New Idea on cause of Senator Paul Wellstone crash

[Must_B_Free]

I had a new thought. Another recurring method we see of delivering corpses on demand is the "heart attack" method. (It was quite effective in Iran Contra.)

Rather than an energy weapon targeting the plane, would it have been sufficient to simply give the pilot a heart attack?

Recall that there was a British case where an assassin was equipped with a umbrella that delivered a ricin pill into the victim's leg, so this is not without precedent.

Could the pilot have been sabotaged with a toxin?

What other Bush enemies have had "heart attacks" at fortunate moments?

[jiacinto]

1. Spare me

Like the numerous other conspiracies this is another issue that comes here from time to time. Another baseless conspiracy theory.

Look, Wellstone's death was unfortunate and it was tragic. However, nothing that has come out yet (except for the partisan biases and suspicions of the more extremist members of DU) has shown any proof of malfeaseance of intentional sabatoge.

Screaming "Bush killed Wellstone" without the appropriate proof will only serve to make people making those arguments look like crazy conspiracy theorists. That's the honest reality.

Wellstone's death was indeed a horrible tragedy. But until I see something more than the conspiracy theories that come to DU I will see his death as an unfortunate accident.

[Must_B_Free]

2. Let's be reasonable, Carlos

Surely people who celebrate the death of a person might of had a reason to contribute to his termination.

Screaming "Bush killed Wellstone" without the appropriate proof will only serve to make people making those arguments look like crazy conspiracy theorists. That's the honest reality.

I never claimed the straw man you created. My post was a creativie supposition. You apparently feel threatened by other peoples free thoughts enough to actively try to discourage any such activity.

But why waste effort... I'll save my comments for someone who is not on everyone's "ignore" list. Although it is interesting how you immediately start shadow boxing and trying to see what's not there. Perhaps you need to ask youself a few honest questions.

[Andy_Stephenson]

14. I cannot see Carlo's response as I have him ignored...

But is he calling you a nut? With Carlos...everything just happens.

[MissMarple]

20. Well, Carlos is probably ignoring me, but , I agree with him.

I'm not ruling it in, and I'm not ruling it out. Talking about something like that when it is so speculative can become counter productive. I have put the whole thing on hold. One day light may be shed on this, but until then wild guesses do us no good.

[Deere_John]

5. Just tragically bad luck?

The Wellstone crash was a stroke of very good luck for George Bush. One of his most vocal opponents, a man who had been a thorn in his side, a man who would most likely have won re-election to his senate seat on an unambiguous antiwar platform, and a man who absolutely would have been the nucleus of an effective anti-war movement disappered from the scene. George Bush seems to have them most amazing strokes of luck that just happen to be other people's tragedies, from the 9/11 attacks that sent his popularity soaring to the crash of Flight 587 that pushed the NORC recounts of the 2000 vote tallies off the front pages, to the death of Paul Wellstone.

You can believe that suspicions are just kooky conspiracy theories. Once upon a time there were other kooky conspiracy theories, like 140 Saudis being flown out of the US while civil aviation was grounded in the aftermath of 9/11 (debunked by Snopes, no less) or that the Bush Administration totally lied about the existence of WMDs in Iraq, or that Dick Cheney was still getting money from Halliburton.

I'll be a kook.

[tom_paine]

17. Well said, Deere_John! Welcome to DU!

:toast:

[FloridaPat]

3. There were two pilots with lots of time flying each. Had there

been an emergency, the other could have taken over and contacted someone on the radio. Had anything happened to the pilots, the family could at least have tried to say something on the radio. It's like everything electric went at once. But the rudder and aelions would still be able to be manually used without power. They slowly drifted off course and down.

[Must_B_Free]

6. Right.

so how does "ice on the wings" make the entire electrical system go out at once?

As of yet, I have not heard a plausible explanation for this crash.

What brought it up again was hearing from Jim Hightower about the Minnesota bumper stickers that say "He's dead, get OVER it".

[Deere_John]

9. Cause of the crash

The evidence is way too fragmentary to really come up with an actual cause of the crash. My best guess, based on my limited knowledge of aviation, is that an event of some nature caused both flight crew to become incapacitated several minutes before the crash but did not significantly damage the aircraft.

Given the severity of the impact and post-crash fire and the (entirely legal) absence of a flight data recorder and a cockpit voice recorder, I doubt we'll ever know.

By the way: the absence of a distress call is much overrated. Pilots are trained from birth practically, to fly the airplane first and communicate when the opportunity comes up. The idea is that whoever you call up on the radio is just some guy in a chair somewhere. He can't fix your problem with the plane.

[M_Demo_M]

4. NO WAY would the Republicans

Or any other right wing group kill a Democratic Senator running for reelection.

A lot of the time when a Candidate dies, the dead guy wins due to a sympathy vote.

Look at Carnahan's defeat over Ashcroft in 2000.

It's just that Wellstone's memorial service was viewed as highly
partisan (and the flames were fanned by Fox news and the rest of
the cable news right) which caused an ENORMOUS backlash and
helped bring down Mondale. ( And in my opinion helped fire up the
R's throughout the Country aiding in their takeover of the Senate ).

[Loyal]

7. Good points

I must agree. After seeing what happened with Ashcroft losing to the dead Mel Carnahan in 2000, I would agree with this poster. Karl Rove is NOT stupid, and he would not do something like this. He would be afraid that the sympathy vote would get Wellstone re-elected.

[Must_B_Free]

8. But he's less effective as a dead man.

less of a thorn in the side.

There were articles saying Bush had full time people whose entire job was figuring out how to get rid of Wellstone.

[billbuckhead]

10. 1 more day and Wellstones name would have been on the ballot like Carnahan

Once is bad luck, twice is coincidence, three times is war. Asskroft has been real close to 3 opposition candidates dying in small plane crashes.

[JohnOneillsMemory]

11. Latest good death for Dubya and Dick: LA Times journalist Mark Fineman

Mark Fineman died of an 'apparent heart attack' at age 51 in Baghdad. He was working with retired Air Force Colonel Sam Gardiner on a story detailing over 50 lies spun during the Iraq War to sell it to the American people.

http://216.239.37.104/search?q=cache:2S8aqvssYqIJ:www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/world/la-092303fineman_lat,0,456781.story%3Fcoll%3Dny-top-headlines+mark+fineman+heart+attack&hl=en&ie=UTF-8

[M_Demo_M]

12. Remind me

how many people was it that Clinton had killed again?

Come on, I dislike and distrust Bush IMMENSELY, but
we can't blame him (or credit him) for every bit of luck
that comes his way.

[JohnOneillsMemory]

16. True. But you never know, you know?

That's all I'm sayin' here.

[cliss]

13. If you look at actuary tables,

you will see that there are certain activities which will cause a jump in your insurance premiums. To name a few:
1) cigarette smoking
2) small airplane flying
3) scuba diving
4) ultralight flying
5) parachute jumping, parasailing

The moral of the story is: if you are seen as a trouble maker in the eyes of the Ream-publicans, DO NOT GET INTO A SMALL AIRPLANE. Your life may be at risk. Fly in commercial airlines, be seen out in public, make your life as transparent as possible.

Who's to say they didn't just open the hood the night before take-off and unhook a few wires? Is there anything these men would not do to further their ambitions? Look at their track record.

[rucky]

15. Do not parachute from a small airplane while smoking a cigarette

[MSchreader]

18. ... wearing SCUBA gear

Trying to land on an ultralight.

Martin

[MrPrax]

19. Bit of a stretch...

The umbrella thing...george markov assassination and ricin? overdone...
But from the Memory Bank
A list of odd reports surrounding the crash from the time it happened compiled by Scoop
"The following is a summary of the facts available at this time via the media, surrounding Senator Paul Wellstone's airplane crash of 10-25-02. Judge for yourself, was this more likely an assassination or an accident?"
http://www.scoop.co.nz/mason/stories/HL0210/S00206.htm

And a possible eariler assassination attempt on Wellstone during a tour in Colombia
"HERBICIDE DOUSES U.S. SENATOR
U.S. Sen. Paul Wellstone (D-MN), one of the few senators who opposed a $1.3 billion U.S. aid plan ostensibly directed at Colombia’s drug trade, headed a November 28–30 fact-finding delegation to Colombia. While watching the Colombian National Police demonstrate its fumigation of coca plants, Wellstone and other members of his delegation were hit with a fine spray of the herbicide glyphosate from a helicopter flying less than 200 feet above them. Wellstone reportedly joked about the incident, but delegation member Pamela Costain, executive director of the Minneapolis-based Resource Center of the Americas, was upset: “I’m fearful about what they’re using, and I really didn’t want to get it on me,” she said. "
...snip...
During the November 30 visit to Barrancabermeja, a regional Colombian police commander announced that his officers had foiled an assassination attempt against Wellstone and U.S. ambassador Anne Patterson. A report by Resource Center on the Americas suggested that the timing of the announcement “raised the prospect that the `assassination’ attempt was a ruse intended to disrupt” peace talks between the rebels and the government. The Colombian National Police and the U.S. government quickly denied that the two land mines discovered on November 30 on a highway near Barrancabermeja had any connection to Wellstone’s visit. (Resource Center of the Americas 12/1/00; AP 12/1/00)
http://www.americas.org/news/nir/20001210_herbicide_douses_u_s_senator.asp

Dunno...about heart attack...but as far as conspiracies go...I would put a bet on Global Hawk instead?


Umbrella Man sure gets around

[TrogL]

21. Can't you leave well enough alone?

Stickdog, I'll stay out of it if you will.