Filmmaker Moore says recall was democracy

[DisgustipatedinCA]

Filmmaker Michael Moore told students at Butler University that last week's California recall election offered hope for democracy -- and for defeating President Bush next year.

"Anytime you have an angry mob of voters, that can't be a bad thing," the Oscar-winning maker of "Bowling for Columbine" told about 2,100 people during a speech Monday.

The rotund, scruffy-bearded activist from Flint, Mich., who has repeatedly criticized the war in Iraq, said he hoped voters would be angry enough to deny Bush a second term.
...

Link: http://www.salon.com/ent/wire/2003/10/15/moore/index.html

I like Mike, but I sure don't agree with him on this one. I think people were duped into believing this was democracy in action, but in no way did this resemble any sort of true democracy.

[roguevalley]

1. I don't agree with him either. This was an abuse of the system.

*

[lysergik]

2. Well,

It might have been BS at first, but Davis really nailed his own coffin shut with the Illegal Immigrant Licensing bill and the tripling of vehicle registrations. Two things that REALLY pissed people off and got the attention of those who might not have voted originally or were against the recall.

[xxqqqzme]

26. Davis DID NOT

triple the registration fees - get your facts straight! The fee increase was built N2 the legislation, signed by Wilson. Registration fees R the main source of income 4 your county and city. When COUNTY revenues fall below a fixed amount, the fee increase kicks in. The fees DO NOT go 2 the state!

[lysergik]

28. Ok, but he implemented it.

I seriously doubt this was widely advertised to the citizens of California and even if it was, most didn't pay attention to this all it did was piss them off.

[morgan2]

3. its democracy

but democracy doesn't mean the right choice.

[hippiechick]

4. I think he meant it as 'what they did to us, we can do to them'

:hippie:

[Hep]

5. God I hate Michael Moore

It makes me a little nauseated to even think about him.

[Room101]

7. Hep - God I hate you, ignored

:nuke:

[NormanConquest]

10. El-Oh-El

That's really funny!

[Hep]

11. Wha?

You can't hate me! I'm so lovable!

[Room101]

16. Hello people, he is playing this right.

As a California Duer who worked his ass off to defeat this recall, we have to concede the defeat. Yes I believe the Recall is unfair, but so is life. He is playing the right angle here.

The angle- the voters of California rebelled against the problems of the state, which have been produced in abundance nationally by Bush. People want change, this will seep into the blood stream of the country. This Recall highlighted why Bush should be recalled (not re-elected.) They recalled Davis because of High deficits and high unemployment.

Bush nationally has given us the biggest annual deficit in US history and a 9-year high in unemployment. Moore is highlighting the anger of the voters, which we all hope goes national. People who throw the baby out with the bath water are ideologically blind, missing the strategic message this sends.

[Hep]

23. This is a silver lining, for sure

but it doesn't justify the dark cloud that looms over politics as a result of this recall.

And I think we're about to learn that this particular recall won't result in a solution to the problems, because Gray Davis wasn't the problem in the first place.

But since you live in CA, I want to ask you. Did deregulation help cause this mess? I really don't know. I didn't pay as much attention when the energy crisis happened. And now of course I hear all sorts of explanations.

[shance]

27. Denial is not a river in Egypt ***

I cant understand when the writing is clearly on the wall, the Democrats are looking for a different font or shade of color.

It amazes me. The denial of the Democratic party is going to wipe us out. If we dont start facing reality instead of blaming others, we are over and done, put a fork in us.

It seems clear we will never know the honest outcome of this election because what ocurred was exactly what various articles, experts and studies revealed would happen, but most Democrats as in our leaders, put their fingers in their ears and started whistling a happy tune.

How many ballots and machines were manipulated? We dont and will never know. That is the lovely thing about electronic voting.

What we do know is its amazing how 140 + candidates receive a sizable portion of votes in counties that they werent even from.

[TKP]

6. California Politics

I'm not sure how this could be labeled an abuse of the system since it has been on a part of California law since 1911. It was direct democracy as the populists who made the law intended.

However, I will agree that Davis nailed his own coffin shut. The people in the SF area voted 2 to 1 against the recall, but even the one's I talked to about it weren't happy with Davis, they just didn't want Arnold.

What the Dems should have done was to have Davis step down and have Bustamante take his place before things got out of hand. Once again, egos got in the way of what was best for the Party and untimately for the state.

[AP]

15. Blacks were 2/5ths of a person and that was in the constitution for a long

time. It didnt' mean it was right.

This is how the recall is undemocratic.

Name me ONE politician who could survive and election in which you first ask thumbs up or thumbs down on him or her, without having any idea what the alternative might be, and then you ask people to vote for any one of hundreds of people OTHER than that person.

We, as Americans, hate politicians. We vote for the best of a bunch of mediocre choices who are designed to appeal to a lot of moderates. Take any one politician and vote up or down on that one person, and you're not going to find many would make the cut.

This law is DESIGNED to be get incumbants unelected. The only thing that limits its use is that the person wielding the law looks bad. So, you have the person who uses it drop out of the race, and then you bring in a fresh face to benefit from it.

In any event, fewer people voted for Arnold than voted NO on the recall (ie for Davis) or Yes-Arnold (ie, Arnold was the second choice after Davis). So, in effect, we had an election in which choice number 2 won. Kind of like Bush in 2000. Any surprise they're both republicans?

[BikeDeck]

19. 2/5ths

Blacks were 2/5ths of a person and that was in the constitution for a long time. It didnt' mean it was right.

Actually, the number was 3/5ths. Do you know why it was done?

Southern states would have had a massive majority in the House and control the legislative branch if slaves were to be counted as "whole people." Thus allowing them to expand the practice into the new territories. Northern states didn't want slaves to count at all. A compromise had to be reached.

[AP]

21. Oops, 3/5ths

Art I. Sec 2: Representatives and direct Taxes shall be apportioned among the several States which may be included within this Union, according to their respective Numbers, which shall be determined by adding to the whole Number of free Persons, including those bound to Service for a Term of Years, and excluding Indians not taxed, three fifths of all other Persons...

[DCDemo]

17. It can be labeled an abuse of the system

Because it was a populist based idea - when the PEOPLE decide that the elected official should go, they can then work on getting him/her out.

In this case, this was big-money Conservative activists buying the recall effort with their money, and really has to do with the Power Crisis and the lignering effects, some of which are lawsuits against the Power Companies that will likely be negated under a more Coporate-friendly administration.

Anyone who thinks this was the clear will of the people is naive at best, delusional at worst.

[dpbrown]

8. This is a rehash of the "throw the bums out" sentiment

This general idea has been debated in several editorial columns lately, so having Moore parrot the sentiment isn't any big deal. The general idea is that people are upset with "incumbents" when the economy and other crap is going poorly, and more likely to "throw the bums out." I think that's all this is about, and I think he's right. If the economy and everything is still crap, more and more people are going to think the same thing about Bush.

[ramapo]

9. What was it then?

I don't like the result but there was a voting process that was in place and was followed. It was more democratic then many elections. At least there were a lot of choices. Just none of them good. The best looking got elected. That's California's problem.

Davis screwed up and got called on it.

[BikeDeck]

12. My biggest disappointment

My biggest disappointment in the entire recall was the day after when Nancy Pelosi said that elected officials shouldn't have to watch their back and be fearful of a recall.

WRONG Pelosi. Elected officials should always be watching their backs and be fearful of the voters. Keep your promises. Do your job. Tell the truth. You will then not have to fear the voters.

A politician who is fearful of voters is a politician with something to hide.

[Hep]

13. Exactly!

I though tat the recall process was supposed to remove a governor who can be showed to be inept or who has done something illegal or improper.

[Kanola]

14. I like what Mike has to say usually but he is wrong in this one

He is not seeing it as the RW power grab that is so blatant to us. BTW, I am going to see him next week in Stockton, CA

[leftofthedial]

18. this was the triumph of money over the will of the people

recalls and referenda are antithetical to representqative government.

[cknoch]

20. Moore is wrong....

Moore's quote, "Anytime you have an angry mob of voters, that can't be a bad thing," is dead wrong. We're a representative democracy for a reason....to avoid mob rule! The point of having representatives is that it enables them to make poor and/or tough decisions (like raising taxes or making unpopular decisions) and have the time to let the effects speak for themselves. We have more measured and constrained means in most other states for dealing with gross misconduct in office.

Also, Davis may have trippled registration costs, but I'd be interested to watch how AHHHNOLD!!! (yes his name must always be said like this) uses the increase in revenue in his "budget audit" over the next year or so.

It would be very easy for him to make a couple ineffective budget cuts and then use the revenue from such a program to "turn things around". A little off topic there.....but you get the point....

PURE DEMOCRACY STOPS OUR LEADERS FROM MAKING THE MASSES TAKE THEIR BAD TASTING MEDICINE.

[newyawker99]

29. Hi cknoch!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[Sperk]

22. unless it's an "angry" and DUMB mob of voters!

:eyes:

[DFLforever]

24. I've felt that Michael Moore has a much better understanding

of American society than than he has of American politics. This statement of his proves it to me.

[mitchum]

25. Well, so is a lynchmob

[Cheswick2.0]

30. I wish this asshole would just stick to movies

He is a hopeless idiot at politics.

[realFedUp]

31. Michael's lucky time is on his side

His books have the advantage of 20/20 hindsight
and other people's research.