No, Really: What is the appeal of Dean?

[Dob Bole]

As a young white/native american southern poor internet using leftist college student, I find that Dean doesn't really appeal to me. Yet according to the media he should, because I use the Internet. I find this stupid, so I'm going to ask Dean supporters directly:

What, in your particular situation, made you choose Dean? (I doubt it was because you use the Internet, but I digress.)

P.S.- Please don't whore my thread by using it to bash Dean or any other candidate. I'm just trying to gain an understanding of his appeal, since "Internet" and "guns" are way too simplistic answers.

[frank frankly]

1. it was his opposition to the war

He was against the war. He said it often, with passion.

He is otherwise, a nice mix of liberal/progressive policies with the sensibilites of a pragmatist and tightwad.

And he is not 100% establishment bought and sold.

I may vote for Dennis K, but its either him or Dean for me because they were against the war. I also think Clark was against it.

[spooky3]

26. I agree and he gets credit from me for

being principled. With his background, he could have behaved in his own financial self-interest (i.e., advocated conservative positions), with his contribution to society limited to donating money to the symphony or something else he enjoyed, like SO many of his peers. But like Ted Kennedy, John Kerry, and a few other notable exceptions, he took the more difficult path.

[blkgrl]

2. He's tough & passionate about his beliefs

For that reason I also like Sharpton. Kucinich is passionate, but he's not tough. I never got over the way he shriveled up during that Chris Matthews interview.

[CWebster]

21. yeah, that was stunning

I felt like kicking Matthews' shrill and hysterical ass around the block in Kucinich's defense. Matthews was way out of line and caught Dennis off guard with that sideswipe. Dennis learned it is open season on him where behavior such as Matthews demonstrated wouldn't be tolerated for any of the more conventional establishment types. I hope it doesn't make Dennis so defensive that he goes on the offensive and attacks to ward off bullies--his message is way too important to be lost in petty games.

[spooky3]

27. I hope he watched his friend John Edwards' interview

and learned that the only way to handle mini-bullies like Tweety is to stand your ground.

One of the skills needed to be a successful trial attorney representing the little guy...

[CWebster]

30. Well, Edwards didn't do a very good job

of answering the straightforward question put to him about his vote, but he did dance around it like a good lawyer.

Not good enough.

[Pavlovs DiOgie]

36. I hope that when DK gets his full hour on Hardball

that Tweety isn't playing the role of pitbull again. What he did during that interview with DK was horrible. Dennis is much better than that interview made him look.

[madfloridian]

3. I like him because he is a mixture of views and ideas.

I am tired of candidates that can be put in boxes and neatly labeled. He can't. He is more of an individual with strong views, but he is willing to listen and evolve.

Since I don't fit a pattern of a certain type of Democrat, that is what I appreciate in him.

I think he will be tough-minded on the job. That is good. He does not seem rigid with a lot of fixed beliefs.

[DuctapeFatwa]

4. He never moves his head for any reason

nt

[Clete]

5. He's a doctor and he understands the problems

in our country's health system. He knows we have to get the corporate pigs out of our medical system.

[bushisanidiot]

40. Holy Crap! I love That Picture! :)

oh yeah.. go dean!!!!!

[WillyBrandt]

6. Because he talked mean

Because he talked mean and tough against the bastard in the White House, and didn't lay down like a wimp like so many others. Goddamn, that bum Bush needs to be cussed at 100 times per day by everyone in every medium, and only this feisty weirdo from Vermont was doing it.

And he had a fun campaign, to boot.

I'm now a Clarkie, and certainly have my issues with Dean on many levels, but I absolutely see at least one facet of the appeal.

[dsc]

7. Several things

First, I would be a Gore supporter had he run again. He didn't so I had to go elsewhere.

Second, Dean got my attention with his Civil Unions decision. I was impressed with the fact he succeeding in granting gays rights that two other Democratic governors (Alaska, Hawaii) failed to grant. I was further impressed with his campaigning on having signed that bill in the face of literally death threats (he wore a bullet proof vest for much of that campaign). He was a friend in need.

Third, Upon inspection I find him to have the message I think is best able to win. He is a governor and that is a big deal (JFK is the last person who wasn't VP, incumbent, or President to win). He has balanced budgets, produced jobs, insured his state's children and working poor, and delivered a good enviroment. That stands in stark contrast to the current President.

Fourth, He has run a phenominal campaign. He went from a virtually unknown governor from a dinky state with less than 1% support to a real contender. He is leading or tied for the lead in IA, NH, several other states, the nation in some polls, and fundraisning. That is unreal. He also has shown an ability to get the press to examine false articles they write on him. His DDF needs to be coopted by the winner if it isn't Dean.

Fifth, He shares many of my values. I don't like government in my bedroom. I don't think it is wise to wage unprovoked wars. I think we need to stand up for what we believe in and tell truths even when unpleasent.

Sixth, He is willing to discuss Civil Unions in most of his appearences and on his literature. It was beyond awesome to see him at Arnold's Point Iowa, in an audience that had to be virtually all straight, tell the crowd about signing that bill and why it was a good thing. I have never seen a candidate do that. Never. I have had several pieces of Dean literature and have never seen a piece of it that doesn't have civil unions on it. He not only is doing right by me but saying right about me to.

[ozone_man]

31. I like your points and add a few more.

Dean has been a strong advocate of alternative energy and will be attacking Bush on his poor performance in that area. Many of his initiatives, including energy efficiency have been implemented.

Dean is a centrist, not the liberal painted by the right wing press. His 10 years as governor show this. He is a fiscal conservative and social liberal and has courageously passed civil union legislation in Vermont.

He has the experience in running government and the courage to take on the difficult economic issues that we are now facing and that Bush has pushed aside by waging war, deficit spending and cutting taxes.

He is advocating a major change in our health care system, not just trying to fix medicaid, but probably eventually replacing it with a national health care system (he takes realizable steps toward this goal).

Most important to me is Dean's sense of community. He and his wife are family physicians with his wife still practicing. He has sent his kids through the public school system, and has been active in community involving programs like "success by six". He takes time to "smell the flowers", and likes to hike, skate on the lake, coach his kid's hockey team, etc. Taking time to enjoy the outdoors is very important to me.

[TLM]

When I first saw Dean....

someone sent me a link to a speech he gave to the NY teacher's union... a fantastic speach wherein he talked about what he has done with the special education system in Vermont and the success by six program.

Both really moved me and that's what drove me to get more info, and the more I found, the more I liked him. All and all so far there is maybe 5% or 10% of Deans stuff I'm not thrilled about and 90% or 95% I am happy with.

Dean is not a far left guy who has some real high ideals, but never gets a damn thing accomplished… he is a moderate who gets the job done and makes progress. He doesn’t bend over for the right wingers… but he also isn’t afraid to stand up to the left either. I like that. I like that he is a strong and proud democrat, without being just a party hack.

[Demobrat]

8. He spoke for me when everybody else

had their heads too far up Bush's butt to breathe. That's what started it, anyway.

[HFishbine]

34. Ditto

Same here.

[FrenchieCat]

9. Sorry but I don't get it either

Maybe cause he was first to tap into the helplessness and horror we felt as we were marching for peace, and got no response.

Maybe he was the first to utter words that made us realized that we were not alone.

Although I also understand that he had not much to lose doing it....it was forceful.

Unfortunately, I want a President that has the qualifications to deal with the whole world. So Iam for Clark.

But I would vote for Dean.......ABB!

[JVS]

10. As Lincoln said of Grant "I can't spare this man. He fights"

[LittleDannySlowhorse]

11. The media says a lot of things

I'm a Dean supporter, but the internet has nothing to do with it. Just because the media says you or I am supposed to fit into some demographic doesn't make it so. People in my age group are supposed to watch "Friends" too.

There are 9 candidates running right now, so you actually have the luxury of doing some window shopping and seeing who resonates with you. Dean resonates with me, but if he doesn't do it for you there are other options open to you. You'll find your own candidate in time. I also like Edwards, I've agreed with a lot of things Clark has said, and I've been VERY surprised by Sharpton. Kucinich has a lot of positions I agree with... basically I feel like if you don't like Dean then you've made your own decision-making process that much easier.

The best thing you can do is completely ignore the media and visit the candidates' websites and get it from the horse's mouth, so to speak.

Happy hunting!

[Mariner]

12. He's a good man, but ....

Dean is tough and articulate, and I agree with his stands on most issues. I'll support him without reservation if he wins the nomination.
But the sad fact is he will get his ass kicked in the general election.
Three reasons why:
1) He wants to raise taxes on the middle class. He frames it as repealing Bush's tax cuts but a tax hike is a tax hike. Raising taxes would work politically if he limited it the rich. It's political suicide to support taxes on the middle class. Ask Gray Davis.
2) His campaign rhetoric attacking "fundamentalist preachers'' is stupid. I dislike Pat Robertson as much as the next guy, but attacking people's religion is out of line. As a lot of research has made clear, a huge number of Evangelicals voted Democratic in recent presidential elections. Dean alienates Evangelicals as well as fundamentalists when he makes sweeping attacks on religious figures. Religious tolerance cuts both ways.
3) The civil union thing, sadly, is a killer. It shouldn't be an issue but the Republicans will make it one unfortunately.

[Hippo_Tron]

13. You don't have to fit into the stereotype

My dad is a well educated internet using liberal and prefers Kerry over Dean.

[George_Bonanza]

14. Straight talker/outsider

[Eloriel]

15. So many things

Being anti-war when anti-war wasn't cool (not a pacifist, anti-THIS-war and for all the right reasons).

His outspokenness on this and other things Bush preceeded virtually ALL Bush criticisms that we've been hearing -- he lead. Others followed. He gave them cover. They used it.

I like most of his policies. Many of them I love. He implement an innovative plan in Vermont which ended up cutting child abuse by 43% and child sexual abuse by 70%. This WILL reduce Vermont's prison populations, and that is precisely why he implemented it -- he didn't like increasing the prisons budget by 16% one year and said to himself (and others), we KNOW by kindergarten which 5 or so kids in any given class are likely to end up in prison. Let's do something about it now. As someone who volunteers as a child advocate for abused and neglected children, as someone who feels disconsolate about our prison populations and prison industry, this one thing means a lot to me.

Because he shouted out -- giving voice to me and millions of other Americans -- one fine day in California, "I want my country back!" If I hadn't already been a supporter, he'd have had me hands down right then and there.

Because his campaign isn't just enormously creative, it's revolutionary. He is empowering Americans, and the campaign is a grassroots movement, not just a political campaign. "YOU have the power," and by golly we do. The local MeetUps go right out and organize their own things. It's also the first Open Source Iterative Campaign in history. The campaign staff reads every bit of the blog comments every day. They take everything in, and the campaign and the candidate evolve. WE have the power to affect this campaign -- and we have, and we do, and we will.

Because he's unbought (funded primarily by The People in small amounts usually under $100 at a time) and unscripted and unhandled. He is what he is, warts and all. He's a little scrappy, he's a little peevish at times, but by God that's what's needed right now. I don't think he's gonna take any shit from anybody -- not now, not after he's in office, like Clinton did. Nor should he. We've got to face these fascists down.

Because he has an inspiring vision for America -- read his June 23 speech. I think it's the perfect antidote to decades of Republican celebration of selfishness and greed. He also speaks about (and Clark later picked up on this, as he has other Dean ideas) planning 25 and 100 years ahead. Just as he planned ahead and put a sharp dent in child abuse in Vermont, and thus prison populations 20 - 25 years hence. He's a visionary, but he's also a pragmatist. Yeah, single payer healthcare would be better, for example -- but it won't pass. Dean's plan will pass. As he put it: we've been promising Americans healthcare for 40 years. Then we argue amongst ourselves how to "fix it" and it doesn't get passed, and millions of Americans go without healthcare for another decade. Let's PASS it and then work on fixing it -- it may not be perfect, but all Americans will be covered. I like the pragmatism.

I like the pragmatism of his position on guns. Pragmatic, and cuts the hell out of a losing issue for us among some potential voters.

He's the most honest politician you're going to find, IMO, possibly in our lifetimes. His honesty and character have been confirmed by people who know him (a friend's doctor who grew up with him AND continues to be friends, columnists in Vermont, etc.).

He speaks forthrightly, bluntly, clearly, succinctly. I love his straightforward way of communicating with people.

He energizes, inspires and empowers people. He gives us hope.

For the most part, the other candidates have policies, and to some extent resumes. Dean has that and much, much more. Revitalizing the democratic process and forging a revolution in the way campaigns are conducted are nothing to sneeze at. He's drawing people from all political persuasions, and bringing hundreds of thousands of people into the political process for the first time in their lives.

I would encourage you to spend some time -- once or twice a day for a week or so -- reading the posts to his blog. (Click the "comments" link under the various entries) to get a feel for what is going on within the campaign, among supporters. Read some of his speeches (or better yet, if you can handle the downloads, watch them).

Do it with an open heart, and I think you'll find another open heart, and a lot of open hearts among his supporters too. Not a perfect man, or a perfect candidate, but something quite remarkable.

Eloriel

[REP]

17. What Eloriel Said

Thank you, Eloriel, for writing that - saves me a bunch of typing!

I heard about Dean a long, long time ago. In addition to the points made above, the things that got me from the start was his clear-headed and realistic approach to healthcare and his forthright, non-apologetic support of reproductive rights. In this day when so many do a bunch of phoney hand-wringing, his statement that it is a decision in which the government should not interfere, period, really appealed to me.

I was also struck by his obvious intelligence and his courage. Still am.

I'm not young (I'm 38) but I did hear about him on the 'net (just a data point). My mom, who's even older, heard about him from me and about a million of her friends. I don't know how my neighbors - mostly my age - found out about him, but they're supporters, too. Not because we think he can win - though we do - but because we WANT him to win!

[RevolutionStartsNow]

42. What Eloriel said, and because...

the first time I heard him speak, I heard what he was saying and understood his positions clearly. I didn't get this from any of the other candidates, except maybe Dennis.

I am one of those Dems who has been brought back into the process by Dean. I now find myself working on committees, donating the max amount of money, slapping stickers on my car (unheard of at my house!) and recruiting friends family and strangers to this campaign.

I also love how the campaign makes everyone feel like they are part of the process, every day.

[dkf]

16. The man is a tough customer.

He's smart and knows how to get things done. He is absolutely a dominating presence.

He finds incompetence inexcusable, yet he has great compassion for the defenseless and those in need.

I feel secure when I think of him leading our country.

[Friar]

18. I like his chin n/t

[Julien Sorel]

19. His forearms. Paul Bunyan had forearms like those -- in his dreams.

[onebigbadwulf]

20. Let me list

1. Anti-war and proud of it
2. Gave health insurance to 99% of children in Vermont
3. Reformed wellfare in vermont
4. Lowered the crime rate by doing these things
5. Balanced the budget in Vermont
6. Pro-equal rights for everyone
7. Not a southerner
8. Not Bush
9. Not a crusty war veteran
10. He is a licensed medical doctor
11. He will reform malpractice
12. Won't alienate us from the world
13. Not a zionist
14. A "cool dude"

Anything I missed?

[Bread and Circus]

22. He was willing to feistily criticize Bush...

when no one else was really doing so in a powerful
over the top way.

Now everyone's doing it and we have to thank Dean
for that.

[Jacobin]

23. He opposed the invasion

When it was extremely uncool to do so. The pundits wrote him off when he came out against the invasion because, I mean, who could possibly get the nomination when everyone, just everyone was all gung ho to go get that mean old saddam and save the free world from all the WMD.

He also bashed Smirky when it was considered treasonous to do so.

He still does. Other Dems have started to do so, but only after he let them know it was "ok" in America, to criticize the leadership.

[CWebster]

24. Because he was tough and confrontational

while the others caved. He earned respect among the base because he was fearless and has a solid, practical, common sense grasp of reality.

Others posture about their strengths, Dean puts it to action.

[Jonte_1979]

25. My thoughts on this

I like Dean because I think his policies are sensible. They are neither left nor right. He has quite a few non-leftist stances on the issues but at the same time, he is also very quick to harshly condemn the many absurdities coming from the right.

As a godless European, I also find his lack of references to God in his speaches very refreshing.

[Classical_Liberal]

28. His stance against the war and the fact that he is

winning by throwing out the DLC playbook. I think the DLC needs to be lowered a notch or two or three.

[fla nocount]

29. Hates war....loves to fight.

Isn't politically correct, only candidate who has never had a DC office much less had one for decades. Owes few if anyone favors, is not the DLC/DNC candidate of choice, seems to offer a clear alternative to business as usual.

HAS NO TIES TO INDUSTRY.....HAS NO TIES TO THE MILITARY.

Just might pull the Green vote, might even prevent a Green candidate from running in the general election.

[farmbo]

32. No kidding...his stump speech on the Southerner with the Reb flag...

I first saw Dean on the February Meet the Press. He posed the question: "Why shouldn't that guy down south with the rebel flag sticker on his pickup be voting for the Democrats? His children need health care and a good education too. What have the Republicans done for HIM lately?".

He pledged to take that fight to the Republicans in the South.

I knew after I learned his background that he would carry the traditional Democratic areas, and that he had a sharp intellect and a Kennedy-esque chrisma. But it was his willingness to take the fight to traditional GOP areas on basic economic issues that won me over.

[Township75]

33. Gun Rights and Standing up to Bush when it was the most difficult*

*

[joeybee12]

35. It's because I believe that he believes

I don't get that from any other candidate--dean is passionate, and maybe a little quick tempered, but he seems to realize how fucked up this country has become, while the others appear tobe corporate lackeys, getting thier positions and issues statements just right so as to not offend anyone.

[Pavlovs DiOgie]

37. There are really good posts here

So instead of reiterating those good points, I'll just tell you that if you haven't seen him give a speech, you haven't really seen Dean yet. Check out howarddean.tv for examples. He has a difficult time coming across well in 60 second soundbytes. Watch one of his speeches, or his run on the AM news shows on DeanTV, if you haven't already. :)

[bushisanidiot]

38. He's Got "It". I knew it from the first time I heard him speak.

He doesn't talk over people's heads which means he can reach most voters comprehension level, but doesn't have to resort to the baby 2 syllable words that AWOL has to use.

He knows his facts, doesn't need a cheat sheet like AWOL.

He's a straight talkin' in your face democrat who, along with all of us, wants his goddamn country back and his goddamn flag back!

Go Dean!!!!!!

[curse10]

39. I don't get it either

he's supposed to appeal to me too- but he kinda just creeps me out. :shrug:

[LuminousX]

41. He's a pragmatist

He understands that sometimes to reach an ideal, you have to take some pretty small, seemingly insignificant steps. He isn't a culture warrior. For same that is a turn off, but for me it is a big plus. He will easily step around the GOP regarding their cries about morality, etc. He is willing to speak bluntly. That in and of itself is worth my vote. If someone is going to screw me over, I appreciate them being man enough to say so to my face. Dean is like that. I may not like some of his positions but he makes no bones about them being his positions. The only one he is wishy-washy on is the death penalty because he became in favor of it in order to get elected. When he talks about it you can see he doesn't have a strong rationale to be for it.

I believe, from what I've read, from the speeches I've heard and read, Dean is capable of working with a Republican congress if he gets stuck with one.

[indigo32]

43. I first saw Dean on C-Span

at an Iowa gathering probably in Oct of last year... didn't even know he was running... probably should have seen it coming ;) He gave a wonderful speech about healthcare and childcare all the things they accomplished in VT and how he felt the same could be done for the Country. He spoke passionately. Later when I heard him pushing the Senate democrats a bit...it only echoed what I was feeling. I really felt like they were( and still are) walking all over us and nobody was saying anything. Finally I saw him again in Iowa on C-Span. He was talking to a small group of voters. A repuke plant (yes a plant I've seen it before) stood up and asked him about Civil Unions and marriage for GLBT and you could see, you could see his answer was real... and he turned it around on her and corrected her misconception about the policy.
Anyway today...I admit I'm having some doubts...(policy wise and electabilitywise) but no one else has really inspired me (Edwards is growing on me... who knows)

Thats my experience

[Eloriel]

44. Definitely

deserves a

:kick:

Eloriel

[LSdemocrat]

45. I saw him speak in Jan. 2002

I was thoroughly impressed by his accomplishments and style of leadership. What impressed me the most was his pragmatic, long-term approach to governing. This is not someone who will sacrifice the future to make a short-term political gain. He looks at the facts, not ideology, when governing. I feel that Gov. Dean's leadership is something that is sorely needed in this country.