Pat Buchanan

[Taxi Driver]

What do you think of this guy?

I don't think he should be lumped in the same camp as Bush and the neocon imperialists. He was all but expelled from the GOP for his populist views. I agree with him a lot on economic issues since he is a radical protectionist and believes in using revenue from tariffs to provide for lower income tax rates. He's also an isolationist, and his reference to Washington as "Israeli-occupied territory" goes to show how wary he is of America's irresponsible foreign policy. In addition to all this, he all but endorsed Gephardt on the McClaughlin Group back in August when he predicted that Gephardt would get the nomination in response to Bush's disastrous trade policy. What I don't really like is his FAR-RIGHT social politics such as the gay-bashing and the Christian stuff, but that's not as important, in my opinion, as economic issues and foreign policy.

[wryter2000]

1. He's anti-democracy

I've heard him say twice on Crossfire (when he was a host) that democracy isn't always the best system of government. The two examples he cited were Washington DC and apartheid South Africa. What do those two places have in common?

He's a xenophobe and racist.

[Toby109]

7. I agree. If you can, listen to his speech

at the 1992 Republican Convention. I don't know what he is trying to pass as today but I don't trust the racist asshole at all.

[Ilsa]

85. After that we got Molly Ivins' famous comment:

"It sounded better in the original German."

[Noordam]

2. I think Rove hired him to kill the reform party.

http://home.earthlink.net/~bartcopdisk/reform.html But that is just my humble opinion.

[mitchum]

105. That is also my humble opinion

[newyorican]

3. Pat is not a neo-con

The kindest thing you can say about him is that he's a paleo-con. Possibly even a jurrasi-con. He is opposed to neo-con foreign policy.

[phillybri]

4. He's a bigot, but he's consistent....

That being said, he's still an asshole....

[AntiCoup2K4]

5. Pat's a racist, anti semitic right wing asshole

But he's not a neoconservative PNAC global fascist. And that's why I'm all for Pat jumping into the 2004 campaign either as a Republican, on the Reform party, as a Libertarian, or whatever. I honestly believe there's enough anti Bush sentiment on the right to where a viable third party conservative candidate could split the 'Puke vote.

God forbid Pat would emerge the winner of the election, but even that would be preferable to Bush and PNAC.

[eablair3]

11. what makes him "anti-semitic"?

what all has he done or said for you to call him that?

[Darranar]

23. Well...

there's all the junk about Jew Zionist-contolled government.

[eablair3]

25. is that meant to be a serious,.comprehensive reply?

just asking.

[Darranar]

27. I'll find more if you want.

n/t

[eablair3]

29. i'll make it easy for you

here's the "well respected" ADL's "resources" on Pat Buchanan. The link is directly to the ADL's page of quotes of "Buchanan on American Jews and the Pro-Israeli Lobby":

http://www.adl.org/special_reports/buchanan_own_words/buchanan_intro.asp

Just point out to me the "amti-semitic" remarks that Buchanan has made. I would assume that the ADL would have them well documented.

I take it since you weren't joking with your first reply to my question, that you think making statements like "Washington is Israeli occupied territory" (to paraphrase from my recollection) is "anti-semitic"?

[Darranar]

31. Well...

"What these neoconservatives seek is to conscript American blood to make the world safe for Israel."

That statement seems a little iffy to me. What exactly has Israel gained from the Iraq war?

And as for that quote, it's rhetoric intended to disguise anti-semitic motives. Coming from someone else, i'd excuse it, but since Pat has a record of being a right-wing nut (like most racists) he probably is anti-semitic.

On edit: See post #30.

[Taxi Driver]

35. Nixon was an anti-Semite

and he supported Israel like no president before or since.

Whether a man himself is anti-Semitic is irrelevant; it's his politics that are important.

That quote is not anti-Semitic, and I pretty much agree with it. While I don't think America went to war against Iraq for Israel's sake, it's worth noting that no action by America in the Mideast WHATSOEVER can occur without the support of the Zionist lobby in Washington. If Bush is Hitler; the Zionist lobby is the Catholic Church.

[Darranar]

41. You are far over-generalizing...

What "Zionist lobby?" I am a Zionist. I support a Jewish state in Palestine. Yet I don't support the Iraq war. I don't support the occupation of Afghanistan. I don't support Israel's oppression and prolonged ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians.

I don't see the lobby that agrees with me getting much support in Washington...

Buchanan and Duke seem to agree pretty well. That sets off alerts in my mind...

[Taxi Driver]

48. You know exactly what I mean.

AIPAC and the Zionists who sit at the head of corporations. AIPAC and the Zionists want Israel to expand, support settlements, support destroying homes of Palestinians.

If YOU are a Zionist, then I am a Zionist by your terms. But when I say Zionist, I'm actually talking about the American-Israeli lobby and Israel-firsters.

[Darranar]

57. Okay...

thanks for clarifying.

[eablair3]

38. that's all?

all the times that Pat Buchanan has been called "anti-semitic" and the only thing you can pick out off of the ADL's own web pages on him is an "iffy" statement?

"What these neoconservatives seek is to conscript American blood to make the world safe for Israel."

I fail to see how that statement makes Pat Buchanan "anti-semitic"?

You say "it's rhetoric intended to disguise anti-semitic motives." That's a bunch of BS, with all due respect. As much as Buchanan has been called anti-semitic, one would think that there would be more clear examples than a statement that is "rhetoric intended to disguise anti-semitic motives."

That "iffy" statement is to a large degree true, imo. I think there were more reasons at work, but certainly one big one that served as a large reason for attacking Iraq with American's dying there was to supposedly "protect" Israel. It's also a large reason why Syria and Iran are the next possible targets.

What has Israel gained? Israel got rid of a guy (Saddam Hussein) who paid money to Palestinians. Israel got rid of a gov't that opposed Israel. As an aside, plenty of reports have been out there about what Israel stands to gain from the Iraq invasion, including the reopening of an oil pipeline from Iraq to Haifa, as well as numerous lucrative "reconstruction" contracts. Are you really trying to say that Israel gained nothing from the Iraq invasion, the forced removal of the government of Saddam Hussein and the current occupation of Iraq? And, Israel didn't a pay a dime for any of it and lost not one Israeli soldier. In fact, Israel demanded and got paid billions by the Americans for sitting back and letting the Americans attack, invade and die there.

[Darranar]

42. Yet...

Extremists who hate Israel are gaining more power, Israel is being blamed by people like you for the Iraq war (which hurts their foreign relations and further angers extremists) and general hatred of Israel is increasing even more rapidly.

And see post #30 if you don't believe that he's an anti-semite.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

51. Don't forget

he denied the use of gas by Hitler....

[eablair3]

60. post 30

please don't attribute words to me that I did not say. I didn't "blame Israel for the Iraq War." The people I blame for the the U.S.'s invasion of Iraq are the people that decided to do it, i.e., George Bush and Co. Bush and Co. are solely to blame. They're the ones who decided to take the action. They are the ones who lied to push for the attack and invasion. It doesn't matter who pressured or lobbied whom. Bush and Co. made the decision to attack and invade another country - the final decision was made by Bush. And, that's who I blame entirely.

Post 30 mostly relates to Buchanan supposedly making "racist" statements, esp wrt to blacks. I didn't ask about that. I asked what he has said or done that makes him "anti-semitic"? Plus, and most importantly, there is NO LINK provided in Post 30. The person could have just made it up. There is not even a source listed.

If those statements show that Buchanan is such an "anti-semitic" person, why didn't the ADL list those statements on its page of quotes of Buchanan on American Jews and the Pro-Israel Lobby?

It just seems to me that all the statements you see -- about anytime you criticize or even question Israel or America's giving of BILLIONS to Israel, the charge of "anti-semitic" is not far behind -- are true. It's like the boy who cried wolf too often. It's become practically meaningless. It's ashame because there is "anti-semitism" out there. I just don't think that criticism of Israel's policies or actions or raising questions about how much support America should give to Israel is "anti-semitic".

It seems to me that accusations of "anti-semitism" that follow nearly every critical remark of Israel or the Israeli lobby actually hurts Israel and Jews in general. When real anti-semitism occurs, less people will take it seriously. I just think the accusation is leveled much too often.

[Darranar]

61. I almost completely agree about anti-semitism...

the vast majority of those who are called anti-semitic by the pro-Israel lobby are nothing of the sort.

Pat Buchanan is an exception. His Holocaust denial, homohobia, xenophobia, etc, all help reinforce this.

[eablair3]

65. could you help me out

and post a link and quotes of Buchanan where he denied the Holocaust occurred?

[Eloriel]

50. I can't tell you what Israel has GAINED from

our invasion of Iraq, but it absolutely dovetails with what they wanted and had my hard disk not crashed a few weeks ago I could pull out the link for the policy paper/speech done by one of our prominent neo-cons (Richard Perle, I'm pretty sure) for Bibi Netanyahu talking about it.

In fact, the whole PNAC scenario re footprints and democratization in the region is precisely what Israel -- or more accurately, Sharon and the Likudniks -- want and have wanted and asked for. Syria, Iran next on the list.

I'm hoping someone with their bookmarks still intact can come along and fill in the blanks for you.

Eloriel

[charlie]

56. You mean that "Clean Break" document?

http://www.scoop.co.nz/mason/stories/HL0302/S00176.htm

[Darranar]

58. I agree...

but AIPAC had very little to do with the war in Iraq. Their support of it wasn't rabid support.

[rman]

82. backtracking, hm? now it's "probably" anti-semitic

"rhetoric intended to disguise anti-semitic motives"

can you show how that's the case?

[Adjoran]

6. I think he's a neo-

-nazi, that is.

He's a racist, antisemitic, homophobic pig.

And his sister dresses him funny!

[Padraig18]

8. He's a bigot and a pig!

But he has more brains in his left big toe than * does in his whole cranial cavity! :P

[FlashHarry]

10. * has a cranial cavity?

I thought it was solid bone.

[Padraig18]

53. It's *rumored* to be true.

There is no independent confirmation of the fact, however. :P

[durutti]

9. Pat is a Paleoconservative

It's important to differentiate between different kinds of conservatives. There are at least three types: paleoconservatism, neoconservatism, and mainstream conservatism.

Paleoconservatives tend to favor isolationism and protectionism. They generally oppose multilateralism as well, and abhor the UN. Paleoconservatives are also typically critical of Israel. Paleoconservatives seek to revive the conservatism that existed before the rise of the neoconservatives.

Neoconservatives, on the other hand, are almost all ex-liberals or leftists. They are pro-Israel and favor an aggressive (many would say imperialist) foreign policy. Many are ambivalent towards the welfare state.

Most conservatives who hold elected office are mainstream conservatives. Mainstream conservatives mix conservatism with varying amounts of libertarianism and/or liberalism. They often speak the language of liberalism. George W. Bush is the quintessential mainstream conservative.

[SteveG]

83. excellet differentiation

While I find Buchanan basically beyond the pale, but... on this issue he has been right from the git go. His new magazine has become the only safe zone for sane and principaled conservative (and there is such a thing - I disagree with them on many issues...but generally on foreign policy they are at least on the same planet with liberals - we can at least talk to each other in the same language - the neo-cons a are from another planet) You should check out the lead article in his magazine http://www.amconmag.com/10_06_03/cover.html
It could easily have been written by someone on DU.

[Loyal]

12. Pat Buchanan is a MAJOR LEAGUE ASSHOLE!

There is no other way to put it, folks. He is a homophobe, a racist, an anti-semite, and a sexist. I know the word anti-semite is thrown around too carelessly on DU, but believe me, Pat Buchanan is DEFINITELY an anti-semite. He has expressed support for Adolph Hitler, and denied the the Holocaust ever happened. He also hates gay people(as I said above), and has been known to use gay slurs in the past. He believes that women are inferior to men, and he does not think much of African-Americans either. Pat Buchanan is not our friend. He is a piece of shit ex-Republican who only abandoned the party because they refused to kowtow enough to his far-right fetus loving propaganda bullshit, and his homophobic tendencies. Yes, he opposed the war, but if you guys love him just because of that, then that is really fucking shallow. All of this that I said may seem harsh, but it's the truth. Everytime I see that bastard on tv, I just want to punch him in his big fat nose. :grr:

[Darranar]

21. I pretty much agree...

though I'd add that I'd support him over Bush.

Yes, I'm THAT desperate.

[Loyal]

86. Darranar, I wouldn't

I would fucking stay home. :mad: But why these hypotheticals? You'll have a Democrat to vote for... maybe? :shrug:

[DemocratSinceBirth]

64. Scroll Them

Some folks on this board want to support him cuz he's right or wrong about NAFTA.....

[durutti]

13. I Disagree

I think social issues and economic issues are inseparable. American workers will not unite as a class until they quit viewing themselves primarily in terms of religion, race, or sex.

I oppose all tariffs. They merely shield one nation's working class at the expense of the working classes of countless other nations.

I also oppose isolationism. I oppose war in almost all circumstances. But that doesn't mean we should ignore everything that's happening in the world. We should simply use diplomacy and economic clout rather than military force.

[laura888]

14. my opinion of him changed radically when I read this:

http://www.amconmag.com/03_24_03/cover.html

<snip>
We charge that a cabal of polemicists and public officials seek to ensnare our country in a series of wars that are not in America’s interests. We charge them with colluding with Israel to ignite those wars and destroy the Oslo Accords. We charge them with deliberately damaging U.S. relations with every state in the Arab world that defies Israel or supports the Palestinian people’s right to a homeland of their own. We charge that they have alienated friends and allies all over the Islamic and Western world through their arrogance, hubris, and bellicosity.

</snip>

A perhaps unpopular point of view that he will take LOTS of heat for.

[Taxi Driver]

26. Did it change your opinion...

in that it made you have a more favorable view of him or the opposite?

[laura888]

32. while his views maybe viewed as extreme...

...I believe there is some truth in them. Mostly, tho, I am thankful that he is a member of the right-wing establishment with a differing view who is willing to speak out. And his reputation means that people will hear him.

[newyorican]

98. Hey, even the most dispicable a-hole...

can be right twice a day.

[in_cog_ni_to]

15. He's a racist

and proud of it. He makes no bones about it.

[Taxi Driver]

17. How is he a racist?

Ezola Foster was his running mate. That caused him to lose a lot of support.

Hell I wouldn't vote for Ezola Foster either. But my decision has more to do with the fact that she's schizophrenic than because she is black.

[Darranar]

20. He is anti-semitic...

Well, you were wondering.

[durutti]

22. Because

It made him look like less of a racist.

Also, realize that it is possible to be prejudiced against a race of which one is a member, consciously or no.

Not everyone who criticizes Israel is an anti-Semite. Anti-Zionism and anti-Semitism are not the same thing. But Pat Buchanan is really, truly a genuine anti-Semite. William F. Buckley commented that if anti-Semitism was rated on a scale from 1 to 10, with Hitler being a 10, Pat is a 4.

Buchanan's campaign staff has in the past been drawn from white supremacist and militia groups. He's called Hitler "a man of great courage" and voiced support for Holocaust revisionism.

He also speaks constantly about America being taken over by hordes of nasty non-white, non-Christian people.

[Darranar]

24. I agree...

You're completely right about him being a genuine anti-semite, which puts him in the courd with David Duke and differentiates them on that issue from pro-Palestinain leftists like Noam Chomsky.

[durutti]

30. Some Examples

Some gems of wisdom from Pat...

On race relations in the '40s and '50s: "There were no politics to polarize us then, to magnify every slight. The 'negroes' of Washington had their public schools, restaurants, bars, movie houses, playgrounds and churches; and we had ours."

Buchanan published FBI stories planted to discredit Martin Luther King Jr. as his own in the mid-1960s.

As a White House advisor, Buchanan advised Nixon not to visit King's widow on the anniversary of his assassination. He said the visit would "outrage many, many people who believe Dr. King was a fraud and a demagogue and perhaps worse.... Others consider him the Devil incarnate. Dr. King is one of the most divisive men in contemporary history."

Another memo from Buchanan to Nixon read, "There is a legitimate grievance in my view of white working-class people that every time, on every issue, that the black militants loud-mouth it, we come up with more money.... If we can give 50 Phantoms to the Jews, and a multi-billion dollar welfare program for the blacks...why not help the Catholics save their collapsing school system."

Pat Buchanan supported apartheid in South Africa. He also supported David Duke.

In 1991, he asked, "If we had to take a million immigrants in, say Zulus, next year, or Englishmen, and put them up in Virginia, what group would be easier to assimilate and would cause less problems for the people of Virginia?"

Buchanan claimed that the Nazis never gassed the Jews.

After Cardinal O'Connor criticized anti-Semitism during the controversy over the construction of a convent near Auschwitz, Buchanan wrote, "If U.S. Jewry takes the clucking appeasement of the Catholic cardinalate as indicative of our submission, it is mistaken. When Cardinal O'Connor of New York seeks to soothe the always irate Elie Wiesel by reassuring him 'there are many Catholics who are anti-Semitic'...he speaks for himself. Be not afraid, Your Eminence; just step aside, there are bishops and priests ready to assume the role of defender of the faith."

[in_cog_ni_to]

55. Here's an article

that does a good job of explaining Pat Buchanan's racist views.

<snip>Or, what would the media fallout be if Elizabeth Dole sarcastically sneered at "the poor homosexuals -- they have declared war on nature and now nature is exacting its retribution"?

How would the press corps react if someone discovered that Steve Forbes had once called Russian poet Yevgeny Yevtushenko "the porch-nigger of the Politburo," or if he labeled the 1960 Sharpeville Massacre in South Africa, in which 67 blacks were killed, "whites mistreating a couple of blacks"?

Or if Vice President Al Gore, on the subject of immigration policy, proclaimed, "Jose, we ain't gonna let you in again!"?

Or if former Sen. Bill Bradley proclaimed, "Rail as they will against 'discrimination,' women are simply not endowed by nature with the same measures of single-minded ambition and the will to succeed in the fiercely competitive world of Western capitalism ... The momma bird builds the nest. So it was, so it ever shall be. Ronald Reagan is not responsible for this; God is"?

What would happen if any non-Buchanan candidate made any of the above comments -- every single one of which came from Buchanan? The answer, according to Kurtz: "The press would go nuts." But perhaps even more curious than the silence among reporters about Buchanan's racism is the self-censorship among his fellow Republicans seeking the White House.<snip>

There's a whole lot more to the article...go here.....
http://www.salon.com/news/feature/1999/09/04/pat/print.html

Here's another article. Just google him and you can read for hours, days and weeks about all the racist views he spews.

<snip>His name is synonymous with fascism and hate. Three-time Presidential Candidate, syndicated columnist, speechwriter for Nixon, advisor to Reagan, on the board of advisors to the Southern League, which promotes southern secession (their slogan is "if at first you don't secede, try try again"). It was only after he left the Republican Party and helped make it a very rich party that you heard Republicans call him on his racism. Buchanan has an affinity for militia groups, and appointed Larry Pratt of Gun Owners of America. as his campaign co-chairman in 1996. Pratt had to resign when it was discovered that he had on several occasions addressed militias and white supremacist groups.
There is so much we have on Pat that it will take a good long while to note it all here, but a gem came in 1998, when Buchanan fired off a shot that has set off a number of people who read it. In a column titled “The Dispossession of Christian Americans” he complains about a voting bloc being built to “deprive America's white middle class of its birthright, and handing it over to minorities, who just happen to vote Democratic.”
We know nothing of this so-called “birthright”, and we are certain no one else does. This assertion is bad enough, but there is more here.
The article was about the racial and religious makeup of universities, in particular Harvard, where he found a study showing Hispanic and black enrollment has reached 7 percent and 8 percent,respectively, slightly less than the 10 percent and 12 percent of the U.S. population that is Hispanic and black.The report goes on to say that nearly 20 percent of the Harvard College student body isAsian-American, and 25 percent to 33 percent is Jewish, though Asian-Americans make up only 3 percent of the U.S. population and Jewish-Americans even less than 3 percent. Buchanan concludes by saying 50 percent of Harvard's student body is drawn from about 5 percent of the U.S. population! “When one adds foreign students, students from our tiny WASP elite and children of graduates, what emerges is a Harvard student body where non-Jewish whites -- 75 percent of the U.S. population -- get just 25 percent of the slots,” Buchanan claims. “Now we know who really gets the shaft at Harvard -- White Christians.”<snip>

http://www.onepeoplesproject.com/buchanan.htm

[displacedtexan]

16. bush makes pat look good...

the way neocons make us long for republican adversaries like goldwater.

pat's still the enemy.

[grasswire]

18. Patrick Buchanan...

...is brilliant as a visionary, a writer, and a political strategist. Yes, he's got some unsavory quirks and a sister who's crazy as a bed bug (and a brother who is really, unfortunately, mentally unbalanced). Pat is a consummate Washington home boy and insider. Baba Walters says that he's one of the most desired men to be seated next to at a dinner party, because he's extremely entertaining and witty.

I think one has to view Buchanan as a multi-layered individual. He won't toe the RNC line when it offends his paleo-con principles. He has no love for the BFEE.

Even if we repudiate much of what he says, he's still useful in attacking Bushco and the RNC.

[Taxi Driver]

19. Thank you

Pat's got a bad rap here for some reason.

[0007]

28. Rightfully so my friend -

Maybe your jinriksha has broken down.

[maxanne]

33. here are some quotes

http://www.mtsu.edu/~baustin/buchanan.html


"If we had to take a million immigrants in, say Zulus, next year,
or Englishmen, and put them up in Virginia, what group would be easier to
assimilate and would cause less problems for the people of Virginia?"
("This Week With David Brinkley," 1/8/91)
===

After Sen. Carol Moseley Braun blocked a federal patent for a
Confederate flag insignia, Buchanan wrote that she was "putting on an act"
by associating the Confederacy with slavery: "The War Between the States
was about independence, about self-determination, about the right of a
people to break free of a government to which they could no longer give
allegiance," Buchanan asserted. "How long is this endless groveling
before every cry of'racism' going to continue before the whole country
collectively throws up?" (syndicated column, 7/28/93)
====

On race relations in the late 1940s and early 1950s: "There were no
politics to polarize us then, to magnify every slight. The 'negroes' of
Washington had their public schools, restaurants, bars, movie houses,
playgrounds and churches; and we had ours." (Right from the Beginning,
Buchanan's 1988 autobiography, p. 131)

====

and of course one of my favorites:

Rail as they will about 'discrimination,' women are simply not
endowed by nature with the same measures of single-minded ambition and
the will to succeed in the fiercely competitive world of Western
capitalism." (syndicated column, 11/22/83)


Up yours, Pat

[Taxi Driver]

37. There was a time when I really cared about that...

the days when I had a decent job and didn't have to drive a f**king taxi for a living because of free trade and when America didn't squander its surplus to fight wars the spoils of which don't even go to the American people.


We're in a different world. Social issues are good for high school debate, but when my life is on the line, I could care less.

[maxanne]

40. how nice for you

I understand what you're saying about free trade and war. I know what it's like to have a shitty job - I have had them most of my adult life. I work 3 jobs to stay afloat.

I can't ignore racism, homophobia, anti-Semitism, and misogyny - no matter what my financial situation is.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

49. If You Put Economic Security Ahead Of Basic Human Rights

you will end up with neither....

[wuushew]

34. What about the Palm county votes in 2000

If Pat was really an anti-semite would he have had such a strong performance with Floridian Jews?

</sarcasm>

[Taxi Driver]

39. Pat went on the air during the recount

and said that it was unlikely that many of the votes were intended for him. That's called integrity.

[AntiCoup2K4]

47. Could be integrity or....

...it could be he thought it would be bad for his reputation if word got out that thousands of elderly Jews voted for him.

Seriously though, I do have to give Pat credit for one thing. He was always reasonable from what I remember as the co-host of the original Crossfire. Allowed both sides to be heard, and did his best to hype up the right wing point of view, but without all this shouting down, constant insult, cutting the microphone bullshit like you see on the FAUX shows that have built on Crossfire's format.

[charlie]

52. He didn't have to shout

Remember his befuddled "liberal" opponent Tom Braden? Makes Colmes look like a raging firebreather.

(Actually, I agree though. Pat still will shut up and listen)

[Taxi Driver]

54. There are many wealthy old Gentiles in Palm Beach...

they could have voted for him because they like his old-school conservative politics. He could have easily made that case. I think it was integrity.

Crossfire used to be an amazing show. Now it's a 30-minute, rushed joke that's almost like a Jerry Springer show. FAUX's shows are ridiculous. Remember Bill O'Reilly cutting Jeremy Glick's mike and kicking him off the show in the middle of an interview. It's fucking shameful.

[Old and In the Way]

36. I'd support his Presidential campaign if he ran....

against Bush.

I think we should have a grassroots action to get Pat to run...

[AntiCoup2K4]

43. Absolutely .... GO PAT GO!! GO PAT GO!!

And let's make him the keynote speaker at 'Pukefest 04 in NYC next September while we're at it :evilgrin:

[Darranar]

44. Do you know what his domestic policies are?

No to abortion, no to gay rights, no to welfare, no to all the great improvements we have made to our society in the past sixty years...

[charlie]

46. Key phrase, Darranar

"against Bush"

[Darranar]

59. If he was the only candidate...

facing Bush, I'd support him too.

But he might run in '04, and if he does he'll be technically running against Bush.

[durutti]

89. I'd Support Bush

Funny how DUers decry Bush as a fascist, but would rather support Buchanan, an associate of admitted fascists.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

94. Good God

If it was Bush against Buchanan I would join the partisans.....

I'm scared of this place....

[Darranar]

111. The Partisans DO sound like a good idea...

maybe I'd just support Nader or something.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

45. I Can't Believe Other DUERS

let the argument that someone can bash gays all they want as long as they are good on NAFTA go unchallenged....

He's a racist, an anti-semite, and a xenophobe....

Do a google search....

I'll share with you Buchanan on AIDS...

"Homosexuals declared war on nature and nature won."

I'm disapponinted nobody called the poster on that... And I'm straight...

[Taxi Driver]

62. Sorry but that issue of gay marriage doesn't affect me at all

I lost my job because of "free trade". Now I drive a taxi for a living. Have you ever seen the movie with Robert DeNiro "Taxi Driver"? That is how I live my life every single day. It's disgusting. I want my job back. Now the US is exporting even WHITE-COLLAR jobs overseas. This needs to end.

I couldn't care less whether two homosexuals want to have marriage benefits. Most homosexuals I know are bourgeois upper-middle class people. This is why I call issues such as gay marriage, marijuana legalization, and other "liberal" social issues "bourgeois issues". They are not for my life. I am indifferent towards these issues, I'm a blue-collar. Homosexuality is not the issue. Jobs are the issue.

I would vote for Pat over a freetrading neoliberal. It's time to take America back to where it used to be (industrywise).

[Darranar]

63. Why, what an enlightened stance on gay rights!

"They're all rich, why should I care?" :eyes:

I support Fair Trade, not free trade. Name a liberal - neo or paleo - who is for free trade as it exists now.

And my problem with free trade has to do more with the fact that people around the world are being oppressed and cheated by these coporations, not that at home we're losing jobs. We live in a global economy now. There's no getting out of it.

[Taxi Driver]

66. If you had only walked in the shoes of people like myself

you would understand the crisis American workers are facing. Why should I care about "gay rights"? I'm not against it, I'm not for it. I don't vote on their "rights". I vote for the prosperity of American workers.

[Darranar]

67. And what about non-American workers?

Should we just ignore them?

You aren't for the civil rights of a large section of our society?

The prosperity of American workers would be improved in the long run if fair global trade existed to a large extent. Are you against immigration, too, like Pat?

[Taxi Driver]

69. No. I'm pro-immigrant in fact

I'm not a Buchananite, but I do support him over most politicians.

I disagree with his anti-immigrant bigotry.

I am not concerned with the "civil rights" of homosexuals. It doesn't concern me. It's not going to change my life.

[Darranar]

70. So only things that...

"concern you" matter?

So you basically don't care about other people?

[Taxi Driver]

71. I'll worry about others when

I'm finished worrying about myself.

[Darranar]

72. Why not worry about both?

Or at the very least care.

[Taxi Driver]

73. I do worry about both

but trade policy is the most important issue to me. I would support someone like Pat over a corporate puppet like Clinton because it is good for me. If we could get someone like Dennis Kucinich to get nominated that would be great, but the fact remains that you can't get the nomination in either party unless you please the corporations.

[Darranar]

75. Pat's trade policy is fine, yes...

BUT:

He's anti-semitic

He's homophobic

He's anti-immigrant

He's xenophobic

He's anti-choice

He's a complete isolationist

He's a nut

His domestic polciies are pro-corporate

He's against affirmitive action

He was once a Republican

He doesn't care about anyone but himself

He hates the UN

He will cut off foreign aid and will make no effrort to help those who are suffering around the world

To sum it all up, he's a bigoted paleo-conservative.

[Taxi Driver]

76. Let's be realistic.

It's not like he's ever going to be elected, much less have a holocaust of gays. I just like what he's doing by bashing chimp's policies. End of story.

[Darranar]

77. I like him bashing Chimp's policies,too...

I just don't like his other ideas.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

79. Pat Buchanan Makes Joe Lieberman

look like Robert Kennedy....

Nuff said....

We can fix bad trade policies.....

[in_cog_ni_to]

78. Pastor Martin Neimoller

"First they went after the Communists, and I did not stand up, because I was not a Communist. Then they went after the homosexuals and infirm, and I did not stand up, because I was neither. Then they went after the Jews, and I did not stand up, because I was not a Jew. Then they went after the Catholics, and I did not stand up, because I was Protestant. Finally, they came after me and there was no one left to stand up for me."
- Pastor Martin Neimoller

[Sapphocrat]

102. in_cog_ni_to...

If any post in this thread deserves a kick, it's yours.

It's unfortunate that not everyone knows the story of Rev. Neimoller, and that not everyone who does has absorbed the the impact of his words -- or understand why it was worth sacrificing eight years of his life to live by those words.

I keep that quote at the bottom of my home page.

[in_cog_ni_to]

109. That is one of my favorite quotes.

And the words touch my soul. I try to live by those words (I am a Liberal :))and I am trying to instill the meaning of them in my son. Always defend the little guy who's being picked on. Always defend your friend who is being made fun of. Always defend your friends when they have ethnic slurs hurled at them and always, always remember...YOU could be next.

I thought the quote was PERFECT for Taxi Driver. I hope he reads it and I hope he clicks on your link to read the story of Pastor Neimoller...it's very touching.

[maxanne]

81. right on

why give a shit about anyone else?

You've summed up Republican Party philosophy real well. :eyes:

[Sapphocrat]

96. Well, guess what, Taxi Driver?

The "bourgeois issue" of gay rights is bloody well my life.

It is neither merely an "issue," nor is it "bourgeois."

There is a thinking, feeling, human being behind that little rainbow decal you see at left. I don't sustain all the garbage thrown at me because I enjoy it -- or, as some might perceive, because it somehow appears fashionable.

I want my job back too. And that is the only arena in which you and I are equal. At least you don't have to keep begging 90% of the population to simply let you have a life.

You should be grateful all you have to worry about is finding a job.

Thank God I don't generalize about heterosexuals the way you do about us living, breathing, meaningless "issues."

Go ahead and endorse Pat's long, festering hatred of people like me. I've taken it on the chin so many times, one more hit won't matter.

P.S. Don't give me any sob stories about being "blue collar." Instead, let me tell you what it's like to pick the metal chips out of my father's hair, and why the scent of axle grease and cutting oil is warmly nostalgic. Let me tell you how hard it is to get paint and grit and other's people's scum out from under your own fingernails when the best work you can get is cleaning up after human pigs.

"Bourgeois," indeed.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

68. Principled.

Unfortunately, most of his principles are dogshit.

[quaker bill]

74. Pat is a paleo-con

A different breed for sure.

He didn't like nation-building when Clinton did it and he does not like it any better at the hands of Bush*.

He has principles and sticks with them. We disagree often, but he is worthy of some measure of respect for that if nothing else.

[Redneck Socialist]

80. He's a loony, but

he is fairly effective at playing off peoples fear of foreigners and positioning himself as a conservative populist. Back when he was beating up on bush I he tapped into that blue collar wallace voter buy demonizing immigrants and corporations and at least in NH gave the bushies a good scare. It wouldn't take much for the isolationist wing of the pubs to come back into favor. Especially if things in Iraq turn ugly...uglier...worse. You know what I mean.

[SteveG]

84. He has problems, but he is consistant

He has been right on this war with Iraq from day one. He is not a hypocrite. He may be anti-semitic, he is seriously conservative in his Roman Catholic beliefs (this colors all of his other thinking - and when I say conservative, I mean Opus Dei - the guys that liked Franco)
He has a magazine (which features articles about our Iraq policy that could easily have been written by DUer's - you would be suprised at the
Conservatives who oppose this neo-con policy.... Georgie Ann Geyer, Stephen Chapman, Alan Reynolds are just few)

[DemocratSinceBirth]

95. "He has problems, but he is consist(e)nt"

Good God...

So was Hitler

Mussolini

Tojo

Stalin

Pol Pot

Milosevic

If it all it takes is a few bad words about Chimpy we should be embracing David Duke...

[poskonig]

87. Perhaps Buchanan is a future Democrat

His social views are to the right, but he lines up with the Democrats on economics, foreign policy, and civil liberties for the most part.

[pasadenaboy]

88. Buchanan/Lieberman in 2008?

just kidding

[DemocratSinceBirth]

97. At Least Lieberman

is pro gay rights

pro affirmative action

pro choice

pro immigrant....

He is embraced in the Hispanic community for his inclusive policies...

He's not my first choice by a long shot but to to compare Lieberman with Buchanan is like comparing Abe Lincoln with Jeff Davis....

[Darranar]

90. Economics?

Give me a break. he's as right-wing as the rest on economics.

[poskonig]

106. Buchanan is closer to the left than freetrade Clintonistas in the party

who are sending all of our manufacturing jobs to China and all of our white collar jobs to India.

[jiacinto]

91. Read the Death oft the West and your mind on him will change

Buchanan may be "right" on one or two issues; but, beyond that, all things considered, he is a bigot and extremist. I read about 90 pages of the Death of the West and I was ready to throw up. He is not someone to respect. He is a bigot and anti-semite--not someone we should associate with.

[jiacinto]

92. It's ironic

I find it very ironic that Buchanan has fans here at DU. I really do.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

93. Ironic...

I find it sad...

He's a documented racist...

He'e a documented homophobe.....

He's a documented anti-semite....

He's a documented xenophobe....


Scary.... ain't it.....

[IrateCitizen]

99. Lemme guess what you're implying here, Carlos...

You find it ironic that Pat Buchanan has "fans" here at DU....

Meanwhile, you repeatedly lament that "only at DU would you be considered a conservative."

ERGO...

Your detractors at DU must be nuttier than a fruitcake, because they are fans of Buchanan AND insist that you are conservative.

Nice try, Carlos -- but I'm not buying it. Not in the least.

[sangh0]

100. Nice try IC

but Carlos didn't say that, and the DUers who have anything nice to say about Buchanan are either "nuttier than a fruitcake" or "too dumb to breed w/o supervision"

[DemocratSinceBirth]

101. Without Participating In This Internecine Battle

Edmund Burke was a conservative.... His conservatism was born out of prudence and respect for tradition... There are very few conservatives in the Republican party... Most are reactionary...

No matter how conservative or not conservative some of us DUers are including Carlos, Pat Buchanan is not a conservative... He is a reactionary, an anti semite, a homophobe, a xenophobe, etcetera....

Do a google search....

He is not just the enemy of liberals... He is the enemy of all people of good will....

[mitchum]

103. I've met him, and he is a very witty and charming man....

but many of his ideas are still repugnant

[spindoctor]

104. My two cents

Buchanan has the kind of sincerity that is so rare among politicians these days that he actually feels like a breath of fresh air.

Hence the controversy on the board?

The man might have some issues, but at least he doesn't give me the feeling that he is pulling a fast one on you. This Administration has left us so paranoid that many are even suspicious about the good intentions of the Democratic candidates. With Buchanan at least you know what he stands for.

You don't have to agree with his ideas and I for one exercise my democratic right to do so, but he is miles above any member in the current Administration in matters of respect.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

108. Besides Being A Documented homophobe, anti-semite, racist, xenophobe,

etcetera I guess he's ok...

Discount Hitler's war against the Jews, Gypsies, Communists, outspoken Christians, and Europe I guess he was o k...

Some Buchanisms

Re Aids : "Homosexuals declared war on nature and nature won."

Re: Jews "There was no gas used in Hitler's concentration camps"

Re immigrants " Would you rather have an English family or a family of Zulus move next door to you"

That's just from memory...

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

107. Too bad you don't care about those issues. Civil Rights and Workers Rights

go hand in hand. In fact, the inroads the right wing has made have been largely due to pitting civil rights against workers rights.

In case you didn't notice, your job was shipped off to a country where BOTH civil rights and workers rights are given short shrift. There was a reason for that. Can't have those pesky rights for individuals getting in the way of profits.

BTW, I assume you must be white and heterosexual with such a ME ME ME attitude and MY job. One need look only to poverty in Africa American communities to see the connection between civil rights and workers rights.

The economics of it is multinationalsand manufacturers would rather pull out of America if it means they have to play by rules and honor your rights. Morons like Pat Buchanan have done more to help than hurt them.

[nini]

113. You're back.. :-)

you were missed

[Undemcided]

110. Like a broken clock.

He's right some of the time. But not much.

[_Jumper_]

112. Buchanan is just a thinly veiled mainstream version of David Duke

He is a racist, sexist, homophobe, anti-Semite, xenophobe and should be repudiated by every DU'er. Just because he opposed the Iraq war doesn't mean he is a decent person. Adolf Hitler would have opposed the Iraq war if he was alive today for the same reason Buchanan did: anti-Semitism.