Mike Malloy: Bring back the Draft...

[Postman]

Mike just said he supports reinstating the Draft as a strategic move to oust Bush from office. Arguing that by spreading the threat of sending Mom and Dads kids all over the globe will act as a deterant to said strategy.

You may be right Mike, but I respectfully disagree.

1) Adding more people to the military ensures a massive, bloated military budget. I'm against that.

2) Forcing people against their will into military service under threat of fine or imprisonment goes against the stated ideals we supposedly uphold. Freedom and liberty. There is no threat to this country that justifies a Draft.

3) Its a violation of the Constitutions 13th Amendment.
Neither slavery nor INVOLUNTARY SERVITUDE, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.

4) Any politician advocating this "third rail" issue will immediately be targeted for removal from office by the same voters you want to stir into action by advocating for a Draft.

5) Your strategy could backfire. Republicans grab onto NY Dem Charles Rangels initiative to reinstate the Draft. Blame immediately rests with the Democrats for advocating such an action. Bye bye Democrats.

6) A Draft is no guarantee of success anywhere. It may act to pressure military action elsewhere in the world. "We have this big fighting force now, let's go kick Iran and Syria's ass now and then North Korea."...Is this the kind of America we want? I don't

....it's a losing proposition either way.

[LastKnight]

1. we have enough issues, why add a risk?

lets look at the list of things we already got against bush that the people are upset about

economy
iraq quagmire
Osama bin forgotten
saddam is as absent as his wmds
'the drippy white house pipes'
the tax cut that most americans never see, unless of course, your rich enough that you dont need it.

sure, not a big list, but number 1 and 2 are pretty big issues and progressively worse every day

-LK

[MuseRider]

2. Does he have children?

In a month and a half both of my boys will be draft age. This is personal for me, I can't be objective. I have done all I can to try to protect them. Bush* will not be using them to stuff his pockets and play warrior king all over the planet.

[nadinbrzezinski]

3. he does

and now reality is, the way the US Military is overstretched we
will need a draft before too long.

[lcordero]

4. the draft issue didn't mobilize enough people the last time out

The draft issue, Vietnam, along with scandal on top of scandal didn't put an end to the repukes, what makes you think that the draft and Iraq, along with scandal on top of scandal is going to put an end to the repukes?

[Crewleader]

5. To Mike Malloy

:grr:

NO Draft... No Way!

[Terwilliger]

6. If Dems do it, they're horrible warmongers

if Repukes do it, it will be seen as that wonderful Republicans running our country with a strong hand!

OmEdit: atrocious drunken-speel

[Flying_Pig]

8. Agreed. Bad issue for the Dems.

While I can see Mike's points, I think it could backfire on our Party. We need to be the party of peace, not war, and supporting a draft, even if done in the hope it would backfire on Bush, is a very, very, risky enterprise. Better, if a draft is called at all, is for the Repuglians to call for it. Then, all the mothers and fathers in the country with draft age kids, can hate the Repugs, and look to the Dems as the party that will try the hardest to secure peace, and end efforts for a draft.

[Leanmc]

7. Numbers don't add up

From memory, there are about 4 million men and women that turn 18 a year. If everyone did two year military service, that would mean we would have eight million E1-E4s in the military. There would obviously need to be more officers and senior NCOs to manage this massive amount of personel. Even if you limited the draft to males, the number of draftees would be about 3 times bigger than the total number of military personel we have right now.

There is no way that we will have a universal draft. Obviously exceptions will have to be made, deferments, lottery, whatever. Even among the military branches, its safer to be an enlisted person in the Air Force than in the Army. People with skills will be on at the rear, the poor and unskilled will be on the front lines.

Having a draft won't solve the problem.

[WillyT]

9. Why Not Flip This On Its Head For A Useful Meme ???

I don't want to see a reinstatement of the draft either. But what I believe Malloy is suggesting, is that THAT threat (or reality), is the one thing that would push Chimpy's numbers down a good 10 or 20 percentage points more.

All of the political movements of the 60's\70's were 'pushed' by the resistance to the Vietnam War, which was greatly resisted because of the selective service.

Why not try to gather enough of a case for a widely distributed meme that says that 'George W. Bush, given a second term and a continuation of his deadly policies, will make the draft an INEVITABILITY!!!'

This way the Dems avoid promoting the draft, but instead use the threat of this very real possiblity that may come to pass under Junior II.

Discuss.


:shrug:

[Terwilliger]

13. If Democrats propose it, it will be acceptable, and the draft will begin

THEN what happens????

Then we have people who will be ready to go to Canada...the "hemohorrage" could be significant. There are GI's willing to go AWOL now, I read in some DU thread. It's time to end the problem, not make it worse.

Even if Democrats can swing a balanced argument that works against Republicans, the actual event could be inevitable. Do we want that?

[WillyT]

17. Hey T !!! --- I Know What You're Saying, But...

With all of the current disarray within the armed services and National Guard, plus the PNAC determination to remake the Middle East in our own image...

You don't think B*sh will reinstitute the draft once he is reinserted into the Oval Orifice and has no fear of the voter any longer???

I'm just thinkin that since the fear of what he might do to the supreme court doesn't seem to move many people to vote against this dangerous fool, maybe spreading the word that your ass may be his if he gets another term may just be the thing that gets people off of their asses to remove him next year instead of when it's far too late.

Ya know? :shrug:

:hi: Am I gonna see ya Saturday? :hi:

Sorry about the ramble... I'm exhausted.

[Terwilliger]

27. yo willy!

I follow what you're saying...and I will see you there!! :bounce:

[srpantalonas]

10. Who volunteers for military service? Rich white kids?

On the one hand I agree with the "freedom and liberty" argument, but on the other hand a lot of people (disproportionately minority) join the military to make better lives for themselves (rangel's argument)--to get an education, money, etc. It would be different if there were more than just military options for public service (required or voluntary). But you're correct--there is no external threat to justify a draft.

[Dr Fate]

22. Young republicans would think twice about "supporting" war...

...a draft would encourage young people to RESEARCH and stop believing everything Bush/media tells them...

It should be more like WWII- where almost everyone agreed with the war, and there was little or no resistance to the draft...Wars should have the support of the people- not just "support" through votes, money or rhetoric- but actual physical support.

If a war is truly worth fighting, and the majority of the populace agrees to it with the knowledge that they may serve (in other words, they "want to be there"), it lends the entire process more credibility...

[Silverhair]

11. NO DRAFT. NO NO NO NO

NO NON NYET NEIN
My reasoning can be read in other threads. Not only is it a bad idea in of itself, it is a big time loser for Democrats.

[bluestateguy]

12. Wouldn't it be funny?

To see a bunch of fat-assed chickenhawk, frat boy white Republicans squeal like a bunch of little pigs with bullshit excuses to get out of the draft.

I'd love to serve on a draft board so I could make it my agenda to pack as many of these people off and ship them off to the front lines of the most severe combat.

[dolstein]

14. Stop making silly constitutional arguments

<<Its a violation of the Constitutions 13th Amendment.
Neither slavery nor INVOLUNTARY SERVITUDE, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.>>

This argument has been tried before. It didn't succeed during the Vietnam War. There's no way in hell it would succeed today, with the judiciary dominated by conservatives.

Here's a link to The Straight Dope, which addresses this issues:

http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a1_140b.html

[Dr Fate]

21. I disagree it's not involuntary or unconstitutional...

IF the populace truly supports the war effort- and that's a big IF.

The 13th amendment applies to slavery, not people who allow their government to pick and choose the best men for a popular war effort. Clearly the intent of that amendment was not aimed at the constitutional duty of congress to raise armies for wars that the population supports through the legislature...

Think of WWII- no one had a problem w/ the draft, becuase a majority of the people truly agreed with their Congress on the war effort- in fact , most of them knew they would be subject to the draft while supporting their elected officials- compare that to NOW!!!!

If a war TRULY has the actual support of a majority of the citizens, then allowing the government to pick who it needs most for that effort is not slavery...

BTW- the constitution allows for congress to raise armies.

Your argument relies on the assumption that no one supports war, but the polls as well as Bush/media prior to Iraq indicated differently- we were told that "a majority" of people "supported" the war. Do you think those #s would have been the same w/ a constitutional draft in place?

If a large majority of people support the war(think WWII), then I think the military should get to choose who it needs most amoung these enthusiastic "war supporters"- if a large majority does not support the war(partially because they know they will be physically responsible for carrying it out) then there is nothing to worry about...

How would it be "slavery" to fight for a war, under a system that you agreed to support?

[Trek234]

25. " the constitution allows for congress to raise armies"

The constitution allows for congress to raise armies in a CONSTITUTIONAL MANNER.

[FlemingsGhost]

15. Yes! Please, please, please... bring back the draft.

Let the sorely needed second American Revolution begin.

The sooner the better...

[Terwilliger]

19. A little 'worse before it gets better' DU?

:shrug:

[FlemingsGhost]

23. It's gonna to get A LOT worse, with or without a draft.

Why not coax it along?
I'm a big believer in addressing problems sooner than later.

[Terwilliger]

16. Now talking about denial of troop bonuses for fiscal 2004

only $265 million dollars

[beanball]

18. You're damn right bring back the draft

and let some of the sunshine patriots that are making big bucks off this terriost scare concocted by the Bush bandits serve their beloved country,you'll see how fast this war on terrior ends when rich white boys have to face the so called enemy,when the congresspeople see their little boys going to Iraq,see how their openions change,poor people are dying for no good reason at all,the american people have been lied to and our young people have died because of the greed and hate that abound in this stolen land.WAKE UP AMERICA BEFORE ITS TOO LATE.

[Terwilliger]

20. Democratic Underground . com commercial?

:wow:

[LastKnight]

24. follow that idea...

im sure with all our members we can whip up the support, ect

-LK

[Terwilliger]

26. er, no...I mean I HEARD a commecial for Democratic Underground

on Mike Malloy's show