The Georgia election machine meeting 10/16/03

[DEMActivist]

Sorry I'm so late reporting in, but I'm just getting home after a very long day.

Dan Wallach is the most entertaining, pleasant man I have met in a very long time. His wit and charm while tearing Diebold to shreds was a joy and FUN! Boy, he dislikes this company AND their product. Doug Jones was excellent as well, but not nearly as entertaining in his presentation - his subject matter is just not light hearted (how to build a secure system).

Some interesting things came out of the presentation today...namely, that Diebold nor the State of Georgia had any one there to rebut anything said. There were probably close to 100 attendees, and not one person was there to defend the machines. This is growing, steady and strong and no one left there feeling good about these machines.

In addition, Hans Klein tells us the Georgia Secretary of State has canceled all the rest of the question and answer sessions (the dog and pony shows) and will not be answering questions on these systems in the future. (I guess they got their ass kicked a time or two too many.)

It was filmed and Hans Klein asked us to help him find someone to clean up some sound problems they had so we'll get on that in the AM.

For now, I'm exhausted but exhilirated! We signed up many new activists, folks desperate to throw these junk machines out of our state.

[GAspnes]

1. way to go!

I'm concerned the election officials are going into hiding though.

Something is afoot. But that doesn't mean you shouldn't keep up the good fight.

[DEMActivist]

6. Actually, you could feel it in the room

We saw a sea change in Georgia today. Instead of 3-5 activists screaming about these machines, we saw 100 heads shaking in disbelief and disgust. Folks walked out of there pissed off! Really pissed off! They realize we've been had.

[dmr]

2. Sounds great

I was just getting ready to call you. I was getting worried.

LOL the meetings have been cancelled! The wimps. I figured this would happen. They are pissed and scared at the same time!

Hope to see the video soon. :)

[DEMActivist]

7. The funniest question....

Dan Wallach had spent about 45 minutes talking about how insecure the machines were, then Doug Jones talked about how to fix them.

Then we submitted questions on index cards and Wallach, Klein and Jones answered them.

Denis' question was: Given your discussion on security, do you think it's healthy or wise to store touchscreen machines in stair wells and/or car trunks as reported by a Georgia elections supervisor?

Dan Wallach (in a deadpan) replied: Well....uh....hummm.....NO! This is NOT good.

The room cracked up.

[dmr]

10. ROFLMAO

Well, see, I'm still wondering whose car trunk they're using! :)

[BeFree]

3. Thanks

So, the rulers want to cut off our questions, eh?

Stupid idiots. We will not be silenced!

[DEMActivist]

14. They sure do....

First, they were furious that we dared to ask them

Then they said we couldn't ask anymore and we did anyway

Then they just quit showing up at any public meetings

Then they canceled any access to them

What's next? Shut off the phones, I guess.

[Occulus]

34. While I'm releived and excited

I'm also very, very concerned.

The officials are now refusing to even show up to answer questions related to the products they purchased with taxpayer dollars? That is not, not, NOT a good development.

[Spazito]

35. Is there any way to establish a group that will host information..

meetings using a panel of people well-versed on the subject, the group could then invite the officials to be part of the panel. I assume the officials would refuse and that, in itself, could be used to raise more questions on what are they hiding. If these information meetings could occur, it would take the control of who calls meetings out of their hands and would require them to come out to defend themselves.

[hang a left]

4. That is gooooooood news. Glad it went well.

[DEMActivist]

16. Me too!

It was a very productive day.

[shirlden]

5. Keep the pressure on.

I had a long conversation a couple of days ago with the woman who is the Ohio election specialist for the League of Women Voters. She was or is a member of the state HAVA committee. She said that the Ga. SOS had representatives here in Ohio during the meetings discussing the implementation of HAVA in Ohio. I told her we believed that the Ohio RFP was an exact duplicate of Georgia's and that Diebold had written it. She said she felt that was probably true.

:kick:

[DEMActivist]

13. Yeah, isn't it nice?

Our tax dollars are paying these folks salary to go sell Diebold voting machines to other states. Somehow I bet we paid the airfare to Ohio, too.

[BevHarris]

18. Here's another great thing about that Georgia meeting

Ohio no doubt is hearing, at least through the grapevine, what they'll be in for if they make an irresponsible purchase.

The election officials aren't responsive to the citizens who pay their salary, but they sure do like to avoid embarrassment!

(What's next? Cut off the phones? Indeed.)

Bev Harris

[Andy_Stephenson]

8. Hey DEMA if you can get me a copy of the Video

I can clean up the audio

[DEMActivist]

9. Thanks, GNBC!

I knew DUers would come through for us. I'll send an email to Hans Klein immediately. Will do the introductions between the 2 of you (privately) and step back so you can help out.

It's much appreciated.

[hedda_foil]

11. FABULOUS!!!

Eloriel called to tell me about it on her way home and I was out doing phone banking, damnit! I can't wait to hear all the details.

You GO girlfriend!!!

[dmr]

12. Ya know

Since the SOS has cancelled her dog and pony show, maybe the citizens of Georgia could hold their own question and answer sessions. Or maybe get on the agenda of the PTA meetings, and so forth.

[mbee]

15. Please send your video to 60 Minutes and Bill Moyers

NOW! MD has the same machines and we need to get this matter straightened out before more election fraud happens in 2004!

[Andy_Stephenson]

17. I can make that connection to Bill

I have his number.

[DEMActivist]

19. It's not "our" video...

It belongs to Georgia Tech. Hopefully, they'll be willing to make it public, but we have no control over it.

Hans Klein did say he would make it available on their web site if they could get the audio straightened out.

[DEMActivist]

20. I have a feeling...

after today, there will be many meetings on these machines.

A lot of players in Georgia's minor parties (Libertarian, Green) were in attendance today. They were not happy.

For all I know, members of the major party were there as well. There were a lot of journalists and activists there as well.

[Eloriel]

21. Okay, if DA can make a report, I guess I can too

I'm so tired I can barely think -- any trip into Atlanta takes 3 hours out of my life driving to and fro, and that alone is draining.

Dan Wallach is a doll. Very droll little sense of humor. Excellent and entertaining speaker. I'll bet he's a favorite at Rice. He had some great slides to accompany his remarks and Prof. Klein said he'd put them up on the website too.

Doug Jones is also quite wonderful -- definitely knows his stuff (well, he's been at it a good while!) and delivered a lot of superb content. It was wonderful meeting him; it felt like a real honor.

Prof. Klein was very welcoming to us (I sat next to him at the last -- and I guess I do mean "last" -- SoS dog and pony show) and we were also in contact since, so we were already acquainted. We had a very nice chat before the meeting about what he teaches at Tech, the Internet and Public Policy Institute which he heads, etc.

Attendance was very good. Unfortunately, it was at an awkward time for people to be able to get away and I know of several people who'd have loved to have been there were it not for their jobs. Attendees seemed quite enthralled and there was a LOT of discussion in groups afterwards for quite a while, and some excellent questions from the audience which the 3 men answered for at least 1/2 hour past the announced ending time.

Prof. Klein invited several of us to join him and Prof. Jones for a drink, and so a large handful of us had yet more thoroughly fascinating discussion on the subject of voting machines.

Wish I could comment more on the content -- I was really relying on everyone being able to LISTEN to it themselves, and it being archived on the WREK website and so didn't even take notes. But perhaps we'll yet get that video presentable.

I think the overriding impression for me is that it was soooo satisfying to hear the subject covered in some depth, quite seriously and professionally, in a public forum without lies and obfuscation to cloud the issue, and in a well-respected university setting to boot. As DA said to me several times, it felt like a real breakthrough. Very, very satisfying. And a darned good time too.

Eloriel

[Bushfire]

22. Thanks for the report.

DA and yourself made us very proud to have you fighting on this side of the bbv issue.

[ParanoidPat]

23. Thanks for the report from the front lines.....

....you folks have made them retreat to their bunkers! :evilgrin:
Now it's time to 'smoke 'em out of their holes'!
Damn I'm proud to share the same Internet with y'all! :hi:

[punpirate]

29. It's not exactly germane to this subject....

... but it's about time to say it. I look at the posts here and elsewhere on this subject, and the women are ones who have been pounding this issue. I mean pounding it.

Let's hear it for the 51-percenters!

Gawd-damn, there are some smart, hard-working women here.

In 1776, all they'd let Betsy Ross do was sew the flag. You folks are doing a helluva good job defending what that flag stands for.

Thank you, thank you, thank you!

:toast:

Cheers.

[DEMActivist]

30. Hey, what can I say....

We're good at that nag, nag, nag thing, ya know? </JOKE>

But, honestly, there are a lot of good men fighting this battle too.

[punpirate]

31. Yeah, but...

... knowing who to nag is where the smarts come in. :P

Cheers.

[Andy_Stephenson]

43. Do I get to be an honorary woman?

huh? Can I huh huh???

[punpirate]

48. Yeah...

... but there's an operation involved. :evilgrin:

Oh, you said, "honorary." My mistake. :P

No, seriously, everyone deserves thanks for pressing the issue. I guess I was thinking about a "Stone Soup" cartoon someone posted the other day, about someone dying, and the obituary read, "raised her four kids by herself, was active in this and that, lobbied her city council for more park space in the city," etc., and then her occupation was listed as "homemaker."

But, you're right, too--protecting democracy is an equal-opportunity job description.

Cheers.

[Adjoran]

24. With all due respect

to the speakers, the real congratulations go to the organizers. Anyone who has ever tried to organize political or public policy issues can tell you, the hardest part is getting people to show up.

Years ago I asked one of my mentors, "What if they come, but they really don't want to be here?"

He said, "I only count asses. You get their butts in the seats, and there is a chance their minds will show up sooner or later. No butts, though, mean no brains."

100 people is an extraordinary turnout for this type of issue, which has to be described as esoteric. If they come, they hear. If they understand anything, they tell two friends, then they tell two friends, and so on and so on and before you know it, more people are either showing up or buying shampoo! {Only the older DUers will get that one, sorry}.

A word of appreciation and encouragement to those in the forefront of this issue: remember that a goal of decommissioning these machines in jurisdictions which have already bought them is a very high standard to set. Human nature leans against admitting a mistake, especially where a lot of money you just spent is involved. But it isn't necessary to do that to win, if you can at least focus some attention on the problems and keep them in the public eye.

As someone once said, "Sunlight is the best disinfectant." Fight the good fight, but be prepared to accept your success if everybody is at least watching for trouble.

[oasis]

25. great work...thanks

[leftchick]

26. great news!

:kick:

[rhite5]

27. I think one of you said reporters were there

If so, that is very encouraging. I want them to hear the truth without the obfuscation stuff they are so fond of focusing on when they write up their "balanced" reports.

[DEMActivist]

28. Poor conflicted AJC reporters

They try so hard to protect Cathy Cox (Secretary of State) as the golden child of Georgia, they can't possibly know what to do with yesterday's meeting.

I haven't seen anything in the paper yet.

[DWright]

32. My report

Hey DemA and Eloriel --- woo hoo! Great to see ya!

I invited Martha Ezzard and/or any representative from AJC, but I don't think anyone attended... Remember, Jay Bookman already told us there is "No Story" here. What a loser.

Here are a few highlights I scribbled down during the meeting:

DAN WALLACH:

It's an issue of "perception vs. reality". The accurate counting of our VOTES must not only APPEAR true, it must BE TRUE.

He discussed the timeline of Bev's findings.

MS Access: "Only trust this to store your recipes."

The password is.... "password". (That got a big laugh and some groans.)

He discussed the findings of the Johns Hopkins Report.

He talked about there being only ONE encrypt key and compared it to GM making every one of their cars with the SAME key. Ludicrous.

He called the source code "amateurish" and "one big hack".

He said when someone tells you "Why are you worried? Everything worked in the last election." your response should be "HOW DO YOU KNOW???"

He called DRE "Faith-based voting." Heh.

DOUG JONES:

Elections = National Security

All certification reports are "confidential". Most are useless.

Diebold's "rebuttal" of the Johns Hopkins report was full of "Yes, but"s... ADMITTING the problem, in essence, and simply making excuses why it's not a big deal (Yeah, right!).

Look at Polling Place Precedures, they are all over the map and need to be standardized.

Example: There is no definition on the books regarding WHEN it's legal to connect to the modem. Precincts can now connect BEFORE printing the reports!

Example 2: Custody chain of the cards is hazy at best.

Example 3: Tamper-proof evidence seals are all but meaningless, as anyone can order them via catalog, and they can match any "official" seal in use.

Random audits are needed. Holt Bill needs to be passed. Fraud with NO TRACKS is most certainly possible.

More as I think of it....

[nostamj]

33. what happened with the radio feed???

there was a lot of static but... it was very interesting. very disappointed when it switched to (horrible) music.


p.s. thanks for the reports!

[DWright]

36. BREAKING!!!

(nostamj: We're not sure. Somehow they just lost the feed. Big disappointment..)

Check this OUT, folks!

EFF Defends Right to Publish Links to Electronic Voting Memos

http://www.infoshop.org/inews/stories.php?story=03/10/16/3842070

San Francisco - Defending the right to link to controversial information about flaws in electronic voting systems, EFF announced today it will defend an Internet Service Provider (ISP) and a news website publisher against claims of indirect copyright infringement from the electronic voting machines' manufacturer.

On October 10, 2003, electronic voting company Diebold, Inc., sent a cease-and-desist letter to the nonprofit Online Policy Group (OPG) ISP demanding that OPG remove a page of links published on an Independent Media Center (IndyMedia) website located on a computer server hosted by OPG.

Diebold sent out dozens of similar notices to ISPs hosting IndyMedia and other websites linking to or publishing copies of Diebold internal memos. OPG is the only ISP so far to resist the takedown demand from Diebold.

"What topic could be more important to our democracy than discussions about the mechanics and legitimacy of electronic voting systems now being introduced nationwide?" said EFF Staff Attorney Wendy Seltzer. "EFF won't stand by as corporations like Diebold chill important online debate by churning out legal notices to ISPs that usually just take down legitimate content rather than face the legal risk." <snip>

[nostamj]

37. "Somehow they just lost the feed" hmmmm.....

notice any Diebold employees with box cutters ???

[DWright]

39. "notice any Diebold employees with box cutters ???"

Heh. Diebold didn't dare show up. Nor could Cathy Cox or any of her serial liars. They were BOTH invited, but just couldn't be bothered (or couldn't stand the prospect of being called on their LIES yet again)...

[Eloriel]

44. I was really glad they weren't represented

It was HEAVEN to have the concerned side get a chance to speak unfettered, wkthout being interrupted, without being shouted down, without having their remarks spun and obfuscated, etc., etc. It was just heaven.

Hi, Denis!! Thanks for your report. I sure wish I'd made notes. Glad you did.

Eloriel

[DEMActivist]

45. Me too!

I've heard the R. Doug Lewis/Cathy Cox/Britian Williams speil enough that I could probably have "played" one of them for the presentation yesterday if they had wanted me to.

[ewagner]

38. Late post

but nevertheless,

Congratulations to all of you who put this together and thanks for your hard work.

:toast:

[Zan_of_Texas]

40. yeah

I listened to that radio music all the way until the end of the appointed time (and yes, it WAS awful!), hoping they would bring back the meeting so we could listen.

So, it sure is reassuring that at a tech university, the technology fails to broadcast the sound. Fortunately, in our great democracy, the technology for actual voting machines could not and would not EVER fail. </sarcasm>

Anyway, I'm anxious to hear the audio or see the video.

Kudos to all you wonderful Georgia activists! These gals and guys have been working so hard, not just for Georgia but for all of us <gotta go, choking up>

[RedEagle]

41. Go Georgia!

Wahoo!!!

If/when/how/where we can get our hands on a copy of that tape, let us know. I've got a whole bunch of educating to do and we need more of this stuff.

"Never give up, never give in, never surrendor."
(Galaxy Quest, did I get that right?)

In other words, head to the grindstone, lots and lots of hard work. Working Americans built this country and it's working Americans who are going to keep it.

On another note, call around the Georgia State offices and see if they have an Executive Ethics Committee or similar beast. The behavior of all of these state officials might need a complaint and investigation or two. Citizen's can't see the contract for equipment their money bought? State officials won't respond or be responsible to the people? Ask for things like financial disclosures. And I hope in Georgia they are required of more than the elected officials. Watch for fees but that's usually postage.

We pay for these systems, let's see if we can use them.

[RedEagle]

42. Georgia's Making Headway

Kicking this back up!

[LonelyLRLiberal]

47. Speaking of paper ballots, is it true Canada uses only paper ballots

and the vote gets counted in a matter of just a few hours? (Seems I remember something about that from the discussions of the 2000 Florida ballot fiasco (read: theft).) Or am I dreaming that?

[Ookie]

46. Good for you

If we don't address corporate ownership of the voting system, we will never have a REAL vote again.