I'm confused about this spying business.

[Renew Deal]

I haven't had time to focus on it. I understand what was done and why it was illegal. Why did Bush admit to it? Why did they hide it on day one and open up on day two? Is it that they had no way to cover it up?

[KitchenWitch]

1. Hate to say this

but I wonder if this is a smokescreen for something even bigger...

[walldude]

10. Hmmm possibly...

on the other hand subverting the constitution is pretty serious, if it's a smokescreen they are covering up something Hugh!!!!!!!!!11111

[Skittles]

13. that HUGH stuff always cracks me up

I remember the original freak republic post :7

[bigtree]

12. It could have been the NYT article, but I think they could have ignored it

putting out a terse statement instead of Bush coming forward and seemingly spilling the beans.

Several things occur to me. Cheney is out of town. Bush is home alone. Did Cheney get some heat from Fitzgerald?

Bush signed the orders, but who really believes he knew anything about what was going on beyond what he was told by Cheney and others in the WH? He could have just found out that he's in jeopardy because of his sig and he's busy backpedaling from whatever Cheney, Hadley, Libby, or whoever did with the intercepted phone-call and e-mail dossiers. It's so likely that this is muckraking, obtaining files from a process that was intended for national security only.

Bush comes out to tell the world, and whoever will listen, all of the benign things that he got someone to tell him that he did. With Cheney out of town (Bush could have sent him out) Bush is free to attempt to separate himself from the more pernicious uses of the NSA records by his surrogates. It won't be enough to save him, but I'll give him credit for taking advantage of dick's absence to try to cover his ass.

Also, Fitz could already have access to whatever muckraking files the WH collected, Joe Wilson's perhaps. That would be enough to send Cheney into hiding, away from the Washington press gaggle, and enough to send Bush out to try to tell us that if it's broke, he had nothing to do with it.

[randyconspiracybuff]

2. Because Bush Is Arrogant and Thinks The Media Is Under Control

Bush's free ride is over. Now the mainstream media has finally got a little of its cojones back. This is not a conservative-liberal issue- right-wing militia types don't like being spied on either.

[newyawker99]

14. Hi randyconspiracybuff!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[randyconspiracybuff]

15. Thanks

I made my donation but still I don't have a star next to my name...

[boston bean]

3. There is no defense to it really, except to come out and admit it

and then strenuously claim that you were doing it for "good reasons"

Which is bullshit I know.

They are still so damned powerful (so they think) that they throw it out there that the meeting will be done in secret because it is classified information and that no one will really know what happened. Like who exactly did they wiretap.

I believe they wiretapped political enemies as well as innocent americans whose spouses may have traveled overseas for business.

This is just sick!

[The2ndWheel]

4. It's just a game

They do what they want, admit to it or not, it doesn't matter, then go on to do whatever it is that they want to do next.

http://www.thirdreich.net/Thought_They_Were_Free.html

"How is this to be avoided, among ordinary men, even highly educated ordinary men? Frankly, I do not know. I do not see, even now. Many, many times since it all happened I have pondered that pair of great maxims, Principiis obsta and Finem respice - "Resist the beginnings" and "consider the end." But one must foresee the end in order to resist, or even see, the beginnings. One must foresee the end clearly and certainly and how is this to be done, by ordinary men or even by extraordinary men? Things might have changed here before they went as far as they did; they didn't, but they might have. And everyone counts on that might.

"You see," my colleague went on, "one doesn't see exactly where or how to move. Believe me, this is true. Each act, each occasion, is worse than the last, but only a little worse. You wait for the next and the next. You wait for the one great shocking occasion, thinking that others, when such a shock comes, will join with you in resisting somehow. You don't want to act, or even to talk, alone; you don't want to "go out of your way to make trouble." Why not? - Well, you are not in the habit of doing it. And it is not just fear, fear of standing alone, that restrains you; it is also genuine uncertainty.

"And you are an alarmist. You are saying that this must lead to this, and you can't prove it. These are the beginnings, yes; but how do you know for sure when you don't know the end, and how do you know, or even surmise, the end? On the one hand, your enemies, the law, the regime, the Party, intimidate you. On the other, your colleagues pooh-pooh you as pessimistic or even neurotic. You are left with your close friends, who are, naturally, people who have always thought as you have.

[rodeodance]

5. Jr. claims he has war powers authority--under the use of force resolution

that was passed by Congress (war in Irag). Gonzalos has been all over the tube backing him up.

[zbdent]

6. You know, after 4/19/1995

Republicans were screaming about it . . . TOTALLY AGAINST . . . because they feared a Dem president doing it.

Now, with * in charge . . . :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)

[Kokonoe]

7. They must admit their abuse and rein in excessive power

before democrats assume equal authority in the next election cycle.

[in_cog_ni_to]

8. This is their fight for EXECUTIVE POWER. They are trying to say

that Article II of the Constitution gives the IDIOT, IN A TIME OF WAR, the power to bypass Congress and the courts to do whatever the hell he wants. The problem is....he NEVER WENT TO CONGRESS FOR A DECLARATION OF WAR. The IWR is NOT a DECLARATION OF WAR. The IWR is a RESOLUTION to fight TERRA.

They decided NOW was the time to "go for it" and get the Executive power they have been seeking for 5 freakin' years.

[Karmakaze]

9. I believe it is a test...

Perhaps the FINAL test.

Commit an obvious, no doubt about it crime large enough to warrant impeachment yet not so large that if anything goes wrong you end up in prison for life, then go on TV and brazenly admit the crime and basically dare the American people to do something about it.

If they get away with this, they know that they can get away with anything. If they can suspend one amendment of the Constitution, they can suspend them all. It also highlights who needs to be watched, rounded up or otherwise dealt with for phase two - the suspension of the 2006 Congressional elections.

This admin has been breaking the law since before it was even "elected" but this is the first time they have come straight out and said "Yes we did it, we did it for security reasons, we will keep doing it, and nothing will change our minds." If that is not a 'dare' then I don't know what is.

The Bush cabal is DARING the people of the United States to do something about it, while obviously believing they won't. I fear the Bush cabal may be right, and this is the final nail in the coffin of democracy in the US.

[in_cog_ni_to]

11. Spot on! and I love your screen name.

:hi:

[ThomWV]

16. Because He SIGNED an Executive Order

NSA did it, the NY times knew they did it, they would not have done it without something in writing directing them to.

This is not to say they (NSA) would require an order in writing to do their duty out of mistrust for the President, its just the way that the NSA, that most secrete and discrete of Agencys, works. It just so happens that the authorization to do it was readily available. So they (The Bush boys) could not deny he did it.

[kenny blankenship]

17. He copped to it early because it's coming out anyway

and he needs to act like there's nothing wrong with what he did.

They've been damaged by a number of things they tried to sit on, deny, wait out & make disappear, but this episode isn't just another example of incompetence or bad policy like Katrina or missing WMDs. It's arguably an impeachable offense in and of itself. He can't shunt responsibility onto underlings. He can't deny the wiretaps took place. He therefore has to start the noise machine early with flat out rejection of wrongdoing of ANY sort and shut public comment down, or it could go all the way (I mean resulting in his trial and removal). If he tried to deny authorizing the surveillance of citizens, it would look like he knew how severe the crime was and tried to cover up his involvement: an impeachment express. Not even the Republicans would save him.