Fire in the Belly: Is Clark His Own Man?

[gully]

"Well, the officially-stated reason is that "Dean's too liberal to win" -- a statement that is laughably amusing, in view of the large numbers of independent voters drawn to him, as well as the non-stop attacks made on him by Dennis Kucinich. And this reason, as even former Dean-hata Ruy Teixeira admits , has become non-operative in the face of Dean's excellent campaign work and his astounding ability to raise cash.

In other words, the real issue isn't whether or not Howard Dean is electable. Dean obviously is very electable, because he's the only one of the Democratic candidates who draws support -- and money -- from non-trivial numbers of sensible Republicans and the previously-apolitical, as well as energizing the party's base. (Go to a Dean Meetup sometime and ask everyone there if they'd ever been involved in a Democratic political campaign before this year. Chances are good that 50% of them will say "no.")

What Dean is not, however, is someone who was bought and paid for by the elite conservative-Republican-emulators and insurance-industry flacks over at the DLC."

http://www.apj.us/20030916Baker.html

[demigoddess]

1. amen

Some people say Dean is too cold and has no 'fire' but I really see it in his eyes that he is really upset over what has happened in this country. I think it will really come out when he is arguing against Bush and not fellow democrats. Also he has a positive outlook and a background people can look at.

[blm]

15. What in his background can people look at without question?

You think most of his supporters even KNOW that he pushed to deregulate electricity in Vermont?

Why do you think his governor records were sealed? He tried to get them sealed for 20 years, but the court allowed him 10, and still longer than any other governor. This is someone who wants people to examine his background?

http://timesargus.nybor.com/Legislature/Story/43125.html

Dean raises money from energy sources
February 27, 2002
By David Gram
ASSOCIATED PRESS

MONTPELIER — When Gov. Howard Dean wanted to raise money for a possible presidential bid, he followed the example of a former governor of Texas and called on his friends in the energy industry.
>>>>>>>
“Administration actions going back some years betray an inappropriate coziness with the utilities,” said Paul Burns, executive director of the Vermont Public Service Research Group. “I am not prepared to say it’s a result of contributions given. But these contributions present the appearance of impropriety or appearance of influence that it probably would have been better to avoid.”

Dean’s close relationship with utility representatives dates back to the day he became governor in 1991. A lobbyist for Green Mountain Power and a GMP employee were among the first people Dean called in to help his transition.
A list of the Governor’s Council of Economic Advisers includes Green Mountain Power Corp.’s chairman, two company board members and a vice president, all of whom made donations to the Fund For A Healthy America. It also includes two longtime utility lobbyists.

Over the years, the governor has sided with the utilities on many of the most pressing issues, including the push for deregulation of the electric industry, and later backing away from that as a goal. Among other major decisions:
— After years of pushing for the companies to absorb the excess costs of their expensive contract with Hydro-Quebec, Dean’s Department of Public Service agreed to let ratepayers be billed for more than 90 percent of what those excess costs are expected to be in the coming years. The extra costs will be in the hundreds of millions of dollars.
>>>>>

[kiahzero]

2. Pay no attention to things that happened just this summer

The Draft Clark movement was all a big scam by the DLC.

I've also got a bridge to sell you.

[diplomats]

3. This Tamara Baker column is from mid-September

???

[DoveTurnedHawk]

4. This Author Is Certainly Entitled To Her Opinion, Even If It's Wrong

:-)

The fact is, there is no way a New Englander perceived as liberal (even though he's more of a centrist) who avoided service in Vietnam is going to be more electable than a Southerner perceived as moderate (even though he's more of a liberal) who was shot four times in Vietnam and rose to become a four-star general.

Anyone with the slightest knowledge of history and political "science" knows this. Clark attracts many more moderates than Dean, as recent polls and common sense have shown, so this author's empty claim that Dean is the only one to attract Independents and Republicans is obviously false.

Dean can indeed win, but to do so he will require close to a "perfect storm" of favorable events. Meanwhile, Bush will be hammering at him with his ungodly $200 MM war chest for being an anti-war, anti-patriotic New England liberal with zero foreign policy experience who went skiing and worked construction after receiving a draft exemption for a supposed bad back that his personal doctor vouched for.

Now, I don't think those are fair statements at all...but whoever said Bush was going to be fair? These types of attacks have a history of resonating with American voters, particularly those in the South. That is why Dean will have a problem if he's the nominee.

DTH

[kiahzero]

7. Hey now

Those of us who study political science don't appreciate it being knocked all the time.

You don't call it "sociology" or "psychology" or "anthropology", do you?

:D

[DoveTurnedHawk]

9. LOL!

Sorry, just force of habit learned from my dearly departed father, who had a thing against the social sciences of econ, poli sci and sociology not really being "science" at all. :-)

DTH

[kiahzero]

11. Double Whammy

My other course of study, computer science, would probably fall into that group too. :D

[LoneStarLiberal]

14. Here Here

I'm a social scientist by training and employment (with backgrounds in history and political science at the undergrad level and political science at the graduate level), and I am constantly amused with people who want to hold out social science as science on the level of the hard sciences.

What a joke.

We will never be the hard sciences; our material dictates we can never be "that scientific."

Getting closer and closer is a good thing, but we must always be mindful of where we are in the big scientific picture.

[DemCam]

5. Found the comments on Clark very funny....

Don't think they've met the General. Just talked to a guy last night who had just been with Clark for the previous six days...and his description...off the cuff?

"He's a very fiery man."

"He's the real deal".

In the pocket of the Clinton's, the DLC, the MIC, the Republican Party...and who else?

Too early for Christmas..but...

Ho, ho, ho.

[Cha]

6. That's just a blanket disingenous statement they throw out

for lack of something better to say..."Dean is unelectable"..."too Liberal" gawd this Country's in a MESS!

Funny how they are concentrating on the front runner in some polls to say "he's unelectalble"..There is a whole heck of lot of People who are in Dean's campaign with Fire in their Bellies because Dean is Inspiring that Fire!

[cally]

8. We'll see in the primary

That is what they are for. If Dean has such grassroots support, independents and Republicans than he will win with no question. If Clark can establish and confirm his grassroots support among Dem primary voters than he will win. I think all the candidates owe their candicacies to some established party interests. Who has the support is what primaries are about.

[ozone_man]

10. Dean wants it and has the fire.

Listening to his campaign speeches has convinced me of that. The fact that he is being attacked from the left (Kucinich) and the right (Lieberman) is a good thing. He's right in the Democratic Party center where he needs to be. He tells the truth (e.g. about Iraq) and it sounds radical, amazing.

[leetrisck]

12. Obviously Clark is his own man

or he wouldn't be taking so much flak from former right-wing Pentagon brass

[LoneStarLiberal]

13. Poor Article, Great Propaganda

This is a poor piece of work. I'd think it was poor if Dean and Clark were reversed in it. I'd think it was poor if it was about Kerry and Kucinich. About the only thing the author gets right is Lieberman sinking like a lead balloon.

It seems to me that the person writing this should pronounce her intention to vote for Dean at the beginning and thus save us the pained amusement of having to read all the way through to the last sentence to get that point.

To say Dean is the only candidate with "fire in the belly" (and we can ALL automatically agree on what that means, right?) is simplistic propaganda that should go over well at Meet Ups but not among a mixed crowd. If only Dean supporters were reading this, that wouldn't be an issue.

In my version of "fire in the belly" (which I'm certain differs from the author's), I'd say most of our candidates have "fire in the belly." How in the hell can anyone say Dennis Kucinich or Al Sharpton don't have fire in the belly? Only if they are playing blinkered rhetorical straw man games, that's how.

The author is right about two things in addition to Lieberman sinking like a lead balloon : The Dean campaign's excellent campaign thusfar and their admirable and refreshing ability to raise money from individuals.

Unfortunately the things the author is right about end with those three.

This is Meet Up rah-rah pom-pom material for the True Believers, nothing more.

[gully]

16. I liked the article, sorry if you didn't

;)

[kaitykaity]

17. Locking.

Please see rule #1 here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=463744

1. The subject line of a discussion thread must accurately reflect the actual content of the message.

This thread is about Dean, not Clark.

Thanks,


kaitykaity
DU Moderator