American deaths may pull U.S. into Israel/Palestine conflict

[NNN0LHI]

http://www.sltrib.com/2003/Oct/10162003/nation_w/102345.asp

WASHINGTON -- Palestinian leaders' failure to clamp down on terrorists led to the deadly attack on a U.S. diplomatic convoy that killed three Americans in Gaza, President Bush said Wednesday.

Several hundred American citizens who live in the predominantly Palestinian area were advised by the U.S. Embassy in Tel Aviv to depart.

Also, Secretary of State Colin Powell pointedly told Palestinian Prime Minister Ahmed Qureia when Qureia telephoned with condolences that the Bush administration could not move forward on establishing a Palestinian state unless violence and terrorism were eliminated.

"When he condemned what happened, I made it clear to him that the only way forward is for him to get sufficient political authority to deal with this crisis in the Palestinian community, to gain control of all the security forces of the Palestinian Authority and to use those forces to go after terrorism," Powell said at a news conference.

more

[Brucey]

1. But, Colin, they ARE going after terrorists,

they're killing Americans, aren't they?

[bryant69]

2. This is why Democrats are screwed

"Hey killing Americans is fine by me. After all Americans are the real terrorists in the world."

Yep.

[Classical_Liberal]

6. What official dem has ever said that

There is no check of voter registration here. Their is also a liberal attitude toward non dem leftests on this board. Could be far left or a freeper for all you know.

[NNN0LHI]

9. Funny that some people can't figure that out for themselves n/t

[bryant69]

11. You could be right

It is wrong to tag the Democratic party with that view point. But,

I've had that argument (America is Evil vs. America is Good) with people on this board before. There are people on this board that don't like America very much, and they aren't freepers pretending to be people. Or if they are they are doing a very good impression.

And while it isn't fair, we do all get tagged with the same stereotype. It's similar to when we accuse republicans of being hypocrites. Is every singel Republican a hypocrite? Probably not. But enough are that it sticks. So when I read these viewpoints, it riles me up. Perhaps more than it should.

[Classical_Liberal]

18. America's foriegn policy since WWII has been a poor one

in my opinion. Heck it probably goes back to the Monroe Doctrine actually. Some leftest unfortunately assume people reading their screeds are privy to knowledge of what happened in Chile and Guatamala and East Timor, and more recently in Venesuela, and it makes them look insane to many people. In the past week in Venesuala the US sponcered coup supporters were caught bombing the government. People who don't know this stuff are by far the majority in this country.

[Brucey]

8. You misunderstood my sarcasm, I think.

I am a pacifist; I am against killing anyone. But the term "terrorist" is seen differently by different groups. Colin Powell and others don't seem to understand that when Americans go around the world bombing brown people that it seems like terrorism to lots of non-Americans, and even to some Americans. There are ways to solve conflicts other than by killing people, looting their lands, destroying their rights, and neglecting civility. Most nations on earth are willing to play fair, if we welcome them and cooperate with them. To divide the world into "us" vs. "them" just causes more trouble. If you look up the official definition of "terrorism" the current US government meets most of the criteria... in Iraq, Afghanistan, Guatanamo Bay, Israel, and in its past actions in Haiti, Panama, Columbia, Chili, etc. It is disingenuous to ask others to stop killing if you're not willing to also. It is madness to kill Palestinians indiscriminantly, invade and occupy their territory, deny them basic services and rights, and then act indignant when they fight back. I repeat: I do not believe in killing, not by anyone, Palestinians, Israelis, Americans, or anyone else. Some perspective would help, however. It is hard not to be cynical and pessimistic when even DUers want to disregard American atrocities and get upset when they are pointed out, although they are often a big part of the mess the world is now in. It is hard not to be cynical and sarcastic when even DUers use patriotism to put down and intimidate free speech. You are suggesting that Democrats don't win races because Democrats view Americans as terrorists. But I have never heard any Democratic candidates, politicians, or officials say that. I am simply reacting with sarcasm to the Kafkaesqe world that Bush and his followers have created, and how they speak so effortlessly about the crimes of others, apparently oblivious to their own criminal actions.

[forgethell]

22. Of course,

if they are not willing to stop killing you, then are you justified in continuing tokill them?? does it work the other way around?? shall we just say, "may the best terrorist win?"

[Tinoire]

12. And just who is your candidate?

Let me guess... someone "strong on Defense" unless of course you're just here to show us the light.

Must... keep... the... world... safe... for... DynCorp's little activities.

[forgethell]

21. This attitude

will not win votes with the sheeple, who, if they mistakenly trust the shepherd, who intends to shear them, at least do not trust the wolf, who intends to kill them.

[Brucey]

25. Terrorism can be stopped with very little killing.

Some years ago we had great success tracking down terrorists (after they had committed crimes) by cooperating with other governments. We also could do a great deal to cut off arms and goods from terrorists if we would make some friends instead of enemies. We can try to stop our own government's terrorist acts by using democracy. If that doesn't work, I do not think we should kill our government leaders. We could arrest them, though. If that doesn't work, we should use the models of Gandhi, King, Eugene McCarthy, and others... civil disobedience, protests, rallies, etc. I think we can win votes by being honest about the history of American aggression and continued killing of innocent civilians. If that doesn't work, then we continue to argue. I do not think it is wise to kill people if they don't vote the way we want (though, there are days...).

[E_Zapata]

3. Christmas in the White House - 3 months early!

Oh boy, a reason to start bombing the sh*t out of Syria!

The neo-cons must be so SURPRISED that US citizens were targets...they couldn't have planned it better themselves (unless, of course, they DID!)

[dand]

4. Does anyone else feel like we are being sucked into

an unwinnable situation? the Repukes are totally owned by AIPAC and we are all just grazing like sheep.

[Classical_Liberal]

5. Palestinians don't govern the west bank

Israel does. It is Israel's responsibility to crack down on terorists. The Palestinians should stop pretending they run any thing and just let that stupid fucker Sharon have the ball.

[leetrisck]

7. Exactly as Richard Pearle

and a few others planned

[paulk]

26. I wonder who was on the other end of that remote controlled bomb

Richard Perle???

[ElsewheresDaughter]

10. "remote device"???...mission accomplished

[mrgorth]

13. Hamas and IJ have denied involvement

anyone think it might be the Mossad?

[AntiCoup2K4]

17. damn right it was Mossad

The terrorists over there usually go out of their way to take responsibility for their actions, or even the actions of others, as long as it gets them "publicity". So it's very uncharacteristic that nobody stepped up and claimed this one.

I seem to remember reading about a neocon convention in Jerusalem in recent days. Perle was definitely there, who else?? Was this a planning meeting for PNAC/AIPAC's next war?

[forgethell]

23. This is opinion.

How about some facts & logic.

[Tinoire]

20. Mossad, DynCorp, CIA, Peace "observers", Advisors...

Nothing new under the sun. Tried but true methods since the beginning of time. Worked in Indochina, Latin America, the Middle East... Why re-invent the wheel?

Can you hear the heavy boots on this one?

American Friends of Likud Condemns Terrorist Attack in Gaza, Says Egypt Bears Responsibility

10/15/03 12:29:00 PM

NEW YORK, Oct. 15 /U.S. Newswire/ -- In a statement released this morning, American Friends of Likud strongly condemned the terrorist attack that killed three U.S. diplomats in the Gaza strip today.

"This outrageous attack falls squarely at the feet of both the Palestinian Authority and the government of Egypt" said Dr. Julio Messer, president of American Friends of Likud. "The Palestinian Authority's responsibility stems from their utter refusal to take any real action against terrorist organizations. This is just another indication of how Palestinian terrorism is not just a threat to Israel, but also to America and the entire west."

<snip>
"We urge the US government to suspend all military aid to Egypt, pending a thorough investigation of today's terrorist attack, and until such time as the Egyptian government undertakes concrete steps to stop the flow of weapons into Gaza and cooperates fully in the global war on terror," said Messer.

http://releases.usnewswire.com/GetRelease.asp?id=124-10152003

---

Good thing we have Sharon clutching Netanyahu's September 12th list and telling us exactly where to find Al-Queda

Sharon Says Al Qaeda Operating in Gaza, Lebanon Dec 5 2002

TEL AVIV - Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon said on Thursday Osama bin Laden's al Qaeda network had established a presence in Palestinian-ruled areas of the Gaza Strip and in Lebanon.

A Palestinian official denied the charge and said Israel was looking for an excuse to invade Gaza, where it often launches raids to hunt militants fighting for independence. Lebanon's prime minister dismissed the allegations as "fraudulent."

Sharon also said he did not necessarily agree with a U.S.-backed call for a Palestinian state by 2005 and officials said he had approved plans to extend a security fence aimed at preventing Palestinian attacks within the Jewish state.

<snip>

Rashid Abu Shbak, chief of Palestinian Preventive Security in Gaza, dismissed Sharon's charges and said Israel knew there were no al Qaeda operatives or cells in the small strip of land Israel occupied in the 1967 Middle East war.

"This is the sort of justification the Israeli leadership is trying to market for the Americans to launch a strike against the Gaza Strip," Abu Shbak said.

<snip>

http://www.bayarea.com/mld/bayarea/4671935.htm

[Loonman]

14. Put US peacekeepers there

It'll piss off Israel.


Bunch of freeloaders, anyway.

[madrchsod]

15. i wonder how the "terrorists"

could set a remote controlled device right next to a israeli checkpoint? were the troops sleeping? watching tv? or turning their heads the other way? sure smells funny

[cprise]

16. What happens when Americans are killed by Israel?

Apparently journalists and peace activists are fair game if its the IDF doing the killing.

In that case, we know that cute widdle Isweal can't always control itself. Perfectly understandable even when they've killed far more people in this conflict. We all know that responsible behavior in the face of violence is only expected of you if you're dirt poor and stateless.

[Aidoneus]

19. we're not involved already?

ridiculously false premise to this--for years we've been directly involved in backing Israel on practically everything, and that's no doubt a very likely motive for whatever happened to the "diplomats".

Something I said yesterday to the prospect of "US getting directly involved"--to do WHAT, exactly? What more damage could we inflict that Israel doesn't already do daily? I get it that US/Israel are pissed that the statist bureaucrats masquerading as the Palestinian leadership aren't total quisling serfs safeguarding the occupation, but what more could be done through the path of violence against the Palestinian people short of loading them up in cattle cars and shipping them off into the desert?

[mmonk]

24. We're already in this conflict,

and have chosen sides. Wake up. Its the new America. No more brokerage for peace. That's why leadership required to bring about peace needs to come from somewhere else or Bush needs to be defeated in the general election.