Senator Warner on the floor Discussing General who dissed Islam

[proud patriot]

Calling for an investigation :wow:

[MidwestTransplant]

1. Sure investigate that, but not the CIA leak.

[nadinbrzezinski]

7. Bioth are important

for different reasons, but they are critical... at stake, what
Boykin did, places good order and discipline in question.

Now this only tells me the shit storm that has hit DC is of
impressive proportions

[proud patriot]

2. Sessions is acting very uneasy about Warners request

Durbin now Speaking ....

Comending Warner's comments on the general .
Important questions must be answered .

[proud patriot]

Warner thinks that the General should be assigned different duty

while the investigation goes forth .

[Hawkeye-X]

11. Yeah.. he should be demoted to private

and manning the radio tower in Alaska by the end of the day. Mail him his clothes.

A quick :beer: if you can identify the movie with that quote. (Except for the private part - I made that up)

Hawkeye-X

[stopthegop]

3. investigate what?

has no one heard of the first amendment? is there an accusation this General has misused his power? the Constitution forbids any religious tests for office...requiring him to have a given opinion about a given religion would be a religious test...

up to his superiors to handle if necessary

[ComerPerro]

4. Good point

I don't know what exactly we could "investigate".

However, I do know that it is definately not in our best interest to have a hardcore, right-wing Christian nutcase lead a campaign against a predominately muslim area. Free speech is nice, but I think he puts our country in danger when he refers to the war as a Godly action.

[salin]

6. not a freedom of speech issue

when one holds certain high offices - esp in the military - part of one's job is diplomacy and not reflecting poorly upon the office; moreover if one's exercise of free speech makes the job harder to do (by creating more hostility on the ground, and perhaps inadvertantly instigating some actions against those on the ground), then it can present an even bigger problem.

He, and anyone else holding a similar post, is well aware of this.

In terms of 'superiors' that is a good question - what is the technical relationship between congress and the armed services? just the checkbook (and oversight?) just fiscal oversight? I am not really clear on this.

[stopthegop]

8. Congress provides the money

but the President commands...not Congress...President is the only civilian (and sec of def and other presidential appointees) who 'outrank' military

[_Jumper_]

9. He said what every non-Muslim believes about Islam

And every Muslim believes each non-Muslim religion is false too. The reason he is in trouble is because what he said was divisive and further damaged America's standing in the world.

[nadinbrzezinski]

10. You are protected under the First Ammendment

The General is not, his oath of office includes
protection of the US Constitution, his statemetns actually
subvert that as he made the statement that this is a
Christian nation.

Secondly, as a member of the Armed Forces he is not suposed
to make official statements for the Army (He was wearing
a uniform) unless authorized by his chain, care to guess who
his chain is? (Undersecretary for Intelligence, it is VERY SHORT)
If he spoke official policy, then this is the view of the WH.. now we
know.

By his actions he has also egnaged in conduct unbecominig an Officer
of the US Army

he has also subverted the words of his Commander in Chief (remember trumman fired McCarthur for somethign very similar)

Since soldiers cannot engage in politics, if he is NOT punished, then
the lowest private can now engage in Politics, while in uniform.

Unless you have contact with the military, as the military likes to
put it, you woudl not realize this, common saying and the truth.

You and I are behind the Constitution, he stands in front of it.

I hope this clarifies this for you

Oh and incidentally if he said exactly what he said wearing civvies and he was never identifed as an active member of the US Army, then he enters the gray zone.

[stopthegop]

13. ok...we disagree

think whether the people upset (here, elsewhere) would be upset if you changed the religion in question to Christianity or Judiasm...seems unlikely..

have a good evening

[nadinbrzezinski]

14. My husband is in the navy

as I have stated before, he sat there shocked, not because
of what he said, but becuase the man was engaging in
politics WHILE IN UNIFORM.

I think you really have no idea what I am talking about, and
for the record, if my husband said the same thing, just replace
Jewsish for Christian, he would be drummed out of the service,
for violating the UCMJ....

Again, at least those of us with connections with the military, this is not a gray issue or freedom of speech, but a UCMJ issue and this one is pretty clear cut

[atreides1]

15. There Are....

...also regulations relating to what can and cannot be said by a service member in uniform. As well as regulations on when and where the uniform is to be worn.

And just to give you a little information, freedom of speech in the military is not a right. If all soldiers were allowed to say what they wanted to then it would adversely affect the discipline and well being of the units.

It is also against regulations for military personnel to wear their uniform at any kind of political rally showing support for any candidate.

The general is free to practice what ever religion that he adheres too, but he is not free to make comments about other religions or their practice in a public forum that is the opposite of what the President has said.

And as always the US military must remain above both the political and religious fray. All military personnel swear an oath to "Support and Defend the Constitution of The United States", this means that the general has sworn to defend Christians, Jews, Muslims, Wiccans, and any other religion that is practiced in this country.

If he is allowed to continue to make his statements without being corrected can you imagine the effects that this would have on the military as a whole.

The oath means that you will defend all, no matter if you agree with what they believe in. When you put on the uniform you don't get to pick and choose who or what part of the Constitution you'll defend, you have sworn to defend all of it.

I don't like what groups like the KKK or Aryan Brotherhood espouse, but I will defend their right to say it.

[_Jumper_]

5. He isn't doing this out of outrage

He is doing it because Virginia has a relatively large Muslim population and he is trying to appeal to them. The Virginia GOP actually ran a Muslim for the state legislature. I don't know if he won but actions like that are why we must not take the Muslim vote for granted. Remember, most Muslims, like most other people, vote based on domestic issues.

[nadinbrzezinski]

12. I don't care what is the reason

Boykin has to be reasigned as the investigation unfolds
and he has to face teh music