Why people should vote for Dennis Kucinich

[Mairead]

You know a situation is bad when it starts being reflected in slice-of-life cartoons.

[RebelOne]

1. He's got my vote.

[mmm]

2. Dennis is the only choice

I will fight for Dennis to win

[RichM]

3. I've been sold on Dennis since I read "A Prayer for America" last year.

[Mairead]

4. That's what grabbed me, too! I was feeling real despair

and thinking very seriously of emigrating back to Canada or Scotland, some place still sane. Dennis's speech seriously inspired me.

[ThirdWheelLegend]

45. Same here

It was last year, but more precise February of last year. It is now 1 year 8 months ago. Closing in on two years ago. Well before any of the 'candidates' were holding their fingers in the air to see which direction the wind was blowing.

A friend of mine who works for a ClearChannel station printed it out for me because of course that ass Glenn Beck was talking about how unamerican it was or something like that.

I read it and my first thought was, 'I wish he would run for President.'
Because so many people felt the same way he was eventually 'drafted.'

I have not stopped supporting him since.

TWL

[spindoctor]

51. I second....no third that. However....

I am starting to wonder about the NAFTA-thing.
This is probably not the right thread for this discussion, but I changed my mind on the whole free trade issue.

That means I am no longer 100% behind Kucinich. Will 95 do?

[Mairead]

55. Will 95 do?

Sure. Why not? I'm only about 98-99 myself

How about starting a thread on your issues?

[JohnKleeb]

57. heh 95 is fine dont worry about it

and only 98-99.

[Cronus Protagonist]

61. Here's a link to Prayer for America

http://cronus.com/prayer

Click Here To See Fair & Balanced Buttons, Stickers & Magnets

[tlcandie]

5. From what I see, there will be many riding his wave...

I always refer to it KucinichTsunami2Win! I think that a lot of his supporters are underground and that it will be a slow, growing, mounting, building campaign that will appear out of nowhere and take the win...hence tsunami.

I think many will flock to him, to his light, vision and hope, as the days go by. His supporters stand out from the rest IMO...generally speaking and in a good way!

Go DK!! :bounce:

[quispquake]

6. He now has my vote too...

He's the one closest to my own views on Iraq, NAFTA, & health care...I know a lot of folks don't think he could win...I feel, even if not (and I hope he does), it's worth donating to him and keeping him in the race to keep these issues on the table...

I don't feel too many politicians are honest...Kucinich I truly believe feels what he says...even my mother loves him, and hopes he wins...

pp23

[Lydia Leftcoast]

7. The number of DK supporters

seems to be growing, not shrinking, and the level of enthusiasm is high. Three months before the first caucus, this is a good sign.

[Nederland]

11. When

So when can we expect to see his poll numbers rise above, say, Al Sharpton's?

[Lydia Leftcoast]

14. All I know is what I see

When I go to community events, I see enthusiastic Dean, Clark, and Kucinich supporters and occasionally one or two subdued supporters of Kerry and Edwards. I've never seen anyone supporting Lieberman or Gephardt. This is precisely the opposite of what one would expect from the Gallup and Zogby polls. The situation is similar with bumperstickers. I've seen bumperstickers only for Dean and Kucinich, none for any other candidate.

I don't know who the pollsters are polling, unless it's people who haven't been following the Dem candidates closely enough to operate on anything more than name recognition. And on the basis of name recognition, Lieberman, Gephardt, and Kerry "win." Their number of visible active supporters at this point, three months before the first real test in Iowa, is so small as to be invisible, though, so I have to wonder how much vitality their campaigns actually have. They may be cleaning up on the $2000 a plate circuit, but they haven't made a dent in the enthusiastic supporter sector, at least not where I live.

[Nederland]

16. I see

The old "everybody I know supports him, so the polls must be wrong..." fallacy.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

21. So who has activists present at community events in your town?

Just wondering.

[Nederland]

27. Dean (nt)

[LeahMira]

71. Polls wrong?

The old "everybody I know supports him, so the polls must be wrong..." fallacy.

So much in polling depends on the sample and on the way the question is phrased. Polls can give an indication of where people are, but unless they are very carefully managed they really don't do a whole lot more than just indicate.

[Nederland]

73. Of Course

But you have to realize that political polls haven't failed to correctly predict the outcome of a presidential race within their published margin of error in over twenty years. To say that in New Hampshire Howard Dean is at 29% and Kucinich is at 1% and claim the poll is 'wrong' is naive. Polls may miss by 3 or 4 percentage points (the typical MOE) but they aren't that wrong.

[OneBlueSky]

8. I'va also decided to vote for Dennis in the primary . . .

yes, I have my doubts about electibility . . . but I think we need to get the message out that DK's positions have wide support withing the party . . . might influence whoever gets the nomination to give them some serious consideration . . .

whatever the outcome of the nominating process, I'm becoming more and more convinced that none of the current crop of candidates can beat Bush . . . he can become a wartime president anytime he wishes, he'll have a huge warchest to attack the candidate, and the Republicans will control the voting process in key states and key precincts through unauditable electronic voting . . . my hope is that four or five candidates get about an equal number of delegates, and that a deadlocked convention is forced to look for a compromise candidate . . . someone like Al Gore, perhaps . . . I'm pretty sure that won't happen, but it seems to me that it's the only chance we'll have of avoiding "four more years" . . . and that prospect scares the shit out of me . . .

[revcarol]

9. As one who has NO medical coverage, after spending $8000 for

"hospitalization only" coverage, I can only say how helpless I feel against the big insurance companies. I discontinued my $1996 a quarter "hospitalization only" coverage because I ran out of money. This expense just put me out of the middle class. Hunting around for a free clinic and sliding scale medical tests and medicine at reasonable prices was a full time occupation for a while.

I support DK for single-payer health coverage, support of unions,dumping NAFTA and the WTO, and other reasons, but knowing at first hand what it is like to be an uninsured person has solidified my support into cement.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

20. Another uninsured person here

When I left Portland, the insurance I had there was sceduled to become unaffordable at the beginning of 2004. I would have been forced to drop it, since it was sometimes hard to make even the 2002 premium payments, given my variable income.(When I first enrolled in 1994, it was very affordable.)

Now in Minneapolis, I haven't been able to find insurance that doesn't either cost more than I can afford or require large upfront payments that I can't afford.

I'm waiting till the end of November, when I'm expecting a large payment, and then I'll start a medical savings account, which seems to be the least bad of a selection of very bad deals. And I'm supposedly in a state that is "good" on medical insurance.

I'm pretty healthy, but I'm just praying that nothing drastic happens between now and the end of November.

Do we need to do something about our health care system that takes it out of the hands of the private-gouging insurance companies. Hell, yes!

[Mairead]

26. And another uninsured person here

Dennis and Al absolutely have the only completely pro-people policies in the bunch.

[lcordero]

10. I feel that he is the closest to my views

He has a proven voting record.
He seems more honest and has a backbone.
He is responsive to the people that he serves.

on edit: He has never had to rely on getting a freebie on past performance.

[JohnKleeb]

12. good as reason if any

:kick:
Why I support him?
He talks of what America should be. I am 16 years old(I stayed home sick) and there have been 4 wars in my life by my country: Gulf War I, Kosovo, Afghanstan, and Gulf War II, now they werent large scale like WWII but they are wars, and frankly I am sick of war being common place, Dennis Kucinich shares that attiude. Although this may sound weird coming from someone as young as I am, labor is a big issue for me and when I heard that he had came out for repealing the Taft-Hartley Act I was amazed. He opposes the horrible death penalty. He speaks to and from the heart. He knows what poverty is like first hand. Kucinich for President- hope during despair.

[WindRavenX]

15. Remember..

he HAS flip flopped on the abortion issue in the past. As long as he swears he will vote pro-choice as President, I have no problems with past mistakes.

[JohnKleeb]

18. Yes, I didnt like that

You mean support pro choice policies. I wouldnt worry about that.
http://www.kucinich.us/issues/issue_rightsreproductive.htm
Good that you are forgiving. I know you support Kerry, and Ive forgiven him for IWR a whiles ago.

[WindRavenX]

19. I'm forgiving

I think too many people expect canidates to fit their own personal beliefs 100% or be perfect. Kerry's flawed, Kuchinich is flawed, Dean is flawed- they've all made mistakes that I don't like, but that shouldn't mean that they can't make a difference for the better. Am I going to be petty just beause Kerry may not get the nomination? Hell no. If Dean wins, he gets my vote with blessings. Same with DK. The bottom line is, Bush needs one of these guys to deliver a swift kick up the ass to Bush.
Because DK or Kerry made a mistake, that shouldn't keep them from being President. Any of these guys would be a HUUUUGE joy to have instead of the dipshit in command..
/rant

[JohnKleeb]

22. exactly

Its Kucinich btw heh its ok. Well he does fit most of my beliefs, I have respect for the guy, among others. I think had it not been for IWR, Senator Kerry would be viewed in higher regard here at DU, just my opinion.

[WindRavenX]

23. Sorry!

The man has a trick last name, I can barely pronounce it right :hi:
I'm just sick of canidate bashing. Glad you're open minded JK!!! :D

[JohnKleeb]

25. Thanks

Yeah I am sick of it too. Heh indeed it is a hard to spell last name, I have some of those on my mom's side. I am sick of candiate bashing too. I had a hard time pronouncing and spelling it intially myself. He even had this thing on his website where he pronounces it, and jokes that even he couldnt spell it at first.

[MuseRider]

28. Personally

I would not call his abortion stance a flip flop but that is just me. I would not be a supporter of his if I did not believe his decision was a long, heart felt decision and one he holds as solid. For me, one of the things I most respect is his conviction. I trust this man and that, for me, is a huge thing.

[WindRavenX]

13. If he wins the nomination, he has my vote

The problem is, most of America doesn't know what's best for them.
I like him,aside from a few rude snaps in the debates, but I am afraid he cannot be elected. He's perceived as a fringe element of the left, and whether or not you agree with that statement, if people see him as that, he will not get many votes.
On edit: especially concerning his economic policies, he is very unpopular with middle-raod Americans. I can't say I disagree with them there.

[Padraig18]

17. If he wins the nomination...

... he will have my unqualified and enthusiastic support. I will knock on doors for him until my knuckles bleed, make phone calls for his campaign until my ears are sore, donate money, etc., because I am a Democrat, as is DK . :hi:

[Desertrose]

24. what inspires me about Dennis is he offers hope....

when was the last time a candidate did that...uhm, let me rephrase that...WAS there ever a candidate who had the vision...really truly had it ..not just the proper phrasing??

IMO Dennis has that...it is time to take the high road in our actions...many talk the talk but few actually walk it. Dennis does and it's been proven by his actions - his life.

I want someone I can trust ..... who understands what its like to have no healthcare or to be stuck in a lowpaying job. I like that he cares about these things not just for 'Murikans but for all the people of the planet..... Dept of Peace....what a concept! How can anyone say we don't need one...do they look at the news??

I agree with him on the issues about 99%......
And yes, I also agree that much of his campaign is NOT reflected in polls ...but that doesn't mean its not happening...because it is!!

(Love the Tsunami reference!!! :thumbsup:)

Dennis Kucinich....Dare to Dream!!

Peace
DR

[MuseRider]

29. Reagan

was effective because he made people feel good about themselves. Dennis makes people feel good and important. All of his policies are people based and he spreads hope that the human race can be better. I just reread your post and I agree, Reagan said it but did not live it, however he made a successful career saying it.

[Hep]

30. Tell me how he can pass his HC plan through congress

And I'll donate $25 to his campaign.

[Hep]

31. but

you have to convince me.

[JohnKleeb]

32. convince me that congress will be GOP dominated

and that your candiate of choice can pass his or hers first. Everyone acts like a GOP dominated congress will be hard on Dennis and that it would but we saw how they were with Clinton, what makes you think they are gonna be all easy with who ever it is. Same thing with DK getting smeared during the campaign, they are gonna do that to everyone, why you think just because hes a liberal he cant rebunk. Sorry for the anger again but tell me why you think your guy is gonna have it just as easy and that congress will be in the paws of the GOP in a few years.

[Hep]

34. not the point

convince me that congress will be GOP dominated and that your candiate of choice can pass his or hers first.

OK, so you failed. It's alright. Congress doesn't have to be GOP dominated for a democrat's bill to fail. Look at how many D's cross over and vote with the R's on every bill that has come through. And whether or not MY candidate can pass a bill has nothing to do with what I asked you, but I'll help you out. My candidate's HC plan has the support of drug companies, doctors, and insurance companies. My candidate's ideas for HC have ALREADY worked. Road tested. But this is supposed toi be a thread where you talk up YOUR candidatenot where you address mine. Even thought the last Kucinich meetup I heard about consisted of about 50% talking about K and 50% talking about MY candidate. SO I forgive you this.

Everyone acts like a GOP dominated congress will be hard on Dennis and that it would but we saw how they were with Clinton, what makes you think they are gonna be all easy with who ever it is.

It depends. But Kucinich stands to the left of most D's in congress. And lots of other D candidates don't. Thayt's important to remember. And yes, a GOP congress will be hard on any D. But it comes down to the bills that they submit to congress.

Same thing with DK getting smeared during the campaign, they are gonna do that to everyone, why you think just because hes a liberal he cant rebunk. Sorry for the anger again but tell me why you think your guy is gonna have it just as easy and that congress will be in the paws of the GOP in a few years.

Hey, I don't mind the anger. I understand. But this is about YOUR guy. I'll happily start another thread about MY guy if you want to ask the same questions. But answering my challenge with a question and not an answer isn't going to get your guy my donation.

[TLM]

36. Clinton tried this with a dem congress... and still failed.

We can't go from A to Z in one step... it won't work. There are too many forces fighting it.

It sounds great, but I want something that can work and get passed.


That's why I support Dean. He moves in the right direction in steps that can be accomplished. He gets the job done, rather than having really great ideas that fail... then having nothing.

[Padraig18]

38. My doctor

My doctor's opinion about the various candidate's HC proposals is that Dean's is the only workable one.

[loyalsister]

43. Not just doctors

I've heard this from doctors AND legislators. I would love to see a single payer plan pass, but it's just not going to happen. It's not just business that isn't ready, voters aren't ready for it. It still makes MANY people very nervous to consider the idea of universal health care. They aren't ready to go all the way to something so drastic as single payer.

[Mairead]

40. Clinton did NOT try this -- get your facts straight, please

This has been brought out many, many times now: the Clintons' plan was a complicated, for-profit one just like Dean's. It was not single payer, it was not non-profit, and it could not be explained in a way that anyone could understand, which made it easy prey to the 'Harry and Louise' shtick.

[Mairead]

37. How open are you to being convinced?

Dennis's plan will pass because

- it is simple enough to be explained easily

- it is both the lowest-cost program and the only one that provides complete coverage (though I might be selling Al and/or CMB short, here)

- it is expected to, in general, reduce the cost to business

- it expands on a longstanding program that has wide popular support

- his implementation scheme is a gradualist one (that's the only part I know of that I don't like)

- he will have no hesitation to use the 'fireside chat' model to coerce Congress into forsaking the insurance lobbyists

[Hep]

39. I'm quite open

And you're doing a great job so far. So who bears the brunt of this program? And when you say reduces the cost to business, does that mean employers who provide the healthcare? And who administers the healthcare program?

Seriously, I'm halfway to making a donation.

[Mairead]

42. Great!

About half the needed money is already being collected during taxation and spent on healthcare in various complicated ways. Those monies would continue to be spent, but in less-complicated ways, saving on administrative costs.

The other half would come from a 7.7% tax on business payrolls, similar to FICA. Currently, the businesses that offer healthcare pay an estimated average 'tax' (premium) of 8.5%. So Dennis's plan would be perceived by more generous companies as a net reduction in their burden, and take it off the table as a recruitment issue for less-generous companies. (It would also force really sucky companies such as WalMart to pay their fair share instead of dodging the costs as they now do.) An additional selling point is that, when people can get healthcare without breaking their budget, they won't wait til they're half-dead. Which should mean much less productivity lost to sickness.

I don't actually know the complete story on administration. Currently Medicare is being administered by the insurance companies who profit from healthcare generally, with second-level auditing being done by some government office (the GAO? I'm not sure). If I were going to choose, I might shift administration to the SSA, since they're already administering a very similar program and mostly doing it both efficiently and humanely (I speak from personal experience).

(edit: changed 'profit from it' to 'profit from healthcare generally')

[Hep]

47. the expense

You said that businesses would be "taxed" 7.7%. Would that be reflected on my paycheck in some way. That is, would the expense be passed on tot he worker?

Also, what about this plan makes it attractive to doctors or drug companies? Or does it have an affect? And why hasn't something like this already been done, considering that it is cheapre for employers?

You're providing great answers. I'm really enjoying the discussion and learning a lot. I'll give the K man my donation.

[Mairead]

65. Great about the donation, thanks!!

As to the expense being reflected in your pay, I don't know. Do you have insurance from your employer now? (presuming you still have a job!) If you do, is it reflected in your pay? I had insurance at most of my jobs, and I really couldn't say whether it somehow impacted my salary. I imagine it probably varies with the industry and the position one holds...we can be sure that CEOs, for instance, never suffer, but someone on the shop floor? I'm cynical, so I'll bet 'yes', that it does now and will in future too. But maybe not!

On the 'attractive to docs', my guess would be simpler billing, a more predictable income stream, more opportunity to 'do medicine', and--I'm guessing a bit here--reduced malpractice costs. I'm presuming the reduced malpractice since a doc who does bad work won't be as easily able to dodge by changing states, hospitals, and plans. Similarly, someone who defrauds Medicare today can often continue to practice without Medicare, if they escape prison. I shouldn't think that would work when Medicare is the single payer. On the 'do medicine' part, a number of physicians have completely bailed out of the field (after all those expensive years!) because HMOs were continually rushing them, and plenty others have cheerfully taken a big income hit by going independent (my doc was one of the latter). So I think 'do medicine' will be quite important.

As far as drug companies go, I'm stumped. I can't imagine what they'd get out of it, unless it's that, with more people able to get care when they need it, the drug companies will make it up in volume as they do in Canada and the UK. They really do make out like bandits now.

I think it hasn't been done before in part because the situation has never been this bad, with so much wealth concentration, and in part (this is something I'm only partly remembering, so perhaps someone else remembers it too and better) because it's the details of Dennis's plan that make it one of those 'oh good grief why didn't I think of that' ideas. It takes a certain attitude of mind to think of this particular solution rather than some other.

I hope I've given value for your donation!

[Lydia Leftcoast]

33. Reagan got his tax cut plan passed

by going on TV and asking the American people to lobby their Congress persons. Of course, he lied about what the tax cut would actually include. I doubt that many would have supported it if they had realized that some of the deductions then available to the middle class (consumer and student loan interest, charitable contributions for non-itemizers) would be eliminated to pay for corporate tax cuts and special favors to individual corporations.

But he did use public pressure to get the "reform" passed.

[Hep]

35. yeah

but Reagan was a popular president with the people, and he predated the kind of right wing onslaught we're experiencing in the media.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

41. But Reagan was also *unpopular* with a large segment

of the population. In fact, it was revealed after he was out of office that his "popularity" had never been as high as claimed.

He didn't have to convince the whole population of his tax cut. Just enough so that the Congress critters would take notice.

And if you haven't heard DK speak in person, you have no idea how persuasive he is. Those little sound bites he gets on TV (less time than any other candidate in the NM debates) are no indication of what he is capable.

[Hep]

44. well

I was in the audience on Crossfire when he appeared, what, back in february or something?

And I've seen him during the debates. I'm not that impressed with his speaking. He's no better or worse than any of the others. But I like Kucinich even though I'm still very skeptical that he can get elected, or get anything done if he is. I'm open, though, as I've said before.

[loyalsister]

46. This is where DK loses

I know a Republican Dr who says he used to live in Canada. He speaks frequently about how he couldn't do the best for his patients because of their health care system. How much airtime do you think would be devoted to THAT commercial if DK were pushing his plan?
People aren't ready.

[MuseRider]

48. These days here in the good ole

Us of A the docs are lucky to give even short shrift to their patients. Having been a nurse before the DRG's and seeing how it went from good but expensive to barely adequate but more expensive to now when you have to stay with your loved ones in the hospital and pay bank breaking payments forever after and get really POOR care from everyone I would say this is a huge step up. I have not looked and I should but I would think this would help the docs with less paperwork, less hassles with the insurance MBA's who say what the docs think is needed is really not etc. Having been in health care and having just spent a month and a half with my dying brother in the hospital I can tell you there is NO CARE even in a good hospital and we saw the docs once a day if we were lucky, nobody on weekends. We need serious change and my husband who was a doc thinks the plan would work. Just my thoughts, no small change will help this now.

[piece sine]

49. Vote for Dennis

and elect Bush..no thank you. Been there, done that. I want a candidate who will win. Dennis, Al, Carol, Joe...see yah.

[Ficus]

50. Dennis K is well liked,

But everyone just assumes that no one else supports him, so their vote or caucusing would be wasted.

Don't take your cues on how to vote from the media.

:dem: :dem:

[JohnKleeb]

52. I would have loved that too

Wellstone, I really liked him and Iowa has a senator I admire much too, Senator Harkin. Youre right and welcome to DU, and I hope other people get this too.

[spindoctor]

54. Bullshit

What does the good doctor compare this too? People on wellfare, medicaid, some HMO's, or the ones that have no insurance at all?

I am sure that people who pay a lot of money for their insurance get their money's worth, but in the firs place there will be no need to cancel private insurance for those who can and chose to pay it.
In the second place, there is no need for healthcare under a social insurance system to be restricted.

If the Candian system fails, then Canada needs to fix it. There are other examples that work just fine.

[Loyal]

53. I can give you reasons

NOT to vote for him in the primary. I'll vote for him in the GE, but not in the primary, because he flip-flops on important issues, and then acts very hypocritically with his Iraq attacks on other candidates. Kucinich is attacking Kerry and Dean while he is faced with his past 6 year ANTI-CHOICE voting record. Let me tell you, it is sooooo progressive to have been anti-choice. NOT! And I know how Gephardt was anti-choice until the late 80s, but Gephardt is not marketing himself to the far left and the Greens. Kucinich is doing exactly that. Kucinich is standing in a glass house, but no one bothers to break it. Why? Because he's not a threat at the moment. He has no chance at the nomination, never having garnered more than 3-4% in a nationwide poll, IIRC. He is even trailing Dean or Gephardt(can't remember which) in polls of his HOME STATE of Ohio. If you can't even carry your home state in the primary, you're not a very convincing candidate. All of the top and middle tier candidates will most likely carry their home states, with Moseley-Braun, Sharpton(NY), and Kucinich very unlikely to accomplish even this. Kucinich is a fringe candidate, simply put.

[Ficus]

56. Ok so he did vote pro-life

While it is true that Dennis had a pro-life voting record, I believe that he is the only person of the 9 candidates running who actually voted against the USA PATRIOT Act. Actually, aside from Bob G. who dropped out, everyone voted for the war, or didn't have real jobs to risk (Dean, Sharpton, Braun, etc), and who the hell knows what Wesley Clark really thinks about the war?

Fringe candidate or not, he has the best health care plan - and the most progressive record of voting of ANYONE running, save his votes on abortion. And he's the co-head of the Progressive Caucus in congress :

http://bernie.house.gov/pc/index.asp

He's not "marketing" himself as a Green Democrat - he actually is.

:dem: :dem:

[Loyal]

58. Perhaps you could actually address my points?

He is standing in a GLASS HOUSE. He was a rabid religious anti-choicer for 6 years and is now pushing other candidates for the Iraq vote.

[Loyal]

59. Btw,

I just love it how some people on here hate religion but use Kucinich's religion as an excuse for his anti-choice record. You can't have it both way, folks. If it's wrong for the Pope or another religious figure to oppose homosexuality because of his religion, it's wrong for Dennis to oppose abortion because of his religion...

[tlcandie]

62. I guess Gore should not have ran then since he didn't carry his home state

Hmmm I was pro-life once. Pro-choice now. So do you need to kick me from the democrat list? Sorry that I changed my view and that I didn't stagnate.

I just hate stagnate people. They become all stinky, narrow-minded, things kind of like Rush.

This seems to be the ONLY purported flip-flop for Kucinich.

Actually, come to think of something I read recently. I think the word CHANGE is what is keeping people from voting or backing from Kucinich.

CHANGE=FEAR for a lot of folks it seems. Norm, routine, familiar.. NOW THAT IS WHAT SELLS and gets one elected!! Woot!


KucinichTsunami2Win! :hi:

EDIT: He's isn't religious. He has never nor will never push any religion onto anyone, sorry to burst your bubble. Do you have documentation for that? Pushing the Iraq vote? Also, regarding CHANGE, what I meant was that a LITTLE change is good, but not anything overly much. You know comfort zones and all.

Second Edit: So, because I don't totally fit the democratic profile then I should remove myself as a dem voter then? It's all or nothing you are saying? I see. Black/white no grey area or room for movement, change, life, nothing, eh?

[Loyal]

63. Medical marijuana

another flip-flop. It's so compassionate to keep medicine away from sick people. Love your boy. :puke:

[tlcandie]

64. Lots of hugs to you Loyal ..

Good luck with your candidate... no puking from me either! :D :hug: And thanks for the compliment...we do love our Kucinich!!

[Loyal]

68. Thanks...

I will still vote Kucinich in the GE, but I won't have to. I am not trying to be mean or be an asshole, but he does have no chance. If he somehow manages to get the nomination, I will vote for him, because I am ABB.

[Loyal]

69. Thanks...

I will still vote Kucinich in the GE, but I won't have to. I am not trying to be mean or be an asshole, but he does have no chance. If he somehow manages to get the nomination, I will vote for him, because I am ABB. Understand though that this is the primary, and I am picking the best candidate.

[Ficus]

66. you should love my boy

You may believe he flip-flops - but doesn't try to paint himself as anything other than he is.

Just observing how the candidates portray themselves here, looking at their whole message - you have Dean who is a moderate trying to be a liberal, Kerry who is a liberal who is trying to be a moderate, Liebermann who is a liberal and is trying to portray himself as a conservative, Gephardt, who is a moderate trying to be anything other than himself, and Edwards who is a lawyer trying to be a politician. Sharpton and Braun don't even campaign as anything but at least show up at the debates.

Most of these people are running because it is the next step in their political careers. I REALLY don't get that sense with Dennis K like I do with John Kerry, Dick Gephardt, General Clark, or Howard Dean.

Dennis K may be a greenie leftist type, but he's not trying to be anything other than he is. And I'm guessing medical marajuana isn't going to be a huge issue this cycle.


:dem: :dem:

[Loyal]

67. Kerry is a moderate

He always has been, and he always will be. I support him because he is the best there is, next to Al Gore of course.

[JohnKleeb]

70. Kerry has quite a liberal record, you know damn well that I like him

Although IWR bugs the shit out of me, I forgave him for it.

[Loyal]

72. thanks

nt

[JohnKleeb]

74. Yea

Dont deny that lol that Kerry has a liberal record come on dude heh. If he were a moderate I dont think he would be voting with a certain guy named Ted 94% of the time would he.

[Loyal]

75. He's a moderate though,

I mean he is somewhat of a fiscal conservative. He supports the balanced budget and fiscal responsibility, and supports free trade and opening of global markets. I would say that he is center-left, so that would make him a centrist still, in my view.

[JohnKleeb]

76. Yea I know

Liberal Centrist :shrug: I dunno

[Loyal]

77. Moderate Liberal

is what I would characterize him as.

[leftyandproud]

60. bump!

[onebigbadwulf]

78. The problem

The problem is that by voting Kucinich you take away votes from real contenders and make it possible for a 2nd or 3rd rate candidate to win - Clark for example.

It's like voting for Nadar in 2000.

The solution?

ENCOURAGE THE DEMOCRATIC CANDIDATE TO MAKE KUCINICH SECRETARY OF STATE. HE would make a MUCH better cabinet member than president. Write him 10 letters a day and FORCE the real candidate to make kucinich a top dog.

It is the best solution I see.

[Mairead]

79. The solution

The same amount of work needed for your solution is all that's needed to elect Dennis to the Presidency.

[Deja Q]

80. A sad cartoon - read this, y'all, read this

America is in the shitter right now.

Whoever is nominated, THAT is when we need to scrutinize our candidate.

If the candidate isn't for real reforms and isn't for the people, then we must vote elsewhere. We need change, not a continuation of policies which will destroy us in the end.

This means if I get banned or if I disappear, you'll know why. There's no point in voting against Bush if the replacement won't do jack splat for the issues which are about to destroy this country's infrastructure. That is a fact, not a blind desire to get anybody to vote for some other third party, don't ask me for any specific names... You haven't seen me name any non-Democratic candidates, nor will I. I know Kucinich will address the core issues that need addressing.

The medical industry is the biggest problem we've got and EVERY Democratic candidate MUST look at real reform. Reform that helps everybody, not just the fucking insurance salesmen or doctors who are responsible for the outlandish fees being charged. Sheesh, if people still don't realize that the cost of medical care is at the point where living to pay it off becomes more of a nightmare than a blessing, why the fuck continue to live at all? And how our "bottom line" industry will discriminate against anybody with a "pre-existing condition" (think about that for a while and especially when you have to reveal your history on more than just enrollment forms...)

Indeed, my shrink sessions costs - let's say - $100/hr, though it's probably somewhere close to $150 (fortunately my insurance covers it, mainly because the clinic is also my direct isurance provider). He has 8 clients in a day. That adds up to $208000 per year. He makes $60k per year (which is a lot considering even Oscar the Grouch can just sit there and listen and sympathize to a person whining and crying for that fifty minute session and say something of relevance in return.) Where does the other $148000 go? And this is for one counselor, of which there are 4 others in the complex. And that's for mental health alone. The same complex also does dental, vision, hearing, general practicing, et cetera.

[Mairead]

81. ABC/WP poll: Strong public support for Dennis's Medicare-for-all

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=563496