Venezuela's Chavez to Discount Heating Oil in Boston

[sabra]

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000086&sid=a3i7Jw3mxo8c&refer=latin_america

Venezuela's Chavez to Discount Heating Oil in Boston (Update2)

Nov. 22 (Bloomberg) -- Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez has begun a program of discounted heating fuel sales for low-income customers in Boston, following up on promises to help the poor throughout the Americas.

The fuel will be sold for 60 cents to 80 cents less than prevailing retail prices, according to Felix Rodriguez, president of Citgo Petroleum Corp., the U.S. refining and marketing business owned by Venezuela's state oil company. Citgo will sell 12 million gallons of fuel through two nonprofit groups, he said.

``Oil companies have to help people,'' Rodriguez said at a ceremony in Boston that was carried on state television in Caracas. ``Business isn't our only issue.''

With these sales, Chavez is jumping into a debate that has raged in Washington over what oil companies and the government should do to help consumers hurt by record fuel prices. Chiefs of the biggest U.S. oil companies were asked earlier this month at a Senate hearing to justify their record earnings, and lawmakers have said oil profits should go to fund home heating aid.

[wicket]

1. Bless them all

:kick:

[yellowcanine]

2. You gotta love this guy. He is making Bush look like a putz.

[Akoto]

4. I'm sure that's a large part of his motivation, but ...

If this is how he wants to go about it, more power to him. I'd rather have Chavez make Bush look like a putz than to see a large part of the population freeze to death.

I can tell you one thing, though. If Bush were looking to humiliate a foreign leader, he certainly wouldn't go for something that cut into his profits.

[Greyhound]

36. I do love this, the President of Venezuela is a better President of

amerika than the dimwit we installed. :rofl:

[TheCowsCameHome]

3. Rep. Bill Delahunt (D) Mass. was instrumental in getting this deal.

No Repug would ever relate to the plight of folks having trouble staying warm.

[blm]

7. The whole Mass contingent in congress tried to pass the heating aid bill

several times and the GOPs shot it down in both houses.

This must be a good reason that Citgo is starting in Mass.

Now, of course, the GOPs will portray Mass as Commie Central, as usual.

[Judi Lynn]

12. Thanks for the reminder. People need to know Hugo Chavez didn't

simply pull the idea out of thin air, and run off half cocked to throw cheaper oil around, bent on embarrassing the pResident. They need to give him SOME credit, after all, for a bit of intelligence.

[foflappy]

56. do we really want a foreign government influencing our politics??

I would be really surprised if Delahunt doesn't use this for political gain. And I would be surprised if the republicans do not use it against him.

For those of you who fail to address the topic of a post: Of course the USA as well as every other nation tries to use political influence in others countries to get what they want!

[NanceGreggs]

5. DUH!!!

"... a debate that has raged in Washington over what oil companies and the government should do to help consumers hurt by record fuel prices."

Ya might try LOWERING THE GODDAMNED PRICES!

It's so CRAZY, it just might WORK!

[katinmn]

6. Viva Chavez! And our greedy oil barons would rather see people

freezing to death than give up even 10 % of their profits as one legislator suggested.

[Selatius]

11. It wouldn't be "economically feasible" to give up profits

They would assert those oil profits rightly belong to the owners of the means of production. (The shareholders of the company) They would argue the most efficient allocation of resources should primarily be based upon the model where those who have the ability to pay should be given access. They would say those who cannot afford to pay the prices should be left to face the consequences for their reckless spending habits or failure to attain a job paying adequate wages or the education required for such jobs.

...Because that's the "American way." :sarcasm:

[happydreams]

16. Neo-feudalism is another name for it.

Excellent post.

[MissWaverly]

22. wait a minute

the Iraqi people are dying of thirst, many children are starving,
they are the producers, the American people are freezing and 8 people
burned to death in Baltimore this weekend because they could not afford Oil, you have the producers on one side dying and on the
other side of the fulcrum you have the buyers dying from high prices
but the middlemen are making record profits and claiming this is the
American way, excuse me, I thought that was why these things were
"public utilities" in the old days so they could be regulated.

[warrens]

8. In Yo face, BushCo

That's GOTTA hurt.

[Kagemusha]

9. I await DOJ charges for dumping oil onto the American market.

Bet you'll see it.

[druidity33]

14. yes...

they will find a way to subvert this humanitarian gesture... rest assured.

[Greyhound]

39. I won't be a bit surprised... n/t

[durablend]

60. You can bet * and all the freepers are saying right now

"ALL THOSE BLUE STATE LIEBURAL LOSERS WERE SUPPOSED TO FREEZE TO DEATH G-DDAMMIT!"

[Voltaire99]

10. Chavez showing Bush-lite Dems what economic justice is

Pay attention, Hillary, Kerry, et al: this is leadership with vision and decency. You corporate shills could learn much from Hugo Chavez about serving people and not merely capital.

Which is precisely why I suspect that if you ever regain power, you'll try to destroy him.

[Malva Zebrina]

13. Kerry has attacked Chavez--Hillary wants the war to continue

Biden riding the wave of the war-Lieberman not knowing what to make of Sharon deserting the Lidud party and probably him-and here comes Chavez, who put the finger to Bush, who looked and acted like the clown he is , while attending the summit in Central America. Bush was impotent as a world leader in the recent trip to Central Asia.

Cuba offering medical help during the Katrina disaster, while Bush was clowning and playing a guitar as the people were begging for help and as New Orleans was drowning. Condi buying shoes in NY, but then reconsidered and went to a photo op in Alabama.

It feels like this country is sinking, while the people play with visions of an "intelligent designer" taking over the presidency and ruling--without oil--unless of course we invade another country such as Iraq, steal their oil, kill their people b y the thousands, sacrifice our young in the process, for the profit of Halliburton, Brown and Root. and next? Iran?

[happydreams]

17. Chavez is a threat...

to Neo-liberalism. :hi:

[sarcasmo]

21. Time for Gen Wesley Clark to step up and take charge.

[happydreams]

15. This guy is a true leader. How can anyone call him anything

less?

You go HUGO!!

[catmother]

18. i guess he's not the bad guy they told us about. n/t

[ThePopulist]

19. Good, about time the populist shows Dubya who really stands for the people

This is so funny that we have to have a foreign leader help out our poor this winter when our government is too busy blowing our money on a foreign nation. We need some serious soul searching if we cannot even give our least fortunate the time of day to help keep them warm and alive.

[Clutch Cargo]

20. I haven't decided whether

Chavez is a humanitarian or an opportunist. I'll keep an open mind, but I'm not jumping on his bandwagon quite yet.

[Judi Lynn]

23. Good idea. In the meantime, you might want to educate yourself

by doing a little research until you think you actually have a clue about what's been going on in Venezuela, and the rest of Latin America.

[Clutch Cargo]

30. No need to be snarky Judi Lynn

"educate yourself....until you think you actually have a clue"

Wow, one would think that my opinion was directed specifically at you to warrant a reply such as that!

[matcom]

32. welcome to DU CC

sorry about the above :hi:

[Clutch Cargo]

34. Thanks matcom!

Glad to be here.:)

[matcom]

31. wow Judi that was pretty shitty

way to treat a newbie :eyes:

[foflappy]

51. what is your problem with people who don't

fall for the chavez charm as you have? Chavez is a con man IMHO yes I have researched hi stactics for quite a while and come to a colclusion that differs from yours that does not mean that I have not done research on the matter.

:)

[1932]

52. Setting aside the first part of that post, let's discuss the second:

What are the statistics you've studied?

Let's all engage in an informed debate here. No, "I have my suspicions" or "I'm reserving judgement" -- let's judge. Let's put the evidence on the table and dicuss it.

[foflappy]

57. ok

http://www.indexmundi.com/g/g.aspx?c=ve&v=67

or from wikipedia citing Amnesty Int and Human rights watch

Violations of political freedoms
Human rights organization Amnesty International has, as of December 2004, documented at least 14 deaths and at least 200 wounded during confrontations between anti-Chavez demonstraters and National Guard, police, and other security personnel in February and March 2004. Several reports of ill-treatment and torture at the hands of the Chavez government's security forces have also surfaced. There are reports of slow and inadequate investigations into these abuses, which AI had attributed to the lack of police and judiciary impartiality. The organization also has documented numerous reports of both police brutality and unlawful extrajudicial killings of criminal suspects, as well as intimidation of witnesses to the abuses. Calls by the Inter-American Court of Human Rights on the Chavez government to quell such threats and intimidation have also reportedly not been addressed, and Chávez himself has suggested that some international human rights defenders had intentions of fomenting turmoil and destabilizing the country. These allegations have been reported to result in the endangerment of human rights defenders, including death threats.<9>


Violation of freedom of expression
The Chavez government has been denounced by Human Rights Watch for its passage of legislation that threatens to stifle anti-Chavez criticism and dissent from Venezuelan media. The statements are leveled specifically at restrictive amendments to the Venezuelan Criminal Code that criminalize insults, disrespect, and libelous remarks from the news media aimed at either the president or other government authorities. Severe punishments, including sentences of up to 40 months, are part of the so-called "Law on the Social Responsibility of Radio and Television" personally endorsed by Chavez.<10>

[1932]

58. Do you have details of those

"several reports of torture and ill-treatment"? IIRC they've been discussed here before and, when you get down to the nuts and bolts of these claims, there's no there there.

Also, HRW's LatinAmerica guy has been discussed here before. IIRC, he has connections to the corporate backers of the anti-Chavez groups. Also, I've seen the law to which you're referring. Many countries around the world don't have a different standard for libel for public figures and I believe that this law is just like many other countries' laws: you can't defame politicians and the truth is a defense. I also believe that the criminal punishment is the law's first recourse. You have to disobey a court order, or something like that, before you can go to jail. Just like most countries.

I think the problem with a lot of Chavez detractors is that they don't realize that the internet allows people to research all this stuff. You can't just make claims. The law is on-line and if you don't read Spanish, you can run it through babblefish or whatever and see for yourself. Also, many of these issues have been discussed at DU.

By the way, why do you cite wikipedia but provide a link to something else? I've read the Wikipidia Chavez entries, and I think a lot of Chavez detractors would be angrier at Wikipedia than they are at DU if they're so worried about people saying good things about Chavez.

[1932]

25. What's the opportunity you think he's trying to open for himself?

[Clutch Cargo]

35. Well,

There are plenty of poor people that he could help with oil, and he just happened to pick poor people in the U.S. Was that just happenstance?

Makes for good press, makes for good viral marketing (I'm a marketing professor and often look at things throught a marketing prism), makes smirk look even more foolish, helps to strengthen his position among leaders in S.A.

If you haven't noticed, Chavez is very ,very good at keepng himself in the limelight. He is very good at self-promotion, albeit, it doesn't hurt to have your own national media network to assist you!

Yes, I'm a bit skeptical as to the degree of humanitarianism involved here.

[Balbus]

40. Very observant and a lot of common sense in your post...

But you haven't read one of the DU commandments: "THOU SHALT NOT SPEAK ILL OF CHAVEZ!"

But it is refreshing to read stuff from outside the chamber. Welcome :toast:

[Judi Lynn]

41. If you had taken the time to read post #3, you would have noted

Democratic Rep. William Delahunt was instrumental in securing this oil plan for Massachusetts:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x5436817#5436821

U.S. Rep. William Delahunt, who helped broker the deal, called the agreement "an expression of humanitarianism at its very best," and rejected criticism that the move was motivated by politics. Chavez often blames the plight of the poor on unbridled capitalism and had criticized U.S. President George W. Bush's government for failing to reduce poverty.
(snip)

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/10157028/

Massachusetts congressman William Delahunt explained that there was a “desperate need” for affordable home heating oil that would not be met by state or federal governments’.
(snip)

http://www.opednews.com/articles/opedne_mike_whi_051121_hugo_chavez_and_the_.htm

Posted by jon petitt in Food , Miscellaneous | Link | Comments (0)
Mmmmm, Tasty Foreign Oil
Tenth MA District U.S. Representative William Delahunt helped broker a deal with Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez to bring 12 million gallons of home heating oil to low income residents and charities in the Bay State. Our friend Paul over at A Blog Soup was quick to point out the Boston Globe report on this deal. Delahunt, working with Citizens Energy Corporation, secured a 40% discount on the 12 million gallons of oil arriving in Massachusetts over the next four months from Venezuela. The discounted oil is earmarked for use by charities and the state's poor.
(snip)

http://www.bostonist.com/

CHAVEZ PROVIDES THOUSANDS IN MASSACHUSETTS WITH CHEAPER OIL

MICHAEL LEVENSON AND SUSAN MILLIGAN, BOSTON GLOBE - A subsidiary of the Venezuelan national oil company will ship 12 million gallons of discounted home-heating oil to local charities and 45,000 low-income families in Massachusetts next month under a deal arranged by US Representative William D. Delahunt, a local nonprofit energy corporation, and Venezuela's president, White House critic Hugo Chavez. The approximately $9 million deal will bring nine million gallons of oil to families and three million gallons to institutions that serve the poor, such as homeless shelters, said officials from Citizens Energy Corp., which is signing the contract. Families would pay about $276 for a 200-gallon shipment, a savings of about $184 and enough to last about three weeks.
(snip)

http://prorev.com/2005/11/chavez-provides-thousands-in.htm

~snip~The contract is to be signed Tuesday by officials from Citizens Energy, based in Boston, and CITGO, a Houston-based subsidiary of Petróleos de Venezuela SA. The contract was arranged after months of talks between Delahunt, a Quincy Democrat active in Latin American affairs, and Chávez, a leftist former paratrooper and fierce critic of the Bush administration.

''We recognized that we had an opportunity," Delahunt's spokesman, Steve Schwadron, said yesterday.
(snip)

http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2005/11/20/thousands_in_mass_to_get_cheaper_oil/

[Clutch Cargo]

43. Have I somehow personally offended you?

"If you had taken the time to read post #3..."

In fact, I did take the time to read it. Having done so, does that mean I have to infer the same conclusion to intent as you did?

It doesn't change the possibility that Chavez saw Boston's need and plea for oil as an opportunity to capitalize on their desperate situation.

He may very well be doing a good deed for opportunistic reasons.

Politicians are known for doing that.

To me, he is President Chavez, not Saint Chavez, and, I am still undecided as to his motives.

[Bridget Burke]

46. Is doing a good deed for opportunistic reasons....

Worse than doing many bad deeds with the same motivation?

Since you come from the Academic world, I'm sure you will welcome intellectual discussions. Being easily offended does not make up for lack of preparation.

[1932]

47. "Doing good for opportunistic reasons"

You're upset with the phrase "if you had taken time to read..." right?

Ok, what does "doing good for opportunistic reasons" imply?

It sounds like it's trying to turn "doing good" into a perjorative. What is (perjoratively) opportunistic about consistently doing good?

Isn't the perjorative element of "opportunism" that it benefits the person acting out of proportion to the general benefit? Or maybe, the problem with opporunism is that it is guided by benefit to one's self rather than by consistent principle, but that measure doesn't even capture what is going on here, becuase it has been the consistent principle of the Venezuelan goverment to lift up the poor and to reduce the chaos-producing inequalities of society.

I agree that "saintliness" is not the lens through which to look at any politican, but I think it's an exaggeration to characterize DU overwhelming response to Chavez as doing that. I really think one thing is clear about the Venezuelan goverment is that they are consistently guided by the principle I noted above -- they want to reduce poverty and reduce inequality -- and I think it's fair for DU'ers to look at their CONSISTENT actions through that lens.

[1932]

42. Helping the poor is what leaders should do. Ensuring there isn't

chaos caused by inequality in the country that is your biggest customer sounds like a good thing from EVERY angle (and not just a publicity angle).

And when ever in the history of the world has helping the poor been a thing that put a politician in the limelight?

In the history of the world, a concern for the poor has usually preceded getting removed from office (or getting removed).

[Bridget Burke]

45. Most of the Venezuelan media were against Chavez.

Here's a BBC story showing media response to the short-lived coup of 2002. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/1926983.stm

And Chavez did not "just happen to pick" Massachusetts. A Representative from that state helped set this up--after Republicans indicated there would be no relief this winter. (Check previous messages.)

Politics is not a field for the shy & retiring. Bush has people keeping hims in the limelight--but it only reveals his flaws. He needs NO help to look foolish.

I would prefer a President who played politics by helping poor people rather than killing them. Not just to be "Humanitarian"--but to keep people from hating my country.

[Judi Lynn]

54. Hugo Chavez has put programs in place to help Venezuela's poor

from the very first. His whole focus has been to improve the lot of the vast majority of Venezuelan people who constitute the very, very poor class.

VENEZUELA: The fight on poverty

Stuart Munckton

On June 1, 20,686 people graduated from Mission Ribas, which gives poor Venezuelans their first chance to pass high school. One of the most obvious aspects of Venezuela’s Bolivarian revolution, led by President Hugo Chavez, the social missions are changing the face of Venezuelan society.

Chavez recently announced that Ribas, which provides free education, including food, accommodation and travel, will have its budget increased to US$50 million a month. The vast majority of Mission Ribas graduates have now enrolled in Mission Sucre, which provides university education. By the end of the year, 210,000 will graduate from Ribas.

On the June 12 episode of television program Hello President, Chavez noted the beginning of the second phase of the community health-care program Mission Barrio Adentro and announced plans for the third phase, which will revamp Venezuela’s faltering hospital system.

A February opinion poll released by Datanalysis — a company associated with Chavez’s opponents — found support for Chavez at 70.5%, an increase on the 60% support Chavez received in a August referendum. The reason for the growth can be guessed: Datanalysis found that 73% of the population had benefited from the social missions.
(snip/...)

http://www.greenleft.org.au/back/2005/632/632p19.htm

[AllyCat]

29. An opportunist looks like anyone in Big Oil

Maybe Chavez is part of big oil, but he is trying to do something for others, something the rest of those robber-barons don't do. He offered aid to Katrina victims from Citgo purchases in August/Sept and now this in an effort to keep people warm.

I vote for the former: humanitarian.

[1932]

49. Opportunism means not to be guided by consistent principle, but rather

to be guided by self-interest (which means you don't do the right thing every time, but only when you see that it benefits you).

Since it's hard to find something that Chavez has done that hasn't been guided by consistent principle, I'm not sure how the term "oppotunism" can apply.

[foflappy]

55. well said. but watch your back if you end up not liking chavez

his supporters are quick to shoot you down...I gave up arguing with the chavistas on du...I wish they would go away.....

[1932]

59. Yeah. Watch out. You might get hired by CNN or Fox.

[WannaJumpMyScooter]

24. The Bronx, now Boston? Chavez in 2008!

I love this guy.

[Hyernel]

26. It's like we're a third world country....

...getting aid from a South American benefactor.

We COULD take care of our own, but the corruption at the top sucks all the money up.

At this rate, Ethiopia will be sending us food aid.

Fucking Bush has driven us off a cliff!

[leesa]

27. Winning hearts and minds! THIS is what a Christian looks like folks.

[newswolf56]

28. At last, for the brainwashed American public, undeniable proof...

of the moral and economic superiority of socialism. The possibilities arising from this development are truly breathtaking.

[ComerPerro]

33. Freaking Terrorist. We should take him out.

And, by the way, I wonder when Brother Pat will be giving money from "Operation Blessing" to help the poor (and not just the Christian ones) pay for their heat?

[Greyhound]

37. 75 years ago FDR saved this country from a civil war, 25 years ago

the sheeple OK'd the destruction of the mechanisms that saved us in the name of short-term profits. Now we have foreign leaders doing a better job helping those in need of help here than the politiwhore that are paid to do it.
What the hell is wrong with us? :crazy:

[Just Me]

38. Sadly, Chavez gives more of a damn about our people than BushCo.

Since when is abandoning Americans in need in order to profit the super-rich an American value?

:shrug:

Bless ya', Chavez. Bless ya'!!! O8)

[AllyCat]

44. We get all the media hopping everytime Chavez helps the US

Does he do this for other countries as well? I can see the wisdom of the poster who thought he was protecting his largest market.

Guess if it's a marketing ploy, that's okay. As long as it's a ploy to help people that our own government has abandoned. If that gets him more customers at Citgo, so be it. He sure won over me and my husband. I'd rather Citgo got the money than those crooks who "testifed" on Capitol Hill earlier this month.

[SammyWinstonJack]

48. Maybe he's just trying to make Chimpy look bad Not that Chimpy

needs any help in that direction. Frankly I don't care what his motives are, as long as, like you said "it's a ploy to help people that our own government has abandoned."

[1932]

50. His consistent guiding principle has been to reduce poverty and inequality

I don't think his motivation has anything to do with Bush.

[Judi Lynn]

53. He has seen violent, corrupt, greedy politicians already, hasn't he?

It's not as if _Bush is the first American Republican pResident who has tried to control Latin America.

With any luck, he may be the last for a while, if the hemisphere finally gets the chance to organize. They surely deserve their opportunity to chart their own course by now, considering the interference they've had from previous Republican Presidents.