What does a liberal nowadays believe?

[Sapphocrat]

This isn't my question, but one put to my most-evil alter ago, doublethink.

I've been giving the question considerable thought, and, naturally, the best answer I can offer is that I can only explain what I believe, as the "liberal" faction of American is hardly definable.

Of course, there are the stock answers -- liberals generally believe in a fair shake for everyone, social equality, honesty in government, yada yada yada -- but those answers are neither specific, nor good enough.

And no single person would be able to cover all bases accurately, or fairly.

Thus, I am turning to you, DUers. I would very much appreciate it if you could take a moment and post your idea of "what a liberal believes" here.

What I'll do, after leaving this post up for a day or so, is compile (and contrast) your responses and post them in doublethink for the benefit of the fellow who asked this question.

I know nothing about this fellow -- but my gut tells me he is either a RWer or a true undecided, and he's giving me (and us) a great opportunity to explain ourselves as we want to be heard.

And I would like opposing views expressed here (just PLEASE DO NOT hijack this thread, start a flame war, or get this thread locked!), so the guy can see that we're not all cut from the same cloth -- yet our lesser differences ultimately do not detract from our shared goals (and, speaking of which, what do you think our shared goals really are?).

I'll give you some areas to kick-start your thinking (but feel free to go off on your own tangent): abortion, AIDS, crime/death penalty, defense, drugs, education, energy, the environment, foreign policy, free trade/globalization, gun control, healthcare, immigration, LGBT rights, marriage equality, religious freedom, Social Security, taxes, wages/unions/price controls, welfare...

I'm not asking you to comment on all of these issues -- they're just fodder for the thought-mill. Don't think too hard about it (I want your first reactions), and don't spend a lot of time composing your thoughts.

I'd really like it if you would form your reponse by beginning with the phrase "This liberal believes..."

Thanks, kids -- I really appreciate your help and insight. I think I see an opportunity to set somebody "straight" about liberalism, and I believe your input is exactly what's needed.

Muchas gracias!

S.

P.S. If this starts to sink like a rock, couldja keep it kicked overnight and through Monday? Thx!

[DemocratSinceBirth]

1. How About The Maximum Amount Of Personal Autonomy

consistent with order, equity, and social justice...

[info being]

25. Well said

I'll go along with that.

[Northwind]

2. Ahem:

liberal
adj 1: showing or characterized by broad-mindedness; "a broad
political stance"; "generous and broad sympathies"; "a
liberal newspaper"; "tolerant of his opponent's
opinions"
2: having political or social views favoring reform and
progress
3: tolerant of change; not bound by authoritarianism,
orthodoxy, or tradition

There are as many liberal beliefs as there are liberals. Liberal is not a term for what you believe, it is a term for why you believe it.

[denverbill]

15. I'd definitely ditto that.

Liberalism has come to be known for embracing certain positions, such as pro-abortion, anti-death penalty, pro-welfare, anti-war.

But it really isn't fair to attempt to define 'what a liberal believes in'.

Kucinich is very liberal, but anti-abortion. I know of fairly liberal folks to are very pro-death penalty.

I tend to go with the definition of liberal I learned in college, which is basically as noted above. Liberals believe in progressive change, while conservatives support the status quo. Reactionaries want to revert to a previous state of affairs (today's conservatives are actually reactionaries, who want to elimination Medicare/Social Security etc), and radicals support radical change.

[MuseRider]

17. Small correction

Kucinich is opposed to abortion perhaps personally but has promised only pro Roe V Wade judges and has been voting pro life for over a year or around a year, I do not know the date for certain.

[mistertrickster]

3. The Rolling Stone had a debate in essay form a number of years ago

PJ ORouke was the conservative guy, can't remember the liberal . . .

Basically, it came down to this--liberals believe that some problems are so big that only gov't is big enough to do anything about it. Environmental pollution, auto safety, global warming, war and peace, poverty, education would fall into this category.

Conservatives believe that gov't IS the problem. Remember Reagan vowing to "get the gov't off the backs of the American people?" They tie into all the white rage against perceived "welfare cheats," "affirmative action," and niggling rules and regs that bedevil small businesses.

Ironically, these rules BENEFIT big business because they have the legal depts. to accomodate gov't rules so the rules have the effect of limiting competition.

[Bandit]

23. I like your assessment but I just want to throw out something to think abo

The State of Alaska just sold an Alaska State Ferry on E-bay. This was a large ship that cost the state over three and a half million dollars thirty years ago. It has been well maintained so was/is in very good condition. The new Federal regulations for carrying passengers meant the state would have to sink over five million dollars into the ferry to bring it up to code. Rather than do that the state sold it on E-Bay for three hundred and ninty thousand dollars. It was very safe and accident free for over thirty years. I think that was unfair to our state. An Unfunded Mandate so to speak. I am all for Safety Regulations as long as they don't get to carried away. In this case the Federal government went too far. IMHO

[many a good man]

4. Liberalism is the most overused and meaningless term

...used in politics today. Like the word conservative, its a catch phrase for everyone to pour their own stereotypes into. Both words should be purged from the language!

Liberalism means gradually expanding political freedoms, rights, and power to social groups who have been denied them. With the recent Supreme Court decision, rights seem now to apply to every social group in America (As Professor Jamin Raskin says 'the culture wars are over and liberals won'). What's left for liberals to fight for?

Liberals seek to use the instruments of government to promote a society that is more fair and just, and where the better-off help the disadvantaged. Liberals believe political power should be distributed fairly, not monopolized by the strong: the wealthy, the corporations, the military, or the religions. The individual should be free to express his/her own opinions and do anything they want, as long as doesn't injure others or society.

[kodi]

5. same as ever, tomorrow will bring a brighter day

liberals are by nature optimists. after that, its all details.

[Cheswick2.0]

6. we believe you can't just say "make the pie higher"

and call it an economic policy. We believe that government and elected officials should work for the good of all people not the rich corporate stock holders. We believe that human dignity is more important than "more stuff, more money". We fight for each other's civil rights because it is the right thing to do.

[DiverDave]

7. I believe.

In the free education of all our children
In a single payer health plan (for everyone)
That the right to bear arms is limited to a "well regulated militia"
In the idea that the least and the sick among us deserve help from the rest of us.
That government should regulate pollutants and business.
That marijuana should be regulated and taxed.
That justice should be TRULY blind.

I know, I know it is a dream for all this to happen.
But, I like dreams.

Dave

[bearfartinthewoods]

16. can you change least to most unfortuneate? thanks n/t

[RichM]

8. American liberalism was crippled after WWII & never fully recovered.

After the purges (aka "The McCarthy Era") a form of tepid liberalism developed which was liberal in certain areas of domestic policy, but firmly hawkish on everything else. This "liberalism" was staunchly anticommunist, & firmly supportive of militarism, imperialism, and military spending. It loved all the nasty secret machinery of the national security state (the CIA, the NSC) just as much as the Republicans. It accepted the "Myth of American Virtue."

This heritage extends down to the present day, where "liberalism" is a sloppy amalgam of a few elements of domestic tolerance & fairness, thrown together with strains of nationalism, militarism, & an incomplete dishonest assessment of America's role in the world.

[foreigncorrespondent]

9. Funny you brought this up.

I was entering DU this morning with this same thought on my mind. I was also questioning my own thoughts, especially where LGBT rights are concerned. But I don't want to hijack your thread with those thoughts, so I will give you my off the top answer to your question.

What this Aussie left winger (can't say Aussie liberal or they will think I am for the right) believes is: first and foremost equality for ALL. Not just the rich white male, but everyone.

Running from your list:

Abortion: I believe in a womans right of choice for the simple reasons of rape, health problems, and poverty.

AIDS: Aids to me is a weapon of mass destruction. Spend half the money on the research for this desease that is being wasted on the unjust Iraq war.

crime/death penalty: Rehabilitation first. No one should be given the death penalty right up front. There should be no prisons but rather rehabilitation centers. After they have gone through rehabilitation they are released, but if they end up being a repeat offender, then they should be put in prison for the rest of their lives, because these people are obviously not going to be helped.

In relation to the death penalty, I can't give a straight answer, because I am both for and against it. I believe that if the evidence is 100% proof that a person committed murder/mass murder/ serial killings, then they should be put to death. But in cases where the proof isn't there 100% then they should be put in goal to serve out their life.

defense: Too much money the world over is being spent on defence, wars, WMD etc, money needs to be cut back and put back into the community.

drugs: People should be allowed to grow a couple of plants a year for their own use. The government could make a shit load of money if they began taxing the legal sale of happy weed ciggies like they do tobacco. As for the hard core illicit drugs, then the best prevention is education and understanding.

education: Should be free for all the kids.

energy: I have to think about this one. So I can't give you an answer, because you are asking for off the top answers.

the environment: Should not be touched, especially for the oil industry. They make enough money as it is.

foreign policy: Again I would have to think about this one.

free trade/globalization: If they want to make the world free, then immigration should be free as well.

gun control: People should be allowed to defend their property, family, and themselves. Regulating the sales of guns won't stop crime or shootings, it only managed to make the blackmarket richer.

healthcare: I like the way the Australian medicare works. Everyone is covered. I feel other countries should pick this kind of strategy up. (Sappho if you want more input with this ask me questions.

immigration: All allied nations like USA, Australia, Zew Zealand, U.K, etc, should have open border policy. If not that every person in a country should have a right to sponsor a foreign partner for immigration. Not discriminated against because of sexuality.

LGBT rights: Everyone is born equal. The only time we don't become equal is if we begin living our lives the way we have born to. That should change and everyone remains equal.

marriage equality: Everyone no matter what sexualyt, colour, nationality, they are, should have the right to marry the person they wish to.

religious freedom: Religious freedom is great, just religion needs to stay the hell out of politics and remain in the church.

Social Security: I can't answer this one, because the American social security is different to the Australian.

welfare: When someone becomes unemployed, the government should be more than willing to help those people out by giving them a fortnightly cheque in return for the person looking for work. Where they live should not come into it. I don't understand why someone in the United States seeking welfare should be made to move into a welfare place just to get a cheque.

Sorry if it doesn't make sense Sappho, this is really off the top of my head.

[foreigncorrespondent]

10. Just giving this a kick for...

...the late night crew.

:kick:

[Zorra]

11. This is my idea of what a liberal believes:

Here's a comprehensive collection of ideas.

http://www.kucinich.us/

:dem:kucinich

[George_Bonanza]

12. My take... What kind of liberal does this make me?

Abortion: My belief is that within 8 weeks of conception, women should be allowed to have abortions. However, I view abortion as a last-ditch attempt to save oneself from the cycle of poverty or failed dreams. I am not in favour of letting well-off women use abortion as a contraceptive method because I think it's abusing the system intended for the needy. A tab should be kept on repeat abortionists, to get them help. An abortion is a pretty big commitment. Aborting a 8 week old or less fetus is something to ponder, but not something so important that it should outweigh the prospects of a young woman.

AIDS: It's destroying Africa and the greedy pharmaceutical companies does not see themselves responsible for people's lives unless they make a profit. AIDS will destroy Africa and inevitably spread to the rest of the world.

Crime/death penalty: Only the poor and weak get the death penalty. It costs too much to proceed with the trials and executions. It is a low practice that should maybe be used once a decade for the world's Hitlers, or Stalins.

Defense: Security is necessary, but within the confines of justice and democracy.

Drugs: Legalize marijuana and make it a government-owned product, so farmers and the economy can benefit from it, while evil corporations can't campaign to get kids hooked on it.

Education: Quality public education for all, better teachers with better salaries.

Energy: See John Kerry's 20/20 plan, or his New Manhattan Project speech. I'm all for hydrogen power, and wind power, and geothermal power, etc.

Environment: There's nothing that lasts longer than the environment. When the great American civilization inevitably withers away, the environment will still be there. Let us preserve it. Stop the ANWR drilling. Protect rainforests, yada yada.

Foreign policy: Make allies, not enemies.

Free trade/globalization: Fair trade. Nothing wrong with eliminating tariffs and political boundaries in trading, but make it fair and labour-friendly.

Gun control: Advocate non-lethal self-defense weapons in place of pistols. Keep hunting guns in check, so DC sniper wannabes can't use a hunting rifle as a sniper rifle. Keep the ban on assault weapons.

Healthcare: Work towards an efficient and free healthcare. Doesn't have to be immediate (pretty unrealistic), but make sure we take strides towards it.

Immigration: I really have no idea on this issue.

LGBT rights: Treat gays as fairly as you would treat other minorities

Marriage equality: Absolutely allow civil unions, allow gay marriages but do not alienate religious authorities

Religious freedom: Any non-violent religion should be recognized.

Social Security: I really have no idea on this issue

Taxes: Tax most those who can spare it the most.

Wages/unions/price controls: Keep wages high, I guess.

Welfare: Keep the unemployed funded, AND help them get back into the workplace so they will not need welfare.

[Sapphocrat]

13. Great responses!

This is exactly the sort of stuff I'm after!

Kickin' it for the coffee-break crowd! :kick:

[John_Shadows_1]

14. That he really ought to be a progressive.

n/t

[Sapphocrat]

18. One more kick...

...and one last request for input from all -- and then I'm going to compile your answers, as well as some views from a number of interesting sources.

Thank you, THANK YOU all again! I'll give a holler when I post the entry.

[kiahzero]

19. I believe

I'd so love to post a page or two from American Gods where one of the main characters goes on a two page rant on what she believes... really quite funny.

So... this liberal believes:

Abortion: I believe that abortions are a bad thing, in general. However, I recognize that I am not the end all be all of morality, and therefore I am pro-choice.

AIDS: I believe the federal government has an obligation to provide for more research as well as more spending on helping those afflicted.

Crime: I believe that we've criminalized a lot of things that aren't morally wrong (including, but not limited to, drug use).

Death Penalty: I believe the death penalty is wrong, both in its paradoxical nature, and its possibility of meteing out ultimate punishment on an innocent.

Defense: I believe in a strong military, but at the same time, I also believe that the United States should have a peace-keeping branch to rival those of other Western nations.

Education: I believe that education is a public good, and it is necessary for every school to be fought for; abandoning 'failed schools' is not an option.

Energy: I believe that sustainable energy is crucial, so as not to kill the Earth. I also believe that it's in our best interest, national security-wise.

The Environment: I believe the Earth is sacred, and not to be messed with unnecessarily.

Foreign Policy: I believe its a large coincidence of factors that has lead to United States hegemony, and that we should use that power to assist less fortunate nations in any way we can.

Free Trade / Globalization: I believe an accident of birth should not determine one's lot in life; it is not acceptable to condemn someone to a life of poverty simply because they were born in the wrong country. If, as those with far more background in economics have told me, it is impossible to industrialize without hurting workers and the environment, perhaps we need a new model for industrialization.

Gun Control: I believe that sane limits on the amount of firepower a civilian can own are reasonable - the Second Amendment was created as a check on the government's power, and that's really fruitless at this stage. You can't go against F-16's... sorry.

Healthcare: I believe that health care is a public good, and that the government is obligated to assist those who can not afford it.

Immigration: I believe that "illegal immigration" is a problem of economics, and that one solution is to allow more immigrants into the country legally.

LGBT Rights: I believe in equal rights for everyone, including marriage, the right to see a partner in the hospital, the right to have one's will recognized, etc, etc.

Marriage Equality: See above.

Religious Freedom: I believe religious freedom is crucial, and I also believe that using 'religious freedom' for theocracy is wrong-headed and disingenuous.

Social Security: I believe that Social Security is a public good, and a necessary safety net to insure that the elderly are not tossed aside.

Taxes: I believe taxation should be used not only to fund the government, but also as a corrective for the exploitive nature of capitalism.

Wages / Price Controls: I believe that wage and price controls are essential to prevent the exploitive nature of capitalism from shrinking the middle class.

Unions: I believe that collective bargaining is crucial to protecting workers rights.

Welfare: I believe that welfare serves as a crucial safety net to not only protect the lower class, but also keep the economy sustained.

Did that answer your question?

:D

[Sapphocrat]

20. It did indeed!

And you did it beautifully. I appreciate the time it takes to go through all the issues... I'm still working on my own answers!

Fabulous! :):):)

[kiahzero]

22. Not a problem

I'm kinda curious what this all is for, though... research? Just trying to evaluate your own stance?

[Sapphocrat]

26. No, just tring to compile...

...the definitive answer for a stranger who asked the question (see my original post).

I want to illustrate the vast breadth and scope of "liberalism" as it's defined by those who could be considered "liberals" -- i.e., there's a basic philosophy we share (primarily, the Gaia theory of everything being interconnected & interdependent, put into real-world practice), yet our ideas of how to arrive at the same basic goal (do the best job of making sure everybody's okay, within reason) are as varied as we are.

[DemBones DemBones]

21. This liberal believes that fiscal liberalism is as important, maybe more

important than social liberalism. If there were more equality in the economic sphere, we'd have fewer worries about inequality from a social standpoint.

It worries me to see so many at DU proclaiming themselves socially liberal yet fiscally conservative. The social constructs of equality are mere illusions if people do not have an economic base to negotiate their equality from.

[DBoon]

24. Liberty, Equality, Fraternity

Just as we have for the past 250 years.

[dawn]

27. my beliefs...

Hi, well I consider myself very liberal. I think it's good that there are similarities as well as differences in our opionions. This is my first post, too, so I hope I don't violate any rules here. :)


Abortion: I think women should be allowed to make the choice about whether or not they should have an abortion, plain and simple. It is a very hard decision to make, but the government should not make the decision for the women of this country. I don't think it should be used as a means of contraception, so education about contraception to teenagers and young women is crucial. But sometimes, contraception fails, and a woman has to make a choice. Do I think abortion is wrong? I'm not sure. I do think it ends a potential life, but it's a choice that needs to still be available. But women need to be able to make this decision for themselves. The government shouldn't be able to tell someone what they can and cannot do with her own body.

AIDS: We must do more to help stop AIDS deaths all over the world, and especially the huge tools happening in Africa and Asia. More money should go into this.

Crime/death penalty: I'm opposed to the death penalty, in all but the most extreme cases, like a Jeffrey Dalmer or Adolf Hitler. I think rehabilitation is better than prison for non-violent crimes. And we need to look at the drug laws. Drug possession should not be a criminal offense. Something is seriously wrong when someone can get 11 years for possession of LSD and only 6 years for rape.

Defense: Defense is important, but, honestly, we certainly can spend less money on it and still have a good defense force. I think we need to practice what we preach as far as nuclear disarmament. I am totally against the research of nuclear "bunker busters" and new nuclear devices. I believe that total nuclear disarmament of all world powers is something humanity should strive for.

Drugs: Legalize marijuana and make it available for public sale, and decriminalize other drugs. Don't make them available, but don't make it a crime to possess them. Drug users should NOT be in jail, but in rehab centers. Tax marijuana like cigarrettes. Allow people to grow a few plants of their own, too. You can't stop that, anyway.

Education: I think public education needs to be improved, starting with salary raises and more respect for public school teachers.

Energy: We need to research alterntaive energies so we can lessen our dependence on oil. I don't know enough about this, though.


Environment: Protect it at all costs. It's all we've got.

Foreign policy: We need to mend our relations with the UN and our allies like France and Germany as soon as possible.

Free trade/globalization: Fair trade. Nothing wrong with eliminating tariffs and political boundaries in trading, but make it fair and labour-friendly.

Gun control: Advocate non-lethal self-defense weapons in place of pistols. Keep hunting guns in check, so DC sniper wannabes can't use a hunting rifle as a sniper rifle. Keep the ban on assault weapons.

Healthcare: Work towards an efficient and free healthcare. Doesn't have to be immediate (pretty unrealistic), but make sure we take strides towards it.

Immigration: Well, I wish all borders could be free, but I know it's unrealistic. See, I'd want to live here for a while, in France for a bit, then Thailand, then back home. I see myself as more of a citizen of the world than of just one country. But that's not gonna happen in my lifetime. So I agree with another poster that said that the borders between the US/Canada/Australia/NZ be free. That's good enough for me!

Also, we need to face the fact that illegal immigration is a reality, and that they contribute a hell of a lot to our economy. We should help the ones working here become naturalized citizens.

LGBT rights: Treat LGBT as you would want to be treated.

Marriage equality: Anyone should be allowed to marry the person they love, regardless of sexual orientation. Any move to amend the Constitution to define marriage should be condemned. I don't care if I piss off people who believe otherwise. No, your church doesn't have to recognize same-sex unions, but stay out of civil unions, please.

Religious freedom: All religions should be respected. More education about other religions in our schools. All religions must respect one another...it's the only way we are gonna survive on this planet together.

Social Security: Sorry, don't know enough about this one.

Taxes: Yes, I'll go along with the old European quote, taxes are the price you pay to live in a civilized society. People who make more money should pay more taxes.

Wages/unions/price controls: Pro-union and pro-workers, but I don't know enough about this.

Welfare: People out of work should be funded and housed, as they are in the UK, for example. Of course, this must be monitored to stop abuse. And a main part of this effort should be to get people back to work, so they don't rely on welfare to get by. That is, if they are physically able to work.

[Sapphocrat]

29. Great stuff, and what a first post!

Welcome to DU! :hi:

[Liberator_Rev]

28. See www.LiberalsLikeChrist.Org/Liberals

Here's the "Liberals Like Christ" view of what Liberals believe

http://www.LiberalsLikeChrist.Org/Liberals


as opposed to what Conservatism is REALLY all about !