Is Clark in charge of his danged campaign or what?

[dkf]

This is ridiculous!

http://www.msnbc.com/news/968595.asp?cp1=1

NO IOWA CAMPAIGN
A source within the campaign tells me that the fact that Iowa is completely off the table in terms of campaigning was leaked to a major paper before Clark had signed off on that course. A senior aide said: “He does want to compete — he was advised against it.” He has now obviously OK’d the decision but was not pleased initially that the decision had been made and leaked before a discussion was had. “He was disturbed. It was leaked out without his knowledge.”

[whirlygigspin]

1. call Hillary!

lmao

[union_maid]

16. He never could have done Iowa.

Everyone knew that, from experts to armchair strategists. He might have preferrred to announce it in some particular way, but on the other hand, an honest answer to a question isn't the end of the world and that's probably how this got "leaked".

[w13rd0]

2. Well...

...drafting someone usually implies calling them up for service, then telling them what to do. I think it's a lot closer to the truth than I'm comfortable with. Clark should fire this crop of advisors, they are not serving in his or his campaigns best interests...

[unfrigginreal]

4. The drafting was a good thing...

it was driven by genuine grassroots support. Where Clark started losing support was when he ditched the idea of campaigning to expand the grassroots and decided to turn it over to the "professionals". It's a damned shame, I'm not even sure he's still my 2nd choice at this point...he really sold out a bunch of people.

[KittyWampus]

22. Sold Out A BUNCH Of People?

Hmmmmmmmmm...

Fowler, who was never officially part of the campaign and apparently was doing not a very good job, left because he didn't want whatever he was offered. Example of not doing a good job as field manager- delaying filing Clark's Presidential Papers for example.

Some other guy, with a history of being a troublemaker, left in a huff because he wasn't the center of attention.

Other original members (two of them, IIRC) of one of the internet Draft movements are actually in the campaign.

So when you say BUNCH of other people, who the heck are you talking about?

Could you provide direct quotes other than indirect intimations printed in articles trying to obliquely slam Clark?

MUST Clark copy Trippi's faux grassroots campaign exactly?

Perhaps Clark is capable of raising money and supporters from both traditional AND newer methods.

[KittyWampus]

25. What Irrational Comments!

"drafting someone usually implies calling them up for service, then telling them what to do."

Clark has NEVER campaigned as a politician before... who could rationally expect him to KNOW what to do. Campain staffers are SUPPOSED to tell the candidate what to do... where to speak.... give advice on what to wear, how to debate etc. ad naseum.

Why exactly should Clark fire this cop of advisors?

Because Clark isn't going to stump in Iowa, a state his campaign had already talked about not pursuing?

Let me point out, NOONE HERE KNOWS HOW THE "LEAK" HAPPENED. I am sorry but this is a sketchy news blurb with little actual information.

[CoffeePlease1947]

3. Is there any campaign that doesn't leak?

I know of no government or organization that doesn't have leaks. How do you the leak was really a leak? Could have been something on purpose to make it look like Clark wants to personally campaign there. People in Iowa don't take kind to skipping them and may drive him even lower in the polls there if they feel it was his personal idea and not that of someone else or a financial situation.
Would you vote for a candidate that screw campaigning in your state? I would not, I would say fine buddy I will not vote for you then. On the other hand if he was advised by his handles that campaigning in my state may hurt him more than help him win the nomination I could understand and respect that decision.

Mike

[dkf]

5. This makes him look like his campaign is out of control which

I think looks worse than dissing Iowa because it goes to his leadership skills.

Take a look at the problems in the current administration. The infighting and lack of control by Bush is causing chaos.

Even more significant, can you imagine Howard Dean letting his people run roughshod over him? I can't see it myself.

[CoffeePlease1947]

6. Maybe if he did

Maybe if Dean did, he would not hauled away on a big bus on accident. LOL j/k

I don't think it hurts Clark. I am sure they talked about it before hand, even if someone did leak it. I still think coming in 9th in Iowa is way worse than a little leak that goes unnoticed by 99.9999999999999% of the population.

Mike

[Julien Sorel]

7. Run roughshod?

Talk about exaggeration. Since when was one leak 'running roughshod?'

I believe Clark has already essentially fired one campaign manager -- I think it's obvious who's in control. The campaign is a month old, and the entire staff is new to each other. Wow -- someone might (and we don't even know for sure) have leaked, and now his campaign is out of control. Hysterical, in both senses of the word.

[dkf]

8. I'm not talking about the fact that they leaked

I'm talking about the fact that they forced his hand. He did not finalize this huge decision to bypass Iowa, instead the decision was made for him by his campaign - unless you think that Clark himself made the decision to skip Iowa but is not telling the truth in order to avoid dissing Iowans.

I also question whether Clark fired Fowler or if Fowler was outmanuvered by Fabiani et al. I frankly think it was the latter.

[CoffeePlease1947]

9. "I also question whether Clark fired Fowler or if Fowler was outmanuvered"

Too bad Clark's campaign doesn't have leaks to let you know about it?

Opps, I guess that you just shot down that Clark's campaign has a bunch of leaks and is mismanaged if you have to guess.

Mike

[dkf]

13. Actually, there was a leak about Fowler

Wesley Clark's soap opera
The political intrigue plaguing Wesley Clark's Democratic presidential campaign continues to deepen. Insiders tell our Suzi Parker that one day after campaign manager Donnie Fowler quit over concerns that Clark was letting Washington hands, not Clark fans and activists, run the show, he fled Arkansas. Sources say his foes pushed him out by leaking his resignation to the Associated Press Tuesday while negotiations over his role were being discussed and before he quit. The message being sent: Hasta la vista, baby.

http://www.usnews.com/usnews/politics/whispers/whispwebarch.htm

[Julien Sorel]

12. The decision was made by the circumstances.

The announcement itself was a formality.

Your opinion on Fowler is worthless to me, as I read the circumstances of Fowler's departure, and it was pretty clear Clark removed him from his job.

[KittyWampus]

24. They Are Trying To Kill Off Clark Anyway They Can

And it seems there's a steady effort to force the impression that Clark's campaign is out of control.

How, exactly, is the campaign running roughshod over Clark?

[JNelson6563]

10. sure, leaks are one thing

But to leak something like foregoing Iowa is more than just a leak, that is making a decision for the General. I think he needs to dress down a few soldiers. Quick like.

Julie

[dfong63]

11. why should Clark be in charge of his campaign?

Clark has no experience running for office. he's out of his element. is it not to be expected that he'd rely heavily on the advice of his subordinates?

[dkf]

14. Clark is not a quitter and he doesn't want to run as a quitter.

He is being forced to bow out of the Iowa contest by those consultants of his who are doing it in a "for your own good" sort of way. They didn't want to let him make the "wrong" decision regarding Iowa and they will do what they can to make sure they have control.

[Julien Sorel]

15. Complete BS.

He had no choice but to 'bow out;' it wasn't just the smart play, it was the only play. Knock off trying to make the guy look like a puppet. He didn't achieve the things he did by dancing to other peoples' tunes.

[dfong63]

17. it's not "BS"

He had no choice but to 'bow out;' it wasn't just the smart play, it was the only play.

it it's a "smart play" to bow out of Iowa now, then it seems it would have been an even smarter play to start campaigning when all the other candidates did, instead of spending months admiring his navel and trying to decide whether he was really a democrat.

Knock off trying to make the guy look like a puppet. He didn't achieve the things he did by dancing to other peoples' tunes.

sure he did. the military is built on people following orders. Clark wasn't born a general. he did get where he is by following orders, and asking "how high" when told to jump.

[sangh0]

18. Propoganda

Doesn't anyone consider the source when they read something these days? We all know the media has it in for each and every Dem candidate, and MSNBC is well-known for have Repuke sympathies, and yet people still believe unsourced reports that portray a Dem in a negative manner.

[OKNancy]

19. Or maybe they are really really smart

Lieberman too. Lieberman and Clark's people will probably go to Gephardt. If Gep wins Iowa, that will punch a hole in the Dean balloon. Nothing wrong with that if you want to be President.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

20. Totally Agree

I posted this the other day, but IMO Iowa is too cost-intensive, for too little upside. McCain didn't need it, and I think Clark is modeling his run partly on McCain's.

Of course, McCain DID win HUGE in NH, so Clark is going to have to firewall pretty heavily in SC and in the other states having primaries on the same day as SC.

Still, as long as Clark can finished 2nd or 3rd in NH, he'll be doing fine. I think Clark's ideal situation is this:

Gephardt narrowly wins Iowa, with Dean coming in 2nd and Kerry and Clark (even without campaigning) coming in 3rd. This limits Dean's momentum and keeps his most antagonistic rival in the race.

Dean wins NH, with Clark coming in 2nd and Kerry coming in 3rd. This will kill Kerry's campaign and result in a lot of Kerry voters likely going over to the only other foreign policy expert and war hero, Clark. Simultaneously, Dean's momentum is limited since by now everyone expects him to win NH, while Clark's is boosted by the unexpectedly high finish.

Then it comes down to SC and Clark/Edwards, and the other states and Clark/Dean. If Clark can win SC, Edwards is finished, and if Gephardt gets shut out on this day, he's finished too.

It then comes down to Clark/Dean neck-and-neck, with the South and the superdelegates giving Clark an advantage.

Of course, if Clark's Q4 fundraising numbers are as high as I'm hoping they're going to be, his way will be greatly smoothed, both in terms of resources and momentum.

DTH

[salin]

30. psssst DTH

tell your guy to study Trippi's methods, not just for fundraising, but for creating lean, quickly adapting, state organizations that are somewhat decentralized and build upon initial netorganizing - but use that organizing to spread into nonnet organizing. The fundraising through this mechanism does two things - as can be seen by both campaigns really utilizing these methods the first is obvious - more money from more sources more efficiently collected; but as important (and mostly ignored) is the heightened level of commitment to the candidate - the willingness to roll up the sleeves and start getting active locally. In the end THIS, imo, is what will win the general election.

Your guy got off great on this front, but in the chaos surrounding any new organization, seems to be pulling more centralized. Nudge them back to where they got their big boost and what helped catapult the media buzz.

I would like nothing more than to see two OR MORE campaigns starting to really utilize new campaign strategies, move more towards some decentralization (that pushes original new actions and thus new activism and broadens the reach of the campaign), that become much more able to pull of surprise moves on the GOP and keep that much better funded organization a little off balance. Gives back a little competitive edge to the dems.

We get several promising campaigns finding success with this - it will force a bit of revolutionizing among dem campaign strategists - which is needed to retip the balance in campaigns where the GOP currently holds money and media advantage.

[salin]

29. Disagree... not on the decision to pull necessarily

but on the results of the results in Iowa. Gep is expected to win (proximity), Dean coming is expected. If one of the candidates knocked him to third (or worse), then that does real damage.

Thus if either of those had a shot at pulling an "upset" (in this case coming in second), they should do it for the longer momentum.

On the other hand - especially for Clark - if there is no chance, put resources where there is a chance. The SC strategy I have read about makes some sense.

Not sure though that Clark didn't have a chance for a strong showing, in which case it could have been a chance to slow the Dean momentum.

Lieberman, on the otherhand, appears to be in full retreat. The campaign was overconfident for months - relying on a) strong name recognition and b) belief (based on pt a) of powerful fundraising apparatus. Almost as if they arrogantly relied on these aspects - focused on the DC (inner beltway) fundraising as part 1 of the campaign, without really assessing the developments of the other campaigns. Lieberman's supposed appeal - is his appeal to middle america, to moderate america, to the land of fiscal responsibility. Lieberman doesn't have the 'excuse' of entering the campaign late, and thus having less apparatus in place and fewer funds (due to shorter fundraising time), and thus needing to be much more strategic (surgical?) in investing initial campaign resources as does Clark.

I think this move hurts Lieberman. And I think the fault lies with the campaign's inability to really guage what was happening with other campaigns - including the preceived void that pulled Clark into the race. Thus they couldn't adjust their own strategies quickly enough to shift and be competitive.

I find irony that the candidate most vocal of the flaws of Gore's campaign strategy, appears to be suffering from... poor campaign strategy.

[LoneStarLiberal]

21. As A Drafter,

I cannot speak in an official capacity, but I can speak as a drafter and volunteer as to my own personal views.

We do have growing pains. The draft was the easiest part of the process and I think most of us understood that from the beginning.

There are more than likely some turf wars going on between the Clinton/Gore people and some of the drafters. As to how important these turf wars are or how many more of them there are in the Clark campaign versus other campaigns remains firmly in the realm of unsubstantiated gossip.

I think a lot of the attention given to the evolution of the campaign from an all volunteer draft to some hybrid of a volunteer and professional campaign is ambulance chasing at its finest. There is a tendency to hype every change and every mistake and to identify each as either a failure of the campaign that will certainly ruin all of it or as a failure of Wes Clark's leadership ability outside of the military environment that will certainly ruin all of it.

I feel fairly confident in saying that were Wes Clark to drop out and Howard Dean to ascend back into firm leadership nationally and in a few key primary states, you would see the same kind of attention paid to Dean and his campaign as you are currently seeing paid to Clark and his campaign. It's simply a popular target right now.

The fact is that rumor, whether it concerns Wes Clark, Howard Dean, John Kerry, or Dennis Kucinich, is simply that: Rumor. The unconfirmed source that was quoted in the MSNBC piece could very well be giving an accurate account...or could very well be concocting a fictional picture. The only relevant point is that we don't know.

It's just all unsubstantiated. (sorry! didn't spell that right the first time!)

[Padraig18]

23. Isn't this a dupe of the thread Skinner locked earlier? n/t

[roguevalley]

26. Iowa is caucuses, right?

His isn't the only campaign signing off on Iowa. As for the whole
campaign, the early primaries won't tell the tale. All of them count and some are more attainable than others for cash and time reasons.

I don't mind someone being realistic. I am sure Wes Clark wants to visit all states and be competitive in all of them but reality is a harsh mistress.

I'll believe all primaries matter equally when the candidates actually come to Alaska in a big and real way. Until then, I'll settle for what I can get.

This isn't about me or my state. Its about the country.

[genius]

27. A lot of campaign are having that stupid insulation problem

Where a couple people, who don't know what they're doing, below the candidate are making all the decisions, including ones they shouldn't be making. The candidates are not taking feedback on whether the people making all their decisions are blowing it completely and so they have no idea.

[returnable]

28. removed upon further reflection... n/t

Nothing to see here folks :toast: