How can we win over ex-Naderites AND "Nascar dads" without conflict?

[mot78]

I was thinking...we need people from our base to turn out, the progressives who have stayed home in recent years or voted for Nader. Yet we also need "Nascar dads" and Blue Dog Dems in order to be competitive in the South. How can we get both groups on our side next year without having a conflict?


ON EDIT: When I mean "Naderites" I mean people who voted for Nader, or who agree with him on most issue. Not necessarily actual Greens.

[Dob Bole]

1. Going to be Dem fundie for a second....

We're not going to reach out to the Naderites. They should come to us, unless they want Bush again. Might sound harsh, but I think that's how the cards fall at this point. If Al Gore had become president, things might be different and there might be Greens in the administration. But Bush is the one sitting in the white house.

[Padraig18]

4. I wasn't aware Naderites *were* Democrats. n/t

[Dob Bole]

10. ?

Didn't say they were Dems. Must be some miscommunication somewhere.

[bahrbearian]

5. Naderites are" US", just not Clintonites

[TennesseeWalker]

27. I have to agree with Dob Bole and the Sweet Tea Democrats.

Regardless of how you feel, their are a lot of conservative democrats and moderate republicans who THINK they are "true conservatives" that will vote against Bush IF an acceptable nominee can be found that won't push the nation too far to the left.

I know a lot of people here don't want to think that, but it's true. More moderate to conservative people VOTE more often than the leftist base. It seems to be that way EVERY election.

Most people down here and in the midwest vote R because of gun control and abortion. It's a fact. "Wedge issues". They don't particularly like war and corporate control over their lives, but are basically old-fashioned, stuck in the 50's type folks (some, anyway.....a bunch are also greedy and concerned only with the stock market and their pocketbooks).

[lcordero]

2. something the DLC have been avoiding because it would

piss off their corporate contributors...POCKETBOOK ISSUES!!!

[mdvet]

3. aint gonna happen

In order to win the Nascar Dad vote, you are gonna have to alienate the parties left wing, this would cause a hell of a rift.

[mot78]

6. Graham was able to get their support

And he's anti-war.

[bahrbearian]

7. What is the difference between "Blue Dog Dem's "

and yellow Dog Dem's ?? Seriously I don't know.

[lcordero]

12. blue dog's are fiscally conservative dems and

yellow dog dems are dems that vote for dems even a yellow dog is on the dem ticket...literally

[KG]

8. the dems don't need 'nascar dads'.

they don't need to court that incredible shrinking demographic.

the dems future lies in getting out the vote of (then truly representing them) its base of labor, minorities, women, and immigrants, and then growing demographics - the children of asian and latino immigrants.

[Redneck Socialist]

24. NASCAR is labor

at least in terms of economic status.

[TennesseeWalker]

35. You, sir, are ABSOLUTELY right.

Nascar is LABOR. They should be voting Democratic, but vote R. Gun control, abortion, etc. are the wedge issues. They hurt from Bush's policies, though. They need social security, welfare, insurance.....all Democratic issues. Mostly scared white people (and they're MY people, people I work and live around all day, at least. Basically good folks, if you can reach them.)

[TennesseeWalker]

38. One thing more. These people respond to the IMAGE Bush projects.

They really know little of his policies, and his image is that of a guy sticking up for the white guy, or at least guys who believe what the white guy is supposed to believe. God, guns, country, apple pie, Chevrolet, manliness, etc. His wife is submissive and not threatening, and the natural order is what they said it was in the 50s.

Tough to fight. But it can be beaten.

[cindyw]

47. Many are dems in nature but the image Bush projects attracts them.

These are the same kind of people who voted for Arnold here. They have this idea this that Dems are free-lovin' hippie wimps. Why did some of them vote for Clinton (even if they won't admit it)? Clinton was a man's man. Very alpha male.

Here's how you win the Nascar dads.

1. Don't show up as a fan to a Nascar race. They will boo you and think you are pandering. They know you don't watch racing and they will not accept you there. Graham's sponsorship was accepted because it gave a ride to a good driver and the car won.

2. Get in a car and race. These people respond to sheer guts. Seeing a candidate get in a car and risk his life will change their view of Dems forever. (do we have a daredevil candidate?)

3. Do not appeal to the worst in the bunch to win them over. Don't waive a gun around and say you are for "families". The left will hate you for it and then the whole idea was worthless.

4. Appeal to their lives. Their children's health, their loss of jobs, their parents care.

[zeemike]

50. It sounds like a set up to me

Where did the idea come form that the key to the next election is the NASCar dads?
I think that the RNC is trying to make us focus on one ting so they can make us look foolish. I can just see the Democratic candidate sitting in a race car with a helmet on and how the press would roast him for it.
Remember what they did to Ducacus with him sitting in a tank? They had convinced him that the way to win is to be a military man, and the media used it to ridicule.

[cindyw]

52. Sure if the candidate is a dork

Obviously some of them can't do it, but a couple could. I also wasn't suggesting they show up at a Winston cup race. Start with a small local race where people may or may not recognize you. At least one of the candidates quietly gets involved in sport activities. If you read what I'm saying you will also note that I am not advocating an entourage and camera to accompany the candidate.

Also, NASCAR dads is a misleading title. There are many Democrats in this crowd. I also said that we should not pander to the Repubs in this crowd to win them over. Appeal the democrat in them. I grew up in racing and the group is not a lost cause. There are reasonable people in there, lost in a sea of repub propaganda. NASCAR represents the whole all American, flag waving, military scene. Ignoring them is failing to "take back our flag" for Americans instead of a party.

[jiacinto]

31. You need more than the base to win

But apparently too many DUers fail to grasp that 40% of the elctorate is not enough to win a race.

[ulysses]

9. you don't without conflict.

Wecome to the Big Tent.

[leftyandproud]

11. I know!!

Stop insulting their intelligence and talking down to them.

As long as we have a good chunk of folks on the left who refer to Nascar fans as "AMurikkkans"--insulting people with flags on their cars....basically calling them jingoistic racist idiots...as long as this stereotype is popular on the left, this segment of the population (a BIG one) will continue to ignore us.

As for the Naderites...End the name calling and hatred...engage them in discussion and find a compromise we both can live with (like puling the democrats back TO THE LEFT!)

[mdvet]

14. good point

My wife sometimes browses this site and calling her an idiot is hardly gonna inspire her to vote democrat.

[mgc1961]

19. I'm with lefty...

...in so much as the Democratic Party needs to be more than just "Republican lite." I'm proud to say I voted Green in the last two Presidential elections. Why? It's quite simple. They need to move left. Be true environmentalists. Stop sleeping with the big-money corporate and private donors like our current loser of a President does. I would have gladly voted for Mr. Gore had he given me reason to believe he was the man to do it. But he didn't and he had 8 years to convince me otherwise. Excuse me, much more than that. I've been living in TN for some time. Used to occasionally speak to Mr. Gore at the airport before his VP days. Always a last minute arrival.
On a side note, I completely reject the notion that I or Mr. Nader put Shrub in the White House. (For more info see the epilogue of "Stupid White Men.") I can't tell you how angry I was when Democrats blamed Mr. Nader for their/our loss (I use the term loss loosely). I'm told even now, even by Repukes, that my vote is wasted if I don't vote Dem or Rep. Wasted!? I voted for the best candidate, period. I didn't vote for the lesser of two evils which many people seem to do and I can't tell you how empowering it felt the first time I voted outside the oligarchy that currently runs this country...ummmm sorry. I'll go have a beer now and calm down. Cheers!

:beer:

[ElsewheresDaughter]

13. run a fast ass winning hydrogen cell car in the Indy 500 with DNC ...

sponsership........Demopcratic Nascar painted all over it?

[Rashind]

15. Kucinich would do it.

Peace and the environment for the naderites, outstanding labor record and education policy for nascar dads.

Education policy, meaning post-secondary education, is more important to these guys than you think. Ask any "nascar dad" if he wants his son to work in the same factory he does when he gradutates from high school.

[imhotep]

16. people who watch NASCAR

should not be allowed to vote for the same reason people under 18 are not allowed.

[mdvet]

17. nascar vote

and pray tell why shouldnt they be allowed to vote, personally i dont get it, but i have many friends who love it.

[Rashind]

18. And that reason would be...?

Oh, yes. Making a judgement about someone's intellectual/political capacities based on an almost entirely irrelevant criteria. Age in the one case, choice of entertainment programming in the other. Good call.

[soup]

20. ?

so my husband (D)
and two sons who are eligible to vote (D) & (D)
should not be allowed to vote because of an interest in cars that go fast?

What is a 'NASCAR dad', anyway?

[ShaneGR]

26. I watch Nascar, I like racing

What the hell is wrong with that?

[DemVet]

29. What a wonderful elitest attitude.

Are you going to want to exclude others from voting as well?

[0rganism]

21. Don't worry about the (ex?)Naderites, just get the NASCAR dads

There are more NASCAR dads, and their votes count double if they voted for bush* last time.

Most of the Nader voters will support ABB this time around, and the ones that don't aren't worth the Democratic party's trouble.

[library_max]

22. We've got to pick our issues

We need to emphasize issues and programs that meet three criteria:

1) Policy fights we can win
2) That provide real and easily-appreciated benefits to real people
3) Who are not exclusively people who already vote Democrat, like for example environmentalists.

We've got health care, education, treatment of veterans, bringing home American servicepeople, job security, social security, and a whole laundry list of issues to work out positions from. We've got to keep in mind our real base: working people, minorities, the elderly, and nontraditional families.

Once we've got our issues, we need to fight like hell for them, without stint and without apology. And we can hope that the left gets caught up in the passion and/or the prospect of real accomplishment, so much that they let the rest of the laundry-list stay on hold, at least for a while.

But we can't bow to the left on every issue indiscriminately. We need to work with our voting base, and hopefully our activist base will have the good sense to work with us.

[Jason600]

23. independents

Being an independent, I can say why I have not joined either party, which seems to be the same for others that I know. Understand, I in no way suggest that I speak for anyone else. There are a slew of kids, (20's) who have flat out joined the Republican party because in their own words, the Dem's dont care about them and if they dont hold a majority of the same left views, then f*** you. While I dont share this view, I have experienced it such as the instant you disagree, your looked down on as a lesser. Not even a civilized debate or an attempt at common ground. It's even happened here, to which I started to come to find answers on my own. In a lot of ways, its not the Republicans winning over the people, its the Dem's pushing them away. If it appears that I'm being anti-Dem, I'm sorry because I truly am not. If I wasn't interested, I wouldnt be spending time here. I figured, I'll go strait to the source to find out the truth, and to be honest, one of the first responses I got was an insult because I MIGHT lean more to the right on one issue, but needed more info. If this makes people mad because not argeeing on everything, or because critisism cant be tolerated, than maybe I have found my answers, I just hope not.

[ShaneGR]

25. We can't, SCREW the Greens

If they haven't figured out the problems facing our nation by now, they never, ever, will.

[Rashind]

33. Screw the greens, eh?

Who is green? In Ithaca, where I am currently, there are a lot of greens of all ages and backgrounds. In Southeast Indiana, where I am from originally, greens are overwhelmingly college students and recent high school grads. Much as I love Ithaca, I can't help but think that Indiana is a better indicator of the national trend.

So, young people are going green. And you say screw 'em? Where do you think the democratic party is going to be in ten years if there's no attempt to reach out to the young voters?

Forget party loyalty, we want change. And we'll vote for whoever offers it. If you can give us a nominee that we have faith in, you'll get our votes. If not, we'll take our votes elsewhere.

[ShaneGR]

36. Yeah, screw em

Where I'm from, Ohio, you'd be hardpressed to find 20 people who are Green Party members. On the other hand, you're likely to find a couple million Nascar (and other racing sports fans). In fact, a lot of labor people who work in the auto industry, and are also Democrats, enjoy NASCAR.

So I'll repeat what I said, screw the Greens. You can deal with them up there.

[Rashind]

39. If you ignore the greens..

You're also ignoring a lot of people who vote dem anyway out of fear. Move too far to the center, and the democratic party's entire left wing is going to... well, turn green and fall off. :nopity:

[ShaneGR]

40. I will GLADLY ignore them

Like I said, screw the Greens. What has the Green Party done for me in Ohio? Is there even a Green Party here? I don't think so. Has a Green ever been elected to ANY position in Ohio government? No. Do the Greens have any representatives in congress? No. So what purpose does worrying about the Green Party serve me? None.

Zero. Zilch. Nada.

And why exactly would I want to listen to anything from a party who's leader, Ralph Nader, admitted that the goal of the Green Party was to destroy the Democratic Party.

And what platform does the Green Party have? What public policy have they instituted?

[Rashind]

41. Way to ignore my comment.

What about the dems who like the green platform? Give them Liebermans and Clarks and see what happens.

[ShaneGR]

42. LOL, earth to you, I like Clark and he is very progressive

I don't like Lieberman though. We give them Clark, and we get rid of Bush. I'll take that trade 1000000000 times in a row.

[TennesseeWalker]

45. You'd make a great horse trader.

I do believe that giving them Clark will seal the deal. And I believe Clark will be good for the country. He'll take more of the people who OUGHT to vote Democrat with him. And the Democratic Party can take over.

Then, we need to break up BOTH parties into about 5 or 6 smaller ones. Ideas would be better represented, and things couldn't get THIS far out of hand, ever again. No one party should be so powerful.

[DemVet]

28. I like NASCAR...

I'm a Democrat and find this highly insulting. If you want to exclude "NASCAR dads", you will be negating one of the largest demographics in the country. The person who said this was a shrinking demographic is very mistaken. NASCAR is the #1 spectator sport in the nation right now and IS STILL GROWING. Insulting NASCAR fans won't get us anything except maybe a load of disappointment on election night if we continue with the elitest attitude. STOP IT. :-(

[genius]

30. The only candidate who will do that is Kucinich.

There are three candidates the Greens will not vote for. The main one they DON'T want is Dean. They think Dean's even worse than Lieberman and I would have to agree. Clark will have some problems here because of Kosovo. He's got a much better shot than Dean though.

[quaker bill]

43. Oh well

They are not getting Kucinich. I lived for ten years with the NASCAR dad set in my family. The boys would go out back and rebuild a hot rod for entertainment after Thanksgivin' suppah. I'd bet she'd git along real good if we slap a little nitrous on 'er. Yup.

They ain't votin' fer no dad gum vegan liberal from north o the Mason-Dixon line. (Guaran-damn-teed if y'all know what om say'n son)

[jiacinto]

32. You can't

nt

[Iverson]

34. first rule: do on harm

Eschewing needless insult would be a good place for DUers to start.

It'll never happen, though. Not enough people are willing to connect politics to actual ideas. We live in an age that has abandoned reason.

[Redneck Socialist]

37. Without conflict?

We can't. With compromise we can.

The "Naderites" abandoned us because, in their view there is no real difference between the pubs and Dems and many of them still feel that way. In some ways I sympathize. After the debacle in 2000 I was ready to abandon the Democratic party because I was (still am) disgusted by how the party folded like a wet paper bag and offered no opposition to the criminal bush regime. I say this as someone whose paychecks use to come from the Democratic Party. I am recovering, but the green critique of the party that says we are too solicitous of corporate interests is largely correct. As a party we can correct this and woo back the naderites by being stronger on environmental issues, support labor and fight the corporations.

The biggest issue that kills us with the nascar crowd is gun control. When we get rid of the image that we want to take everyones guns away many of those voters will come home. On almost every issue except guns those voters are (should be) Democratic.

These two positions are not inconsistant. The more we fight for individual liberties, the more we stick up for the "little guy" the broader our base becomes. The only way the party will grow it by expanding our appeal in both directions. I can be done and it must be done.

[Zynx]

44. Winning NASCAR dads is far more important than winning Naderites.

'Nuff said.

[TacticalPeek]

46. Wildlife conservation? Wetlands, ducks?

:)

[Rashind]

48. Ducks are sweet! n/t

[Classical_Liberal]

49. I don't believe in the conflict so I have no answer

for a problem that is nonexistent. The DLC manufactured the Nascar dads to stand in for the real conflict between the progressives and their corporate contributers. The only nascar dad I know would like national health insurance, and stronger unions.

[robbedvoter]

51. Get them in the unemployment lines. These marketing categories

"NASCAR dads". Soccer moms" - are quite irrelevant in today's economy. I saw a Con article missing Clinton's economy.
War lies, economy - Nascar who?