"Dirty Campaigning"...the Republlican charge that works

[cally]

I'm trying to get some perspective on the recall outcome. I know there are many reasons for the Arnie takeover but I think a main one is that the Dems held back their attacks because the Republicans had successfully painted Davis as a dirty campaigner. Thus, any criticism at all was immediately spun as dirty campaigning. The Dems did not use much of the dirt or legitimate information they had to not risk this accusation.


It is the exact same thing they did to Gore. Gore was spun as an attack dog so he tried to come off statesmanlike while Bush and his minions constantly attacked him. It was OK to say Gore lied, or wasn't manly, but it was 'dirty campaigning' to point out the Chimps horrible policies ans record in Texas.


I think Dems just have to fight back and not let the Republicans quiet criticism of your opponent.

[proud patriot]

1. Dems need to take the reigns

and say "it may feel like an attack but it's just the truth"

[rootvg]

4. Here's Something You...

...might want to consider. "Take Back The Government" you say. Well...you DID take it back, in 1993 and 1994 - and Americans didn't like what they saw. In late 1994, they gave it back to the Republicans (for the most part, off and on) and it's been like that ever since.

The party's gotta change. The constituency and popular perception of that constituency MUST change. Most people don't think of the Democratic party as "their" party - they see it as the union guy's party or the gay party or the abortion party. That's why you don't win elections, especially in the South.

Oh, so delete the post. Yeah, that'll really help you beat Bush and elect a Democratic Congress.

NOT.

[maggrwaggr]

6. And why is that? Because the right-wing has won the propaganda war

The right wing has been able to portray the Dems as "the abortion party" or the "gay party" or the "union party".

[kiahzero]

9. OK, Nietzsche

Why don't we just all become Republicans?

[rootvg]

10. In The South...

...that's actually happening. Look at Zell Miller - he almost crossed over. Dick Shelby did.

[msmcghee]

16. We tend to lose in states . .

. . that are uneducated and racist. We tend to win in states that are more educated and more inclusive.

I can understand why you would advise us to become less educated and more racist in our policies in order to win more elections.

Unfortunately, unlike you guys, it's hard for liberals to cast aside our priciples just to win elections - so we'll just have to keep doin' the right thing and paying the price. But thanks for the advice.

[Capn Sunshine]

18. But you are making the same mistake all the republicans make

We WON in 2000. WON. More votes than the other guy by a mile.

We had NO MESSAGE except "we're not them " in 2002. It was post 9-11 fear that kept the reps in power, not a mandate.

The same "message" in Arnolds case was " no more status quo"
NOT " republican way is better" If "republicans are better" was a winning ideal, Mc clintock would have won.

If you fail to see this you go back to the repubs and tell them you've succeeded.

But the reality is neocons have had their day, blown the wad, and are about to get the boot, just like the repub lite dems like Davis. Populism reigns, and the party that exploits this more wins.

Get it?

[gulliver]

2. Dems need to fight fire with fire too.

We should be kicking and screaming about dirty campaigning by the Rovists too. Just bring up Rove's past over and over. Bring up what Rove and the Wiley's did to McCain. We can't be on the defensive about dirty tricks when Bush/Rove are the art's most blatant practitioners.

[Cha]

3. That's laughable...they of the orginal dirty campaiging!

Just throw Max Cleland back in their faces.

[Guaranteed]

5. How about the dirtiest tactic of all?

Courtesy of the Republicans- "anti-war people hate America."

[maggrwaggr]

7. We need leaders who will use their tactics against them

for instance ....

equating giving rich people a tax break as un-American (which it is)

equating attacking defenseless countries that have never attacked us as un-American and chicken-hearted (which it is)

equating corporatism with being unAmerican (which it is)

deregullating industries as against the American people (which it is)

equating the facilitating of corporations wrecking our air, water, and land as an attack against the American people (which it is)

What is America, if not the American people? This is where we've lost. Somehow the Republicans have been able to convince the American people that's what's in their best interest is in letting corporations run roughshod over the American people!

It's time to play hardball.

These people are so un-American they should all be in JAIL.

We need to start harping on THAT.

[rootvg]

13. Are You...

...even listening to this? Americans don't believe that - once again, in the South which is also the fastest growing part of the country. Lots and lots of political moderates own small businesses or work as corporate managers...this was the strategy in 1988 and it went nowhere, just as it would go nowhere today.

The country has changed, but the Democrats haven't and it shows. Migration of white collar professionals to Right To Work states continues unabated. Survey after survey shows that most people identify themselves as moderate conservatives. That dovetails perfectly with widely accepted survey research data showing most of those who vote are somewhere in the middle - and Democrats aren't good at getting those people to vote for them. The hard left special interests would just as soon nominate one of their own and have him slaughtered in some kind of religious sacrifice on election day. This happened in 1972, 1984, 1988 and 2000. You're more interested in feeling one another's pain than winning, and it MUST stop.

Do you want to win or not?

[ShimokitaJer]

15. Either you've bought into the Republican smears or you're one of them

The country has changed, but not in the way you pretend it has. Whether or not "most people identify themselves as moderate conservatives," the issues that concern them are overwhelmingly Democratic: education, health care, workers' rights. We aren't going to get a ton of "centrist voters" by abandoning these issues and acting more like Republicans.

And the Democratic party has also changed, but toward the center, not toward the left. If you honestly believe that 2000 happened because the Democratic party was too liberal, you haven't been paying attention. They were acting so much like Republicans that the average voter couldn't tell the difference. And this is the strategy you advocate for winning?

Either you're a mole, or you're seriously misguided.

[bushisanidiot]

20. Look at Gore + Nader votes versus AWOL + Buchanan votes

"Survey after survey shows that most people identify themselves as moderate conservatives".

Look at those votes. Gore + Nader beat AWOL + Buchanan by a landslide. Translation: The United States leans LIBERAL!!

The only way repukes can win is to divide and conquer. How do they do this? Dirty tricks politics, funding Green party nominee, smearing right wing nominees who aren't on board with the master plan (McCain), using phone banks to tell unsuspecting voters that the democrats are required to vote the day after the general election and that if the governor of their state is republican then they can't vote for a democrat for president, etc. etc. etc..

Oh yeah, and to come up with an attack on america e.g. 9/11.

[maggrwaggr]

23. what you describe is losing, not winning

it's called capitulation.

So go be a "good German" on someone else's dime. Not here.

[maggrwaggr]

8. We need to take back the media

because no matter what our message is --

Nobody hears it.

Whose message did the media choose to trumpet in the Arnold election? Arnold's. Nobody else's. Nobody's ...

Who did the media trumpet in 2000? Bush.

Could anybody say with a straight face that Bush "won" either of those debates? Fuck no. But the media did.

We need to shut them down. Either by lawsuits or by physical force. Surround their buildings, cut their power, just shut them down!

[rootvg]

11. How Do...

...you shut down Fox with a grassroots lawsuit? You don't - you find a way to deal with the problem by moderating the party.

You have to do this, or there's not going to be a party. I don't see any other way.

[maggrwaggr]

22. then go vote republican, you capitulating coward

What you're advocating is a capitulation .

sorry, some of us are too patriotic for that.

we need leaders, not followers. Go folllow somebody else you yellow coward

[kentuck]

12. Does anyone really think Arnie's strategy was his alone?

He stonewalled. He hid from reporters. He refused to answer questions. He had the balloons and signs and controlled media that looked like a certain national party? Any ideas?

[rootvg]

14. Arnold's...

...an empty suit - yeah, no kidding. He does have Willie Brown on his staff but it's all Wilson's team behind him.

I'll be very interested to see how he deals with Jackie Goldberg and John Burton.

[Capn Sunshine]

17. I was at ground zero during this campaign

and I can tell you this Cally: all you state is true; but not germane to the issue that defaeted the dems. That issue was Gray Davis. The 25% of dems who voted against him should be recognized. They couldn't stand him, and this for them was NOT about republican vs. democrat.

WE were the partisans, and got out triangulated by the campaign that assmebeled a media driven outrage against the "car Tax" ( Pete Wilson)and the "neregy debacle ( Pete Wilson)

We were no better at identifying the outrage with status quo than the Bush White House is. Davis was just as entrenched.

Sure der gropenfurher is a front, but the msitake the partisans are making is that he is representing himself to be republican. The "true republican" in this race only got a pathetic 15% of the vote. Something is happeneing here, and we had best make peace with it.

[JI7]

19. YES, YES, YES

i posted something similar around elections. how they accuse davis of dirty campaign tricks. and that's how they blew off all the truth of accusations against arnold. but only thing is that it was NOT campaign tricks and it will and should not go away.

[Junkdrawer]

21. Isn't the "self-inflicted slash" a hallmark of KKKarl Rove?

I remember reading that during the Bush DUI ending of Selection 2000.

[LoneStarLiberal]

24. Dog Fight Time

You are exactly right.

There is a popular perception, even one that is popular among liberals, that getting bare knuckles with the Republicans just simply isn't in our nature.

Now that we have all seen what the cost of laying down to Republicans entails, we need to fight or officially surrender. Why? Because if we don't fight we are going to be pimped out for another four years of Bush doing what he wants.

In feminist circles there is constant discussion about reclaiming certain words that wider society has identified as naughty or undesirable or inappropriate. I think we need to borrow that same idea and reclaim some of the cherished Republican talking points about us. Here are my two suggestions for starters:

1) "Big Government Liberals:" Needs to be reclaimed because we have the New Deal and Great Society because Republican administrations screwed this country and its citizens blind. I like civil rights. I like Social Security. I like Medicare. I like the TVA. We should be questioning why the rich Republican tossers don't like these things that help the working people of America.
Go on the attack! Call them what they are: Cheap Labor Conservatives, and Stock Option Conservatives: soft on corporate welfare and staunch enemies of the average American.

2) "Democrats Campaign Dirty:" Needs to be reclaimed because these evil shitheels are far better at dirty tricks than we are. Hit them time and time again with the smearing of Max Cleeland and that dirtbag Saxby Chambliss, hit them with the Plame Leak, hit them with Willie Horton. Show the American people that Republicans are just as dirty and in many cases dirtier than Democrats; they embrace the opportunity to place the race card and call it economics or crime.

It's not rocket science. The Bush administration has given us tons of ammunition. It's time we started firing back at them.

I think rootvg makes some good points elsewhere in this thread: We need to show the Bush administration as the enemy of the middle class and the working class that it is, not attack them in manners that are easy for them to transfer off to moderate constituencies like middle managers, etc. These people have been hurt by the administration's mendacity on corporate corruption. It's an easy and effective case to make to the millions out there who have seen their 401K plans decimated by Enron and Worldcom.