Did Edwards really say the vote for IWR was right?

[Classical_Liberal]

Another poster assured me this afternoon Edwards said he only did it based on false intelligence.

[FlashHarry]

1. Yes. (Dupe)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=528391

He said, even in hindsight, he would have voted for the resolution. However, he said that, as president, he wouldn't have gone in with the same unilateral swagger as the current administration.

Personally, I appreciated his unequivocal candor, though I totally disagree with him.

[Classical_Liberal]

8. I don' t think it is a dupe

since we can't post to that thread anymore.

[Padraig18]

2. It's all discussed here

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=528414&mesg_id=528414

[Classical_Liberal]

3. That thread was locked for profanity

I would like to here more.

[Padraig18]

4. Short summary

He said he would vote for it again, given the same info, but he wouldn't have barged ahead full-steam like Bush did; Edwards would have built a coalition BEFORE.

[Classical_Liberal]

6. In otherwords he ignored the clear evidence Bush was

lying that existed even then.

[Bombtrack]

10. No, that isn't what he based his decision on

he beleives that an illiberal human-rights supporting Iraq is what might be needed to reform the middle east for the better.

Maybe he's right, maybe he's wrong

But, you are't psychic and neither am I so let's stop pretending that anybody here knows exactly how things will turn out and slandering candidates based on those presumptions

[Classical_Liberal]

11. The other alternative isn't nice either

It means he was a naif. Anyone who knows our history in Iran would tell you how silly the democracy domino theory is. One it presumes there will be a democracy at all, and I don't. They claimed Iran under the shah was a democracy. This particular administration is trying actively to overthrow a democracy in Venesuela.

[Bombtrack]

13. I think the SHAW was NAIF himself

.

[DemDogs]

62. There was no discussion of Iran

He said that he believed Saddam had a history of mistreatment of his neighbors (or something like that) and a decade long pattern of trying to obtain nuclear weapons (aside from the Africa baloney) and that Saddam with nuclear weapons would destabilize the region, which would be a threat to all of us. But he said he wouldn't have acted in the manner GWB did, brushing past our allies and going it essentially alone.

[MoonRiver]

46. I wrote Edwards off a long time ago. IF he wins the primary, doubtful,

I'd vote for him unenthusiastically. ABB is the extent of my support for Edwards.

[Name removed]

16. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[AP]

24. The world isn't black and white.

Black and white thinking is what got is in the mess in the first place, and it's not going to solve the problem.

Furthermore, Edwards is one of the few who have been consistent on this issue.

[Classical_Liberal]

26. The world is not black and white, but I will judge him on this

in the primary.

[AP]

31. Then you'll end up with Bush

I can write shorter posts then you can.

[Classical_Liberal]

35. is bush running in the Dem primary

?

[AP]

40. William_WaLLace thinks so.

[DemDogs]

63. Edwards is the only straight talk

On this issue. Everyone of the candidates with a serious chance, including Dean, has said things that have varied in force and nuance. Edwards is clear. He thought there was a danger -- nuclear not biological and chemical, he said so then, and -- although he would not have acted as GWB did if he had been President then -- he believed it was important to eliminate the possibility of a nuclearized Saddam, for the sake of stability in the region. And whether you agree with the war or not, it is impossible not to agree with that statement. It would be de-stabilizing and the impact would not have been limited to Iraq or the Middle East.
If you disagree with the vote, fine, but he has been crystal clear. When Dean suggested he had waffled in California, Dean had to apologize: Edwards has not waffled. He has backbone to say something other than pandering.

[mbali]

21. Whether you agree with him or not . . .

Edwards is taking a principled stand. He's standing by his vote and not running away from it because public opinion has changed. Even those who don't agree with his vote on the war should appreciate that he's man enough to stand by his decision and isn't wimping out by claiming that he was misled by that mean old George Bush.

[Classical_Liberal]

22. Well he can live with the concequences then

In this case it is that many are not going to view his judgement as being as good as those who admit they were wrong, or as good as those who knew they were wrong all along. I never said I wouldn't vote for him if he gets the nomination. I said I don't think such candidates are deserving.

[FlashHarry]

5. Discuss here

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=528391

[Classical_Liberal]

7. That thread is about Chris Mathews not his prowar stance

. this issue is so important it needs its own thread.

[Bombtrack]

9. Yeah, there are actually democrats who disagree with you

.

[Classical_Liberal]

12. In light of what has happened there and the way public opinion

is turning, one really wonders why? Most of those democrats will prefer Bush so this isn't an attractive or distinctive position.

[Bombtrack]

14. conservatives are supposed to be the black and white thinkers

first of all, public opion still supports the decision to invade by wide margin, so this turning is in your head. I'm a democrat who isn't anti-war, so that automattically means I would vote for Bush?

That's a pretty dumb assessment. Only about half of registered dems and strongly dem leaning independants polled say they are/ against the decision to invade

taxation, abortion, environmental, education, healthcare, ideologies don't go out the window, just because you favor an unagressive foreign policy

[Classical_Liberal]

18. If you think the public still supports it by a wide margin

you sure as heck aren't paying attention.

[AP]

27. They still apporve of the invasion by a wide margin (20 points?)

They don't approve of the post invasion conduct. But neither does Edwards.

[Classical_Liberal]

30. It looks weasely

Dean has consistently opposed. The public is going to apppreciate that opposition more an more as the Wilson Affair unravels.

[AP]

33. Waffles.

Isn't that his nick-name?

[Classical_Liberal]

36. He didn't waffle on Iraq, the most important issue.

.

[AP]

39. How'd he get the nick-name?

?

[Classical_Liberal]

42. You made up?

?

[AP]

44. Kerry called him that

after he spent a couple weeks figuring out exactly what he could say about various US actions so that he wouldn't be construed as soft on defense.

Why don't you support Kucinich if this is your issue?

[Classical_Liberal]

49. Kerry made it up than

I am pragmatic and like successful people. I am impressed with his big wallet and his antiwar position that made the establishment nervous. It is like running a world record sprint with a club foot. It is exciting.

[AP]

53. Yes, I've seen those exciting WR sprints by people with club feet.

They can be very exciting. I always bet on the guy with the club foot. In the sprints that is.

[AP]

25. Apparently, public opinion is turning back in Bush's favor

just a week after the Wilson thing. Public opinion is fickle and easy to manipulate by the media. I think Edwards's position won't be easy to manipulate by the media.

[Classical_Liberal]

28. That was only recall distraction

. This Wison thing will get much bigger.

[AP]

41. Yeah, now they can focus on liking Bush again

despite Iraq. It'll take more than Iraq to defeat Bush.

[Terwilliger]

19. warmongers

[polpilot]

15. Edwars is not very smart. He views all as a 'jury' and the 'deny, deny,

deny' lawyer mantra is very strong. Remember his surprise at the CA demo convention in the spring. He's 'bought into' "I'm JFK" and is constantly trying to remove the cotton lint from his person.

Dean '04..No Alternative

[William_WaLLace_]

17. Edwards

Edwards voted for the Patriot Act, initiated legislation yo create the Dept. of Homeland Security, and he voted for the Iraq War.

I fail to recognize much of a difference between Edwards and Bush because these are issues that are central to my heart.

In fact if Edwards gets the nomination I will vote for Bush, as well as encourage others to vote for Bush.

I think its sad when this fool can not even state his favorite movie because he fears how that may be preceived.

Edwards is quick to discuss failures in Iraq, viloations of civil rights, yet he was a catalyst behind these two items.

I said it before and I will say it again, if ANY candiate who voted for the Iraq war gets the Democratic nomination, I will vote for George W. Bush.

[mbali]

20. Yep - that'll show 'em

Lord save us from one issue voters who are out to "get" candidates who disagree with them on one issue.

That's what gave us George W in the first place - those Nader voters really showed Gore, didn't they?

[Classical_Liberal]

23. It is a primary, what do you expect?

There is only one candidate that merits absolute refusal and I have several issues of disagreement with him, and thank god he doesn't have a shot.

[AP]

29. If those are your only two issues, you're going to end up

picking a candidate who might be more like Bush then you expect, and you'll probably end up with Bush.

Actually, since you're willing to vote for Bush, I'm not sure it's worth even discussing this with you.

[Classical_Liberal]

34. mispost

mispost sorry.

[DemDogs]

64. Edwards is the smartest candidate in the field

There is a thread about this, and a huge number of people disagree with you. Including Chris Matthews, I think.
He was not "surprised" at the California Democratic Convention. He said then what he says now. Dean attacked him and then had to apologize. He never made a Kennedy reference, although many journalists and people they interview make that comment.

And we sure better hope there is an alternative to Dean -- if he is the nominee we are in the hole for a decade in the South and Midwest. Count on it.

[Terwilliger]

32. Could a pro-Edwards person give me a link...

to where Edwards quotes that he based his decision on the evidence he was given/shown, and maybe another where he says his vote was tied to positive proof of WMD's?

[AP]

38. Not what you're looking for, but interesting...

http://www.moveon.org/pac/cands/all_interviews.html#1

[eleny]

37. I guess the dems who voted yes can't come out and tell it like it was

The climate in the country back then, after 9/11 and after GW's Iraq drum beat got so loud, it was almost impossible for any member of Congress to vote against the shrub. Those were the days when Daschle was called a traitor. The administration was frantic to get seats in Congress and was pulling out all the tricky stops. How else would Chambliss unseat Cleland?

I guess that if they admitted to being intimidated by the feverish climate, it makes them look like woosies. And then, there was all that phony information they were fed. They probably couldn't risk pushing for more information. It's another one of Rove's masterful Catch 22s. Disgusting how he had them coming or going. No matter what, he inflicted an achilles heel. My 2¢.

The only question Edwards got that he failed to answer well was the one from the audience relating to his vote on Iraq. He skirted it. Otherwise, I think he shined and made Tweety look like a piker. Tweety knew he was outclassed. I really like Edwards a lot.

[AP]

43. And the person complaining loudest about Dems voting on resolution

(1) weren't even in that postition, and (2) fail to acknowledge that if it's that important of an issue, then he should drop out and endorse Kucinich.

[Classical_Liberal]

45. I think having those people call me a traitor is a badge of honor

frankly. They were woosie.

[AP]

48. You can wear that badge of honor to Bush's inauguration.

We'll all salute you.

[Classical_Liberal]

50. Since I am voting for a dem rather then Bush what in the hell

are you talking about?

[AP]

52. figure it out...can't elaborate...

...trying to keep posts short, like yours.

[Terwilliger]

51. uhhhhh......

21 Senate Democrats voted against the resolution, and 126 Democrats in the House....

So 147 people voted against IWR....what's this stuff about it was almost impossible for any member of Congress to vote against the shrub.

[AP]

54. Why isn't Dean endorsing one of those candidates

if that's the most important issue?

[JohnKleeb]

55. AP just to let ya know Terwill aint a Dean supporter

Hes a Kucinich supporter IIRC and I am for sure it isnt Dean.

[Terwilliger]

58. John?

thanks man, but don't speak for me :hi:

[Terwilliger]

57. Where did your question come from?

eleny's point was that everybody was afraid to vote against Bush, which is thoroughly incorrect

[eleny]

59. I think that if a member of Congress had any intention to run

for the presidency, it was almost impossible to vote no. Kucinich is the shining example to the contrary. But the stridency of the times, the fact that a majority of Americans polled believed there was a Saddham/Sept 11th connection and the lies we were told about wmd made it almost impossible, imo, to vote no. They erred on the side of caution.

I remember signing an online petition advising Congress that we would not vote for any member who voted yes. And I won't.

[AP]

60. So, you're voting for Kucinich, who actually proved his character

by not voting for the resolution when he was confronted with the choice?

[Rooktoven]

61. Right on the outclassing Matthews

He absolutely ate him up. I think Matthews continually tries to portray him as making arguments he didn't make and he never once fell for it. Rather, he used those Matt hews' attempts to further his point.

[PurityOfEssence]

47. Tweety started with this hatchet job, and Edwards stuck by his actions

He did not equivocate and distance himself from his vote, he stated that it was the evidence of imminent nuclear development that was always the issue for him. His point of saying that the way it was done was wrong was a major point for him, and he stuck by what was obviously a difficult decision for him.

Tweety was on the warpath tonight, and it was disgusting; he literally was putting words in Edwards' mouth and trying to get him to say that "Bush is a bad guy". Edwards responded by saying there's no way to know whether he's "evil in his heart", but quickly reminded that his actions have been wrong all down the line. He answered quite directly, and took his medicine for things he's done that are not popular, instead of qualifying them and dancing around issues.

It was obvious from the beginning--literally the first word--that Tweety intended to either get him to shilly-shally or back down on his vote, and Edwards was not letting him do this. Edwards was not particularly successful at all this, but he was in a no-win situation. Without snivelling, he pointed out that they had seen things the rest of us hadn't seen, and that it was an up or down vote on the resolution.

Fully one half of the "interview" was devoted to the war decision and an attempt to either get Edwards to deny his vote or hurt himself with the primary voters. Tweety went on to attempt to tar him as a Bush hater and class-warrior and draw him out. This failed.

The fact that he couldn't come up with a favorite movie shows that he actually values honorably answering questions, and simply couldn't think of one. I defy any of you to tell me that naming "The Shawshank Redemption" has some kind of code in it to mollify the crowd in some way; it wasn't a working-class hero movie, or a social issue movie, so it sounds like a sincere choice. For the Edwards skeptics, please note that he simply didn't have a favorite philosopher and said so.

What you saw there, people, was a truly honest man. He's wrong (in my opinion) on the Iraq issue, but incredibly resilient and right on the money on all of the domestic issues. He did not support the way the war was fought in a unilateral way, but he said so and didn't try to use this for cover.

This is a man who will give straight answers. This, sadly, is almost a death sentence in politics as currently practiced in this country.

There is nothing to fear about this man being a warmonger, and there is something to be said for someone standing by an unpopular decision. He pointed out that it was Congress' job and duty to declare war (or grant war powers) but that it's the CIC's job to prosecute the action, along with consent and guidance of the Congress. Tweety tried to twist this into Edwards not understanding the Constitution.

[AP]

56. Hey, this is the best summary of what went on...

I didn't see this thing, but that's exactly what I needed to know about it.