. Dennis did what he'd promised to do, and refused to sell. He made a vow to the people of Cleveland and they elected him on that basis. When push came to shove he did as he promised.

Rather funny that he was ASKED to come back to Cleveland when Muny Light expanded operations if his decision was such an aggregious case of poor leadership and decision-making, don't you think? He was elected to State legislature "Because he was right.". I think that counters your misrepresentation of who did the forcing in that situation.

Furthermore, if you favor retention of NAFTA and WTO agreements, then you must find it perfectly acceptable for corporate big-wigs to run roughshod over the poor people and small business. You oppose a Dept. of Peace, for what reason exactly? Have you read the bill that proposes its establishment? Do you have any idea what it's designed to do? If not then you can't very well oppose it can you?

Be a centrist, no problem there, but I hope you're making informed decisions about what you oppose and don't oppose in Kucinich's platform.

*on edit, corrected a mis-spelling

[Darranar]

17. LOL!

I have an even better idea! Keep profit in the equation, and make this whole thing extremely expensive and wasteful! we can make it a lot cheaper and more efficient with Kucinich's plan.

Anti-choice is better than pro-war. He never supported ending a woman's right to choose; he simply didn't want the government to endorse it. Loook up those bills. I disagree with him, but I;m not a NARAL activist.

Howard Dean is also against medical marijuana, you know.

The flag-burning part bothers me as well, but I'm not the ACLU. And he's the only one who voted against the PATRIOT Act.

You despise Socialists, don't you?

[hippywife]

19. Anyone who doesn't have a problem

with putting profit above someone's life are those that work for insurance companies or lobby for them. For-profit healthcare has become an abomination.

I heard someone ask why the other civilized, developed nations aren't rushing to imitate our healthcare system. Indeed, why would they? It's a barbaric system that feeds on those less able to defend themselves to ensure they make gigantic profits. You can't be human and support that kind of system.

If healthcare depends on having a job, then there are more than 3 million new uninsured in this country on the Bush watch. Corporations began shedding jobs as soon as the 2000 selection was over because they knew they would no longer be held accountable to an economy that keeps the middle class working.

Cobra benefits are an absolute joke and another example of for-profit games. If you want to have pre-existing conditions covered, you better have Cobra so there is no lapse in coverage. Have you seen the cost of Cobra? It's exhorbitant and there is no way to afford it when you don't have a job.

The only time the for-profit insurers don't jerk you around is when you don't get sick and need to use your coverage. Unless, of course you count the exhorbitant premiums and deductibles just in case you do. It's emotional blackmail...nothing more, nothing less.

[roughsatori]

33. Thanks HippyWife, great response

It shocks me when I hear Insurance Company Lobbyist's points being posted here. Thanks for your reply.

[cosmicdot]

47. "seen the cost of Cobra" - been there

couldn't afford it ... barely remember ... it was around $400 a month ... and, that's only for a period of time ... even if one is rich and could afford to pay such an amount ...

the COBRA 'intent' is nice, i.e, for once-employer provided medical insurance to have 'portability' - but, it ends there when the COBRA notice arrives and the monthly premium becomes known .... and, it's cost-prohibitive, especially if one finds themselves disabled and unable to work/earn income ... even if one gets accepted into Social Security Disability Income (SSDI) ... Medicare doesn't 'kick in' until 30 months later (I'm saying 30 months because there is 24 month waiting period to get into Medicare; and, I believe the 24 month period commences after 6 months into SSDI -- 24-30) ... when I hear politicians talk about helping Medicare patients with prescription needs (not covered by Medicare as we know -- no dental -- no vision care -- not all doctors are in the Medicare program), they rarely include those other than "Seniors" in their dialogue ... lots of people are on Medicare under the age of 65.

[hippywife]

67. That' the other aspect

Dennis' plan would also provide dental, vision, mental health, and drug treatment. Very few employers elect that kind of all inclusive policy to offer their employees.

The number of mentally ill on our streets and in our jails would have the assistance they need, that some of them had at one time.

It takes care of so many other social problems than what is visible on the surface.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

88. AND if you develop a new condition while on your 18 months

of way over-priced COBRA, no other insurer will touch you, because you will then be tagged as someone who actually NEEDS health insurance, exactly the type of customer that the ins. companies do NOT want.

[no name no slogan]

94. Been there with COBRA

After I left a job in 1999 and became self-employed, I hopped on the COBRA bus. After that ran I out, I could have been screwed, because I have a pre-existing condition and have prescription costs of approx. $300/mo, w/o coverage.

Thankfully, MN is civilized and has a program that is the "insurer of last resort" for folks who have been denied coverage anyplace else. It is adminstered by BCBS, but it's still far from "affordable" to many people. I was paying around $200/mo for little more than major medical, catastrophic, and some prescription coverage, but my drugs were still around $100/mo.

The healthcare system in this country works great for those who have top-quality coverage, and who don't have to rely on their HMO to approve/disapprove their benefits. For the rest of us, it's a huge mess that works only for the owners at the detriment of the patients AND the caregivers.

SINGLE-PAYER UNIVERSAL COVERAGE NOW

[lcordero]

23. I hope that he STEPS UP the criticism on the Bushler* enablers

As far as the flag burning amendment goes, I prefer that somebody give me a flimsy excuse about getting put in jail for something than getting put in jail for nothing indefinitely...which the Patriot Act does.

As far as healthcare goes, I want every single CEO type that produces something in between jack and shit to be stopped totally from getting into my pocket. I do not want to pay $350 a month for my own healthcare alone and I do not want to pay over $1000 a month for myself and my family. Private Insurers and Doctors are the new snake oil salesmen and confidence artists of the 21st century. I already know that should something happen to me out in the street, I will die at the very spot rather than have a Doctor or hospital cash in on me or what ever benefits that I might get from the VA. Private Insurers and Doctors can eat shit.

On edit: Bernie Sanders RULES!!!:P

[RichM]

24. What I DON'T like about your criticisms -

Your attack on the health plan demonstrates no understanding of the big picture. You wouldn't NEED a private insurer like BCBS if there was single-payer universal health insurance - like what has been offered for decades already by every other developed nation in the world.

Furthermore, your snide crack about "socialist" is an example of red-baiting, an attitude on an intellectual par with Jew-baiting & gay-baiting.

It is likely that someone like you would have trouble appreciating Kucinich. He doesn't appeal that much to know-nothings.

[Loyal]

30. It's funny that you call me a no-nothing,

while you blindly support Kucinich. Yes, I know the "virtues" of a single payer system, but that doesn't change the fact that you are pushing everyone into that system, including people who MAY, IN FACT, BE HAPPY WITH THEIR CURRENT HEALTH CARE PLAN. You can't bullshit your way out of that one, RichM.

[cosmicdot]

37. may it be assumed that you buy your own medical insurance?

[Loyal]

49. cosmic

It's irrelevant. Even if I do get it from my employer it doesn't change the fact that I get better coverage under this than I would under a single payer system. A lot less wait lines, too...

[cosmicdot]

65. so, you're not having to live without insurance nor pay into a policy?

I think it's relevant ... you're lucky. What will you do if you find yourself without health coverage? for yourself or for a family to support?

when you call a doctor's office ... the first thing they want to know is 'do you have insurance' and, if yes, 'with whom' ... if yes, that doctor may not cater to that insurance ... if no ... well, it becomes interesting


Since we haven't developed the American plan, it's not fair to prejudge what that system can be ... I purposedly used "can be" ... because we can make it the best system on Earth ... but, that will take all of us working together for the common good ... but, we can do it.

Healthcare is a human right imo ...

having become disabled at age 47 ... I've seen the horrors of not having medical insurance ... I value my experience so that I can speak from a position which some may never see ever ... or not until they get much older.

I don't think Big Pharm want's us to be well ... we need a system to promote wellness and preventive medicine.

If you are familiar with Jim Hightower's book "nothing in the middle of the road but yellow stripes and dead armadillos", he begins the book asking how we got into the current corporate-controlled medical nightmare. When did we vote to make this the way it is? He's absolutely correct.

Corporations love invasion of privacy; and, as long as they control your medical records, we haven't got much privacy.

I feel left out when someone healthy and working gets the same meds as me paying $10-$15 per Rx under their employer-paid benefits ... hop in their Jag or BMW, and cruise on down the road when I pay $300 a month out of pocket and don't have a car. So, I worked for 25 years ... that's how the cookie crumbles, right?

When I became disabled, I had to hire a lawyer and spend almost 3 years proving I had been discriminated against and had my ERISA rights violated ... and, even though I won, and was restored into the company's Long Term Disability program ... I'm still tied to them and some unknown administrators following some policy which they can change at a whim without care; and, administrators who may have as a work goal to "save money" at my expense ... I have to continue paying to see doctors and buy medication (yes, it helps, but that's not the point) ... the corporate system forces me to have legal pusher ... to buy into Big Pharm and Big Med ... best believe they are out to get you (me) ... so, my lawyers said I won the out of court settlement ... but, who really won? The employer negotiates to put all of the burden on the insurance companies they have policies with ... violate Fed laws, and get away with it ... put gag clauses into Settlement Agreements ... it's ridiculous ... and, many of our fellow citizens go through this healthcare all the time ...

and, fearless bunnypants talks about frivolous lawsuits

what a joke

and, dental ... my gosh ... I need $1000s of work

does your corporate policy put an annual maximum on dental expenses or is it unlimited?

can you adopt me as a dependent???? :)

[Mairead]

74. "I get better coverage under this than I would under single payer"

So, are you Harry or Louise?

Since Dennis's plan would cover ALL medically-necessary treatments, the only way your employer's plan could possibly be better is if it covers medically-UNnecessary treatment. And I know it doesn't, because no plan does.

So who are you trying to kid, us or yourself?

[Loyal]

78. I'm not trying to kid anyone,

Dennis's plan would not be as good because it requires a 7.7% payroll tax on employers, and the cost would most likely be passed onto employees in the form of pay cuts.

[hippywife]

84. But you overlook

the fact that they would no longer be paying the premiums to the insurance companies. I have a feeling the 7.7% would be a whole lot less than the exhorbitant and every rising premiums are costing them.

[Loyal]

99. WHAT ABOUT THE COMPANIES

THAT DON'T OFFER HEALTH INSURANCE?

[snoochie]

86. You really think 7.7 percent is more than they're paying now?

Where are you getting your information?

[Mairead]

97. I believe Dennis's office has calculated that employers pay > 8% now

So the 7.7% would actually be a reduction, on average. It's the profit, you see. The profit and redundant overhead inflates the bill by 25-35%. Medicare overhead is either 8% or 3%, I can't recall which, but even a reduction from 25% to 8% is an enormous amount of money when the healthcare industry is billing $1.5T per year, as it does today.

(And I apologise for my suspicions; I thought you were trying to take the micky, not that you were operating on incomplete information)

[hippywife]

39. Kucinich's supporters

are the far from blindly following. I have yet to meet one that couldn't intelligently discuss the issues he stands for and give reasons why. And also explain why they appeal to them.

[JasonBerry]

56. More than any other candidate's supporters

More than any other candidate's supporters, we have a hard time holding together because we all DO THINK on our own. You never know what a K supporter is going to think because we do not all think alike! We do not even all follow DK and what he says blindly! Call us what you wish, but please, I agree with the post above - don't say we don't think. Because we all think and come from different angles on different issues - you just can't put us in a box.

[MuseRider]

31. Health care

Little story. My husband retired last year. He has a small heart ailment, nothing terrible and it has not progressed for 20 years. I have Rheumatoid Athritis, not terribly aggressive, cheapest meds have taken care of it, has not worsened in 15 years. We can not afford health care insurance. The ending??? My husband was a doctor. He made quite a good living. WE CAN'T AFFORD INSURANCE with two relatively small conditions. Thankfully we are not unable to pay for the routine maintenence. I feel so bad for those who can't.

[diamondsoul]

58. Ok folks, Loyal is ok...for a non-Kucinich supporter.

:evilgrin: Kidding, really. To the starter post, yes, Loyal it was a little insulting in language, but even us Kucinich supporters have been getting a little less civil at times, so I can deal.

"What if I like my health insurance? I happen to like my blue cross blue shield, and I DON'T want to give it up, Dennis. Why can't you just go with Dean or Kerry's plan which doesn't force us all into a govt health system?"

Well, because healthcare for private profit is exactly what is killing people right now. Is it ok with you for the elderly to be unable to afford prescriptions, for poor families to not be able to get their children proper healthcare, for people to literally be turned away from hospitals and clinics, JUST so you can keep your private insurance? Come on, Loyal, you're not that heartless.

You can still have BCBS as a supplemental insurance and you still have the same freedom to select your physician as you'd have now, except it wouldn't cost you a thing out of pocket but the supplemental premium. What, pray tell could you possibly have to complain about when you're being offered FREE coverage in ADDITION to your BCBS?! Moreover, I also have BCBS coverage, and I DON'T like it one bit! I spend a fortune on eyeglasses and optical care every year because my insurance doesn't cover it at all! Three of us in the family ALL need prescription lenses, and we have no insurance coverage for it.

On the anti-choice record, you neglect to take into account that he also voted in favor of things such as contraceptive coverage and other means of making abortion less widely needed. I didn't agree with his anti-abortion votes either, but jeez, sometimes it takes people a while to open their minds to other people's situations.

[Desertrose]

73. Hmmm...lets see here....

Loyal, you don't like DK....so the way he speaks annoys you...no biggie...we are all entitled to our own opinion....

.....you feel he's holier than thou ...I see it as a passion for what he believes in.....I think forcing women to bear children is a bit strong...have you read the bills he voted on? But again...he has rethought the idea and now sees that women need to have a choice on their own body.

(Hmmm...forced childbearing and forced medicare....dealing with some control issues here I wonder?)

Flag burning....not exactly right...more about desecration...when I was growing up it was illegal....seems to me that if you have any degree of intelligence, you can find other ways to protest besides desecrating the flag. IMO the flag stands for all of us people, not necessarily the gov't- but again...my opinion.....

Health insurance...sounds like you have yours so the hell with anyone else....well I have none..if I could afford it, I would buy it....so I guess you're saying tough sh*t for me. I don't see any other candidates plan taking the big insurance & pharmacorps out of the mix- only Dennis. That bothers me cause I see how the private companies make mega bucks off the rest of us. My Dad & grandfather were pharmacists and I KNOW how much the drug co's make off people...it is obscene.

Somehow your use of the word "socialist" just doesn't scare me as much as the repub talking points in your post....

I hope you were expecting to have all the DK supporters reply to your charming post...we sure wouldn't want to disappoint you....

Peace,
DR

[hippywife]

77. And lets not forget that

if a woman living in poverty can afford to have and care for her children that gives her yet more choice. As does the ability to receive birth control.

[Thomas Jefferson]

75. Dennis's plan is the one the patient groups and doctors say will work

His plan is the one that most makes sense to those who have to live with the consequences.

[hippywife]

76. That's the way it's looking, TJ!

And welcome to DU!! :)

[cosmicdot]

79. TJ = where have you been???

I quote you all the time (quote source bookmarked)

former, but born and bred Virginian

[JasonBerry]

81. TOM!

Welcome to DU, Tom! We've been arguing for years with the Freepers about separation of Church and State. Could you please go here:
www.freerepublic.com
and set those right wing fruitcakes straight? Of course, I should warn you though, you'll be called unpatriotic. WELCOME BACK. TOM! This flag's FOR YOU!!!!

[Selwynn]

80. No I don't see those as valid concerns at all (you asked)

[Lydia Leftcoast]

87. I don't know how old you are, Loyal

But if you're self-employed and over 50, Blue Cross absolutely sucks. You pay between $250-300 a month--and that's with a $1000 deductible-- and after that, you still pay 20% of all your medical expenses. So, let's see, you pay $4000-4600 out of pocket before you get any benefits at all, and a self-employed person over 50 who happens to be healthy, as I am, gets no break on rates. So essentially, I pay $3000 a year for nothing--except gambling that I don't have any major medical expenses.

If you're in your twenties or thirties and under an employer's health plan, you're probably happy, but just wait a couple of decades. You'll be begging for a Canadian-style plan.

Now, on the topic of the Iraq vote, you will remember that Paul Wellstone was the only Senator up for reelection who voted against the Iraq resolution. He was told that it would ruin his chances for reelection, and yet, his standings in the polls went UP after he voted "no." It was widely believed that Kerry and the others who voted "yes" were worried more about their reelection chances than about the moral questions involved.

You have to ask how far a given politician would go to follow what he thinks is the popular trend, even if it's against his personal values.

[snoochie]

91. Good points Lydia...

And you remind me of yet another reason to respect and admire Dennis... he was also up for re-election in 2002, yet still made his principled stands on IWR and the Patriot Act.

[leesa]

89. So sad. It's no wonder our country is so regressive

[Tinoire]

90. I too would be curious to know how old and how financially stable you are

n/t

[stlsaxman]

92. "He's ugly and his mother dresses him funny"- but seriously folks...

Dennis is good. I shook his hand in DC at the anti-war rally. Told him thanks
for speaking out against Operation Iraqi Liberation (OIL).

[LWolf]

98. Is this the sort of response/discussion you were looking for?

First, I don't like how he criticizes the other candidates for voting yes on the IWR.

Supporters of candidates who voted yes would naturally feel defensive about that vote, and wouldn't like having it brought up. I don't know who you support, if anyone; I haven't paid attention. But I will say this: KEEP TELLING IT LIKE IT IS, DENNIS. How does * get away with the crap he gets away with? Not enough people in congress taking the fight to him. Not enough people speaking out with their voices and votes. Dennis rocks. It's the job of the primary dem candidate to separate himself from the pack and highlight what makes him different from the other choices.

The choice issue has been chewed, digested, and expelled ad-infinitum here at DU and elsewhere. For folks who've made up their mind to attack, who don't really want to know anything about Dennis, and who just tire of hearing all the great things he says and does, and that people think about him, it makes a soundbite they can use. For those who truly feel uncomfortable with the issue, I would say: Talk to Dennis about it yourself. He won't hesitate to discuss it with you. And look at his record. When he says he supports something, he does so with his voice and his vote. You should probably be cheering him on, glad to have him on the side of choice. We know that he publicly changed his position more than a year before he was drafted to run for president. It's not a campaign issue, exept as a misdirection by his opponents. We know that he has backed it up with his votes and his speeches, from the House floor and elsewhere, since then. And we know that he is the only candidate who has said Roe v Wade would be a litmus test for any judicial appointees. You aren't going to get any better support for choice than that.

Healthcare for all...of course, if you have insurance, you don't have to be concerned about the millions of Americans that have no access to health care. The difference here is that we don't believe that health care is a privelege; we believe it is a right. And our candidate is working to ensure that. We don't think you should get a higher quality health care if you can afford to pay more $$. And we are sick and tired of HMO's telling us what doctor we can see, what services we are allowed, etc. My son, who gets full coverage from his employer, waited 2 years for a hernia surgery. Two full years. And then they'd only do one,not both, hernias. Why? Argument between the gp and the specialist over whether the hernias actually existed. No 2nd opinion available; no other specialist approved by the HMO. My son supports medicare for all. The great thing is that we can do it for less money than we are currently spending. I like the idea of choosing my own doctor, discussing options for treatment, and making a decision with a doctor I'm comfortable with. And getting other opinions outside an HMO manager's control. I also am looking forward to the day when my employer doesn't need to use the excuse of ballooning health insurance costs to cut benefits and pay.

You don't have to like Dennis' take on these issues; you are certainly free to have, and to express, your own opinion. I have a question for you though. Is it Dennis that you don't like, or these issues? Your thread title infers that it is the man, not the issues. Do you not "like" him or the issues because you see him as a threat to your own candidate in some way, or would you be saying the same thing if he were running against Bush?