Republicans will attack us even if we continue to kiss their butts

[Q]

- Democrats gave the Bushies the 2000 election without a fight, voted for the Patriot Act, Homeland Security, the perpetual war against Brown people and agreed not to investigate Enron, 9-11 or Bush's lies that pushed this nation to war.

- I've read countless posts on this and other boards saying that we must give the Bushies what they want so they won't treat us mean or say nasty things about us in the RWing Press.

- The loyal opposition has given them most everything they've wanted and they still treat us like dirt. They want nothing short of full control of our government and unconditional surrender of all opposition.

- This begs the question: why do we continue cooperating with those who break the law, don't play by the rules and have no intention of EVER allowing Democrats to govern?

[kanrok]

1. We don't

Keep the pressure on.

[joeybee12]

2. You're preaching to the choir!

The hard part is convincing the Dem so-called "leadership" of the folly of this.

I only wonder if they really are that dense.

[rogerashton]

3. The only opposition party in this country is Workers' World.

That's the best opportunity the Communists have had since at least 1950.

[Democat]

4. We don't want to make anyone mad!

Then the Democrats in DC might not get invited to the good parties.

[Q]

7. Democrats don't want to hear it...

..Hell...I don't want to admit it. But we've gone nowhere fast appeasing the Bushies. We just may be giving them the next election in the process.

- And it's NOT 'Dem bashing' to encourage our representatives to FIGHT the filthy bastards who rule this country with an iron fist.

[Terwilliger]

9. if Bush's transgressions are criminal...

and Democrats don't do anything about it, yet some reporter finds the "smoking gun" or whatever and Bush goes down in flames... Will the Democrats be excused for not having done the right thing in the first place?

[MuseRider]

11. NO

they shouldn't be excused but they probably will be.

[Deja Q]

5. Been like that for decades

Clinton alone signed welfare "reform", fired Jocelyn Elders for being too concerned about America's youth, NAFTA, and the DMCA. If I bothered to look there are undoubtedly several other moments where Clinton and prior Dems have been "bipartisan" and all that and got kicked in the teeth in return.

No more centralists/moderates for me.

[NaMeaHou]

6. There has to be a majority of people believing that the rules are

no longer the same. Most still wander through their day to day lives believing that this government is doing what it can for their own good. They don't even question, because they trust. To lose the trust of this government would be the equivalent of losing trust in a parent after abuse of some type towards a child. The child does NOT want to give up that belief, and will hold onto the cherished beliefs until they no longer can survive mentally or physically intact.

It's going to take a lot to change this. The Fascists seem to have this well thought out, with all the bases covered. So long as democrats only react, and don't think ahead in the long term, there will be no changes.

[Q]

10. They've been planning this for decades...

...and it's always been part of the plan to intimidate the Dems into cooperating. All they needed was the right people in the right places...and a few Dems willing to forsake the party and vote with them on the pivotal issues.

- We MUST do more than just run a good candidate in 2004. They will relentlessly attack any candidate we run against them and their media will gladly assist while giving Bush* a free ride.

- We have to call for hearings, investigations and impeachment. We can no longer afford to allow the many scandals and criminal acts to go unexamined and unpunished.

[MuseRider]

8. You are right again

Unconditional surrender, those are the terms and I'll be darned if I can figure out why they are getting it. There must be some really heavy things going on or most of our leadership have simply given us up.

[NaMeaHou]

12. Democrats historically like to compromise

in the interest of getting the best legislation passed for the most people involved. The "leaders" of this party have had a difficult time adjusting to the fact that the rules have changed. There is no compromise available. The opposition has no interest in compromise, or esoteric ideas; such as, "the common good." They don't give a damn.

Also, the campaign finance laws are insane, and favor those who can win the most favor with the wealthiest corporations.

Our representatives are whores. Sad, but true. There are those that fight the good fight, but they are not getting the traction because the game is aligned completely against them.

Kucinich comes to mind this time, but I believe the same thing happened to McCain in 2000.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

20. something like that

[billbuckhead]

18. They're not Republicans anymore, they're criminals and accessories.

Their hero hit the trifecta allright, traitor, war criminal and career corporate crook.The latest Nobel prize winning economist say Bush doesn't really have an economic policy, his policy is really just organized looting. The whole world watches America bumbling around in Iraq and wonders what the exit strategy is? Most of us on DU have long figured out that there isn't one because the real reason to be there is for more looting.
And democracy? They care as much for it as any sociopaths would.

[Cocoa]

13. and dem bashers will ignore the day's news

All today:
Daschle continuing to call for a special prosecutor for leak-gate
Daschle criticizing Cuba policy
Daschle calling for greater scrutiny on Iraq funding request
Edwards saying he will vote no on Iraq money.

People, please pay attention to what the dems do in the real world, not in your mind, and contact them with your thoughts, positive or negative.

[Terwilliger]

15. Damn, Cocoa you amaze me

you talk about them criticizing Bush, all the while knowing that when push comes to shove the Democrats will do what he wants and put a cherry on top

Why don't YOU contact your outspoken Dem lovelies and tell them to get a spine.

[Cocoa]

22. to answer your question literally...

I'm not going to tell them to "get a spine" because I don't speak in cliches, especially such completely overused ones. When I contact my reps, I want to communicate thoughts to them. Cliches like "get a spine" prevent thoughts from happening. They're worse than useless.

[Terwilliger]

26. 'Democrats are worse than useless'

you're right about that

[NaMeaHou]

16. I understand, and applaud your post

however, what will come of it? Is it more empty words with no action? That is what I, personally, am tired of.

The old ways of doing politics no longer are in play.

If you have any doubt, look at Florida, Texas and California. They just happen to be three of the most populous states, and have been taken over by fascist means within the past 3 years.

Who is next?

[Q]

30. The 'action' has to come from our representatives...

...for that is what we elect them to do: act in the name of the people.

- All WE can do is encourage them to act and stop appeasing criminals.

[Q]

17. Once again you point out the speck on the elephant's butt...

...while the elephant runs amuck in the china shop.

- You should let me write your posts for you. They're so predictable one can guess what you'll come up with next time.

- We ARE paying attention to what's happening in the 'real world'. That's where we live...we're bound to notice.

- Dems 'criticize' alot...but then nothing. Criticizing means little if they won't follow through and BLOCK or vote against the things they criticize.

- You point out some nice touchy-feely things a FEW Dems are doing. But what about the REST of the party? Where was the party when Byrd was begging them to reconsider giving up their authority to the Bushies? Where was the party when Kennedy told the truth and called Bush's* war a FRAUD?

- You're talking about the efforts of individuals that have no support of the Democratic party.

[MuseRider]

19. So you think we don't

do all of that? It has become like banging your head against the wall. Daschle can scream all he wants to now that he has been painted as a wimp, it doesn't get heard anymore, they framed the discussion about him many moons ago. I say good for him, keep it up, but the public hears nothing because he was painted as a wimp and that is all they remember now. I have done nothing but write and call and encourage and scream and send thanks you e mails, we all have and here we are. HERE WE ARE! Do you honestly think we are is a good place?

[KG]

14. can't wait for the hand-wringing bed-wetters to show up and

tell us how attacking chimpy is not a winning strategy. :wtf:

their solution is to give up and run a repook replicant. :grr:

[frank frankly]

21. one by one, we are learning how to really fight and

you are correct, Q, we need to stand up and call them on their lies about everything...

[Q]

23. We have nothing left to give...

...except our souls. If it isn't clear by now it never will be: no matter what we do the Bushie Republicans will continue to label us as UnAmerican and unpatriotic. We've given them everything and they still want more.

- Now they want us to give up on the Democratic party without a fight and leave them in complete control of everything.

[MuseRider]

25. I think that

has been clear for a long time. I always had faith that our reps would at least make a noise. I know that some of them do but we will never hear it since the media has been taken. I am at a total loss as to what the next step is. Frankly I am wearing out, not giving up but getting very tired as we all must be. I don't think most of us are capable of thinking in the way we need to think to get ahead of this or to even slow it down.

[SideshowScott]

24. It does not MATTER!! They want nothing more than the death of the left!

Thats one thing i dont understand why the Dems just dont get it..They could care less if we work with them, They could care less if the dems kiss thire butts..IT ALL DOES NOT MATTER..The hard core right wingers that have hijacked the republican party want nothing more than the DEATH of the dems, the left, libirals, and anyone left of Jhon McCain..They want us Jailed or worse, They want us out of america, They want us to have NO voice in american politics, No say in the press, Our Voices NOT HEARD..To them party and obediance comes frist and america comes last..They have made Libiral a dirty word and stealing from americans patriotic..They think they above the law and anyone else must suffer..Just look at Rush as an example..Anyone else would be in an orange jumpsuit by now But not Rush..They scream about govt funded drug rehab beacuse rehab is only for those who can afford it in the right wings eyes..Just like a good education, health care, ect, ect..The dems must start to understand that they are the enemy and must fight like they do us..
No more mr nice guy

[morebunk]

27. The moral of this story is STOP KISSING THEIR BUTTS

Be relentless, be vigilant, be forceful, be honest, just BE!!!

[Q]

28. The Bushie Right has dehumanized us...

...and made us the target and the butt of jokes. We're the 'sorelosermans', the commies, the haters of freedom. We're 'soft' on national security and hate guns. We 'coddle' criminals and drug addicts. We're 'baby killers'. We're accused of 'hating' Bush* instead of his hateful policies. None of this is true...and it's time we stood up for our party and corrected the record.

- We've allowed the Right to define us and put us on the defensive.

[TKP]

51. Fiscal vs. Social

Keep in mind the Republicans control the White House, Senate and House just like our Party did during Clinton's first two years. How many of us were worried about the Democratic Party becoming too powerful when we controlled it all? How many are worried now that the shoe is on the other foot? Let's keep some prespective.


>'sorelosermans'

How many times do we read people here who still make reference to it? It happened. We need to get past it or we do sound like sore losers.

>the commies, the haters of freedom

How many people in the Democratic party support things like universal health care, larger government control over people's lives, believe the government should assure everyone has a job, etc... These things which require governmental control and oversight are viewed as socialist (which they are) and are going to be tied directly back to the USSR.

>We're 'soft' on national security and hate guns.

Democrats used to be viewed as the party for strong national defense. But lately, with our representatives having called for Defense Budget cuts, we are being categorized as soft. President Clinton's reference to having "loathed" the military didn't help matters either. And we are constantly opposing the NRA, which is viewed by many in the populace as the strongest defender of the 2nd Ammendment.

>We 'coddle' criminals and drug addicts.

IMHO, sometimes we've allowed our compassion to overcome our good sense. We've given people the benefit of the doubt when they have shown a pattern of continuing misdeeds.

>We're 'baby killers'.

The abortion issue will always be a hot topic. We've lost many, many religious Democrats over this one issue, practically the whole South and mid-West.

>We're accused of 'hating' Bush* instead of his hateful policies.

Some nationally syndicated writer (forget his name) a few weeks ago wrote and article where he started out "I hate Bush. There I said it." Just read the board here at DU. There are a lot of people who genually hate Bush.

You can carry these same arguments to the environmentalism issues.

----------------------------------------

We've lost support by core working class families over the past 40 years over social issues. People do not vote for you based on social issues. People WILL vote AGAINST you based on social issues. Our Party has taken working class families and (in their view) essentially told them that their religious convictions don't matter anymore; that they aren't able to take care of themselves, that they need government to take care of them from cradle to grave; we've left them with the impression that coddeling "the enemy" is OK (Jane Fonda, Senn Penn, etc....), and that we're going to take away their guns, which to them (coupled with more government regulations and more government programs) is paramount to taking away their freedoms. I've seen it in my own family and have heard it from friends who tell me their families have gone the same route.

IMHO, the Democratic Party needs to be about working families. Let the individual states concern itself with the social issues of the day. A Democrat in New York isn't going to see eye-to-eye on social issues with a Democrat from Alabama or a Democrat from Washington state. But, they can all agree that working class people in every state need to work together for the common good. We need to rally around our commonalities.

[TankLV]

29. That's rates a big "Well - duhh!" from me.

Maybe all those apologists and excuse makers on DU here could get a clue, please?

THIS IS WAR - Winning isn't everything, it's the ONLY thing that matters. Go for the jugular. Attack Attack Attack. No apologies, no "playing nice".

[zeemike]

31. To me there is only one answer

We have to make news in order to be heard. And that does not mean giving a speech saying wonderful things because the media will not cover it more than once at most.
We have to start freaking them out, in order to get them to listen to what we have to say.
And frankly I think it must be the young people that do it, not us old farts that have already been there and have been put down for being tree hugging, crystal rubbing New Age luddies. .

[Q]

33. Kennedy called Bush's* war a FRAUD...

...and instead of the Party joining in to help him spread the truth...nothing but the sound of crickets.

- The Party HAS TO get behind those Dems trying to expose the Bushies for the lying criminals they are. There are hundreds of elected Dems in DC. Why are they silent when America needs them the most?

[Jose Diablo]

32. Its the rich folks money

The objective is to get re-elected. As long as the central organization within the Democratic Party is obsessed with the campaign contribution amounts, then you get what we have here.

The perception is; money buys elections. This perception is self-fullfilling and needs changing.

Votes win elections, money may or may not get votes. Money is not all. An important thing, but not all.

As for the media, the media follows perceived views. As the media perceives a 'new' majority they will follow. It's all about money to them also.

The whole world appears to be money grubbers, with hardly any values whatsoever. The core problem, IMO.

[BeFree]

34. No argument here!

But..... it's not just in the halls of congress where the battle is being waged. It's also on the streets. The streets where we live.

When we can all accept that our greatest enemy is the slack attitude of the disengaged citizenry that we share our streets with.... only then will the battle be fully engaged. As long as we leave it up to a few representatives to do all our representing, we will never be represented properly.

The media problem needs a remedial revolution, yes. But we somehow have to otherwise engage our fellows. Only thing I can think of to engage and motivate our kin is to make it more entertaining. How we gonna do that? All I want to do is scream bloody murder!!

[Q]

35. The people are powerless and remain uninformed...

...without truthful representation in government.

- We elect (hire) 'politicians' to represent our best interests. What happens when they start to represent their own interests instead of the interests of the common good?

- It's about honor, duty and principles. Such things are not optional in these dangerous times.

[Q]

36. "It's not just a sin...it's a felony"

- A quote from Robin Williams talking about church pedophiles. But the same could be said about the current situation in the Bush* government.

- We can forgive sins and mistakes....but we have no right under the laws of the land to forgive felonies and treason.

- By definition...Bush* is a war criminal. He was a criminal the day he ordered troops into harm's way under false pretenses. He's a criminal for bombing residential neighborhoods in Iraq.

- I can 'forgive' Democrats for voting for the Iraq invasion knowing that they did so in the heat of patriotic fervor. But should I 'forgive' them if they still support the war knowing that Bush* lied to them to gain their vote? Are we obligated to support something based on lies and deception? Certainly it can't be argued that this is in the best interests of the people?

- The Bushies use deception and intimidation to push their agenda. The Democrats must stop them or we'll all pay the price.

[BeFree]

39. Argument

The people are not powerless. They've chosen to hand it off. If we'd all gang up and use our power the world would dramatically change. Somehow, someway, our power need be united. A good leader would help. BTW: Did you see how John Edwards is refusing to sign on to the $87B?

When the elected reps. begin to represent themselves instead of their people, we get ourselves into a mess - just like the one we are in now.

There are too few statesmen in DC. True statesmen have honor, duty and principles. There sure ain't enough honor in DC.

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

37. So stop kissing their asses.

You should have never started in the first place.

[Q]

38. I've never kissed a GOPers butt in my life...

...because that is nothing more then groveling...and I don't do groveling.

- Democrats have everything to gain and nothing to lose by actively opposing the Bush* administration's harmful policies and insane agenda.

[Hippo_Tron]

40. Agreed...

Moderates absolutely don't need to be Bushie ass kissers. We may occasionally agree with GOP agenda but we should not be to the extent and in unamended form that our senators and congressmen do now.

[opihimoimoi]

41. The PUBS don take Prisoners

:o)

[kodi]

42. these fuckers are the Borg.

two ways out, victory or death.

[Q]

43. Okay...so the title was a little offbeat

....but the idea is the same: we fight or become a permanent minority. It can happen. Just ask the Republicans. And they would STILL be a minority if they hadn't 'found' a leadership willing to lie, cheat and steal their way into a majority.

- At one time we had what I call a 'natural' majority. That's where you have real people voting for you instead of having to rig elections and buy off judges. Don't ever allow the fence-sitters to convnce you that the Dem party doesn't have a large enough base of voters to win without begging for the swing vote.

[Q]

44. The Democrats have put themselves in a position...

...where the GOPers now EXPECT them to capitulate on major issues.

- Take the 87 billion dollar Iraq vote for instance. Republicans won't even have a DEBATE on how the money is spent. It will be an up or down vote unless enough Democrats stand up and speak out. Will this happen? Probably not. In fact...there has been very little debate on many important issues because the Republicans have been able to steamroll the weak-kneed leadership.

- We've tried the bipartisan 'date rape' method of dealing with the wannabe fascist Republicans. It not only hasn't worked...the Dems are simply being left out of the legislative process.

[dusty64]

45. This is apparent to most of us here,

unfortunately many of the opposition "leaders" still don't get it or they DO and have an agenda much different than ousting our regime.

[Q]

46. Just on MSNBC this morning...

...They had a Republican and Democrat talking about the upcoming 87 billion (and counting) vote. The GOPer seemed confident that it would pass. The Democrat said that the bill should at least be DEBATED and that the majority plans on pushing this vote through without discussion about where the money would end up.

- Towards the end of the 'interview' the Democrat (sorry, didn't catch his name) said he would vote for the 87 billion...implying that debate wasn't really necessary before he voted.

- Is this the type of signal we're sending to the Bushies? We'll complain about being steamrolled but won't do anything about it?

[Mairead]

47. "Is this the type of signal we're sending to the Bushies?"

It certainly has been so far! I can't think how many times some Dem fool has said 'we must debate it first'. What? You're complaining about form? And it has always turned out that, yes, they were complaining about form, not substance. They wanted to be sure the appearance of opposition had been preserved.

[Q]

48. Well...that's a sad statement...but lately it's true...

- Republicans have learned that they can run our government without the Democrats. All they have to do is 'bend' the rules and force the house into an up or down vote without any meaningful debate that influences the outcome. They were very successful at this with the patriot act vote...with the help of 9-11 and anthrax.

- Dems still have the options of fillibusters or simply voting their conscience...or walking out. Republicans don't like party line votes on important issues. That's why they always find a way to 'convince' a few Dems to vote with them so they can call it a 'bipartisan' result.

- The Republicans are also concerned about the 'appearance' of opposition and cooperation. They don't want it to be TOO obvious that they're trying to run the government without the input of Democrats.

[T Bone]

49. the appearance of things

The gop wants the appearance of 'opposition' for their opportunistic use of it to blame and villify the democrats.

The gop wants the 'appearance' of bi-partisanship so THEY can't be solely blamed for anything that goes wrong...

We give them cake and let them eat it too, most of the time.
How do we break that cycle?

[Q]

50. Dems need to attack the RWing on their lies about the connection...

...between the 'war on terrorism' and Iraq. Republicans are saying that any resistance to the 87 billion Iraqi funding is being soft on terrorism and 'inviting' another attack like that on 9-11.

- Democrats must stand up and say that Iraq has NOTHING to do with the war on terrorism. That it's BUSH'S* WAR and it was based on LIES and deception...not about fighting terrorism.

[Q]

52. Are the Democrats in congress merely putting on a show...

...about the second round of Iraq funding (87B)? A few Dems are squawking about it but then go on to say they'll vote for it.

- In other words...they're knowingly voting for billions of dollars in PORK that will make Bush* campaign supporters very, very happy.

[Mairead]

53. I'd make book that, with a few principled exceptions (DK in the lead)

they are, in fact, only doing a pantomime opposition and will quickly cave when their show is over.

[Loonman]

54. No Shit

The Dems don't have a unified message. In fact there is no coherent message at all, so the Repubs roll us EVERY TIME.

[Q]

55. This situation MUST force us to ask questions...

...and demand answers. Here we are...all hoping and praying that our Democratic party trounces Bush* ass in 2004. But what are THEY doing to make sure this happens?

- Are they voicing strong opposition to his insane policies of perpetual, preemptive, aggressive war? Are the questioning the rationale for the invasion and occupation of Iraq? The no-bid billion dollar contracts to those who will help the Bushies stay in office after 2004? What have they done to guarantee that 2004 won't be a repeat of the fraudulent 2000 election?

- Is the loyal opposition trying to put to rest the lies about WHY the Bushies rushed this nation to war against a country that has been PROVEN was no threat to our security? It seems all these arguments have 'bin' forgotten and replaced by a new series of debates about to what extent we 'have to' fund Bush's insanity.