While some watched games, America shook tonight, ..the dam broke!

[Flying_Pig]

I am stunned, nearly speechless, still, more than an hour after I watched Scott Pelley's interview with Greg Thielmann on 60 Minutes II tonight. The dam has broken. Mr. Thielmann worked with Colin Powell, and he tells the story of the lies. In addition, scientists are also interviewed to further rebuke Bush's, Cheney's, and Powell's lies. Unbelievable!

This is the first video footage at a major network, that fully carried the story of the Bush adminstration's lies about Iraq. This was major. This is what we've all been waiting for. THE TRUTH!! The story of Bush's lies has been broken by a major network.

In addition, ABC News Nightline this evening, is scheduled to do more of the same.

If what happened tonight is carried over into tomorrow, there will be calls for impeachment within two weeks, or less. The games have smothered these earth-shaking stories, but not for long.

Here's a link to the 60 Minutes II Piece. Enjoy!!:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/10/14/60II/main577975.shtml

[Wonk]

1. mp3 and quicktime video here for those who missed it

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=536320#540413

[Flying_Pig]

4. Thanks for that Wonk... People should watch this. Were you as

shocked as I was? Have ever seen anything so beautiful!! This is the kind of story that brings down governments, and it was presented in a deadly serious manner.

[shockingelk]

30. uh,

I don't want to bring down a government. Just return ours to a sane state ...

[alphafemale]

40. Agreed. We need to restore LEGITIMATE government.

Take the country back.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

14. As usual..thanks!

[Wonk]

24. Welcome, Teena. Glad you're still lurking sometimes. I miss your comments.

Race ya to 30,000 posts? ;-)

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

29. thanks

I think you will win..but *sniff sniff* I downloaded and couldn't get it to play...was it quicktime?

[Wonk]

32. Wow, I just checked & it looks like bpilgrims GFP server is getting just

SLAMMED with traffic at the moment. The file looks good, it may just be too slow to play it streaming?

Anyone out there (Soros? Gates?) feel like helping GFP buy more bandwidth?

http://www.globalfreepress.com/

Click it. Please :-)

[bpilgrim]

100. ------------------------------------------------ MIRROR

http://new.globalfreepress.com/movs/wonk/60min/60Min.IraqFaithBasedIntel.mov
http://new.globalfreepress.com/mp3/wonk/60min/60Min.IraqFaithBasedIntel.mp3

thanks wonk :toast:

peace

[DisgustipatedinCA]

2. I sure hope you're right

I did see Thielmann on Bill Moyers' program several months ago, and he said some pretty damning things at the time. Unfortunately, Moyers isn't considered mainstream. I really hope it breaks loose this time.

For what it's worth, the CNBC crawler was full of Thielmann quotes and Powell rebuttals. I don't watch television very often, and I was very surprised to see that much negative coverage of the administration, even if relegated to the bottom of the screen.

[Wonk]

10. I have mp3 and quicktime versions of that too. Links here.

mp3

49 M quicktime

[RichM]

3. Dear FP - I hope you're right, but have learned to be very wary of such

predictions. Not that this story is in any way deficient... not that it isn't damning... but I'll make you a modest bet that this issue too will dissolve into the ether, in a horrifyingly brief period of time.

There will either be some manufactured diversion, or the media will "strangely" forget to pick up this ball & run with it. We'll soon see...

I mean: there was a war. Everyone saw it. Then there were no WMD. Everyone saw that, too. And NOTHING happened. No one acted as if anything was seriously wrong. No scandal, no reaction whatever. Just Kobe Bryant stories....

[Flying_Pig]

6. Did you have a chance to watch it Rich? I haven't seen anything

so damning since Watergate. This is totally different than anything that has yet appeared against the Bush regime. I am an old cynic, and usually don't get too hopeful about knocking these guys down, but this one was a major blast! If THIS ONE, along with the resulting fallout, doesn't take them down, ...they're not going down, and we're going to be in for way more than an election to rid the nation of them.

[RichM]

12. Nope, I didn't see it. I can probably imagine roughly what it was like,

since I've read about it, & saw Thielmann on Moyers a few months ago.

I'm an old cynic too -- at least, by now! In the last 18 months, I've thought Bush was in real trouble at least 3 or 4 times:

- spring of '02 when the "Bush Knew" story of advance knowledge about 9/11 came out
- summer of '02, with stories about Harken & Bush's insider trading
- this past summer, about Niger & YellowcakeGate
- these last few weeks, with the Valerie Plame story

And the sum total of these things has been almost nothing! And the war itself, with no WMD -- NOTHING! The Michael Meacher article last month in the London Guardian -- NOTHING!

So by now, I've been conditioned, like a Pavlovian dog, to think: "This too shall come to nothing," as soon as a new "should-be" scandal hits. We'll soon see!

[janekat]

85. I know exactly what you're saying...

I've learned not to get my hopes up too much anymore because they always get dashed. I will keep my fingers crossed.

I do think this is our best hope so far since this program is seen by a lot of people.

I'm just disappointed that more people haven't been talking about it today - the day after.

[jiacinto]

5. No there won't be any impeachment

The GOP Controls both Houses. Hoping for impeachment is a pipe dream. Just not going to happen.

[Flying_Pig]

11. Ah yes, Carlos with his ever postitive outlook....

You know Carlos, even the Republicans can take only so much. If they don't take these people down after these reports, they aren't going, and you can welcome yourself to the United Fascist States of America.

I would like to think there are enough moral and patriotic Americans serving in the Congress, that they'll do the right thing. Even thieves have a code of honor, and Bush broke the #1 Rule, ..."don't get caught".

So let's give it little bit before we poo-poo the possibility of impeachemnt. No one thought Nixon would be beaten out either...

[BurtWorm]

15. Thieves' Honor

if I'm not mistaken is an oxymoron (no Rush pun intended). I mean to say Powell displayed some of it when he chose loyalty to Bush-Cheney rather than to the truth. Thieve's honor is worth shit.

[jafap]

26. what was the guy talking about?

I thought the message was "POWELL" lied to the public. Not Bush lied, Cheney lied, Rumsfeld lied, but "POWELL".
I think this is doing two things -
1) making Powell the fall guy for the Bush administration, and
2) getting rid of Powell so he can be replaced by a hawk like Gingrich or Wolfowitz.

In a few weeks, Bush, the great man of integrity can express outrage and reluctantly demand Powell's resignation.

I am a deliberate pessimist. I never believe the Cowboys are going to lose until the gun sounds.

[Wonk]

27. Powell was following orders from above. nt

[jafap]

34. I know that

and you know that. Bush and Powell know that. But was that the gist of the report, or is Powell being set up to take the fall, and will the American public buy it?

[ElsewheresDaughter]

42. wonk yup Powel always follows orders vietnam/iran contra./false eviedence

to the UN...he is as evil as his master :puke:

[paradisiac]

38. senior administration officials

which to me seems to imply Cheney and his people.

"The main problem was that senior administration officials ... knew what they wanted the intelligence to show. They were really blind and deaf to any kind of countervailing information the intelligence community would produce."

[Bandit]

63. Powell works for Bush* and whether Bush* wants it or not the Buck does

eventually stop in his office. He can say it was every one else's fault just as he's always done but The President is the guy in charge. Kind of makes you shudder doesn't it?

[janekat]

88. Yeah - but he's such a nice likeable guy

we all must make allowances for him. It's all of those bad people around poor George. Remember we have such low expectations for him that it doesn't even matter WHAT he does.

[salin]

71. Piece also showed clips of Bush and Cheney

making claims - long after the information had been discredited. Shows pattern.

[brainshrub]

94. Good point

I agree. Good point. But imagine the poop hitting the fan when he tells everyone Bush told him to do it.

On the other hand, by keeping his mouth shut, he can look forward to a long and lucrative relationship with the Carlyle Group.

[jiacinto]

72. There is no way it is going to happen

The House is not going to impeach ITS OWN PRESIDENT. But assuming it gets to the Senate I doubt that you are going to convince 18-25 Republicans to vote AGAINST THEIR OWN PRESIDENT.

[janekat]

86. The only way things will happen is if the sheeple start to get angry

only THEN will the Pubs feel pressured to do anything about it. Most are only concerned about THEIR party - not their country. They'd sell thier souls in order to keep their seats in congress.

[jiacinto]

92. I really hate that term

nt

[AntiCoup2K4]

51. Republicans helped to boot Nixon, so it's not impossible

Granted, most of them were actually Republicans and not neocon fascists like Tom Delay, so it would definitely be more difficult under the current "leadership" (using the term VERY loosely)

[jiacinto]

73. Yes it is impossible

That was a totally different time.

[Flying_Pig]

78. Yes Carlos, it was a very different time. The media was not nearly

so "compliant". I suppose with all the murders, mysterious "suicides", and the anthrax killer still un-caught, perhaps the media is a bit fearful.

Things like this take time though. Editorial boards are meeting at this very moment, and consultations are taking place. As I said before, unless the media has been completely taken over by the cabal, this story is going blow the doors open. We're talking about a possible constitutional crisis, and the possible removal of the executive branch. Serious stuff, and it won't happen quickly, nor quietly.

[jiacinto]

81. Keep dreaming

Republicans control both Houses. Even if they were allow the articles to leave the committee--which is not going to happen even if Hell freezes over--you would need to get around 30-50 Republicans to have them pass the House. Again you aren't going to find Republicans who ARE WILLING TO VOTE AGAINST THEIR OWN PRESIDENT except maybe for Ron Paul.

And EVEN IF they were to make it to the Senate--the Bengals would play in the Superbowl before that even would happen--you would have to get around 20-25 Republicans to vote to REMOVE Bush. That isn't going to happen. The only Republican who might even considering voting to remove Bush is Lincoln Chaffee, and I doubt that even he would do that.

This whole talk of impeachment is DOA. It just isn't going to happen.

[Flying_Pig]

82. Even though the odds weren't as bad as they are now, there were

many who thought the same during the Watergate era, ....but it did happen. And, it happened only because there were enough honest, moral, Republicans, who voted for the good of the nation. Can't say as there is such a thing anymore as an "honest" and moral" Republican, but there might be enough. We'll see.

[jiacinto]

87. There were enough Democrats in the House

to push the articles forward. Now the Senate may very well have been a different matter. But Democrats were in charge of both branches.

The Republicans control of all of Congress now. They aren't going to impeach Bush.

Again stop dreaming.

[brainshrub]

95. List Honest Moral Republicans Here

Let's see...John McCain springs to mind. He's a man who I disagree with on every issue. But I feel he is a man of integrity who would vote to impeach.

[jiacinto]

96. Ron Paul, maybe Lincoln Chaffee

But that's about it.

[brainshrub]

93. I hate to agree

But I do.

[frank frankly]

7. I like the way you think, FP!

I haven't seen it yet but will watch soon!

[Oilwellian]

8. There's also this....

Posted in LBN:
Senior Federal Prosecutors and F.B.I. Officials Fault Ashcroft Over Leak Inquiry

By DAVID JOHNSTON and ERIC LICHTBLAU

Published: October 16, 2003


WASHINGTON, Oct. 15 — Several senior criminal prosecutors at the Justice Department and top F.B.I. officials have privately criticized Attorney General John Ashcroft for failing to recuse himself or appoint a special prosecutor to investigate the leak of a C.I.A. operative's identity.

The criticism reflects the first sign of dissension in the department and the F.B.I. as the inquiry nears a critical phase. The attorney general must decide whether to convene a grand jury, which could compel White House officials to testify.

The criminal justice officials, who spoke on the condition that they not be identified, represent a cross section of experienced criminal prosecutors and include political supporters of Mr. Ashcroft at the department's headquarters here and at United States attorneys' offices around the country.

The officials said they feared Mr. Ashcroft could be damaged by continuing accusations that as an attorney general with a long career in Republican partisan politics, he could not credibly lead a criminal investigation that centered on the aides to a Republican president.

more...
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/10/16/politics/16LEAK.html?ex=1066881600&en=277308137d5d28b2&ei=5062&partner=GOOGLE

And let's not forget the 911 Commission getting testy and calling for subpoenas on the FAA as well.

[Flying_Pig]

17. Damn! The pot is bubbling with good news tonight!!

Brings to mind the song, "Ridin' Shotgun Down The Avalanche". The snowballs are rolling, and with luck, the mountainside will soon give way...

[janekat]

89. Uh-oh now the fbi's piling on....

this could be trouble...

[BurtWorm]

9. Amazing how the incompetence and rotten judgment of Powell

and every other "grownup" and "consummate professional" in this administration is so painfully evident. Isn't it clear that Powell, knowing full well he was being asked to spew bullshit at the UN, when faced with the single-mindedness of his bosses' hard-ons for war and apparently thorough self-delusion about the "threat" of Iraq, chose to spew that bullshit rather than honorably resign?

[wildwww2]

13. I hope you are correct. Bu$h Inc.`s neglect of our country is a crime.

Even if the moron had been elected and not appointed by his conflict of interest ridden pals on the supreme court. We would still need to start digging ourselves out of our own graves. As I said in the title. I hope you are correct and they impeach this lying weasel along with Unca Dickey poo. Because with the continued neglect by our court appointed leader. This country will be hated by the world more than it is now. And the rest of the world may turn against us. Dumbya Bu$h`s "Kill Them All In The Name Of The Lord" attitude sure is becoming old and tired.
Peace
Wildman
Al Gore is My President

[madfloridian]

16. It was powerful. It won't go away.

I taped it so we will remember.

[FrenchieCat]

18. I hope that it will stick....

I've grown wary. It seems like just when you got them where they should be, shit happens...and the radar grows dim!

If it sticks, then HALLELUYA, HELLLLLLEEEELLLLLUUUUUUYYYYYYYYYAAAAAAA!!

[mahatmakanejeeves]

19. While some watched games, America shook tonight, ..the dam broke!

>>
Here's a link to the 60 Minutes II Piece. Enjoy!!:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/10/14/60II/main577975.shtml
<<

From that link:

>>
Houston Wood was a consultant who worked on the Oak Ridge analysis of the tubes. He watched Powell’s speech, too.

“I guess I was angry, that’s the best way to describe my emotions. I was angry at that,” says Wood, who is among the world’s authorities on uranium enrichment by centrifuge. He found the tubes couldn’t be what the CIA thought they were. They were too heavy, three times too thick and certain to leak.
....

“I thought when I read that there must be some other tubes that people were talking about. I just was flabbergasted that people were still pushing that those might be centrifuges,” says Wood, who reached his conclusion back in 2001. “It didn’t make any sense to me.”

The New York Times reported that senior administration officials insisted the tubes were for an atom-bomb program.

“Science was not pushing this forward. Scientists had made their determination their evaluation and now we didn’t know what was happening,” says Wood.
....

“Most experts are located at Oak Ridge and that was not the position there,” says Wood, who claims he doesn’t know anyone in academia or foreign government who would disagree with his appraisal. “I don’t know a single one anywhere.”
<<

I'm sorry I missed that, though it will surely be rerun. I took a course in differential equations from Houston Wood. He's hardly a radical.

http://www.mae.virginia.edu/faculty/wood.htm

[Flying_Pig]

21. No need to wait. See Post#10 on this thread....

There are MP3 and Quicktime links. If you've got quicktime, or are set up for MP#, you can watch it right now. At the CBS site, one should be able to watch it with Real Player too. If it's not up now, it probably will be soon.

BTW, welcome to DU!

:hi:

[FlemingsGhost]

20. It doesn't matter. America doesn't want to know.

This country is dead.

[Flying_Pig]

22. Watch the video, and get cheered up. This is the one that is going

to wake the country up from its stupor ....

On edit: I was around and involved in politics during the Watergate era. The country was in a deep, nasty, funk, thinking the war-mongers and fascists had won. We marched, were beaten, we had Countelpro, and things were I think, worse than they are now.

It took a couple of brave reporters to wake the country up. Scott Pelley will be considered the Bernstein of his time. This brave man, is one of the few willing to see the truth is told. There will be more like him now. A lot more. The avalanche has started....

:thumbsup:

[FlemingsGhost]

25. Back in your day, they had an assembalance of a "free press."

The GOP mafia learned from that mistake, and now have their bases covered.

I admire your enthusiasm, however.

[jeffreyi]

74. G_d I hope so!

Just watched the video via the link. Yeah, we heard it before, but it was preaching to the choir. The "primetime" treatment on a popular program is a new development, though, and perhaps is significant; maybe others will sniff the blood in the water and glide on over to see if they can get a bite. Maybe, just maybe, the titanic is turning around a little bit. If it isn't, with all this coming out now, I agree, we're too dumbed down as a culture to care anymore.

[niyad]

23. so now the question is not, "when are they going to impeach

this whole criminal bunch", but rather, "when is the next staged "emergency" coming to take everyone's attention away from the latest scandal?

[janekat]

90. Just hope there's no more shark attacks down here in Florida....

that will blow EVERYTHING else off the tube.

[Flying_Pig]

28. Just finished Koppel on Nightline ... He was brilliant! He tore the

Bush White House Communications Director a new a**hole!! Unbelievable! Ted just hammered, and hammered this guy. He lied through his teeth, gave canned answers, and looked like a freakin' idiot.

The big news though, is that Koppel didn't hesitate one bit going after this guy. They have lost their hold on the media, and now it's PAYBACK time!!! Jeehz! First the 60 Minutes II report, and then Koppel. Powerful.

No one but the most demented, fascist, right-wing Bushbot could possibly continue to support this mis-administration after watching those two reports! No one.

It's going to be a wonderful day tomorrow....

[Pastiche423]

36. I loved when Ted

would not back down about statements made earlier by the whistler assers about the cost of the war, etc. Bartlett tried to say they Ted was mistaken. Ted said, no again and again.

In his final statement, Ted said, what needs to be done, is to level w/the people. If the admin had leveled in the 1st place, it would be much easier for the people to believe the good, as well as the bad.

That's the toughest I have seen Ted in a very long while.

*Newest key repug word - filter*

[KoKo]

43. I dunno FP, I got up this a.m. and CNN/MSNBC were whoring as usual, and I

haven't heard of any Newpapers blasting headlines about "Powell Lied" and "Soldiers Died." If I had seen the interview I would be as pumped up as you and the other folks who saw it. But, unfortunately I've gotten too pumped up before and nothing has come of it. I purposely skipped the 60 Minutes expose, because my nerves couldn't handle it. I thought last weeks "Frontline" would cause a stir and nothing happened.

Instead we have Gephardt and Lieberman up on the Hill supporting Bush to give him all the money he wants for Iraq? I begin to think the Mdia is just "covering their butts" with this. What most Americans here is the cables. And, they've been silenced with Bush's threats last week.

Still, one hopes, and hopes, and hopes.

[Ladyhawk]

84. Do we have a video of Koppel as well?

?

[dfong63]

31. nice to see that fucking liar colin powell squirm

[Unknown Known]

33. There are other things going on with Blair and Putin

This is important - Blair is making signs of joining EU

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2003/10/16/nque16.xml&sSheet=/news/2003/10/16/ixnewstop.html

http://news.ft.com/servlet/ContentServer?pagename=FT.com/StoryFT/FullStory&c=StoryFT&cid=1059480623454&p=1012571727085

and Russia delayed on its vote tonight at the UN -

But as council members filed in for a formal meeting, Moscow's U.N. ambassador, Sergei Lavrov, told reporters that no vote could be taken until his president, Vladimir Putin, conferred by telephone early on Thursday with French President Jacques Chirac and German Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder.

And more than anything, I'm worried that Cheney is going to give the go-ahead for Israel to attack Syria and/or Iran.

[William Seger]

35. I think you're right; this is big

I can't see how this could possibly stop at Powell. If the mainstream media has decided that Powell's duplicity in this mess is a good story, then there are some really good stories waiting for them to "discover".

[newyawker99]

77. Hi William Seger!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[imax2268]

37. Right on man...

I slept through both shows(graveyard shifts)...but thanks to Wonk...:toast:...was able to catch up...

I'm thinking to myself that this is a bombshell against BushCo...especially Powell...and here all this time I thought he was the more diplomatic of all the crooks...I guess I was wrong...

I just can't believe that anyone would still support BushCo with all the confusion and lack of cordination that this administration is showing...I mean...who the hell is in control...?

I hope this goes somewhere now that some major news programs have put this out to the public...I for one am going to post Wonks links to every message boards I can...

864304

[quaker bill]

39. This stuff has been out there for a while.

I hope it takes this time. Frog march the whole mess of them out of the WH.

[SpaceCatMeetsMars]

41. Watching that last night reminded me about Tenet sitting behind Powell and

making those weird faces. Since you could safely assume that the head of the CIA knows a little something about controlling his facial expressions, it made me wonder the first time I watched it, why he was making such strange faces. Is it possible he was ordered to sit behind Powell to back up his assertions, but was sort of trying to separate himself from all the flimsy evidence with the facial expressions?

He looked like he was trying to say "I'm not really here, you know." He looked like he was undercutting Powell, to me. Did anyone else notice this?

Also, Powell wasn't all that convincing either. It's like, if there had really been strong evidence, Powell would have sounded more like he believed what he was saying and Tenet would have been looking at him like he supported him, not like he wanted to disappear.

[KoKo]

44. Calamity I saw that also! He was grimacing and showing alot of expression

for someone who I imagine would be trained to keep a "poker face," considering his position. I thought it odd at the time also. One of those visuals that stick in your mind, because they seem out of context.

[SpaceCatMeetsMars]

46. When I first watched it, I thought that

if I were a client and they were trying to make a presentation to sell me some kind of product, I would think, "The salesman doesn't really believe in his product and his colleague, by his expressions, seems to think it stinks!"

[Liberal_Andy]

45. one for the impeachment file!

thanks, f-pig!

[Postman]

47. (Grabbing Flying Pig by the shoulders and shaking him)......

wake up man ! Your dreaming, your dreaming....calls for impeachment? From whom? A handful of reputable and upstanding Democrats? I wish it were true...The nazi Republicans have to do that. Do you see ANY of them breaking away from the nazi stranglehold they have on their own party? I don't. As long as there are apologists like Tom Delay and Porter Goss and Pat Roberts running cover for the lies, it isn't gonna happen...Sometimes I wonder - what will it take to remove these fascists?

[Flying_Pig]

69. Shaken, but not stirred.... (:

Let's see what happens this week .... Bush can only keep his finger in the dike for so long...

[leftchick]

48. k...it is morning and I am watching EVERY channel...

I saw that extraordinary piece on 60 minutes last night. It was truly wonderful, investigative journalism of the likes I have not seen in forever. So this morning I go through nbc,abc,msrnc,cnn, and even fucking cbs is not covering it!!! I did hear two callers on cspan bring it up. I did hear kobe,sperm,blood,sex,kobe,kobe,kobe ferry, kobe, sperm, sex..... :puke:
I will wait for the primetime news casts this evening (see, I have not lost hope!) before I drink myself into a stupor.

[imax2268]

50. You know I turned

on CNN last night to see if it would be covered...nothing...except for that Blonde ditz(no offense to all blondes)from Court TV hosting Larry King and talking about the Kobe Bryant case...from the sound of it she is hopeing that Kobe is guilty...

[Flying_Pig]

56. Like you, I am watching the morning news shows. It's Kobe all the

time.... It's so disgusting, I can't stand it. Am going to get the newspapers in a few minutes, and I'll see what they've got to say.

If after the 60 Minutes II report last night, and Koppel's brilliant attack, the media ignores the emerging story here, we will have truly entered bizarro Orwellian-fascist world.

When stories like this came out during Watergate, the county's attention was totally focused, and people were glued to their TV's, watching justice unfold. Of course, we didn't have such such a whore media, and ....Kobe.

But, if the complicit media tries to kill this story, we may as well (as I wrote to Carlos) change the name of this country to the United Fascist States of America . If the rest of the media tries to choke this, our next step would be to make some type of overwhelming protest directed at the media, letting them know we are not going to stand for their complicity and propaganda!

Having said that, it's early (at least here on the West Coast). Let's see what develops through the day. These kinds of stories have a way ebbing and then flowing. I am sure there are many meetings taking place this morning at media headquarters all over, where they are trying to decide how to respond to the story. It cannot be ignored, especially with the internet in full swing, so I expect some will soon take a position, and get with the program. Fingers are crossed...

[Occulus]

68. Instead of the

United Fascist States of America, How about.....



...the American Federal Empire?

Has a nice ring to it.....

[tom_paine]

97. That's Amerika.

America with a 'c' should refer to the Old American Republic (July 4, 1776-Dec. 12th, 2000)

We like in Imperial Amerika.

With a 'k'.

Just my 2 cents.

[nostamj]

49. Powell: "Nonsense" - links

check out this thread and this story for more on 60 Minutes story and Powell reaction...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=539938

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/afp/20031016/pl_afp/us_iraq_powell&cid=1521&ncid=1480

WASHINGTON (AFP) - US Secretary of State Colin Powell (news - web sites) dismissed as "nonsense" criticism from a former aide who accused him of misleading the American people by exaggerating the threat posed by Iraq (news - web sites).

Powell said the criticism -- from Greg Thielmann, a State Department weapons analyst who resigned last year -- was the opinion of just one person and did not reflect the overall judgement of various US intelligence agencies.

"That's nonsense," Powell said of Thielmann, who told CBS television that the secretary had overstated Saddam Hussein (news - web sites)'s weapons of mass destruction capabilities when he made the US case for war against Iraq before the UN Security Council in February.

[Eloriel]

52. People, people

Before you get too excited, I would strongly encourage you to go READ Powell's speech to the U.N. Don't have the link, but it's easily found.

Read it very carefully, as if you were a prosecutor looking for lies. What I think you'll see, especially clear in the 2nd half of the speech, is carefully crafted statements that basically say, "This is what they had, and they haven't shown us they don't have it any more." Or, "This is what we knew, and we have no reason to believe otherwise now."

Someone check it out and see if I'm not correct here.

Eloriel

[tarheel]

57. Here it is Eloriel

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2003/02/20030205-1.html


Don't have time to read the entire thing right now, but thought someone might want to take a look at it. It is a release from the White House, but I think it is a verbatim transcript none the less.

[TNOE]

53. Great Thread

here's to hoping!

[NicoleM]

54. Here's what I don't get.

This had the potential to be the biggest story that CBS has covered in a long time. Why did they put it on 60 Minutes II, against baseball? If they had run on the regular 60 Minutes, they could have promo'd the hell out of it during football on Sunday. That would have gotten a lot more attention.

Why did they air it on 60 Minutes II, instead of on one of the highest rated shows on television?

[BurtWorm]

59. Excellent question!

Of course in the TiVo, Web streaming age, it's just a matter of getting it into people's consciousness before you reach a critical mass of viewers, network programmers and news directors be damned.

[NicoleM]

60. Yeah but

most people don't have TiVo. A whole heck of a lot of people watch football on Sunday--some of them are probably people who primarily get their information from Fox News. They might not hear about this from anywhere else. Why not take the opportunity to reach a lot more viewers with this potentially groundbreaking information?

[BurtWorm]

75. You're absolutely right.

But my point is that it's the responsibility of people who have access to this technology to push this toward public consciousness in anyway they know how. The goal is wide, broad and deep public consciousness. How do we get there? Through our Congressional representatives, local media, conversations, etc. Web streaming and the fact that there's a transcript of the interview online is an advantage we can use.

[Flying_Pig]

62. Perhaps they were "dipping their toe in the water", to test the

"temp". Who knows, but I also thought that was bizarre. I do think it was a "test", perhaps to see what the White House counter-response would be, and also to see if the other media companies would join in on the fray, and take some of the heat.

We all need to write CBS and tell them what we thought of the show, and call for them to do more. Likewise, we need to write/call ABC about Koppel. If they don't hear from us, perhaps they will assume no one gives a shit? Let's let them know we DO!!!

[fencesitter]

55. But "The Bachelor" was on...

Why watch a boring news show? This morning the news was about who the guy dumped on last night's episode. Grrr.

[bearfan454]

58. God do I hope you are right !

Impeach him quickly before the election.

[Starpass]

61. Oh boy, I hate to say this........

Sure glad I heard all this great, "going to take the gov down news" here today. Because, yes, as you pointed out, last night was World Series junk night here BUT after a good hour or more of scanning the news on all sorts of networks this a.m. I heard absolutely nothing about what you are talking about. It's been about boob implants, twins and Kobe. I figured "yawn..another slow (slectively slow) news day". Folks, if this is a bomb, it ain't gone off yet on CNN, MSNBC, CNBC, C-Span, ABC, CBS, or NBC this morning. Is this another bomb that has gone off a zillion miles underground and nobody heard the explosion????????

[RichM]

64. Sorry, folks, the "scandal" is over. It lived for less than 12 hrs.

It was nice while it lasted.

[Flying_Pig]

67. I'm not so sure Rich. See Post #65 on this thread....

They are trying to figure out how to deal with this. It's as explosive as a story can get, and I did not expect it to come to full blossom in just 12 hours. Let's talk in a week, and see where we are, ... you old cynic!

On edit: Bookmark this puppy Rich. I'll bet you a beer in the Lounge, this explodes. Deal?

[RichM]

70. * chuckle * -- Okay, we're on for the bet of a beer --

though we should set a time frame for it. Do you want to say one week from today, or one month, or what?

I'll be happy to lose the bet....

BUT -- what's really at issue here is the stability of the US ruling class, & the role that the media plays in maintaining it. I have learned (or so I believe) that the media operates primarily to maintain that stability -- not to challenge it. Thus, it doesn't even matter what the truth is -- only the spin matters. And the media will not be part of toppling Bush. If he gets in serious trouble, they will actively protect him.

He stole the election in broad daylight -- & got away with it.

He bombed Iraq & there were no WMD -- the whole world saw it, & he got away with that too.

So from my jaded POV, it's a pretty good bet that he'll survive this too. :-(

[Flying_Pig]

76. OK, let's give it two weeks. That will give the editorial boards and

media executives enough time to figure out how to handle what will become this generation's Watergate. Having been a reporter, editor, and publisher, I know what is going on right now. Phone-lines are burning, the networks are all watching each other to see if the story gains traction, and what kind of response the WH will give. This isn't quite "drip, drip". The "dam" was breeched last night, and all kinds of "patching" and discussions about what to do about it, will ensue.

See you in two weeks... :hi:

[Flying_Pig]

65. Starpass, the largest of avalanches starts with a tiny kernel of snow,

unseen, and unheard.

what I saw last night was so reminicent of Watergate. The early reports on Watergate were met with disinterest too, as the media scrambled to figure out a way to handle it. We must rememeber, that this is SERIOUS SHIT. So serious, it could lead to a constitutional crisis, and the forced removal of our executive branch.

I think before the media is going to be willing to open the floodgates, it is calling in the lawyers, and all their executives, to discuss how to proceed. We're talking history making news, shown properly, and truthfully, news that will bring down this regime. If I were still in the business, I would be sweating bullets over how to proceed with this story. The media response, or lack of it, will be a gauge as to the state of our democracy. I pray they chose the right path.

[maggrwaggr]

99. HA! The "state of our democracy" is BAD BAD BAD

because the media just doesn't care.

Kobe Kobe Kobe. Co-joined twins. ANYTHING, and I mean ANYTHING but this.

[cthrumatrix]

66. Some of this rhetoric was on Frontline the other week....it'sthere

but the press doesn't really talk about this or investigate anyomre....we have lost our media.

[Seneca]

80. you are correct

This thread is just the latest version of "Bush is toast!" to come down the pike.

[WHAT]

79. If nothing else,...

it serves as an example of elegance in journalism. Because the thinking was refined, the presentation was subtle but powerful. Compare to most television journalism that is about as appealing as a mud-slick (the thinking is muddied and the presentation is slick).

I wish this had been on earlier for the high-school kids. Most of the younger people I know make fun of the news and are attracted to the news parodies because there is more wit and truth in those types of programs. The news was not an object of disgust when I was young...now, it seems an oblique, willful vehicle for sham and advertisement.

Unless more programs of this calibre are presented, people will continue to discard and tune-out news programs.

[Flying_Pig]

83. Go here to write 60 Min. II & Nightline, & watch Koppel's piece!

Also, here's the addy to watch Koppel's piece. It is a must see!!! http://abcnews.go.com/Sections/Nightline/

We need to write these brave pioneers, and support their efforts to expose the Bush regime. Please take a moment and write them.

Write 60 Minutes II here: [e-mail]

Write Ted Koppel here: http://abcnews.go.com/sections/nightline/Nightline/Nightline_email_form.html

[LiberalUprising]

91. kick

nt

[brainshrub]

98. Rush Knew!

Okay y'all! Get out your tin-foil hats, because I feel like proposing a groundless conspiracy theory:

Rush Limbaugh knew this was going to happen! So he made up this excuse to bow out for a few weeks. Maybe he does have a drug problem, but now's an awful convent excuse.

Do I belive this? No. But it's a fun thought.