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DOBBS: Filmmaker, author Michael Moore has been an outspoken critic of corporate America, the media, the gun lobby, the Bush administration, especially the Bush administration. In his new book, "Dude, Where is My Country?" -- actually, it's "Where's My Country?" -- Moore calls for regime change in Washington. He claims, among other things, that there is no terrorist threat against this country.
He joins us tonight from Chicago.
Michael, good to have you here.
MICHAEL MOORE, AUTHOR, "DUDE, WHERE'S MY COUNTRY?": Thanks for having me, Lou.
DOBBS: The idea, first...
MOORE: There is a terrorist threat here in Chicago, though. It's called the Florida Marlins.
(LAUGHTER)
DOBBS: And they're giving it a bit of a run. And that will be taken up and resolved, at least part of it, later.
Let's start with your incessant calls for regime change, as you put it, for the Bush administration. George Bush is a nice guy. He's been very effective, to this point, in a host of ways. Why would you single him for your particular brand of torture and criticism?
MOORE: Because he's a serial liar, to start with. He lied to the country about weapons of mass destruction, about chemical and biological weapons in Iraq, about Saddam Hussein having something to do with September 11, and on and on and on and on and on.
DOBBS: Well...
MOORE: The American people don't like being lied to, no matter what their political stripe is. That's just the core value of us Americans.
DOBBS: And which party would you suggest they should turn to, Michael, for this resplendent virtue that you seem to hold so dear and find so absent in the Republican Party and President Bush?
MOORE: Yes. Yes.
I know what you're getting at. The Democrats aren't much better.
(LAUGHTER)
DOBBS: Well, I didn't say that. I was just wondering how you thought about it.
MOORE: Well, here's what I think.
I think, first of all, there are a number of good Democrats that are running this time around that are honest and will, I think, do the job much better than George W. Bush, certainly will bring an end to this war and get the country back on the right track.
DOBBS: Which of them, Michael, most embraces your views, of the nine? Have you made a decision?
MOORE: No, I haven't made a decision. But Clark is good. Dean's good, Kucinich. Even Al Sharpton, just for human purposes -- and I mean that in a good way -- is good to have in the debates.
DOBBS: Well, you've cut the list by about 45 percent there.
MOORE: I'll say something good about all of them, actually, except Lieberman.
(CROSSTALK)
DOBBS: Why Lieberman?
MOORE: Each of them -- well, that's -- Lieberman is what has been wrong with the Democrats in the past. Lieberman is a Republican posing as a Democrat.
If the Democrats want to win, they've got to get some backbone and some spine and start acting like Democrats and not Republicans. People who like Republicans already have a party. It's called the Republican Party. These (CROSSTALK)
DOBBS: You're not much of a new Democrat. I thought you were kind of excited about President Bill Clinton.
MOORE: Well, Clinton did a lot of good things and he did a lot of things I didn't like. But these Democrats that are running, at least, I think, the majority of them, are even better than that. And so...
DOBBS: Well, let's talk about some of these candidates and which sort of embrace your views or don't and get your views on a few things.
One, some of the more important issues, which of these candidates do you think is talking most seriously about issues of population growth in this country, what it's doing to our natural resources, what it's doing to our society?
MOORE: I don't know much about population growth. Are you accusing me of something or...
(LAUGHTER)
DOBBS: No, no, not at all, Michael.
Let's talk about illegal immigration, illegal aliens.
MOORE: Oh. Oh.
DOBBS: Maybe eight million to 10 million of them in the country. What do you think we should do there?
MOORE: Oh, there's more than eight million to 10 million. Actually, I think most of our forefathers came here in some way, shape or form...
DOBBS: No, no, Michael, I said illegal.
MOORE: Oh, that's what I mean. I think a lot of people, a lot of our ancestors got here by any means necessary, many of them illegally. And so now we have a new crop of people who are here -- quote -- "illegally." And
(CROSSTALK)
DOBBS: So you're not concerned about border security or our national immigration policy?
MOORE: No, no. Actually, I welcome people to come to this country. It's a large country. If you've ever driven across Kansas, you know there's lots of room.
(LAUGHTER)
MOORE: And I'm not worried about people who choose to come here and work hard to clean our floors, pick our fruit, and do all the jobs none of us want to do.
So I don't know why we want to punk on these people. Lou, this is the part I don't get. Why do we as Americans -- or at least some Americans -- want to punish the people who are the least among us? That is not the way I think most of us were raised. We should hold out a helping hand to those who are trying to make a better life, I think.
DOBBS: Yes. I think you and I would agree this country has a remarkable record of generosity in nearly all respects, internationally, with immigration.
But, at the same time, you talk about the people most deprived in this country, they are the people also most suffering as a result of very depressed wages because of illegal immigration. And it's something that no one wants seemingly to touch in politics. They'd rather repair to some sort of soulful refrain about opening our arms. We've opened our arms.
MOORE: How about this? How about this? Why don't we all agree that we need to raise the minimum wage? Wouldn't you agree with that, that the minimum wage has been too low for too long? Wouldn't that be a big help to people on the lower end of things?
DOBBS: I think that it would in some cases, in others, not, particularly the imposition that it might put on some small businesses.
(CROSSTALK)
DOBBS: If you and I were going to negotiate, I would say to you that it doesn't mat what the minimum wage is, so long as you have a constant flow of one million illegal immigrants into the country every year that will work for lower wages, doing so now. And it continues to depress it. And I know you support labor unions, but they have this bizarre philosophy that they are going to endorse illegal aliens, at the same time, trying to protect jobs. I don't know if it's worked. Do you?
MOORE: Yes.
I don't think large corporations really want to get rid of illegal aliens, because, again, the economy would not function without their slave labor.
(CROSSTALK)
MOORE: So it's kind of a moot point.
DOBBS: Well, oddly enough, it won't be moot as long as you and a number of other people keep focusing on the issues. And you do so with great humor. And I always enjoy talking with you. We don't often agree, but there are those moments, this probably one of them.
Michael Moore...
MOORE: Yes. This actually is a tender moment between you and I. And I want to thank you for having me on the show.
(LAUGHTER)
DOBBS: Well, Michael, thank you very much. And I appreciate your time. Appreciate it. Good luck with the book.
MOORE: Thank you very much, Lou. Thank you very much. I appreciate it.
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