Watching Alabama Crumble

[donsu]

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/10/20/opinion/20MON3.html?ex=1067648320&ei=1&en=76976db9a1c9f7a5

What Alabama's Low-Tax Mania Can Teach the Rest of the Country

The budget ax is swinging in Alabama, and the carnage is piling up. A hundred and fifty fewer low-income AIDS patients will receive life-saving medicines from the state. Fifteen thousand low-income Alabamians may lose their hypertension drugs.

High Hopes, a program that offers after-school tutoring to students who fail the high school graduation exam, is being slashed. And up to 1,500 poor children and adults with Down syndrome, autism and other disabilities will not be able to attend a state-supported special-needs camp.

The cuts are reaching down to core government functions. The court system is laying off 500 of 1,600 workers, from clerk's office employees to probation officers. The health department is losing investigators who track tuberculosis, and sharply reducing restaurant inspections.

-snip-

Governor Riley's setback last month is being hailed by national antitax forces as a great victory. But if Alabama heads into next year without additional revenues, students may have to learn without textbooks, prisoners may be released early, and people may start dying of preventable diseases. We should all pay attention, because if the "starve the beast" crowd continues to prevail in Washington, as goes Alabama so may go the nation.
---------------------------------

[alexwcovington]

1. yay!

Let's hear it for our new straw man! Give 'em a hand, this is great cannon fodder!

[liberalhistorian]

2. Alabama also suffers from one of the worst

regressive taxes in the country, the lower your income, the higher your taxes and not the other way around, as it should be. I would say the hell with them, they'll get what they voted for and what they deserve, but since that means that thousands and thousands of innocent people will suffer as well, I can't do that.

[mhr]

3. Republicans Dream of A Permanent Underclass

This makes for more people to Lord over and control.

Apparently, the American public believes in submission and servitude since resistance is mute.

[damnraddem]

4. Wow, take the graven image of the Ten Commandments ...

out of a court building, and this is what results. ;-)

Well, just wait: when things get bad enough in Alabama, this is what the Religious Right will blame.

[Bozita]

6. Yeah ... the state just crumbled after they took the monument away.

We're all gonna hear it soon.

[forgethell]

5. Alabamians

might have voted for more taxes, if they did not, on a day-today basis seen where most of it goes. Into the politicians pockets. Into the paychecks of teachers that cannot teach. My daughter's chemistry teacher knows NOTHING about chemistry, and I am having to tutor her myself. And the shame of it is, most Alabama politicians are LIBERAL DEMOCRATS, who, it turns out, can be every bit as corrupt as any Republican. the tax didn't even do well among the people that it was supposed to help. When something is that unpopular, politicans should ask themselves WHY?

[Bridget Burke]

7. So, ALL the teachers are worthless?

Or just the Chemistry teacher? What did the principal say when you complained about his/her incompetence?

Also, please clue us in to the famous "Liberal" Democratic Alabama politicians. There aren't enough Southern Liberals & we could be inspired by their words of wisdom.

As a Texan, I'd like to thank you for creating the state even Texans can look down on. However, I'm sure there are SOME Alabamians who don't deserve it.

[WilliamPitt]

8. My father is one

Chairman of the Democratic Party in Alabama.

Many of the state legislators are liberals.

Inform yourself:

www.aladems.org

It's a funny, funny day when Texans go after Alabama. Two poster children fighting under a blanket.

[Brian Sweat]

17. From where do these Alabama liberals hail?

[WilliamPitt]

25. Well, my father is from Decatur

As for the others, do some research.

[Classical_Liberal]

28. Was it your intention to lend credence to this idea that

liberal democrats are responsible for the crisis in Alabama, because that is what your reflexive defense of Alabama liberals actually looks like.

[WilliamPitt]

32. That is not my claim

I am pre-emptively attenpting to defuse any knee-jerk Bama bashing, as there is a family connection.

[Classical_Liberal]

34. I am not fond pre-emptive strikes myself as they are often based

on flimsy evidence and mind reading. Why is criticism of Alabama budget slashing a personal slap at your relative. Did your relative vote to slash the budget for hypertention drugs?

[WilliamPitt]

36. My relative - my father - is not an elected official

as was clearly described, and therefore does not have a vote.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

9. As far as I'm concerned, Texas is so low on the totem pole...

...that it doesn't deserve to be recognized as part of the United States. I'd personally like to dynamite the borders of Texas and shove the entire state into the Gulf of Mexico.

Your arrogance, as is true of MOST Texans, is truly astounding.

[SammyWinstonJack]

23. How nice of you.

Talk about arrogance. You know MOST Texans, do you? Truly astounding indeed.

[snooper2]

35. Fine...

When we secede and make Molly Ivans our leader..your not welcome.. :)

[AndyTiedye]

41. Unfortunately, It Is Working the Other Way Around

We are becoming the United Christian State of Texas.

[forgethell]

10. Many of them

are incompetent, yes. Not all. Maybe not even most. but far and away enough.

Liberal Alabama Democrats? well, Don Siegelman comes to mind, but look at the state legislaive roster and pick one. I don't know if they have any words of wisdom, but they might, they are liberals, and for the most part, so am I.

As for Texas, I lived there once, and was happy enough to shake the dust of it from my heels. They can't even barbecue there, not what I'd call barbecue. anyway, that was an extremely bigoted remark, don't you think??

By the way, I can't claim the credit for creating the state. I believe that was a fellow called "God".

Thank you for an entertainng letter. Just one last thought. I was here, I KNOW why the tax bill was not passed, at least what the opponents said were their reasons. You were not. And I did the math. I would have taken a tremendous hit. More than I could readily afford if I had thought it would all be spent wisely, which I didn't. Did I mention Corrupt state government?

[ShaneGR]

22. LOL, Alabama vs. Texas.... who sucks worse?

Could we be on the verge on a southern civil war? Yeehaw!


NOTE: Satire only, I have nothing again Alabama or Texas (Except the Bush clan).

[RainDog]

30. Why can't Alabama hire good teachers?

Just wondering..not doubting what you say at all.

I was raised in the south in a lower middle class area and went to public school and I had some excellent teachers, and also some bad ones (who were, for the most part, coaches and fundamentalist Christians, fwiw.)

We also had a lot of crooked democratic politicians.

We also had a lot of fundamentalists (I'm from Nashville, the home of the Southern Baptist Convention.)

I don't live in the south anymore (lived in Texas for a while, too, and Miami, Fl), and I wouldn't ever want to live there again, particularly because of the fundamentalists.

Maybe Alabama has a hard time attracting good teachers because of its reputation in America? I don't know, but speculating based upon my own experience.

[forgethell]

38. That's a very good question

to which I do not know the answer. that said, there are a number of good teachers in Alabama. I think a more pertinent question is : why can't they fire the bad ones?

[ma4t]

45. I think we all know why they can't fire the bad ones.....

It's called tenure. I grew up in Alabama and now live in Tennessee. What I saw as a student, what I saw through my children's eyes when they were in school and what I see now through my wife's eyes (she works in a school) tells me that it is next to impossible to fire an incompetent teacher once that teacher is tenured. My wife's former pricipal once told her it would take roughly $250,000 in time, documentation and legal costs to sucessfully fire one teacher. Is there any wonder that all he did was try to shuffle the incompetents to places where the did the least possible damage rather than get rid of them?

On another tangent, why is it so hard to hire teachers who are actually qualified in the sciences and upper math courses? Perhaps since people with that knowledge/training can find much more lucrative jobs in industry we should pay the going rate to attract them into teaching. But that is impossible. The teachers' union insists that someone with and advanced degree in physics and chemistry should receive exactly the same pay as someone who teaches basic social studies. Except, of course, if the social studies teacher is also a coach then he will be paid more.

The best two reforms for public education would be to blow up all colleges of education in U.S. universities and abolish tenure.

[sandnsea]

48. If you'd voted yes, they could have

That was part of the deal for getting appropriate funding in Alabama schools. The teachers were willing to give up tenure to get proper funding. Damned greedy teachers, just want more more more for themselves.

And maybe your chemistry teacher really doesn't know what she's doing. Or maybe Dad (?) has a huge ego and likes to show that he knows more than the teacher. Or maybe daughter (?) knows that Dad will do all the work if she pretends teacher is an idiot. I don't know, lots of explanations for the 'bad' chemistry teacher. My kids have had teachers that I don't like for one reason or another, but none of them have been too incompetent to teach.

Finally, Alabama has one of the lowest tax rates in the country. It is also a state that takes significantly more federal funds away from those damned Democratic states. And it has traditionally had one of the worst economies and highest crime rates in the country. You're not going to get ALL bloat and fraud out of government, EVER. Voting down taxes over and over plays right into the hands of the cheap labor conservatives and states in the south are going to be economically depressed forever. And I'm sick to death of giving them more than their share of federal tax dollars because of it.

[forgethell]

49. Dad would

rather do his own work. Several other kids have made the same complaint. Reforms first, taxes later.

[Changenow]

11. Well, if your daughter has a bad Chemistry teacher

funding for the identification and treatment of tuberculosis victims should be cut. That will show them!

Let me tell you a little secret—the quality of teachers isn’t going to improve with funding cuts in a state that doesn’t treat infectious diseases.

[forgethell]

15. Exactly right

However, if our state officials were serious about the need for more money, perhaps they should start with cutting their own salaries and perks. Perhaps they should get their buddies off the payroll for outrageous consulting fees. Perhaps they should lay off one or two high-priced judges, instead of 20 or thirty clerks and bailiffs. The education beauracy is truly bloated in this state. Cut some administrators, not teachers. Shift the money around where it's needed, rather than spendng it where it's not. LET THEM PRORITZE. That's what we send them there to do!!!

there is only one way to send messages to politicians, Repukes or Dems. that is to vote. Against them if thye don't do right, and against raising taxes if they are wasting money.

[Bandit]

18. Enjoy it there because you will reap what you sow

You get what you pay for. And you don't want to pay so you don't get. Teach your kid yourself and let them find some job where education doesn't matter. :shrug:

[forgethell]

19. I just love

the sympathy and "compassion" shown by so many people on this site. I can and will teach them myself if I get dissatisfied enough. But my money tree has been sickly lately, and I have no leaves to mulch in the Garden of Montgomery. the teachers in ALabama are NOT particularly underpaid in comparison to many in the rest of the state. The adminsitrators are definitely not underpaid. So, to Hades with them. Alabama has been promised results for years but get little. Look, should we continue to shovel money down a hole?? Because that is what, in your ignorance of the state of affairs in Alabama, you are demanding.

[forgethell]

20. Oh, and I do

enjoy it in Alabama. I've lived in a number of states, and visited most of them. There is not a place that I would rather live.

[jwcomer]

37. punish the teachers.

Let's see if I understand this correctly.

Problem: You're daughter's chemistry teacher can't teach chemistry.
Solution: Cut teacher funding further.

Let's look into our crystal ball and see how this ends.

1) Education funding is cut further.
2) Fewer qualified teachers are willing to work in Alabama due to the low pay.
3) Children recieve worse educations.
4) Cut the funding further.

Rinse and repeat. Where does this tragic cycle leave us?

Look I went through that school system not long ago and I will be the first to tell you half my teachers were NOT remotely qualified in their subjects. But the other half were qualified, well-motivated, dedicated teachers who were doing the best they could. The solution is not to punish the teachers. One solution is to improve the recruitment of qualified teachers - ever wonder how many of the best qualified candidates graduating from from Alabama's teaching colleges get recruited to other states? Another solution is to pay for the continuing education of Alabama's educators.

[forgethell]

44. You totally misunderstand

The chemistry teacher isn't the only incompetent. What I want is to get rid of the incompetents. This requires no new money. Further, the tax was way more than was needed for education. That was one of its selling points. Some sale, huh?

It actually does not require a lot of money to educate kids. It does require some discipline in the schools. this is the other thing that I want. If a child is a constant disruptor, get him out of the classroom. Let the children who want to learn, learn. Let the children who will not learn get out. What to do with them? That's another problem, entirely.

All this being said, Alabama does not fund its schools properly. but they don't use what they have in a competent, useful, or wise fashion either. I don't know the answer, but Billion Dollar Bob's tax plan was not it.

[AP]

12. 10 Best States--and the Worst--For Babies

"The best state for babies is California. The worst is Alabama."

http://channels.netscape.com/ns/news/package.jsp?name=fte/babystates/babystates

Incidentally, CA currently has the most progressive state tax code in the US, and it's STILL regressive. (The bottom quintile pays about 9% effective state tax rate, while the richest pay about 6%.)

Just imagine what we could do with real progressive income tax in America.

[amazona]

13. killing people to balance a budget

This is truly sick. There are so many beautiful places in Alabama, but it is shame that sick people are treated with so little regard. Many of those AIDS and hypertension victims will die without their medication. I guess Louisiana is just as bad, as a disabled friend has been told he must pay $1,000 more a year before he starts getting help with his Rx. How? He is 100 percent disabled...can't work. Where is the money supposed to come from? Are sick people supposed to get into bank robbery as a hobby and, if so, how does this improve society.

While I accept that we have to reduce the population of this planet, I believe in education and birth control. The GOP seems to have a different plan of trying to kill off the sick and the old who are already here.


sharply reduced restaurant inspections? will the next e. coli adventure begin in alabama?

[E Pluribus Unum]

14. I have lived in Alabama since 1986 so I have seen

how this state has been governed and it has not been pretty.
Both dems & repubs have just been awful. The rule of the day is
the good ol boy system. This means that as soon as you get in office you reward your friends. The state and senate have been particularly bad. There is zero trust from the people that Montgomery will spend money wisely. Two years ago the state
threatened to eliminate sports and band from the schools if they did not raise taxes. The people voted for the increase and at the end of the next school year they gave 500 pink slips to teachers
in Mobile county. It turned out to be just a threat and they rehired the teachers at the beginning of the next school year. Do you think this builds trust of politicians? There used to be a magazine
named Govern. Its main subject matter was how each state runs its state government. Alabama was rated last. There are simply a lot of reasons why 62% of voters voted against this tax increase and not give Montgomery more money to spend when they have proven themselves incapable of using the money wisely.

[forgethell]

16. You tell 'em, boy

This is the absolute truth.

[AlabamaYankee]

21. Alabama is an odd and dysfunctional place

As other Alabama posters have pointed out, there is little or no trust in state government, and the leaders have gone out of their way, it seems, to reinforce that distrust. At the same time, it serves their purpose, in that while the voters are hostile, they also are so distrustful of change that they would rather keep the bastards they know, than elect a new group. The political institutions are directly descended form the plantation days, and the "Big Mules" still run the show.

In addition, a large number of people who voted against the Tax Reform and Accountability" bill - and who would have benefitted materially form it - are now in an acute state of angry denial. Every week there are letters to the editor stating the "Riley is just making these cuts to punish us", and "there's lots of money in Montgomery, and the politicians are just lining their pockets with it." Many also feel that they are among the most highly taxed states in the country, probably becausr they've never traveled outside their own county.

Unfortunately, Riley tied a numbe of significant reform measures into the bill, which also will not see the light of day, including a requirement that school districts actually audit and account for their state appropriations (!?!) and a streamlined method of removing incompetent faculty and stripping tenure protection from school administrators who are replaced. Both of these measures would have significantly cut back on the "bloated adminstration" that people complain about.

I'm just waiting for a major industry to either pull out or not relocate here because the state cannot provide essential services, or an educated workforce.

[forgethell]

24. Here's an idea

Let them make the reforms first, then they can ask for money and have a good chance of getting it. Furthermore, maybe because you're from Auburn, perhaps you don't know that many Alabamans know perfectly well that taxes are higher elsewhere.

What is actually needed is a change in the longest constitution that has existed anywhere since the Jurassic. something that would let localities set their own tax policies without having to go to Montgomery, or the entire state for permission.

[Classical_Liberal]

26. Fine, but one thing. Your elected reps maybe dems

but not many are liberals, and quit making the claim. The South used to vote solid Dem at the national level in the 60s but it sure as hell wasn't liberal. I'll bet alot of them vote republican at the national level. Republicans always prove government doesn't work by stealing like theifs when elected.

[WilliamPitt]

27. And you know this how...?

[Classical_Liberal]

29. What's your point Will

Are you so gung ho to defend the idea that their are liberals in the South that you want to lend credence to this posters accusation that it is liberal democrats that caused the crisis. Come off it. Your actually helping this person smear Southern Liberals. Pay attention to what he said. There are liberals in the south, but the aren't the majority in elected office which is why the South has conservative policies.

[WilliamPitt]

31. Mmmmm...

"Your elected reps maybe dems but not many are liberals, and quit making the claim."

I'm wondering how you know enough to tell someone to quit doing something.

[Classical_Liberal]

33. Well it has something to do with the fact that Liberal Dems

aren't generally enthusiastic about slashing the budget on hypertention drugs, but then maybe I'm in the wrong party. Have you had a bad day or something?

[forgethell]

40. Excuse me!!

I certainly did NOT say liberals caused the problem. I said corrput politicians caused the problem. Are you saying liberal cannot be as corrupt as conservaatives, because they sure as hell can. Maybe they aren't liberal in their hearts, but liberal talk falls out of their mouths. Both the Rs and the Ds in Alabama are as corrupt as a week-dead fish, and anybody who thinks different is a liar or a fool.

And there are many many true liberals in the state. Especially in university towns.

[candy331]

46. Is there no

movie star that wants to be Governor of Alabama?

[forgethell]

39. Yeah? Maybe, but

Alabama also has a large black population, which does NOT vote for conservatives. Our elected representatives may not be radical, but yes many of them are very liberal.

[Bandit]

42. It seems you got your wish and no new taxes were instated, Why are you

Bitching ?

[forgethell]

43. who's bitching??

but no, I didn't get what I want, which is a responsive stte government. But that wasn't on the ballot.

[lostnfound]

47. Alabama Governor's race was one flipped by black box voting screwups

From Blackboxvoting.com:

* No one at ES&S can explain the mystery votes that changed after polling places had closed, flipping the election from the Democratic winner to a Republican in the Alabama Governor's race. "Something happened. I don't have enough intelligence to say exactly what," said Mark Kelley, of Election Systems & Software. Baldwin County results showed that Democrat Don Siegelman earned enough votes to win the state of Alabama. All the observers went home. The next morning, however, 6,300 of Siegelman's votes inexplicably disappeared, and the election was handed to Republican Bob Riley. A recount was requested, but denied. The "glitch" is still being examined. (By a citizens group?) No. (By a judge?) No. (By an independent computer expert?) No. (By someone who works for ES&S?) Yes.