Would you want a Casino in your state?

[spooked]

The State of Maine will be voting this November on allowing a Casino to move to the state. Some say it's great for bringing in tax dollars to lower our propertty taxes, others say crime will increase, and only Las Vegas bigwigs benefit.

What do DU'ers think about Casinos? Would you want one in your state? I'm leaning towards a NO vote just because I hate to see people engaging in "voluntary taxation"!

If you have a Casino in your state has it been a good or bad experience?

[wyldwolf]

1. Yes..

I don't think I have ever seen any proof that casinos cause more crime.

Sounds more like moral faith-based statistics to me - like when they say strip clubs cause crime when, in fact, some studies suggest the opposite.

[NoKingGeorge]

32. I live in Jersey

We have a dozen Casinos. My property taxes are up again this year. I see no benefit, low wage house cleaning jobs, no development other than gaudier hotels.
Very sad to see people being bussed in for 'free' and then taking the last few quarters of these people who can least afford it. Friends who work there talk about the first of the month when folks leave crying because they have spent their welfare checks. They are drawn in by free lunches and free bus trips, propagandizid to beleive their is a way out of their unfortunate lives. Not a pleasent place.

[radwriter0555]

40. Casinos are great. Las Vegas is one of the fastest growing cities

in the USA, and is very prosperous.

Gambling is great good fun and harmless unless you're obsessive compulsive and gamble your life away.

Like anything else, including drink, drugs, excess is a bad thing. Gambling in and of itself isn't bad, and the revenues from it can be fantastic.

[maxanne]

2. No

I would not want one. I lived out west for a while, and saw first hand the devastation of gambling addiction. At 8 am casinos were filled with elderly people whom I suspect were gambling their social security checks away. Lots of alcoholism as well.

I live in a state that derives considerable tax$ from vices - booze and butts. I don't approve of adding more addiction to pay our taxes.

[Nikia]

3. Their on the reservations in Wisconsin

I came to Wisconsin after they already had them. I don't know how its affected crime, personal finances, mental illness, drug abuse, or anything else that gambling has been blamed on. I guess that it has helped the tribes financially though. I personally don't like gambling and don't think that it is usually a position thing for people to engage in. I personally wouldn't want a casino located in my small town and would vote against it. I suppose it is a personal responsibility issue though and therefore should not be illegal. I still don't like it.

[goddess40]

38. Most bars have machines too

They run them illegally, it used to be a felony. When then Gov T. Thompson's brother got in trouble for his machines they dropped it to a ticketable offense.
I love Vegas but they are horrible to have near by. Too many addicts waste too much time and money on them.

[sybylla]

48. Seems to be more good than bad in Wisconsin

In my experience, that is.

The majority of casinos, all owned and operated by our tribes, are in rural areas, bringing jobs to parts of the state which generally need them. Because they are rural, I think there is generally not much crime associated with them. Living relatively near to two of them, I have heard no reports of increased crime. By and large, the tribes have been very sensitive to the casinos'impact on the community.

I support the tribes in having casinos as the profits are divided amongst the tribal members - a kind of cooperative thing. Had we, as a society done a better job of supporting our indigenous communities, I would probably think differently. I would oppose any other type of casino development in Wisconsin. If I lived in another state, my opposition would depend on the circumstances but probably not unless it is strictly regulated and monitored by the state.

[Clete]

4. We have casinos in my state of California

and regardless of what you think, people do gamble so you might as well exploit this source of revenue. Casino's create jobs and that money is spent in our state not the neighboring state of Nevada.

[greatauntoftriplets]

5. We have them in Illinois.

Taxes have not gone down. They were supposed to fund the schools. HA! The schools are still hurting and cutting back on teachers. One district laid off 1/3 of its teachers.

[spooked]

8. They are saying that the Schools will benefit

here too. Interesting to hear that it didn't happen in your state.
The other arguement is that people in Maine are taking busses down to Foxwoods in Connecticut, so you might as well have them spend their money here at home.
Still undecided.

[bif]

37. Sure

the state government just cuts the % of money they kick in to education. They used the same excuse when they started the Lottery here.

[La_Serpiente]

NO

This is one of the few issues that I agree with Republicans on in our state. I don't want any casinos or gambling here in Hawaii. I don't want anyone addicted to gambling here.

[VermontDem2004]

30. but don't you believe in personal responsibility?

I have no problem with gambling and most people are responsible enough to not spend their entire paycheck on it or whatever. But I think if their was a casino it should be up to the people whether they gamble or not.

[drdigi420]

35. the law doesnt stop gambling addicts

there is a LOT of gambling going on in Hawaii RIGHT NOW. But it only enrichs the criminals now, if you legalized it, you'd get the criminals out of the game.

[Nikia]

45. It helps create them

I think that many people will go to a casino if it is around. Once they are there, some people get obsessed with trying to win more if they win a small amount or win back their money if they lose. It can become a vicious cycle that they will think about everytime they drive by that casino with its bright flashy lights. Maybe I am wrong on this, I haven't seen the statistics. I don't know how bad illegal gambling related crime is but I don't think it is as bad as illegal drug related crime. It seems to me that you are creating more harm than good though when you put up a flashy casino that people drive by everyday to and from work complete with big signs and ads that promise fun and big winnings.

[sybylla]

49. Censorship

is telling a man he can't have a steak because a baby can't chew - Mark Twain.

Must we always punish the people who can handle life, who live right and behave in an exemplary fashion towards others because of the few who can't? Where, then, is the incentive to be good, to do right, to live right? If we get punished anyway, why bother?

[Silverhair]

6. I was in lower Mississippi when casinos came in.

The local economy benefited a lot. They brought in thousands of jobs and trained lots of locals for the jobs. For the higher positions out of towners came in, but after, you do want experienced people in the higher positions. After they had been there awhile locals began to be promoted. There was no increase in crime per capita, but due to an increase in the local population, there was an increase in the absolute level of crime.

The casino pumped a lot of money into the local economy & the state economy, both in taxes and in wages & supplies purchased locally, & services contracted for. That created lots of secondary jobs as those businesses expanded.

[Syrinx]

7. It's fine with me as long as they keep them inland

I don't want the beaches to get anymore crowded than they are.

[jbm]

9. We have riverboat gambling in Missouri...

and I'm not sure if it's paid off for schools and stuff. I have a friend who works at one of the boats and she does make good money with good benefits. I have another friend who developed a real gambling problem and reached a point where she had racked up 50,000.00 in credit card debt before she finally put herself on the list that prohibits her from entering the boats. Soooo....

I supported the boats here partly because I enjoy going occasionally(I have a self-imposed 50.00 loss limit though)but primarily because the idea of legalized gambling in Missouri was driving John Ashcroft nearly insane when he was active in Missouri politics. Hmmmm...maybe the thought of it DID drive him insane!

[soothsayer]

10. Yes, especially if they put it closer than an hour and 1/2 away

I prefer voluntary taxation to mandatory taxation, frankly...!

[Malva Zebrina]

11. I am a Mainer and I will vote yes for casinos

I do not gamble, but I think that the Indians should be allowed the chance to venture here in this endeavor. I also think that there will be additional jobs which are rather scarce in Maine and I also think that there is little chance of great big "mafia" invading the sacred state of Maine and corrupting it's people and the state. There is no mafia and anyone who thinks so will be hard pressed to name one person they think is connected to the mafia that is also connected to casino venture. I think the elite of the Scarborough area just do not want any commercial enterprise invading there. I just came back from a trip to southern Maine, and I think it has totally become a ticky tacky Disneyworld--there is nothing left there of the unique flavor of Maine-it is very much oriented toward tourists and tourism-it resembles Disney world or other places that have developed with theme parks, water parks etc. There is little there but restaurants, motels, and restaurants and motels, and more restaurants and more motels--therefore, it is , imo, the perfect place to build more entertainment and from what I see, the casino is going to be an entire entertainment little city within a city--like Foxwoods only smaller. Many people will enjoy its entertainment--restaurants and theaters without even venturing into the casino areas.

[Throckmorton]

14. Dream on,

they will import help from overseas, and pay them crap. Don't beleive it, come to SE Connecticut and talk to the Zoning Enforcement Officers. They close an illegal boarding house a week in Montville.

Sure, for a few years the local had jobs, but without workers rights protections, their only redress is in tribal courts, guess who always wins there. After a few years most people just can't stand the place anymore, so they exhausted the local labor pool and had to look elsewhere.

As for "Many people will enjoy its entertainment--restaurants and theaters without even venturing into the casino areas. " Guess again there too, we have a robbery/embezelment a week down here by 'Good People' who would never see a bookie, but give them a slot machine and they go nuts. yeah, SE Connecticut is full of people that only go there for the shows, and end up bankrupt.

[TankLV]

18. Ya got that right!

ALL casino jobs, except chamber maids and janitors, will be imported.

Has been the case in ALL areas that didn't have any casino's before.

Temp construction jobs, too.

Look it up if you don't believe it.

And - I'm from VEGAS, BABY! - and we're designing casions for all over the country - FROM VEGAS. No local architects (in the proposed new out-of-state casinos) need apply. I'd scream bloody murder if I was an under or un-employed architect/engineer/designer in one of the states contemplating new casinos. But then again, expertise does have it's merits. And boy, do we have expertise with this "little" segment!

[Malva Zebrina]

42. it is their money

and it is none of my business how anyone chooses to spend their money. It is no one's business at all. I don't find this a moral question that I should have to make a judgement upon-some people enjoy gambling--and do not attach any "sin" to it--I am one of them---other casinos in other states thrive--people go to them for entertainment as well as to gamble their money--not yours, but theirs.

I did a pretty complete tour of most of all the fairs in Maine this past summer--people are betting on the ponies in droves--having a good time--they go to the fairs specifically to gamble--so? Scarborough has been racing ponies since I moved here long ago and probably even before that--so? I am perceiving a little of a racist tinge to the complaints that stupid white men living in ticky tacky tinsel land in southern Maine amongst all the theme parks lining route I, with upright and uptight moral turpitude toward gambling are tacitly applying to the Indians who want to enter into this business, imo. They are otherwise pleased to have miles and miles of restaurants, hotels, and glitzy attractions to bring in the money, but let the Indians try to jump on the bandwagon of tourism and cash in a little also, and they start hollering about mafiosa, unfair labor practices, moral righteousness and other things that are quite irrelevant since that area of Maine is already one big casino up and down route 1. That precedent has been set in that area of Maine and it came about from the desire to make money off tourists, and now those who have jumped in to treat Maine like a great big christmas tree, and have made some bucks and living out of dressing up Maine like a whore in an 1862 Miss Lilly's whore house, do not want others to come in and infringe upon their right to glitterize and cajole the tourists into spending their money on sliding down water slides.

[Throckmorton]

46. Its their money is it?

until it is all gone, and it will be.

[Malva Zebrina]

47. what business is that of yours?

People spend their money whatever way they please and that is rightly so -- it is their money, earned by their own efforts throughout their lifetime--and it is their business how they choose to spend it. Many that I have seen who enjoy gambling are not really in dire straights because of that decision to spend it in a way that may seem to you to be unacceptable. You have no say in that matter at all. Whatever makes you think you do? It does not belong to you and it is not your money. I suspect that you would certainly be miffed if I decided I had the unmitigated gall to tell you how you should spend your money. I mean, look, you could be a spendthrift when it comes to shopping in the supermarket--I mean after all, do you really need to buy such expensive shampoo when another more practical and cheaper product is available or do you really need to spend your money on steaks, when hamburger affords the same amount of nutrition? LOL--come on--you have no right to sit up on a pedestal and judge how others choose to spend their money--first of all, you have no idea of how much money they do have and have no idea of what their choice has to do with their life style. Mind your own business and leave the spending of personal money to those who it belongs to--ie those who earned it and have the right to spend it in whatever way they see fit. This is an area that you are not authorized by anyone to judge or to be in control of. It is not your territory.

[Throckmorton]

50. Maybe, just maybe, I pay for my fathers food and electricity evey month,

After he lost everything in the harmless casinos. His home, his truck (just bring in the pink slip, cash on the spot), his tools, all his non-SS retirement (I'll just cashed out that nasty 401-k, all I need is one big win), and ran up $75,000 in credit card debt.

But then again, it was his money, as you say.

And yours too BTW, you see, as he is over 65, he gets this nice elderly apartment, for $175.00 per month. That credit card debt, it was defaulted on, no one hurt there but some big mean old bank. Oh, and there was mom, but then again, who really needs a headstone, I mean, the insurance policy financed almost two full months of Blackjack.

Now he sits in the corner, and crys. But then again, it was his money, he should have known better.

Now, why might I have to pay his lights and for his food each month, when he is bankrupt. He gets almost $1100.00 per month in social security. Well, it seems that federal bankrutpcy laws don't apply to gaming debts on indian land. They were more than happy to lend him $10,000 of dollars against his "Good Credit", so every month, they send a bill for around $500.00, if he dosen't pay, the begin collection procedings.

But again, it was his money. I hope you enjoy your casino.

[union_maid]

12. I wouldn't mind

I'd worry about it attracting low-life types like Bill Bennet, but other than that, a little more crime wouldn't bother us around here. I'm surprised we haven't gotten it yet. Several different communities were expecting, and preparing for it, years ago, but it didn't happen.

[Throckmorton]

13. No thanks, already got two.

Foxwoods and Mohegan Sun.

[TankLV]

15. It's been absolutely the greatest thing for our state, I'll stake my life

on that.

Oh, and I live in Las Vegas, Baby! Yeah!

[Nevernose]

20. Viva Las Vegas

It's the official, almost-midnight DU sing-along time:

"Bright light city gonna set my soul, gonna set my soul on fire..."

If you don't want to sing it like Elvis, sing it like the Dead Kennedys.

[shimmergal]

16. I live in Nevada, and of course we have casinos all over.

Actually I have conflicting things I want to say.

Selfishly, I don't like to see any more states add gambling. The closer we can keep it a legal NV monopoly, the better for our economy <grin>.

But from a wider view, casinos do bring some benefits not usually recognized. They can serve a Robin Hood function, taking money from willing rich people and helping working people to live better. To make this work though, the casino employees need to be unionized. I believe Las Vegas is the only city where this is the case (correct me if I'm wrong), and even here, that's not the situation in all casinos
(however the union presence puts pressure on the non-union ones to keep fairly decent wages and conditions.)

[Zorra]

17. If it is a tribal venture, please, please, support it

It costs money to defend sovereignty, and as casinos show, sovereignty = money. It is just the beginning of economic development in indian country now that indians have the capital to actually invest in communities. People on the rez have the opportunity to seize economic self-determination today. Every tribe that makes money on casinos becomes more self-determinant and makes it more able to protect the sovereignity of the respective tribe and all indian nations collectively.

Here is an article by which explains how tribes actually use money for the betterment of their members, and the tax situation as it relates to tribal gaming:

When Congress passed the Indian Gaming Regulatory Act (IGRA) in 1988, it mandated that gaming revenues be used to strengthen tribal governments and improve life on the reservations. That is exactly what tribes like ours have used gaming proceeds for: We have spent millions of dollars to build and maintain an infrastructure on our reservation with projects that include:

Improving homes for our members.

Paving roads to make travel on and off the reservation easier and safer for our members and customers of our tribal business.

Constructing new tribal offices and a community center so we can provide services to our members more effectively.

Providing other services for tribal members, including health care and social services programs.

Developing education scholarship programs to ensure that any tribal member who wishes to pursue further education doesn't have to worry how to pay for it.

Building sewer and water systems so our members don't have to worry about the water they drink and cook with.

http://www.bizjournals.com/twincities/stories/1997/04/21/editorial2.html

Although indian voter turnout is generally low, the percentage of indians that vote democrat is probably higher, (like 95%) than any other ethnic group. Please support tribal gaming.

[dsc]

19. It was on the ballot twice in Ohio

and I voted for it both times. Then I moved to MS and I never would vote for it. I lived around 25 miles from a casino. My town of around 12k had three pawn shops, two check advance places, and only one department store (WalMart). I was broken into twice in a year, previously I had never been broken into for over 25 years. No way.

[Ridley Park 704]

21. I don't have a problem with casinos.

Never did. Put one on every corner, they're good for business, especially on weekends. if a new bar opened in your town that featured slot machines and gaming tables, there would be 10,000 people trying to break the doors down to get in on a weekend night.

what the hell we already have OTB and lottery. The people who lose fabulous amounts of money at casinos are fabulously wealthy anyway, so what's the problem?

it's fun to gamble at casinos. case closed.

[sandnsea]

22. Trying to get one here

I don't have a problem as long as they include dining and entertainment. Something more than machines in a big building. I guess they're going to build a hotel with ours too, which I think is a mistake. If people were forced to come into our small town, then they'd naturally do some of the other things here too. If they can just go to the casino, sleep and eat there, I don't think it'll help the economy as much. We're just not big enough to attract people out of there. Our city has been fighting it for years, they fight absolutely everything. We'd have been way ahead to fully study casinos and put together a plan that would be the most beneficial. Now I'm afraid we've caused so much friction with the tribe, they won't care what the city thinks.

[SahaleArm]

23. Why Not?

We already have them in Washington State. If you wish you can throw away your money, it's a free country.

[Yupster]

24. No problem with it. It's a free country, but

I despair that more and more jobs are pushing money around jobs rather than creating or making something jobs.

What will the casinoes do when people don't have money to spend in them anymore?

[salin]

27. This is my concern - in our region

There are a few riverboats in Indiana - law requires casinos to be on the water.

There is a move to grant the ability to build a big "Moat" and put a boat on it (for a casino) in an economically depressed county in the state. Lots of pressure on both sides for and against the "Boat in the Moat" up at the statehouse.

As I read the pros and cons this weekend, I thought to myself that another proposal for the area - investment to create a scientific research area - to promote academic and business opportunities. As the "Boat in the Moat" discussions picked up steam, the talk of investment to bring more productive (and over time lucrative) jobs to the area has subsided. The difference is that with the Casino - a quick investment from the Casino operator comes into play, where the other approach would require longer-term planning and leveraging public/private investments. Short term thinking appears to be winning... again.

[Braden]

25. no way

let them travel to Ct. NJ or Nevada. Gambling has never really done much of anything except enrich those who own the casino's.

Slot Machines at the Horse track is the newest proposal. There aren't enough degenerate gamblers left to make horse racing profitable will slot machines really change that?

[RebelOne]

26. I don't think so.

I'd go broke. I love to gamble. But I live in Georgia, so I doubt that we would ever get a casino in the near future. They just recently banned all the video poker machines.

[drdigi420]

34. which shows how backwards Georgia is

outlawing gambling doesnt stop gambling, it only removes all regulation and control from gambling.

same with drugs

same with prostitution

same with guns


It just doesnt work.

[MadHound]

28. I live in Missouri

And gambling here is starting to turn a bit sour. We have riverboat gambling, with loss limits. However those loss limits can be easily gotten around. Addiction is a problem that is starting to rear it's ugly head. And while these ugly boats don't make much of a difference to the scenery in big cities like KC and St. Louis(waterfronts were already a bit of an eyesore), but on the waterfronts of the little towns, like Booneville, these establishments have made what was once beautiful into an ugly eyesore(neon, lots and lots of neon). And beware of the promise that gambling money will go to education. What happened here in Missouri, both with the lottery and gambling, is that while gambling money did go into education, the normal monies that education pulled out of General Revenue got cut to zero. This meant no net gain in education funding, and in some years a loss. Crime stats have also gone up a bit. I have a friend who works at a womans' shelter, and she has told me that there has been an upswing in domestic abuse cases that is directly linked to gambling. Prostitution has gone up, along with petty theft. And while there were viable waterfront businesses before gambling, most of them have gotten shoved out by the boats, bars, topless joints and pawn shops.

All in all I think that gambling has been a serious negative for our state. I wouldn't recommend it for yours.

[VermontDem2004]

29. I have a Casino in my state

but only on the reservations. I guess the experience has been good because the money in the Casinos is too fund stuff like reservation schools and so much other things.

[salin]

31. Do be cautious of tying gambling to school funds.... unintended

consequences in a number of places. Am most familiar with this with the "Lottery" issue - but would guess that the gambling/casino issue would be similar.

In the eighties numerous states started lotteries. Its for the Schools! This would provide "extra" money for schools.

First economic down turn, cut school funding from the regular sources - because after all, the schools also get the lottery money...

However lottery money goes up and down.

In the end - less stable sources of funding for schools, little net change in overall funding for schools, and no "extra" funding for schools. (Lotteries were often sold as "extra" e.g., new buildings, after school programs, etc.)

There are many pros and cons - as can be seen in this thread.

The one thing I would caution against, is using the "its for the schools" argument to sway ones vote.

[drdigi420]

33. YES YES YES YES

Laws against gambling are just as counter-productive as laws against drug use, prostitution, and gun ownership.

They do NOTHING to stop the activities they are against, they only turn over control of these activities to UNREGULATED criminals.

We tried outlawing booze - major disaster.
We tried outlawing other drugs - even BIGGER disaster.
We tried outlawing guns - just gave criminals something else to sell.
We tried outlawing gambling, it just drove it underground.

Outlawing consentual activities DOES NOT WORK, EVER!

No victim = no crime

It's time we get back to a FREE country where the only crimes are committed against another person or property.

[MadHound]

43. Tell you what DrDigi, can we put a casino next door to you?

Along with all of it's attendant side businesses, eyesores and crime?

I'm not against all gambling, I think it is fine in areas that have developed for it and planned for it, ie Las Vegas, Atlantic City, etc. But indiscriminately throwing down casinos in small towns that aren't ready for it ruins them. They are ill equipped to deal with all of the attendant social and enviromental damage that comes along with a casino.

[bif]

36. We have them in our state

But no, I don't want them here.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

39. Gambling is a tax on people who can't do math

Casinos are the economic equivalent of a leech. They do not create value or wealth, they merely redistribute it from people who are innumerate to con artists.

[wuushew]

41. Exactly and those people are not rich they are poor and elderly

the libertarians on this board need to take a back seat to the noble marxist arguments on this board which show that gambling causes wealth to flow from the poor to the rich, further ruining our already shitty culture. All gambling has a negative return, which is in effect paying for the privellage to lose. I have nothing against Indian gambling but I find state sponsored gambling hypocritical in the same way that sin taxes are designed to maximize revenue and not eliminate the problem. Also when invariably all states have gambling there will be no advantage to building them and you will countless unproductive properties that add squat to tax relief forcing either tax hikes or budget cuts.

[graham67]

44. Casinos, etc.

I'm within 20 miles of a dog track/casino and a horse racing track/casino. It does bring in some extra tourism from as far away as Canada, especially during Christmastime when there are travel packages sold to tourists. The jobs are rather low-paying and most people I've known who work at the places hated it. There has been no increase at all in crime and I don't think it's lowered property taxes a bit.

[sendero]

51. Open and shut...

1) To people who expected to actually see their tax bills go down, I say Bwaaawhshahahahahahah :) Perhaps they did not go up as fast?

2) People are going to do what they want. If someone wants to gamble, there are many ways to do it, I for one would prefer to keep the action in my tax jurisdiction

3) Crime? Is Las Vegas a crime capital? This is about as honest as the "for the children" argument that folks fall back on when the have no real case.

The only caveat I would be concerned about is not letting some sharkskin suited shark get ridiculous tax concessions from the city/state official. Those are almost never a good deal for the city/state.

[ShaneGR]

52. I'm in Ohio, and I would vote a BIG YES

Thousands of Ohioans travel to Michigan, West Virginia, Canada, and Las Vegas to do their gambling. They spend billions of dollars, in different states. The communities they go to prosper 1000-fold. Why should we continue to suffer massive deficits and under-funded education? I say build them.