"It doesn't matter how we got there...only what we do now" ?

[kentuck]

We hear this argument all the time. It doesn't matter if Saddam did not have WMDs. We are there now and we can't withdraw. We have to win the war. We can't leave the Iraqis to fend for themselves. There is no sense in criticizing the war. We are there now and and we have to win. End of argument.

But is that the end of the argument? Should no one be held responsible for such a tragic mistake? Now that the mistake has been made, we have no choice but to continue to trudge thru the darkness? Since we are stuck in a quagmire, we are disqualified from holding anyone responsible? I don't buy that argument.

We made a terrible mistake from which we must extricate ourselves. Those that led us into this "blunder" should not escape in the confusion. They should be held responsible.

[spanone]

1. I disagree strongly with that logic...Kennedy's dead, what does it matter?

same logic.

[kentuck]

3. How is that the same logic?

explain..

[spanone]

8. Here's what I meant...

I mean that the logic that 'it doesn't matter how we got there' is wrong. It would be the same as saying, well 'Kennedy's dead so what does it matter HOW he died'. It DOES matter.
If we were 'lied to war' we had best hope it matters, so those who we vote into office in the future know they will be held accountable.

[kansasblue]

2. It matters because uncorrected 'it' will be how we get in the next war.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

4. I hear that too. I always say

"That's what I'm trying to do. I'm trying to make sure that today, and tomorrow can turn out better than yesterday. But to do so I need to first expose what it was that made it this much of a mess to begin with, in order for policy changes to occur. If those that made such poor decisions are not held to account, then we have not learned the historical lessons necessary to ensure that the policies of tomorrow turn out with a more desirable outcome. I am focused on tomorrow; that's all I care about. But to get there I need to first eradicate the foolishness that got us to today so that it doesn't continue to destroy our hope for tomorrow"

[godai]

5. Ends justify the means? Not with me!

[skipos]

6. While I definitely think it matters how we got there

I think democrats should focus on getting us the hell out of there. Most importantly, it will save American lives. Also, dems need to present themselves as a party with positive solutions, not just complaints.

[kentuck]

7. But is it an admission that it was a mistake ?

That they did not find WMDs but we have to stay now? Should anyone be held responsible for that "mistake"?

[skipos]

9. Should anyone be held responsible for that mistake?

Hell yes. I just think the priority for dems should be getting troops out.

Would anyone have wanted an investigation into how 9-11 happened *while the towers are burning and lives can be saved*? Of course not. Prioritize saving lives, when that is done, prioritize an investigation.

And again, there is no need to build dems image as complainers without solutions.

[Crunchy Frog]

12. We need to do both.

We need to hold those people accountable who got us into this disastrous war, and we need to learn exactly what happened so that it will never happen again.

we also need to figure out how to get the hell out. The two are not mutually exclusive. In fact, they probably complement one another.

Holding people accountable for crimes is not just about "complaints". Or maybe we should stop prosecuting murders too and just focus on helping the victims, so it won't look like we're being negative.

[skipos]

16. I am all about doing both. Notice I used the word "focus." nt

[Crunchy Frog]

10. "Let's not bicker and argue about who killed who."

Where is Monty Python when you need them?

[guruoo]

15. Shrubbery

http://www.vdands.com/sounds/monty_python/Monty%20Python%20&%20The%20Holy%20Grail%20-The%20Bridge%20Of%20Death.mp3

[seabeyond]

11. lets skip the how we got there. let us look at now. and how bushco

has inevitable fucked it up time and time and time again. in the NOW bush is accomplishing nothing, as he started not accomplishing things a couple years ago. how long in the NOW are we going to allow bush incompetence for soldier and innocent iraqi's death

i can easily argue the now with any war supporter

[Marr]

13. Those are the same people that said protesters should be ignored.

I wish someone on television would flatly respond that way. They said the people who questioned the Bush Admin.'s argument for invading Iraq should be ignored. They were, and we got the Iraq disaster. Why listen to these idiots anymore? They obviously don't know what they're talking about, so perhaps the pro-invasion people should be ignored.

[housewolf]

14. It's kind of like when you spouse/partner betrays you...

and as much as they want to "move on" from the event, for many it's impossible until a certain atonement and/or understanding enables the one who was betrayed to re-open their heart and mind to the betrayer.

As long as the betrayer continues on a couse of denial of culpability, disregard for the harm caused to another, and refusal to atone for the hurt they caused, a wall exists between the partners that cannot be overcome. It is only after the betrayer is willing to become vulnerable to the other, fully see and accept accountablity for the damage his/her actions caused and be truly repentent for such such hurt and be willing to make amends of some sort, can hearts be mended and both partners move forward together.

Much of the nation has been acting like a betrayed partner, sitting in denial for a period of time that a betrayal has occured, traumatized by the events of 911, trusting its leaders. It's taken a long time for the truth to become so evident that it could no longer be denied. Now we are asking all the self-analysis type questions of what went wrong? how did we get here? what did I/we do wrong? why did he/she do it? etc.

This administration betrayed the nation through the process of ignoring or mis-interpreting the intelligence leading to the war in Iraq. As long as they remain stone-faced in denial of the harm they have caused to the heart of the nation, refusing to admit a mistake, the nation cannot move past it.

That's why the issue of "how we got there" matters - because it was a betrayal that has severely harmed the heart of the nation.