Where Are All the Jewish TV Preachers?

[Beetwasher]

Why is it only fundamentalist christian nutjobs who go on TV weekly begging for money for their personal enrichment? And Jews get a bad rap for being zealots about money? Just a thought.

WASHINGTON (AP) - A senior editor of the New Republic magazine is apologizing for saying in his column that the producers of the hit movie "Kill Bill" are "Jewish executives" who "worship money above all else."

--snip--

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20031017/D7U7U1R80.html

[elfwitch]

1. Rabbis don't "preach"

You don't see it because it is just not our way. Rabbis are primarily paid Torah scholars. The help the congregation learn more about the Torah and themselves. Rabbis also act as socail workers for their congregation and their community. It is rare for you to see a Rabbi up at the bimah condeming everyone without also placing blame on themselves. Good Rabbis know that they are just as human and flawed as evryone else. they look at it like we are all in the contract together and everyone should do their part to help everyone else with the rules and such.

[Mairead]

13. You forgot to mention that Jews don't try to recruit

An important distinction!

[Newcastle]

39. Still,

it would be nice to see Michael Lerner on television more often - and Robertson and Falwell a whole lot less often.

[Classical_Liberal]

2. TV stations were required by the fcc to donate their time

to religious groups for a certain amount of hours a week. In the 60s the fcc ruled that it no longer had to be donated. The locals could just take bids. Well, all the con artist repuke religious groups were at an advantage ofcoarse, and sane local religious people got bumped. That is why we have nutjobs pumping their latest dispensationalist paranoia video like Jack Van Impe and not regular religious people. All major credit cards accepted. This is another thing the next president should change aside from bringing more competition back to the media.

[SlavesandBulldozers]

3. the Great Commission

i believe the answer to your question is in the Great Commission, i believe its called, where Christians are demanded by Christ to "go out and spread the good news". Its kind of like a new commandment that the televangelists think they are following by pumping their worldview over the airwaves, and they see no problem with financing their propaganda with senior's social security checks.

Rabbis have no such directive to convert, and are thus less imposing in their delivery and more open in their interpretation of God's will.

[elfwitch]

4. witnessing

Rabbis are supposed to turn potential converts away three times before allowing them to be brought in to the covenant of Abraham.

[_Jumper_]

5. Why?

?

[elfwitch]

17. historical tradition

Way back during the time of the first Christian Roman Ceasar, converting to Judaism became punishable by death. Death for the convert and for the rabbi. So rabbis wanted to be really sure that people were serious about converting. They would turn them away three times. If after the third try the convert could demonstrate that they were committed enough to rish death, then the rabbi would allow it.

[brainshrub]

53. I did not know that

I think it's a good tradition. We Catholics have a rather long conversion-process ourselves.
It makes for better beleivers.

[denverbill]

11. Isn't part of it a result of all the pograms against Jews over time?

Jews in America today are probably safer than they have ever been in history, but right-wing Christian types would turn on them in a minute if Jews actively started 'recruiting' Christians.

I didn't know til I was in my 20's that it was possible to convert to Judaism. I don't think that's an accident.

There may not be an 'official' state religion in the US, but woe to the person who tries to corrupt Christians from 'the truth'.

[forgethell]

21. sorta like in

Saudi Arabia, say, or many other Muslim countries where conversion from Islam is punished with death??? I think maybe you exagerate. You want to know what else that I think? Well, I'm going to tell you anyway. I quote, "but right-wing Christian types would turn on them in a minute if Jews actively started 'recruiting' Christians." No, they wouldn't. They'd be happy to see the converts go. Then ther'd be less ideological confrontation in the choir.

[denverbill]

40. No, I don't think so.

We're talking the same bunch of nuts that called Jews 'Christ-killers' up til a few years ago when Muslims became the bigger enemy. Hell, they aren't even all that fond of Catholics, or papists, as they call them.

Did you see those people praying at the Ten Commandments courthouse site? How about the rabid guy who was practically popping a vein screaming 'Get your hands off my God' when the workers moved the monument?

How do you think that guy would feel if he learned that some Jewish preacher had converted his son or daughter?

[elfwitch]

41. yep...

thing is the guy would feel really stupid because for his son or daughter to convert, they would have to approach the rabbi (not the other way around). So Mr. Poppinvein would just be worse because he'd know that he had alienated his kids with his rabid behavior.

[forgethell]

55. Sad, distressed, maybe,

but violent? Probability is against it. In any event, being a believing Chirstian is not the same as a violent Isalmist fundamentalist.

[sleipnir]

6. The Jewish people are too smart to be fooled by Televangelists :)

[Classical_Liberal]

7. I guess you have never heard of "Jews for Jesus"

.

[sleipnir]

9. Touche!

[elfwitch]

18. "Jews for Jesus"

Isn't that an oxymoron? :shrug:

[Classical_Liberal]

19. It's a free country.

. A groups of converts from Judaism to christianity calls itself by that name.

[elfwitch]

20. sure it's free but...

Jews for Jesus is an oxymoron. Basic to Jew-ness is the messiah hasn't come yet clause. You cannot be Jewish and believe the messiah has come. The two are flatly incompatable. The Jews for Jesus organization exists to try to lure Jews away from Judiasm by practicing the same rituals but including the whole salvation can only be found through Jesus bit.

[Classical_Liberal]

23. Yes, but Jews are also considered an ethnic group by many

I don't know about the messiah business. Some Jews though Kahani was a messiah. I think the big theological difference was over divinity of Jesus. Jesus being the son of god, and salvation. Also the mosaic covenant.

[Beetwasher]

43. Wrongfully considered an ethnic group

If the Jews are an ethnic group then every religion is an ethnic group.

The "messiah business" is the crux of the matter that created a schism between Jews and Christians in the first place. It's really the whole deal, everything else is secondary.

[Name removed]

8. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Beetwasher]

10. Oh really?

They do? What does it have to do w/ them being Jews? Do Xtian's who control by proxy get the same rap? Why not? Explain yourself...

[leftynyc]

12. Please tell me you just forgot the sarcasm tag

n/t

[Mairead]

14. two minds with but a single thought

[charlie]

15. Sarcasm?

Sarcasm, right?

[Wednesdays]

16. Is that you, Adolf?

n/t

[Loyal]

22. Jews don't recruit

converts. They actively discourage you 3 times from converting. On the other hand, if you go to Pat Robertson and say you want to be a christian, it's not hard at all. :puke:

[Beetwasher]

24. This isn't really a question about recruiting

It's about who "worships" money. You'd think if Jews were as money hungry as they are accused of being then they would have no problems going begging on TV like Pat Robertson.

[elfwitch]

25. accounting

Nah... It's just the Jewish God is a better accountant. :silly:
Bah dum bah!

[Beetwasher]

26. LOL!

Makes sense!

[sangh0]

27. Real funny!

And how about them black folks? Why don't we see them shilling for money on TV? Is it because they're all so happy with their welfare checks? Hahaha! Just kidding folks. I can joke around right? After all, we're all liberals here and we all know that a liberal would never mock someone for bigoted reasons, right?

[Beetwasher]

28. Huh?

Mock? Explain...

I happen to be Jewish and I'm not mocking anyone. It was a silly joke. If you read the rest of the posts by the poster who made it you'll see no mocking was intended...Lighten up...

[Loyal]

29. Well

I think he was throwing your bigotry right back at you.

[Beetwasher]

30. My Bigotry?

WTF are you talking about?

[Catherine Vincent]

33. I went back and re-read your post, I didn't see any bigotry either.

:shrug:

[Beetwasher]

36. Apparently

some people were offended by elfwitch's accounting joke. :shrug:

It was a silly joke. It made me giggle. I'm Jewish and I wasn't offended and I think elfwitch is Jewish too...Some people need to lighten up I think...

[Classical_Liberal]

37. Maybe some people are just flamers

Just my experience.

[Must_B_Free]

46. I'm not Jewish, but I was offended.

We don't need stereotyping in these types of discussions. It's inflammitory.

[Beetwasher]

48. Irony is lost on some people

or maybe you're just trying to be a trouble maker? I dunno. But perhaps you don't get it?

I started a thread about people stereotyping Jews. Elfwitch made a silly joke, stereotyping jews, and that is part of the irony of the joke and why it was funny. Understand? It was silly, but in no way offensive.

[Must_B_Free]

50. no, it was offensive.

the joke was making fun of the notion that certain cultures are historically considered "shrewd". That's why it was offensive, the same way other stereotypical notions about other cultures are offensive, as one poster demonstrated. Just because it was meant as a joke doesn't make it unoffensive, not does calling it "silly" - it was silly, but also could be hurtful in its notion of perpetuating a stereotype.

[pruner]

56. I'm Jewish but you seem to know a lot more than me, so let me ask you…

are Jewish converts entitled to Israeli citizenship the same as "natural-born" Jews?

[kskiska]

34. Well, to be fair,

they did accept Elizabeth Taylor and Sammy Davis, Jr. But then, that's Hollywood.

[BloodyWilliam]

31. Judaism is not an evangelical religion.

Of course, that makes us xenophobic and afraid of outsiders. :wtf:

The things I learned while lerking on Stormfront's forums. Sweet merciful Quan Yin these people are so unbelievably fucked up. And I'm a masochist for reading it.

They make Freepers look like... well, not freepers.

[Az]

32. Religions as social entities

Religions enter the mind of people and survive by means of survival of the fittest. Note this does not mean the most accurate religion. Rather the system that has the best means of propogating tends to be favored.

There are a number of systems adopted by various religions to survive in the mental enviroment. Some are nonaggressive and propogate amongst family and tribes. Others are more predatory in nature and seek converts from other communities.

Christianity is one of the most aggressive predatory religions. Judaism has survived by building on strong internal communities and traditions. It has not taken on the evangelyzing tactic.

A religion may be true or false. However its presense in society and success are a measure of their ability to propogate and in no way quantify as validation for the actual belief system itself. Its factuality is a completely seperate matter.

[Beetwasher]

42. Good points, however

My point was really more of a rhetorical one. The quote that I posted from the linked article really ticked me off and it occurred to me that if Jews were so obsessed w/ money and worship money as so many claim, then why is it the fundamentalist christians who are the one's on TV begging for money and bilking millions of people so blatantly...You'd think if the accusations against Jews were true they too would get in on the action...Somehow though these fundamentalist nutjobs don't get tarred as being money worshippers though, when in fact that's exactly what they are...

[RandomUser]

35. Jews are not suppose to proselytize

If I recall correctly, they're not suppose to preach and convert people. People can ask to be converted, but Rabbis are not suppose to go out and try to get them to convert. There's a genetic and cultural component to Judaism that makes it more than a religion.

They've conducted genetic studies that were only possible because Jews are mostly born, marry within the faith, and don't try to convert others. The same genetic studies going back centuries would not have been possible with the other religions because the other religions seek converts. That's what distinguishes Jews from followers of other faiths, and why there's an ethic and racist component to anti-semetism, rather than just religious bigotry. You can't say it's just a religion, because of the genetic markers.

[Beetwasher]

38. I know. A lot of posters apparently are missing my point

It's NOT about recruiting converts, it's about the begging for money and it was inspired by the quote from the article that was linked to.

[Must_B_Free]

44. MODS - Pleas LOCK this thread!

it is inflammatory.

[Beetwasher]

45. Do you really think so?

Or are you just trying to make some sort of a point?

I wasn't trying to be inflamatory. Please explain why you think it is. If it gets locked, please PM me. I'm sincerely interested in wondering why you think so, since I see nothing inflamatory about it.

[Must_B_Free]

47. Oh no - I'm not taking your bait

discussions about religion, race or culture are politically sticky. You start asking too many question and you'll be banned. It happened to me before. I asked if a particular thing was real or a conspiracy theory and I got banned after 1400 posts, but eventually, Skinner let me come back under a new screen name.

The way he described it is that it's his party and if he thinks you are an unruly guest, he throws you out. But if you go put on a fresh suit and sober up, he'll let you back in.

So just don't ask the wrong questions and you'll be OK.

[Beetwasher]

49. Got it

You're stirring up trouble because you were banned for starting trouble. I'm not "baiting" anyone and I wasn't trying to. If the Mods think this should be locked, fine. I don't think I've ever done anything to you personally, so I don't know why you're trying to stir up trouble for me. Alert the Mods if you think the thread is innapropriate, otherwise you're just kicking it and bringing more attention to it.

[Must_B_Free]

52. How am I stirring up trouble?

:shrug:

In fact - look at all the trouble this little "joke" of a thread has spawned?

And I'm the one stirring up trouble?

And I don't have any personal beef with you, Beetwasher, I LIKE you. I just know from experience what is deemed inflammitory around here and that bar is actually lower than most of us might expect.

[brainshrub]

54. I don't think it's inflamatory.

But I'm not Jewish. If jewish people stepped up to the plate and said this WAS inflamatory, then perhaps it should be locked.

[brainshrub]

51. Jews don't like to embarrass themsleves

...in front of Gentiles. Besides, it just makes them a target.