How much do you think Clinton cares about results like this?

[Mairead]

Poll question: How much do you think Clinton cares about results like this?

Barbara Habeck thought she had broken the welfare cycle, until she opened up her paycheck one Friday last April.

It was, she says, "the hardest day of my life."

A single mom and school cook in northern Minnesota, Habeck was laid off.

"It made me throw up in the parking lot," she says. "I opened up that check and there was that notice and that's all it took."

Until then, Habeck had been a welfare reform success story, moving from welfare to work.

Now, as CBS News Correspondent Jim Axelrod reports, she and her kids are living in a homeless shelter.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/10/15/eveningnews/ends/main578211.shtml

[Terwilliger]

1. you ask it of Clinton

there's no reason not to ask it of everyone else who supported the changes he made

[Mairead]

5. Yes, thanks, I agree. And I've started another just to see if there are

perceived differences: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=553672

[bread_and_roses]

2. Clinton sold out poor people

with his Welfare "reform." And I don't really understand your other choices, but I could well be dim tonight...have been working all day.

[AP]

6. Clinton may have been tough on Welfare, but was much tougher on the ...

things that caused people to go on welfar.

And if you can't see that it took the former to circumvent Republican BS so that he could get around to doing the latter, I just wonder how long you've been paying attention to how politics works.

[rfranklin]

3. Hey, he neutralized the Republicans...

and got re-elected. That in itself was a plus. And he is a politician.

On the generous side, maybe he really thought that the peace and prosperity would keep everyone afloat.

[cprise]

4. "Neutralized?"

Let's see: Welfare to Work, NAFTA, DOMA, media-deregulation, rejected Kyoto Protocol.

And that's just off the top of my head.

Given that he wasn't a fear-monger, we made our own prosperity.

[AP]

8. What do you think all those things would have looked like if Republicans

were in control?

Instead of stopping at DOMA, you'd have had a transfer of public money and responsibilities to relgious groups.

Instead of stopping at NAFTA, we would have just invaded countries to rape them of their natural resources.

Instead of Welfar to Work, they would have just destroyed the economy to creat a lot of unemployed people, a lot of people willing to accept very low wages, and a lot of rich people getting richer.

Instead of merely rejecting Kyoto, we would have rejected it and then unleashed corporations to polute at will.

Instead of stopping at media deregulation, they would have let Fox reporters go into Baghdad palaces to steal art and artifacts.

[burr]

9. neutralized now has "changed" its meaning since 9/11, for example...

the terrorists neutralized America, we neutralized bin ladin, shrub neutralized Iraq, and taxcuts are neutralizing deficit spending.

Reform means neutralizing welfare and healthcare. Homeland defense is "neutralizing" the possibility of less defense spending. The use of preemptive strikes will neutralize any likehood for world peace. And no child left behind means neutralizing public education. And being a patriot means neutralizing any ethnic or religious security threats to life, liberity, and the pursuit of happiness.

[tom_paine]

13. Damn, burr, that was well said!

:thumbsup:

[burr]

14. please don't neutralize me...

like charges don't attract well! :spank:

[chookie]

7. What does Bush think about this?

And what do the present Congressional leadership think about this?

Better to take this critical issue up with those who are currently in a position to do something about it, than go retro.

[Old and In the Way]

10. I was thinking, what does FDR think about this.....

then I remembered he is dead.

[John_H]

11. How much do the poor care about cases like this?

...Ralph Nader's groups have long taken advantage of earnest young ambitious workers, with two differences; Nader was more controlling and paid far less. In 1976, many were paid $5,000 per year and only a few at the top made as much as $20,000. der's organizations refuse to release information on what they pay workers.) while, Nader required daily logs of everything the workers did from 7am to 9pm, plus monthly summaries of these logs. If you didn't turn in your logs, you didn't get paid.

Nader often called workers after midnight or on sunny weekend days, with instructions, or just to test their willingness to work hard. When a revolt over working conditions broke out in the Congress Project and students demanded a group session with Nader, he contemptuously scheduled a meeting at 7:00 am, believing that few would show up.

9 marriages of staffers broke up under the pressure, including John and Nancy Esposito's, Mark Green's, Sid Wolfe's, and Davitt McAteer's.

What makes this meanness worse is that Nader claims to be defending workers -- for example in opposing the GATT treaty -- and thathos organizations have a huge surplus of money, accumulating millions of dollar with which Ralph has played the stock market.

http://www.realchange.org/nader.htm#overwork

[Terwilliger]

15. oh for fuck's sake...why are you talking about Nader?

What is it about Democrats and their not accepting responsibility for their own failures?

And would you PLEASE post some stuff about Democrats from the "real change" website?

[oasis]

12. Above all, B.C. is a people person.