The excuse de jour on illegal wire-tapping ... Clinton did it.

[AtomicKitten]

Here's the post you'll see on wingnut websites:

"During the 1990's under President Clinton, the National Security Agency monitored millions of private phone calls placed by U.S. citizens and citizens of other countries under a super secret program code-named Echelon.

On Friday, the New York Times suggested that the Bush administration has instituted "a major shift in American intelligence-gathering practices" when it "secretly authorized the National Security Agency to eavesdrop on Americans and others inside the United States to search for evidence of terrorist activity without court-approved warrants."

But in fact, the NSA had been monitoring private domestic telephone conversations on a much larger scale throughout the 1990s - all of it done without a court order, let alone a catalyst like the 9/11 attacks.

In February 2000, for instance, CBS "60 Minutes" correspondent Steve Kroft introduced a report on the Clinton-era spy program by noting:

"If you made a phone call today or sent an e-mail to a friend, there's a good chance what you said or wrote was captured and screened by the country's largest intelligence agency. The top-secret Global Surveillance Network is called Echelon, and it's run by the National Security Agency."
NSA computers, said Kroft, "capture virtually every electronic conversation around the world."

Echelon expert Mike Frost, who spent 20 years as a spy for the Canadian equivalent of the National Security Agency, told "60 Minutes" that the agency was monitoring "everything from data transfers to cell phones to portable phones to baby monitors to ATMs."

Mr. Frost detailed activities at one unidentified NSA installation, telling "60 Minutes" that agency operators "can listen in to just about anything" - while Echelon computers screen phone calls for key words that might indicate a terrorist threat.

The "60 Minutes" report also spotlighted Echelon critic, then-Rep. Bob Barr, who complained that the project as it was being implemented under Clinton "engages in the interception of literally millions of communications involving United States citizens."

One Echelon operator working in Britain told "60 Minutes" that the NSA had even monitored and tape recorded the conversations of the late Sen. Strom Thurmond.

Still, the Times repeatedly insisted on Friday that NSA surveillance under Bush had been unprecedented, at one point citing anonymously an alleged former national security official who claimed: "This is really a sea change. It's almost a mainstay of this country that the NSA only does foreign searches."

[bluestateguy]

1. From the same people who regard Clinton as illegitimate

and from the same people who say that everything Clinton did was corrupt and illegitimate.

Now they cling to the "Clinton did it too!" defense to defend the legitimacy of their boy's actions.

[cry baby]

2. Wrong is wrong, no matter who does it. eom

[Selatius]

3. If the article is true, Clinton and Bush deserve to be condemned on it

As Ben Franklin said on this very issue: "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."

I've heard of Project Echelon since the late 1990s, but I thought it was something out of US control, since I heard the listening stations were based in Europe, but this kind of technology can reach across the planet.

[radio4progressives]

5. Fully Agree! n/t

[radio4progressives]

4. Actually, this practice goes all the way back to the 60's.

The origins and history of domestic spying by the CIA is documented in a book entitled: "Secrets, The CIA's War At Home" by Angus Mackenzie
Published 1997 by University of California Press - Berkeley and Los Angeles, California and University of California Press, Ltd. London, England.

(It's available on line i think or in certain book stores)

This book is a very revealing and important primer/resource covering the history, events and individuals (naming names, some you'll recognize today) involved in these operations and discusses censorship of whistle blowers, and revealing individual congress members and judges who aided and abetted in this ILLEGAL practice.

The sickening part about all of this is that the Democratic party was in the thick of it just as the Republican party was, then as they are now.

[MessiahRp]

6. Wait...

we're talking about domestic spying and such under Clinton and other administrations... is this all without court orders/warrants? I suppose it's convenient to push this onto Clinton but they keep saying that if Clinton had done it (implying he didn't because he was cowardly in some way) that we could have prevented 9/11. I turn this around and say if Clinton did it, then this wasn't helpful in the War on Terror anyways and needs to be prosecuted and halted immediately.

Rp

[AtomicKitten]

9. and the blame goes round and round, round and round

For once I'd like to see the Bush apologists stand still and let junior to take the heat.

[Historic NY]

7. Might be some truth in some of it..........

the project per se has been around since 1947. Initially designed to monitor the Soviet during the Cold War. When you hear them refer to chatter, this is the stuff they talk about.

http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,15775,00.asp

http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,15775,pg,2,00.asp

http://jya.com/echelon-barr.txt

[papau]

8. NOT QUITE TRUE. All eavesdropping by NSA was outside US under Clinton

The Toronto Center would capture key word phrases and then the operator would send captured phrase plus conversation 30 seconds before and after after to superior to see if followup needed. At this point the speaker is unknown.

If follow up is approved, NSA went for FISA Court order to allow identification of speaker and future eavesdropping of that person.

As usual the right wing lies via partial truth.

And I expect our media to lie by saying the same thing within a few hours.

[AtomicKitten]

10. Ironically, Bill "PNAC-Boy" Kristol Sez Clinton Should Have Done It

Kristol: 9/11 Happened Because Clinton Didn’t Authorize A Warrantless Domestic Spying Program

Fox News Sunday this morning:

BILL KRISTOL: I wish Bill Clinton had done this. I wish we had tapped the phones of people that Mohammed Atta, that Mohammed Atta here into the United States, if we discovered phone calls from Afghanistan to him. That’s why 9/11 happened. That’s what connecting the dots is.

JAUN WILLIAMS: If you’re going after the terrorists so would a FISA court support it, just as you support it.

The right-wing pundits have no real answer to this story. So they are going with what they know: blame Bill Clinton.

from www:thinkprogress.org