Look at this e-mail my Conservative friend sent me- it's kinda scary

[Wetzelbill]

By the way, he likes to call himself HANNITY and me colmes. Which pretty much explains how bright he is. I usually thoroughly whip his ass and he definitely acknowledges it too. Somehow he worked up the fluff to want to try me out again. I'd be interested in getting some DUers to help me rough him up a bit this time. YOu know, for a lark and all. -Bill


It has been so long since we have discussed politics in our great country. I have missed you and your liberal bullshit. I will light the fire again! I hope that we, as friends, can continue our discussions in a friendly manner. I will began,

I want to start with Homeland Security. Not with the President, but our Congress. I look upon our great leaders in the Congress and see only a few outspoken individuals defending Homeland Security and the men and women defending Homeland Security. Many Republican leaders in Congress have been instrumental in the fight of job security of Law Enforcement officers. I submit Congressmen Cox (R-Cal), Souder (R-Ind), Shadegg (R-AZ), and Camp (R-WI). As I a Law Officer of Homeland Security, I was seeking out support for a great narcotic interdiction unit, which many of the Democratic congressmen would not reply or in my terms, not support law enforcement. In fact, these aforementioned Congressmen, not only "bucked" the Presidential appointed Homeland Security Leadership, but also gave strong fight for the protection of our great unit of Native American Law Officers. In my opinion, the Democratic Congressional Leadership failed to support American Indians and Law Enforcement in general. I conclude my statement on this subject.

Next, Middle East issues. With the brutal killing of American Diplomatic officials in the West Bank, I cannot believe that you support the Palestinian movement and view the Israeli government as hostile. The Israeli government has only wanted peace, while the Palestinian movement has only believed in brutal violence. You compared the Israeli Gov to the US Gov during the Indian Campaigns of the 1800's. My friend, times have changed greatly. How can you compare what the Palestinian people are going thru, with what the Native Americans have experienced. NO COMPARISON! They support terrorism, they defend terrorist, and they hide terrorist. I quote our great leader, Pres.George W. Bush "You are with us, or against us" in the war on terrorism. Clearly the PLO is against us.

Iraq. Although I do not agree with the movement against Iraq, we are now stuck with it. I do not support "giving" Iraq $87 Billion in money that we can use at home. That is one point that we can agree upon. Our elected Congress, along with many Democrats (many which are running against our great president) voted to entered into the attack on Iraq. It is our job to not only rebuild, but improve the country in "our" way. Improve in the country in "our" way which does not invite terrorist! One in "our" way which invites a free nation, of all people. I do support a "loan" from our government of $87 Billion, in turn of either oil reserves to secure our Strategic Oil Reserves or a Monetary payback. We have to secure our standing in Iraq or the Syrians or Al Qaida will.

Finally, Democratic leadership. I was born into Democratic leadership with Senator Baucus(D-MT) as the defender of Indians on our reservation and in our State of Montana.
I was born with the belief that Democrat's are for the Indians. Research what he has done for our tribe. NOTHING. Senator Burns(R-MT) has done more than Baucus for our tribe in the last five years. He has brought millions of $$ for Indian housing and other projects. Baucus has done nothing, but lip service. Every election year he promises things to Indians in Montana, while never owning up to one promise. Burns has brought contracts for housing and buildings to Pikuni Industry's.

I await your comments and rebuttals, my friend. Prove me wrong. I know that you will come back with great opinionated views. Your friend turning very Conservative,

Mike aka "Hannity"

P.S. Department of "PEACE", please!! Remember 9-11, Dept. of Peace, my brown ASS!!


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Jester_11218]

1. I'd love to talk to this person

It is always the people who don't know the true situation and history that are the ones who see the mid east situation as black and white...good and bad.

Tell your buddy to look here:
http://israel.tvnewslies.org
Maybe he can learn some reality.

[lysergik]

2. lets see.

Homeland Security - We're less secure now than we were before the DHS was assembled. What happened to all the small government cronies? All Bush did was merge a bunch of departments and throw out of a lot of established directors and high level positions and now can't fill a lot of other high level positions.. good job! Not to mention the lack of a Cyber Security Czar and finally appointing a corporate puppet to the role. Nice job guys, you might as well bend over since you already have your pants around your ankles.

Middle East - Shouldn't be involved in the entire Israel/Palentine mess, backing the Israelis is just making a better case for militant terrorism groups to target Americans as a whole.

Iraq - Don't get me started, OIL OIL OIL.

Democratic leadership - We need some and it better get focused damn quickly, letting issues such as the California recall and the presidency slip away are all examples of what not to do. Don't do another recall in CA, now is the time to be focusing on presidential elections, not clouding peoples minds with other political BS.

[Saudade]

3. Cool

It's cool that someone so incredibly misguided and dumb can actually be your friend.

He/she seems nice.

I would not know where to begin in refuting his message, because everything in it is basically simple minded delusion.

[poskonig]

4. What is scary about this?

"Hannity" feels ignored by Senator Baucus, wants to ensure that Iraq is rebuilt upon American values, is one-sided in the Israel-Palestinian conflict, and likes the Homeland Security Act for unspecified reasons. While some of this stuff may be the result of sloppy thinking, I personally don't find it scary.

[Wetzelbill]

7. what's scary is he only thinks in black and white terms

You did catch the great President George W. Bush comment right? Not much more frightening than that.

[Maddy McCall]

5. This guy is an American Indian???

Amazing!

Ask him if he is aware of the numerous acts of protection of American Indian religion and sacred sites that Clinton signed into law. How can he HONESTLY SAY that Republicans are more supportive of American Indians than Democrats???

What about Bush putting the nuclear waste inside the sacred indian site, Yucca Mountain?

Damn, there is just to much stupidity in this guy's email to even counter.

Amazing. But then look who his role model is.

[Wetzelbill]

8. yeah, we both are, from the Blackfeet tribe

[Bandit]

6. Many things he is absolutley correct about.

The current "Democrats" we have in Congress leave a lot to be desired. There are some caring republicans who actually do make a difference. As to law enforcement issues I would have to disagree that the Republicans are/have doing/done a better job of getting resources to law enforcement agencies. Clinton had his hundred thousand cops program that immediately got the axe when Republicans took control. As far as Sen Baucus goes, like I said before We can do better with those we choose to represent us. This guy sounds like he is somewhat reasonable so keep in touch with him.

[Isome]

9. Homeland Security --

It was an idea originated by Democrats, the previous administration to be exact (and if memory serves). After months of refusing to consider the idea, the Bush cabal finally co-opted the idea and turned it into the mega-agency we have today. Further, they've already been caught abusing it when the Texas Democrats 'went missing' and they unsuccessfully used the DHS in the manhunt.

ADDITION: Had it been the Democrats who proposed a reshuffling of agencies into the behemoth now called DHS, the Republicans would be howling daily that it is further proof of the "big government" label for Democrats being accurate.

[snippy]

10. This phrase isn't "kinda scary." It is just plain sick.

"I look upon our great leaders in the Congress."

I don't care whether a republican (conservative, moderate, Reich wing or other kind of republican) or a democrat (liberal, progressive, conservative or other kind of democrat) says this, it is sick. Very disturbed mind at work there.

[LeahMira]

14. It does sound strange...

"I look upon our great leaders in the Congress."

... sort of like the "Great Father in Washington." Is your friend serious or is he playing around a little here?

[Isome]

11. Palestinians=Baaad -- Israelis=Good

One specific instance of Israeli brutality: Its military detained 41 peaceful activists.

First they arrested the people filming their brutality. Then they beat several people who were trying to get into help, one seriously enough that his ribs may be cracked. And now they are busy demolishing the A'ameer home in Mas'ha.

And for what?

Because the settlers on the other side of this farmer didn't want the Apartheid fence to be close to their illegal settlement, and, after all, peace activists and Palestinians are expendable in this occupation by the Israeli government.

Though I could cite pages of Israeli wrongdoing and the UN sanctions against them, I'd have to do too much googling, and frankly, the ridiculous assertion about the Palestinians isn't worth the effort. Your friend is under the mistaken belief that an entire nationality can be comprised of all bad people or all good people; that's puerile thinking at its worst. Tell him to refine his thought processes and try again at a later date.

[Cat Atomic]

12. It's mostly just non-specific, Hannity-esque pontification.

It's sort of hard to counter his statements, since he's not really saying anything. He's just praising the United States and certain US politcians, then summarizing very complex issues with "my team is best".

As to the Israeli/Palestinian issue he brought up, he really should recognize the fact that the United States is not an impartial observer. Every administration in the last 50 years has made it clear that we back Israel, and our funding records and UN voting record illustrate that fact very clearly. With that in mind, it's surprising there haven't been more attacks on US interests than there have been.

The $87 billion? I happen to think we HAVE to spend that money. We levelled the country, we have to help reconstruct it.

Where I part ways with guys like this is in how the money should be spent. I don't think it's a good idea to hand gobs of money to American businesses to reconstruct the place, just on faith. There has to be a very tight accounting of where that money is spent.

I assume he backs the idea of Iraqi oil funding the reconstruction. I would love to hear his explanation of why that doesn't amount to stealing the resources and wealth of a country we've invaded. If you export Iraqi oil, then take those funds and hand them to an American company to pay for their reconstruction charges... well... that's stealing the oil.

[LeahMira]

13. It is sorta strange...

... but also gave strong fight for the protection of our great unit of Native American Law Officers. In my opinion, the Democratic Congressional Leadership failed to support American Indians and Law Enforcement in general.

What's that all about? And how does it apply to Homeland Security?

I do know that the excesses of the FBIs power in the 1960s and 1970s was largely responsible for Wounded Knee Two. After COINTELPRO was exposed, a lot of those powers were limited to prevent the excesses but the Patriot Act restored those powers and gave even more to the FBIs and the rest of law enforcement.

You compared the Israeli Gov to the US Gov during the Indian Campaigns of the 1800's. My friend, times have changed greatly. How can you compare what the Palestinian people are going thru, with what the Native Americans have experienced. NO COMPARISON! They support terrorism, they defend terrorist, and they hide terrorist.

The Palestinians are fighting for their homeland, in the same way as the American Indians were fighting (and still are fighting) for their homeland and for self-determination. It's true that times have changed for the Indians, but I'd guess that U.S. citizens of the day would have considered Crazy Horse a terrorist if the term had been popular back then. And Geronimo or Cochise? A lot of white people still think of them as "savages," IMO because they were able to give the U.S. a serious whipping and were military strategists par excellence.

Now the "Indian Wars" are fought in the courts and in Congress by people like NARF and by the tribal lawyers and leaders. Still, the people are fighting for rights that were once promised but never delivered, in the treaties and court decisions and even by Congress. The arena is changed, but the battles aren't over.

What chance do the Palestinians have to even be heard in Israeli courts today? Maybe one day, but not now.

I think you are right. The Palestinians have a lot in common with the American Indians of the 1800s. The only differences I see are that the Israelis are not growing in population to the point where they want more land to house their people and the Palestinians do not have resources like oil or anything that the Israelis want... except the holy places. But the holy places are important because they are the people's soul.

It is our job to not only rebuild, but improve the country in "our" way. Improve in the country in "our" way which does not invite terrorist! One in "our" way which invites a free nation, of all people.

I agree that it is the responsibility of the U.S. to rebuild what was destroyed in the war and maybe make things even better and more modern and efficient as appropriate. For the $20 billion, I have no serious problem. But I do not think the Iraqi people want a U.S. style hierarchically organized government any more than the American Indians wanted it, or needed it. I also read somewhere today that the $67 billion for the military is not necessary because money has already been appropriated sufficient to sustain them until next spring. And you know how it is. Give those Republicans money and they'll find some program to spend it on! :-)

I was born with the belief that Democrat's are for the Indians. Research what he has done for our tribe. NOTHING.

I'm not familiar with the situations in Montana, but it was Nixon who ended the termination era and replaced it with a policy of self-determination. Still, John Collier was pretty decent, and wasn't he working under Roosevelt? I know that President Clinton visited the Pine Ridge and the Navajo Nation promising to develop the areas economically and to this date they have apparently seen squat in the way of economic assistance. That really disappointed me! Private foundations and businesses have helped in various ways here and there, but from the Federal government no one has seen anything. Then, there's always Cobell v. Babbit and now Cobell v. Norton. A sad situation if ever there was one, but in that both administrations have acted horribly.

All politics is local, so they say, and it seems that in Montana the Republicans have managed to get on the good side of some tribes. Overall, though, I wonder if Indians can really expect respect and recognition of their sovereignty from either party. It takes a lot of effort on the Indians' part and, speaking as a non-Indian, it makes me furious that the Indians have such a hard time getting a little respect from the U.S. government no matter which party is in power.

Wonder if Winona LaDuke had become Vice-President? The Green Party platform speaks specifically to Native American issues. Maybe "Hannity" should go Green!

(I will now duck... quickly!) ;-)

[veracity]

15. Right wingnuts have destroyed Israel.

The insane mutli party system in the Israeli Knesset has always forced every government to form a coalition whose existence is controlled by the right wing parties in Israel. These, tell your friend, are NOT, and have never been peace loving. These lunatics, not unlike similar fanatics in Christianity and Islam, wave their Bibles as proof of their righteousness. These are the people who want the land "Abraham promised" them. These are the people who have systematically taken land that is not theirs, and who are doing all they can to drive all the Palestinians into Jordan so they can have a Greater Israel - the lands of Sumeria and Judea, which are now the occupied territories.

Understand, I am a Jew and a true Zioninst. I've been to Israel, I know people there and here - both Israelis and Arabs. There are hundreds of thousands of Jews in Israel who want peace, and know that Sharon is leading them to destruction. As I write, hundreds of new settlements (ha, - large COMMUNITIES) are being built on land that belongs to Palestinians.

These are also the same groups that make Israel a theocracy internally, rather than a true secular democracy which was its original intent, and whose goal is to make Israel a JEWISH county, rather than a homeland for Jews of the Diaspora. Your friend gets his information from the Jewish Press, no doubt. Biased garbage.

Refer your friend to the list of Jewish and Israeli organizations working for a just peace for Palestinians. The list is at the bottom of the unreported Israeli news on TvNewsLies.org the editor posted above. http://www.tvnewslies.org/html/israel_un-reported.html

Show him the article from Ha'aretz - the last (most recent addition to the links on that page in which this Israeli newspaper explains why SHARON IS DANGEROUS!

Tell your friend about the Refuseniks...the IDF reservists who have chosen jail rather than to continue oppressing and killing innocent Palestinians, and about the Pilots who have joined them by refusing to obey orders to fly missions targeting civilian areas in the occupied territories. These guys are still in jail. Go figure.

Tell your friend that the leader of the refuseniks is the nephew of Netanyahy, - the right wing hawk who wants to cleanse the region of Arabs - not because they are dangerous, but because the own land he wants.

These righteous Jewish and Israeli organizations decry the destruction of Palestinian lives and the longest occupation in recent history of a people given no rights and no dignity. When Palestinians kill, they are terrorists. When Israelis kill they are heroes. Strange. In this latest Intefada, planned and instigated by Sharon, almost three times as many Palestinian civilians have died at the hands of IDF armor and rockets than have Israeli civilians died at the hands of frenzied suicide bombers. But, - your friend doesn't care. Arab blood is cheap. All violence is wrong. Some is retaliation.

So much more. So little space. Send your friend the truth.

[eleny]

16. I would stop at the first sentence

"It has been so long since we have discussed politics in our great country. I have missed you and your liberal bullshit. I will light the fire again! I hope that we, as friends, can continue our discussions in a friendly manner. I will began,..."

Your aquaintance calls your beliefs "liberal bullshit" and then asserts that they want to have a dialog "as friends". That's the time to say that "friends" don't insult each other like this. So, when they find themselves an attitude adjustment regarding the meaning of friendship, they can contact you. Until then, there's nothing to discuss.

Believe me, it will get to him that you completely ignored the rest of his screed.

[MrPrax]

17. Hannity is sure ernest...but ridiculous

He fancies himself a blogger or something...
Encourage him...coz he is easily defeated...
de Tocqueville noted in his famous tour of the Continent the American fondness of 'great speeches'
Love your buddy's flowery language...(an attempt to place his comments in a pathenon of greatness, no doubt)
"I look upon our great leaders in the Congress"
"One in "our" way which invites a free nation, of all people."
"My friend, times have changed greatly." LOL what insight...they got buttons on the phone and everything NOW!!

It might be authentic, as even the GOP letter-bots wouldn't write in such an arcane manner.

It might be his opinion, in other words and as such, if he is genuine in his statement "Finally, Democratic leadership. I was born into Democratic leadership with Senator Baucus(D-MT) as the defender of Indians on our reservation and in our State of Montana."

Tell him to come back home and all is forgiven...many democrats have been in the wilderness for the last two decades because of the Reagan-Bush dynasty...
They need more compassion than anything Likud or the Bush Cabal will give them...

[Octafish]

18. Ask him if he's heard of Dale Kildee (D-Mich.)

He's a good man. And he's a Liberal Democra and the founder of the Congressional Native American Caucus. I've had the privilege of speaking with him several times and he's always told the truth and done what he said he would do.

http://www.house.gov/kildee/issues_profile.htm

As for the rest of hannity's "arguments" don't worry. The guy knows nothing. Teach him how to use GOOGLE and suggest he put in Ollie North, drugs, Iran-contra. In no time, he could be scouring the net reading up on Adnan Khashoggi, Richard Perle, and Trireme Partnerships.

[Isome]

19. Palestinian/Native American Comparison --

• "To criticize the march of progress, in Roosevelt's view, was idle sentimentality. "It is indeed a warped, perverse, and silly morality, which would forbid a course of conquest that has turned whole continents into the seats of mighty and flourishing civilized nations. All men of sane and wholesome thought must dismiss with impatient contempt the plea that these continents should be reserved for the use of scattered savage tribes, whose life was but a few degrees less meaningless, squalid, and ferocious than that of the wild beasts with whom they hold joint ownership." In a more succinct formulation, Roosevelt warned that "if we fail to act on the 'superior people' theory..., barbarism and savagery and squalid obstruction will prevail over most of the globe.""



"A half century later Winston Churchill, in his defense of Zionist conquest, echoed Roosevelt's sentiments. Comparing the indigenous population of Palestine to a dog in a manger, Churchill said: "I do not agree that the dog in a manger has the final right to the manger, even though he may have lain there for a very long time...I do not admit that a wrong has been done to these people by the fact that a stronger race, a higher grade race, or at any rate, a more worldly-wise race, to put it that way, has come in and taken their place.""



• "...Like the proverbial phoenix rising from the ashes, the Cherokee nation took wing yet again after the Trail of Tears. ...remarkable given the dimness of Cherokee prospects under Jackson's self-rule plan."



"In laying the blueprint for Palestinian self-rule in the West Bank and Gaza, Israel seems almost to have stolen a page from Jackson's book." ...



• "...the Cherokee nation was crushed beneath the juggernaut of American power."
  

  "Foreshadowing the fate of the Palestinians after the Gulf War" ...

  
  
• "The American colonists, posing as innocent victims desperate for peace, maintained that the war with the Cherokee was one of self-defense."



"Israel in 1948 (and after) was reading from an old script. Negotiating with Carolinian settlers in 1777, the Cherokee leader Corn Tassel took a jaundiced view of American protestations: "You only want our land and not to make peace.""

"In its main lineaments, the Cherokee displacement typified the fate of many conquered peoples, Palestinians included. ...examination of the Cherokee nation’s relations with frontier settlers and the U.S. government serves as a useful parallel to the fate of the Palestinians in their contest with Jewish settlers and Israel. Although ...widely separated by time, place and culture, there are striking similarities in the rhetoric, tactics, legal justifications, and deployment of violence by the two conquest regimes."

Insist that your friend disprove the accuracy of the parallels before he employs the neo-con tactic of dismissing an argument without knowing, or citing, the facts to backup the dismissal.

[punpirate]

20. Couple of questions and comments....

I'm a bit confused as to his complaint about law enforcement and his arguments and how they fit into the Homeland Security Department. Is this an issue about which both of you have some knowledge? There's not enough information to figure out a response. The "great narcotics interdiction unit" he speaks of--was this his own idea and wasn't funded? There are so many possibilities here that I can't guess. Jurisdictional disputes, duplicative effort, Indian nation sovereignty issues--all might be the real reasons for him not getting what he wanted.

Others have said plenty about the parallels between the situations of Palestinians and Native Americans that I probably don't need to add anything. Except to say that his presumption that "times have changed greatly" is surely incorrect. Perhaps one needs to remind him of the histories of both peoples and regions, and of George Santayana's dictum: "Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it." Or, perhaps, more persuasively, Mark Twain: "History doesn't repeat itself. It rhymes."

There are so many places in the west today named "Fort" something because almost every reservation had a military detachment nearby. Sound like the occupied territories? Sure does to me.

As for good Republicans and bad Democrats, certainly there's no argument there--both exist. Baucus leaves a lot to be desired, and not just on Native American issues. Your friend is careful not to mention Bill Janklow, though, who has been fairly neglectful of Native American issues, both as a governor and as a Congressman, and if I'm not mistaken, dares not step onto a particular reservation for fear of arrest.

On Iraq, perhaps there are some similarities there, too, to Native American history. He says: "It is our job to not only rebuild, but improve the country in 'our' way." The dominant view in this country a hundred years ago was that the "Indian problem" could only be solved by force and forced assimilation into white culture. Look at the problems that created--poverty, alcoholism, abuse, enduring psychological problems in those attending Indian schools because their identities were being stripped from them. Right now, there's a shortage of books for the public schools in Iraq because an American firm is being paid to delete all references to Saddam Hussein from them, and the revised editions have not yet been printed. Revisionist history, courtesy of the occupying forces. Drug abuse is a blossoming problem among Iraqis in the last few months.

Many reservations had valuable natural resources which the US government insisted on managing on behalf of the reservations, to the detriment of many tribes. Does that sound a bit like what's going on in Iraq now? You bet it does.

As for describing Bush as "our great president," there's probably not much you can say to change that view. But, it might not hurt to keep peppering your replies to him with news accounts that might hit some tender spots--continuing refusal by the Bush administration to turn over documents to the 9/11 commission, on the lies Bush himself told to scare the public into accepting a war that was planned years ago.

Cheers.

Edit to correct syntax.

[Loyal]

21. This person has some of the worst grammar

I have ever seen. Typical freeper. Low on brains, high on attitude.

[submerged99]

22. Banish him from the tribe.

Is this guy one of the tribal cops that got replaced by the BIA. That would explain why he's sitting around watching FAUX News and spouting off with laughable "observations." Hey, ask him if FAUX News ever reported the beating the California Tribes took at the hands of Arnold or the attacks from the Wall Street Journal. As a matter of fact, send him this article right here.

"Beware the anti-Indian media message: A twisted story can become legend"

http://indiancountry.com/?1066412116