even when we win, we lose

[hippiegranny]

i am reading hillary's "a living history" right now and it occurs to me as i read about the relentless 8 years of attacks on the clintons that it does not matter if we manage to legally elect a democratic president in this country. as soon as a dem gets into office, the right wing hate machine starts cranking out a non-stop parade of scandal, almost entirely manufactured, that does not allow the administration to use their time in office to do their jobs.

i remember all the stuff that went on, but when you read the first person account of it, it is mind boggling the time and money the wingers spent on an empty witch hunt. the right wing smear machine put in mega overtime hours from 92-00, coming up with some new anti-clinton fantasy almost every day. the clintons fought it, but how do you fight something you don't understand? sheer partisan hatred was not something in which they engaged, thus were unable to think like the enemy. the enemy being a well funded, professional cabal of liars.

i am so afraid for this country. i think our moment in the sun may have passed. and no matter who gets elected, we are still going to be in a world of hurt for a loooooooong time, if not forever. i suppose we have been divided like this before, but there is a feeling in the air these days that the clash of opposing idealogies is setting us all up for a big fall.

that said, i will still fight tooth and nail to elect ABB in 2004. i just see that getting elected is a baby step in what will most likely turn into the fight of the new president's life.

[Eloriel]

1. Yes. That's why we need to elect someone who

will fight back, stand up to them, put them in their places, call the shit for what it is, etc., etc.

That's why I support Dean. I believe he's the ONE candidate who can -- and will -- do that.

Eloriel

[hippiegranny]

3. thanks, i needed that!

we can only hope that what the clintons went through will better prepare the next dem pres. he/she will have to be prepared to have to constantly adrees the inane and idiotic, maybe hire staff just for that purpose.

i like dean too, but at this point, i like most of them because they are speaking out. it enrages me when the pravda puts out news stories that the dem field is invisible to "most" americans. i really doubt that, but damn!

[Padraig18]

8. Yes!

I can actually SEE Howard telling some Repuke, "Leave my wife out of this, yourotten son of a bitch!" :P

[liberalhistorian]

2. I'd like to hope that sooner or later

the general public will start to wise up to the machinations and tactics of the wingnut hate spin machine, since that has usually been the case. It sometimes takes awhile, but people do seem to tend to wise up.
The problem is that, this time, they may wise up too late, after all the major damage that can't be undone has occurred. I know from my knowledge of history, though, that groups like the RW wingnuts do tend to finally go too far, which causes the scales to drop from people's eyes and they are seen for who and what they really are and what they've done. The trouble is, it may be too late this time.

[bearfartinthewoods]

4. i'm starting to think it isn't about a clash of opposing idealogies anymor

i think the idealogies are sliding closer and closer together. that's the problem. lacking a clear diferrentiation of ideas, the battle turned to the person in charge and the country divided into teams of offense and defense.

i don't know how that changes now. i don't know how we get back to where we were.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

7. Roe v Wade and regressive taxation are hardly confused as issues

so from my vantage point I see a VERY clear difference of ideology.

[NJCher]

5. it's also why Al Franken's book is important

Call them on their lies. Every. Single. Time. Do not let one lie go unanswered. If this is done, they will lose credibility for the foreseeable future.


Cher

[AP]

6. I had similar feeling listening to an MLK speech recently. It dawned on me

that MLK lost. They killed him. I don't know when progress and liberalism has ever won.

MLK said the arc of human history is long but it always bends towards justice. Well, I'm starting to wonder if that's the case.

[zbdent]

9. Well, a Dem pres will help spur the economy

the amount of money spent bribing people to claim that XXX did this, slept with that, stole this, snorted that, etc. will start the ball rolling.

Then you have all the advertising space on the Liberal Media, Ross Perot buying up time to show how XXX's plan will kill the economy.

Rev. Moon will start pumping money back into Reagan's favorite birdcage liner.

The whole cottage industry will rev up again.

They are right, when they say it's all Clinton's fault (in one respect).

If Clinton could have served another term, all those startup .coms would be funded by rightist money to constantly claim that Bill Clinton fornicates with (Hillary) Satan.

[RandomUser]

10. New network next year

Franken will be part of a new liberal talk radio network that starts up next year. It's time for us to take back talk radio.