The student who brought the box cutters on the plane should IMPRISONED

[LalahLand]

Sure, he brought a potentially dangerous situation to light, but thats not the point. His actions hurt the morale of Americans and probably placed a dent in the US economy (by making Americans less willing to fly). If this guy were Muslim, or even non-white, would he be given the "benefit of the doubt" like this? I don't think so. He should be imprisoned if we're serious about diminishing the double standards in America.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20031021/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/planes_searched_77

[LeftCoast]

1. I hope you're joking

The guy should be given the Congressional Medal of Honor, IMHO.

[CatWoman]

3. oooooooooo

Spock

:D

[LeftCoast]

68. Hey Catwoman!

Sorry I didn't reply till now...had to go to school and study! I love DJSpock. Cool pic, eh? :)

:hi:

[Warpy]

7. This guy doesn't belong in prison!

He pointed up serious flaws in the security system, that it's all just been window dressing that won't stop anybody, and embarrassed the government for the halfassed cheapness of their protection of the public welfare.

Yes, he brought that stuff aboard. Yes, he stowed it where nobody else could find it unless they knew where it was, and YES, he notified the powers that be immediately! That's the point, I think. He endangered no one. The jerks who were too lazy to read the email and check up on it are to blame for endangering anyone.

This guy pointed out that the goverment has done NOTHING to increase safety, and everything to restrict rights. I sure as hell wouldn't vote for trial if I sat on the grand jury!

[LalahLand]

10. Would you feel the same way if this guy were Muslim

or would you label him as a terrorist? Be honest now..

[MUAD_DIB]

18. To be honest I really don't know what the color of

this kids skin is or where he comes from.
I guess that the answer is no.

[bearfartinthewoods]

20. if the Muslim did the same thing in the same way i'd call him a

whistleblower and pat him on the back.

[LalahLand]

22. And Ashcroft would be holding him in a camp somewhere

where he'd be denied an attorney and bail. Wake up Americans.

[salin]

29. Isn't THAT the issue

rather than whether this guy should be imprisoned? Is the solution to make us blind and robbing of civil liberties - equally? Or is it to begin to prevent different legal responses based on ethnicity/race? I vote the latter.

[LalahLand]

35. Yes it is the issue, but since bigotry ain't goin nowhere, no time soon

We might as well work with what we can change, and that is making all legal responses to crimes EQUAL.

[salin]

43. given Ashcroft as the DOJ

I suggest we push for review of current legal responses in general. Then go towards equal application.

[Hep]

61. you're obviously mad

but who are you mad at?More importantly, whom are you mad on behalf of? My morale isn't lower, BTW, I never doubted that this could be done. The terrorists have already proven that it is about will, not means.

[mcar]

46. I'd feel the same way

the kid deserves credit for so ably demonstrating what a joke "Homeland Security" is. His skin color and/or religious preference notwithstanding.

[Guaranteed]

60. I'm sorry, when did this become a racial issue?

Why are you bringing that into the matter?
And, for the record, YES, if the guy was Muslim, and clearly, likely this young man, had no intent of hurting anyone, he should not be imprisoned.

[gasperc]

70. Honestly, living in your foo-foo world of lemon drops and candy canes

is the creepiest thing of all. Airport security IS NOT GOOD ENOUGH. Why did 9/11 happen? Because 19 fucking lunatics exploited the weaknesses of airport security and slammed 3 out of 4 airplanes into major American structures. NOT the 25 million citizens of Iraq, NOT the millions of Arab-American muslims, NOT the millions of Afgans and NOT the millions other muslims throughout. It was 19 nut cases with several hundred to thousand diehard supporters. Which at any time are looking for the cracks, the holes and the weaknesses. So, go live in your fucking foo-foo powdered donut lollipop fantasty world where bombing the living shit out of Iraq with daily updates of "terrorists raids" and "snipers shot dead" bullshit. There are tons of people that hate America, for exploited their citizens for cheap labor in sweat shops and farms throughout the US and the world. For demanding countries to be democratic and then supporting some of the most ruthless and diabolical people ever in order to exploit the wealth of that country like say, Bolivia.
If don't make even the most half hearted attempt at trying to become energy self sufficient, we'll be at war with everbody for decades to come until some genius comes up with an energy source to replace oil. You've heard before, again and again, we're running out of oil, we're running out of oil and we will someday soon and well before that demand will puch prices through the roof. The world consumes 77million barrels per day. The best estimates for known world reserves are 2-3trillion barrels so let's estimate high, 5 trillion, we'll use up by the end of the century.

So, I wouldn't worry so much about a kid who smuggled some box cutters on a couple of airplanes. He should've taken the blades out, he could've still made his point. But he probably did us all a favor. The lunatics are out there biding their time and we dump billions of dollars of precious resources into Iraq.

[Occulus]

2. and Rosa Parks

should have been thrown in jail as well.

And those members of the Boston Tea Party.... talk about traitorous! I'm sure the local tea sellers had the same arguments. Good for them, they were right!

The law is the law is the law! Stealing is as bad as murder!!!

Lock em up and throw away the key!

/republicanism
/sarcasm

[radwriter0555]

9. That's right. Lock up the ones who oppose, who clarify, who tell the truth

since they cause SO much damage to the morale of America.

We should then lock up anyone who opposes the bush regime, and those who burn the flag in protest, since they cause so much emotional damage.

Then we could turn our attention to the Supermarket strikers in southern California. Their selfish acts point out how greedy giant corporations are. We should lock them up too.

[LalahLand]

13. Rosa parks situation was different

She did what was RIGHT. She was fighting for justice and equal rights. This guy just wants his 15 minutes of fame. He belongs in jail, just like anyone else would be if they decided to take the law into their own hands. Do we really want a vigilante justice system?

[MUAD_DIB]

24. Rosa parks took the law into her own hands, and

was fed up with the white establisment telling her where she could sit on a bus. I am pretty sure that there were plenty of people at the time saying how she should be thrown into prison for her actions.

So obeying the law is more important that exposing it's weaknesses so they can be improved?

The joke here is that he is a whistleblower, and we all know what * thinks of whistleblowers.

[salin]

30. I could be wrong,

but is this different than ABC news (i think) sending nuclear material (i believe) through a shipping container, alerting the authorities after the fact, to demonstrate the weakness of security at our ports? Who at ABC news (or was it cbs?) should be locked up?

[goddess40]

4. For what - doing the gov'ts job?

Since when is the morale of Americans more important then their actual safety. If this young man had intentions of committing a crime instead of showing up the lack of 'real' security I'd agree with you. But, harrassing passengers so they 'feel' safe hardly passes for real security.

[Drifter]

5. Bullshit ...

If you apply that line of elsewhere, we would still be in the dark ages.

Airport Security has not improved since 9/11, and some argue it is much worse. Most people probably believe it is better.

Would you rather be lied to (and risk your life) in order to help the airline industry ? (Never mind I think I know where you stand).

No thanks, I would rather make an informed decision based on accurate information.

Cheers
Drifter

[Another Bill C.]

6. Airport security is a joke.

Anyone with half a brain can figure a way to get a weapon of some sort through the present security system.

I've been flying for 42 years and I don't feel any more or less secure than I did back when flying was actually enjoyable (really -- there was such a time).

[drewb]

8. No, you should be imprisoned...

for your closemindedness...

[LalahLand]

16. Do you agree with vigilante justice?

[salin]

33. vigilanti justice?

what?

That is the meting out of punishment without trial. If this kid had tried to mete out punishment, you would be correct. You are misusing the term.

[Selwynn]

19. Worst. Comeback. Ever. :D

"Your brain's the one....with the ...shell on it.."

"are you talking?"

"Shutup Richard."


Heh, sorry man.. I'm just messing with ya. :D

[LalahLand]

25. LOL, I thought so too n/t

[fob]

11. You have lessened my morale and convinced me not to buy stuff.

Please turn yourself into Herr Asskroft.

[Brewman_Jax]

12. You're quite right

about the double standard. He's lucky he made bail. He should be on his way to GITMO, but he has the "right" look about him.

[LalahLand]

21. Exactly! The right "look"

I guess to be honest I don't truly feel that this guy belongs in jail, but I know that had he been Muslim, Latino, or Black, he definately would be in jail right now and demonized all over the news!

[salin]

34. again THAT is the issue - and it is a real and a big one!

There is a lot of racial profiling going on - combined with a sick media 'chase a story for ratings' cycle that glombs onto the fear arrests (and trumped charges) WITHOUT asking the questions of race... eg WOULD this person, if white, be under this level of scrutiny or receive this punishment?

Think you would have gotten more receptivity if your thread had focused on THIS part of the issue. ala "So if the airport guy had been middle eastern.... what would the media/law enforcement be pushing now?"

[Cocoa]

14. hurt the morale of Americans?

damaged the airline industry?

I think your values might be a little screwed up.

[MUAD_DIB]

15. Inncocent until proven guilty

is still the best approach.

Did this guy commit a crime by making us less likely to fly, or did he uncover and present the sham that is Homeland Security?

One way we know what we knew all along, and that is that HS is full of BS.

The other way we are lie to about how ready these schmoes really are to protect us.

I think that this kid should get the Congressional Medal of Honor for exposing the stooge administration.


I don't know. Maybe you're right. Anyone that would endager the lives of Americans or their moral should hang.

So...what kind of sentence do you think we should give to * and gang for getting us into a war with Eye-Wrack?

[CWebster]

17. juvenile prank

With all the justifiable fear about the patriot act and homeland security abuses WHY and what do you think they will do to "close loopholes" and at what ridiculous cost?

it is a farce.

[Liberal Veteran]

23. He should be decapitated, have his head dipped in tar,

...and put on a post on the White House lawn for embarrassing the regime and hurting the "morale" of Americans. Then we should lock up his family and sterilize them to prevent them from producing anymore of these anti-American traitors and we should not release the family until we have sent through Homeland Security Re-education facilities at least 5 times and post guards outside their doors for the rest of their natural lives.

Will that suffice?

:eyes::eyes::eyes::eyes::eyes::eyes::eyes::eyes::eyes::eyes::eyes::eyes::eyes:

[Capn Sunshine]

26. Shouldn't he be tortured as well?

[Liberal Veteran]

31. Sorry...in my zealous patriotic outrage over this hardened scums actions..

...I totally overlooked that he should be tortured.

Silly me.

[Bandit]

54. Yes ~ Whack his Pee Pee

and then dip hid head in tar and post it on the whitehouse lawn for T-ball practice.

[Liberal Classic]

27. What's more important, morale or customs inspection?

The amazing thing is that he authorities did nothing when he sent them prior notification. Give him a job with the Transportation Department to look for more weaknesses in proceedure. If a college student can manage to smuggle things abord aircraft, then I am willing to bet we aren't as careful as we think. If you ask me, a false sense of security is worse than the loss of face by the TSA.

[CWebster]

32. They sure are careful when

they give me that extra going over while speaking to me like I am a criminal under suspicion everytime I fly.

[Wickerman]

28. ill-advised

but I believe the kid must be feeling like so many of us here. Our govt is lying to us. Every day. In every way. And, they then stick us with the bill for all their window dressing and false promises. They ramrod affronts to our civil rights through legislation, they ignore the will of the people in the idealology of pre-emptive war and DU coated weaponry and land mines. The economic management of this country is designed to fail - and in failing benefit the already rich.

I don't commend him for his actions, but he did point out that the Bush* administration is running a very unsophisticated shell game with our security and that Tom Ridge is a sad, sad man, in a sad, sad job.

[MUAD_DIB]

36. We interrup this thread to bring you a message

from the Office of Homeland Security.

FEAR!
FEAR!
FEAR!

Please drive to the nearest shopping mall and show your patriotism by consuming.
FEAR!
FEAR!
FEAR!

It is you patriotic duty to turn in suspected terrorist neighbors and liberal spys.
FEAR!
FEAR!
FEAR!

All is well and there is no need for you to concern yourselves with thinking. We are in control.


..this has been a message of the Office of Homeland Security

[linazelle]

37. If Limbaugh goes to prison, then the student should too

After all, they both broke the law. These selective prosecutions are ridiculous. The same standards should apply to everyone.

[LalahLand]

44. Amen! n/t

[Oilwellian]

38. What morale?

Wouldn't it be a "false" morale if Americans are duped into believing Homeland Security has made great strides in protecting us? What has the use of the color-coded warning system done to Americans willingness to fly?

This kid deserves a medal for exposing the gaping holes in airport security. TSA was caught sleeping; the pre-board inspections are a sham; ground crews don't have to face security clearance; planes aren't being inspected on a regular basis as required; need I go on? It would be delicious to see this kid given community service for his so-called crimes and be required to work it off with his local airport security force. :D

[CoffeePlease1947]

39. The idiots that were not doing their jobs should be put in prison.

The people that hurt moral are the ones that didn't catch the problem and are not doing their jobs.

Don't blame the guy that showed you were not doing your job for not doing your job.

I think they should hire the guy and fire the ones that could not figure out how he did it. They need people like him to defend us. We need him on our side.

Mike

[LalahLand]

40. But where do we draw the line for these types of crimes?

If we selectively decide who to prosecute and who not to prosecute, that promotes an unfair environment for many. Lets just keep the punishment equal to avoid that problem.

[CWebster]

41. okay

it would it make you feel safer if everyone was strip-searched before allowed entry onto a plane?

[CoffeePlease1947]

58. That is irony of it

Even when you are strip searched they can still get a knive on board. So why do that strip searching, just lock the door on the cockpit. End of story.

Mike

[LalahLand]

42. How is my argument any more absurd than calling for Rush to go to prison

since other people go to prison for the same crime?

I'm just trying to promote a "fair and balanced" American justice system. Tired of playing favorites.

[salin]

45. well... who in the ABC news team should be arrested?

remember they brought in nuclear material through a shipping container to demonstrate the current weaknesses at our ports. I think this is a more directly comparable situation with the guy and the box cutters (eg testing security/demonstrating weakness) than the Rush situation. In both the former - they were trying to demonstrate a greater good. I also believe that in both cases they, themselves (the news crew, and the airplane guy) notified the authorities.

Rush was involved in procuring illegal perscription drugs for years. And there was no greater good. He came clean when he had to, so even the "others can learn from his admitting his problem" is rather bogus, since he had years to "come clean and admit his problem" and chose only to do so when caught (or told on, be it the case.)

[LalahLand]

48. Regarding the ABC situation

I don't know much about it, but ABC falls into a different category. They are a news organization, so therefore, have a duty to present news to the public. This kid is not a news organization.

About Rush, yeah I know the situations are different but the point is I don't think drug users should be in jail, but if we're going to put some drug users in jail and not others then that is a huge problem. Similarly, if some people could be jailed for this very same crime (i.e. Muslims) then there should be no exceptions for this kid.

[UTUSN]

47. From the Thread with Two Replies

******QUOTE*****

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=566103

Imho, this dude has single-handedly exposed and discredited the lie of Shrub superiority in "national security" - as much as the Seymour HIRSH article going around about the Shrub lies about Iraqi nuke capability. Once again the Shrubbites are caught flat-footed. No matter what happens, another Shrub agency head is clueless when something happens, like the Energy fool literally asleep at the switch in the blackout. The Shrubbites look like the absolute fools and liars they actually are. This is unfortunate for Nat, since the BFEE Whistle-ass don't like whistle blowers. Title: The Short Life and Long Interment of Nat HEATWOLE.

*****UNQUOTE****

[yella_dawg]

49. Lock him up!

Anyone with the nerve to publicly demonstrate that the BFEE is spending billions blowing up Iraqis while ignoring security at home needs to be put away. Dramatizing the hypocracy is the first step down a slippery slope. Next this "student" will be claiming the "war on terra" is a ruse to line the pockets of BFEE supporters. It has to stop now!

[LalahLand]

50. If this kid was non-white, he'd be UNDER THE JAIL

Let's be honest here folks. I'm tired of the separate and nonequal justice systems.

[w4rma]

51. I don't care one whit about a morale based on fantasy.

We've got problems. And "morale" is a poor excuse for not bringing those problems to the public's view where the public can work on fixing those problems.

[Serial Mom]

52. TSA - other prosecutions?

Rep from TSA said this morning they have confiscated over 57,000 illegal objects including over 7,000 box cutters in past 8 months (must have been since beginning of year).

Have they charged or prosecuted anyone else?

[Octafish]

53. Bush should be imprisoned IMMEDIATELY.

Bush is responsible for letting the original hijackings go forward, even though he'd been briefed by the CIA, FBI, and NSA. Condescenda Rice herself explained what all the papers and stuff were about, back in August 2001. The deal is Bush didn't do anything about it, except warn John Ashcroft off of commercial flights.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2001/07/26/national/main303601.shtml

As far as this 20-year-old kid and his six breeches of airline security: He wouldn't have been caught if he hadn't turned himself in. He may be sick, but the kid didn't want to hijack and airliner. Steve Heatwole just wanted to make a point.

[sendero]

55. your username...

... is apt.

[OneTwentyoNine]

56. Sure...that's the "talking point" that Bush has demanded the media parrot

It's whats known in our World as ASS COVERING. Bush has spent billions of our tax dollars on perks for the rich and big ass contracts for Halliburton but...he'll tell you we're running big deficits because of 9/11 and all the security measures we've had to install.

OK,so this kid puts Chimpboy and his Homeland Security on their ass in one move. Yeah,thats all I've heard from HS people and prosecutor's on the radio that this kid should be jailed for years for his stunt.

Yeah sure...anything to move attention away from the joke that is HS.


David

[LibertyorDeath]

57. He is doing the Nation a public service by showing how suck ass

security is the guy should get a free vacation and the American flying publics gratitude.

Do you really think the idiot son and those who control him give a flying fuck about you. No pun intended

I mean seriously do you really believe that fantasy?

I want to KNOW...............

[DealsGapRider]

59. I disagree.

I thought he did a ballsy and noble thing to alert us to the criminal negligence of this Administration when it comes to Homeland Security.

[drdigi420]

62. But there's no room

Ed Rosenthal and Tommy Chong got the last 2 beds.

No room for terrorists when there are potheads out there to lock up!

[roguevalley]

63. give him community service then give him a medal

Really. get real. This guy told them where to look. They dismissed him.

[JanMichael]

64. Bwah! How do you feel about the following article then?

http://www.nydailynews.com/front/story/16104p-15186c.html

"To test the supposedly more stringent security imposed at the nation's airports after the Sept. 11 attacks, Daily News reporters boarded flights over the Labor Day weekend carrying contraband - including box cutters, razor knives and pepper spray."

Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear! They should ALL go to jail for scaring the American People!!!</sarc>

Home of the Brave? My ASS it is.

Get over it.

[nostamj]

65. when this story broke, a wrote a post suggesting

that the motivation behind this was activism.

i saw it as a swift kick in Tom "Costello" Ridge's balls.
i saw it as a clear indictment of HS's utter incompetance.
i saw it as a damning demonstration of BushCo's failure to protect citizens if corporate interests are involved.

the responses--prior to the student's story coming out--were mixed.

this kid should take the train from now on.

he's jumped are very big toes.

if they send him to jail, the story will stay in the headlines.

i predict BushCo will HAVE to drop it.

(i did pretty well with the first prediction. we'll see....

[brook]

66. My morale's been...

lower 'n a snake's belly since Los Supremes sung their rendition of "We Only Have Chads for You". Guess that means that until * and his many enablers are being frog-marched to the pokey in lovely orange jammies, my frown lines will continue to etch themselves into my worried brow.

This kid oughta replace Ridge. He's already proved he's smarter - and more honest.

[ComerPerro]

67. Well, I am with you in spirit

Its true that if he were non-white he would probably go to jail. But that doesn't mean that he should go to jail. It means that no one, no matter what color, should go to jail for doing that.

And then you have this weird reference to hurting the economy. Sorry, but I don't buy that.
One thing and one thing alone "ruins" the economy.
Republicans.
Did you ever notice that even when the economy is in ruins, the rich still get rich and still do very well for themselves???

[eleny]

69. No and while we're at it - Free Tommy Chong!

eom