Dean makes false statement about Kerry

[quinnox]

From an AP story: CONCORD, N.H. - Democrat Howard Dean and John Kerry traded insults Monday over the war in Iraq, with Kerry faulting his presidential rival for a lack of policy and Dean complaining that "we wouldn't be there if it weren't for Democrats like Senator Kerry."

This is false, if Kerry had voted no it would have made no difference. Dean is once again implying the Democrats could have stopped this in the Senate, this isn't true, the GOP had the votes. That is what happens when the Republicans control all three branches of power.

Please Dean, stop distorting this to try and win votes, it won't work.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=694&ncid=694&e=3&u=/ap/20031013/ap_on_el_pr/democrats_2004_iraq

[onehandle]

1. Link?

[Rose Siding]

2. We lost the Senate in '02

after too many Dems laid down for Bush and his "leadership"

The falsity of Kerry's statement that "Governor Dean has no policy on Iraq evidently, except 'no', however is more concrete:


Dean Presents 7-Point Plan for Multilateral Reconstruction in Iraq

Wednesday April 9, 2003

WASHINGTON, D.C. -- Governor Howard Dean, M.D. called for United Nations cooperation in helping rebuild Iraq.

"We knew from the outset we could win this war without much help from others. But we cannot win the peace by continuing to go it alone," Governor Dean said. "Our goal should be what the Administration has promised-an Iraq that is stable, self-sufficient, whole and free. Our strategy to achieve that goal should be based on a partnership with three sides-U.S., international and Iraqi-and a program that begins with seven basic points." Those points are:

* A NATO-led coalition should maintain order and guarantee disarmament.

* Civilian authority in Iraq should be transferred to an international body approved by the U.N. Security Council.

* The U.N.'s Oil for Food program should be transformed into an Oil for Recovery program, to pay part of the costs of reconstruction and transition.

* The U.S. should convene an international donor's conference to help finance the financial burden of paying for Iraq's recovery.

* Women should participate in every aspect of the decision-making process.

* A means should be established to prosecute crimes committed against the Iraqi people by individuals associated with Saddam Hussein's regime.

* A democratic transition will take between 18 to 24 months, although troops should expect to be in Iraq for a longer period.

* "We must hold the Administration to its promises before the war, and create a world after the war that is safer, more democratic, and more united in winning the larger struggle against terrorism and the forces that breed it," Governor Dean said.

"That is, after all, now much more than a national security objective," he added. "It is a declaration of national purpose, written in the blood of our troops, and of the innocent on all sides who have perished."

MUCH more....................

http://www.deanforamerica.com/site/PageServer?pagename=policy_statement_foreign_iraq

[trumad]

3. If the Dem's stood up and fought against the war res

who knows what would have happened?

[Ohio Dem]

4. Like. Like. Like.

Democrats like Kerry. Like.

Not just Kerry, but Democrats like Kerry.

Big difference.

[Cha]

5. kerry's full of false statements about Dean....

And I believe Dean over kerry anyday of the week.

[Hippo_Tron]

6. Bush would've found a way to go to war anyway...

Hell since we can suspend civil liberties in the middle of a war on terror I'm sure we can suspend the war powers resolution as well.

[pasadenaboy]

7. Come on

You aren't seriously making the arguement that because more than 51 other senators voted for it, it absolves Kerry of his responsibility in voting for it. He voted for it. He should stand behind his vote, or admit he was wrong. He has don't either.

[lcordero]

8. Nope, Dean is right(as much as I detest him)

29 democrats voted for the war.
21 Democrats voted against the war.
1 Republican voted against the war.
1 Independent voted against the war.


If the Republican, the Independent, and all of the Democrats voted against the war then it would have been a 52 vote majority against the war.

http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=107&session=2&vote=00237

The link above is the rollcall for it.

[dsc]

9. The war resolution was passed in October of 2002

We were in control of the Senate that is why Senator Daschle was called the majority leader (hint that is the guy whose party has the most seats).

[MUAD_DIB]

10. Not that I support Dean or Kerry, but...

I think that you need to take a step back and realize that if more of the Dems had shown some balls (and yes that would have been tough considering) and not voted for the move on Iraq then we might not be in the position we are now.

The reason that the Repugs controll all three houses is that the Dems haven't come out swinging and kept it up. Do that and the Repugs usually back off.

Had the Dems asked the really hard questions about how we are going to pay for the war or how long are we going to be there then it might have made the * administraation look more like the fools they are now back then.

Why don't the Dems vote to demand that * bring the U.N. into this mess. That would be a start that Kerry could be proud of.

BTW: Three more troops killed on Monday.
Happy Columbus Day President fuck-up.

[angka]

11. there's just one problem

dean is right. and it's time for kerry to cop to this, and admit his mistake/collusion/whatever.

if kerry can do that he will go a long way towards restoring my confidence in him.

[hedda_foil]

12. Actually, it was Kerry who was lying.

www.blog.deanforamerica.com

Dean Laid Out Multi-Lateral Iraq Plan in April

Senator Kerry today claimed that Governor Dean doesn't have an Iraq plan. "Governor Dean has no policy on Iraq evidently, except 'no.' 'No' is not a policy." In fact, Dean unveiled his seven-point Iraq Reconstruction plan on April 9--months before Kerry unveiled his. The press release on Governor Dean's multi-lateral plan for reconstruction, and the governor's remarks at the time follow:

Dean Presents 7-Point Plan for Multilateral Reconstruction in Iraq

Wednesday April 9, 2003

WASHINGTON, D.C. -- Governor Howard Dean, M.D. called for United Nations cooperation in helping rebuild Iraq.

"We knew from the outset we could win this war without much help from others. But we cannot win the peace by continuing to go it alone," Governor Dean said. "Our goal should be what the Administration has promised-an Iraq that is stable, self-sufficient, whole and free. Our strategy to achieve that goal should be based on a partnership with three sides-U.S., international and Iraqi-and a program that begins with seven basic points." Those points are:

* A NATO-led coalition should maintain order and guarantee disarmament.

* Civilian authority in Iraq should be transferred to an international body approved by the U.N. Security Council.

* The U.N.'s Oil for Food program should be transformed into an Oil for Recovery program, to pay part of the costs of reconstruction and transition.

* The U.S. should convene an international donor's conference to help finance the financial burden of paying for Iraq's recovery.

* Women should participate in every aspect of the decision-making process.

* A means should be established to prosecute crimes committed against the Iraqi people by individuals associated with Saddam Hussein's regime.

* A democratic transition will take between 18 to 24 months, although troops should expect to be in Iraq for a longer period.

* "We must hold the Administration to its promises before the war, and create a world after the war that is safer, more democratic, and more united in winning the larger struggle against terrorism and the forces that breed it," Governor Dean said.

"That is, after all, now much more than a national security objective," he added. "It is a declaration of national purpose, written in the blood of our troops, and of the innocent on all sides who have perished."


Posted by Zephyr Teachout at 10:10 PM

[AP]

21. I wonder how Dean would have voted if he were Vt Sen running for President

Anyway, we know how Kucinich voted. If this is dean's single favority issue, and he can only speak hypothetically about what he would have done, he should just endrose Kucinich. Right?

[killbotfactory]

13. How Ironic

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=529542

Quid pro Quo, Clarice.

[Woodstock]

14. You are REALLY reaching

Kind of amusing how far.

[arcos]

15. this thread should be titled "quinnox makes false statement about Dean"

he's not only reaching, he is making up stuff!

[blitzen]

16. lame lame lame

lamest Dean-bash ever.....any moroon can understand dean's point, and your hyper-technical interpretation betrays a kind of pathetic desperation

it seems you've been tainted by the "gotcha" mentality that CNN "analysts" such as Judy mistake for useful political insight

[seventhson]

17. Quinnox , Kerry supporter, makes false statement about Dean

See how ridiclous that sounds???


If Kerry had stood up to the pResident instead of bending over for him (and actively got his fellow senators to do the same) then the blood of thousands would not be on his hands.

Dean was speaking the truth pal. You were not, IMHO

[Malikshah]

18. Uh Folks, Where's Quinnox???

THIS is the kind of crap that will lose folks the election.

People come in here-- provide the catalyst and then leave....

I don't know about the rest of you--but when I start a thread, I keep an eye on it for a while.....

Course-- folks take the bait and so it goes.

So much for honest discourse with some thread starters...

[blitzen]

19. he started an even lamer thread n/t

[seventhson]

20. eXACTLY what Josh Marshall was talkin' about just now

astroturf (fake grass roots)