Presidential elections have ceased to even matter..

[SoCalDem]

Think about it..

We obsess to the point of making ourselves physically ILL, and yet, no matter who gets elected (selected), things will never really change much.

The battles we are fighting are the same ones we have fought for 50 years.

A large precentage of our population still thinks they are "better than others" because of skin color, education,lifestyle,gender-identification, or even job classification.

Most of us know in our gut, that the health care options we have today are not viable over the long term, and a majority of the population believes that as residents of the "richest country on earth", it should be our RIGHT to have decent healthcare..

Most of us know , that women's reproduction is NOT the business of a cadre of old men who sit around naming post offices and state birds, most of the time, but who get all lathered up when they have an opportunity to legislate a little feminine "disciplinary legal action".

Most of us know that a superior public education should be a birthright, and that whatever it costs, is a bargain to have educated young people, who can pick up where we leave off.

Most of us know that a living wage SHOULD be a given , in the "richest country on earth"..

Most of us know that being friends with our co-inhabitants on this planet is infinitely cheaper and healthier than constant war with those who dare to see things another way..

Most of us know that the fat cats on wall street never really intended to "share" their wealth with us, and that they would repeatedly screw us out of our life savings every generation..

Most of us know that clean air and water should be a birthright, and those who deliberately or carelessly spoil it, deserve a special place in Hell (if you believe in Hell)...

Most of us know that the legal system is and always has been the stomping grounds of the rich and famous, and the underlings have little chance for real justice...or any justice..

Most of us know that corporations are not the benevolent "job providers" that they have portrayed themselves as, for all these years..

Most of us know that social security and medicare money is what has kept this country afloat for many years, and that when the next batch of people reach 65, they will have the rug pulled out from under them, even though they have faithfully paid into the system for their whole lives..

Most of us know that our taxes that we pay are magically converted into slush funds for the super-rich, while we are told that we are greedy for expecting services in exchange for those taxes we paid..

Most of us know that no matter how hard we work, or how hard we try, we will not advance to the upper levels, because the caste system is alive and well in America..

We know that the sons and daughters of the rich and well-connected will not spill blood on foreign land..

We also know, deep down that when we vote, our vote only matters for that split second when we pull the lever or fill in the box or touch the screen.. After that, we only hope that the vote gets assigned to the person we chose..

We know that what we are told or shown by the press and media, is what the government wants us to know, and we are suspect if we seek out more than that..

We know that the first amendment is supposed to guarantee us "free speech", but free speech only matters when others can hear what we say, and without millions of dollars, we often speak into an echo chamber, populated by ourselves, alone...

.....

Whoever gets elected, may have the best of intentions, but until the whole system is purged of the hubris and self-serving greed, these "issues" will never be resolved..

Our country is being run by a pack of thieves.. Republican thieves, Democratic thieves, fundamentalist thieves, corporate thieves, military thieves, and religious thieves..

Our mothers taught us to share, but apparently someone threw Momma from the train, and we are careening down the tracks, hanging on for dear life.. We are always hoping for the saviour president or senator to rescue us, but I just don't see it happening. Money speaks with the loudest voice, and virtue is but a whisper. The sheer number of legislators in DC pretty much dictates that the ideals of our country's foundation will never resurface.. For every ddecent legislator we manage to get elected, there are 50 contrarians who will breathe their last breath fighting programs to benefit the common man..

Our success as a country, actually became our downfall. We have become such a behemoth, that we can no longer even reach consensus. There are so many issues and so many different points of view, that we can discuss, debate and legislate forever, without ever solving any problems we have.. That is the beauty of the government, as seen through a legislator's eyes.. They don't really have to DO anything; they just have to LOOK like they are doing something. The pained look on their faces when they go before the cameras, lamenting the fact that no matter how hard they tried, they just couldn't "get it done", is the same look, whether Democrat or Republican..

It's all just a shell game, and we can never pick the correct shell, because there is no pea....

[LibertyorDeath]

1. This is the Truth now what can be done to change this reality.

Thanks for this excellent post, do you ever make it to Vancouver
B.C. I could mind meld with you for days.

Have you read this?
http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/102003_beyond_bush_2.html

well worth it.

[SoCalDem]

2. Vancouver is sounding better every day

:)

[Mairead]

3. That's why Dennis is only a Congressman right now

He paid 15 years for his unprecedented temerity in saying No to the powerful thieves and making it stick.

Which of the other candidates has ever done that? What other politician anywhere has ever done that?

Dennis could have been a wealthy Senator by now, with speechwriters helping him 'explain' to us how he's on our side when he's actually helping keep the thieves' hands in our pockets.

But he chose a different path.

If we really cared about getting the thieves out of power, we'd all get behind the one person who has ever said No to them and made it stick. And we'd work our butts off to make sure every single person in the USA knows that he's the only one who has ever said No to the thieves and made it stick.

And we would make it a litmus test for re-election to every office in the nation: how many times have you said No to letting the elites put their hands in our pockets? And how many times have you said Yes?

But we don't really care, do we. It's all theater.

[morgan2]

4. both the positive and negative about kucinich

This is what makes him so perfect to be president, but also exactly why he never will be president. He's got my support, but I dont exactly have faith that he's going to win. Not only is he the best candidate out there, in my eye he's the only viable one.

[Q]

5. Agreed and...

...Kick. (Read Gore Vidal's "Second American Revolution")

[Nihil]

6. Excellent post SoCalDem!

Well thought-out and movingly presented. What's more, if you substitute
"<party A>" for "Republican", "<party B>" for "Democratic" and "<capital>"
for "DC" it applies to practically every country in the world.

This should get re-posted far and wide to open the eyes of those still able
to see.


Nihil

[union_maid]

7. You're absolutely right, and wrong

If you think that remaking the nation into one that matches our best ideals is the only goal that matters, then a president or even a party doesn't help that much. If you think that every issue is important, then it matters a lot.

Which president we elect is vitally important in small ways relative to this huge country and all of our issues, but it's very important nonetheless. When Clinton came in, companies quietly moved to comply with OSHA regulations, for instance. This is before he was even sworn in. Democrats were coming and that was enough. There are thousands of stories and programs that don't make huge headlines that have been preserved by Democrats.

Does anyone think that Gore would have done what Bush has done in Iraq? Does anyone think that Gore would have done these tax cuts? Does anyone want Bush appointing the next Supreme Court judges? Does anyone that that doesn't matter? If it's all or nothing, maybe it doesn't matter, but most people aren't living in an all or nothing world and which president is in office makes a difference in every day lives.

[0007]

9. I remember when I use to think like you!

We bleed slowly!

[Mairead]

10. I think you might be misinterpreting SoCalDem's point

Because if you're not, then I am.

I read her post as an indictment of our eternal willingness...even eagerness...to hand members of the predator class power over us. We elect them, and suffer from it, but we never seem to really, truly make the connection between what we do and what happens to us afterwards.

It's a little bit as if herds of gazelle could vote the lions out of their valley, but they don't realise this, so instead of saving themselves in a more permanent way, they graze til a lion attacks, run madly in terror until the lion kills one of them, and then go back to grazing as though nothing had happened.

[salmonhorse]

8. Agreed +/-

[Midwest_Doc]

11. You are right, but remember ....

Federal judges make the decisions that affect our lives on a day-to-day basis. Simply put, a Demcocrat President and a Democrat-controlled house and senate will provide better judges than Republicans. I ignore everything else.

[Lexingtonian]

12. I'll do you one better!

The Pessimist's Three Laws of Thermodynamics:
1. You can't win.
2. You have to lose.
3. You can't get out of the game.

Ok, that's that, it can't get worse than that.

Having said that....

The pragmatic/fatalistic take is that everything has sort of been this way for a long time. This country voted a lunatic into the Presidency in 1968 because the world seemed to be insane and he knew how to play its game. And this country has largely been run by an elite in a colonialist fashion- the whole as mostly a large set of invisible plantations- in a disorganized way since the white settlement began. I recommend a good long look at Joan Didion's recent book "Where I Was From" if you believe otherwise. And we haven't really had long periods without a crisis of some kind- people get itchy and precipitate something if it doesn't happen of its own accord, they move on to some other item on an invisible agenda of the human condition. If too much wealth piles up or lethargy or creativity permeats things to too large an extent, people set out to destroy it as a breeder of things that are intolerable. That is the lesson I took out of the late Clinton days, anyway.

The present is absurd. But you know and I know that the Mayberry you are using as a standard of comparison has not existed for many years, and it never really did. It seemed to be there, always five or ten years away if the trends we liked hold up.

The present is absurd. That is why Bush is in office, why They voted for him, and every trend that pointed to a better future seems reversed. Every denial of reality and absurdity and perverted belief of the American people at large of the present is being exploited to the extent possible by people who really have no plans other than lording it over others and retirements financed by bank accounts in the Caymans. The distillate of generations of stupid notions about how the country should really be and be run is being dispensed copiously by people who care nothing for it except the power buzz it gives. They call it "conservative ideology". Like the 'Moral Majority', it is neither, really.

The present is absurd. Maybe the way to see it is as a Mourning Process for a world, a culture and social order really, that is passing before our eyes. Its dominance (once it was almost exclusive) died amidst terrible conservative Anguish around 1998 and the fallout of the Denial and Bargaining and Bitterness stages have filled the last few years. We've seen all the pathetic/pathological states of this in the conservatives/their leaners- about 60% of voters- lashing out against third parties (Clinton, liberals, nonwhite Americans, the Arab world), unity in selfpity and delusion among themselves, the inability to behave responsibly, the emotional dependence on a stronger figure/leader (W- however ridiculous that may be), the willingness to be exploited/abused rather than abandoned of the hysterical and stricken. Now, seeing Bush begin to crash out for them, we are probably seeing the Depression phase (emotional, hopefully not economic) start to kick in for a good number.

As for your specific points, there are just too many things that have not been upgraded, reconsidered, readjusted in the past decade or two or three. And there are great domestic structural problems that are completely undealt with to boot that even real political will and panels of unselfish experts will have great trouble with solving.

The bottom line seems to me to be a need for about eight to ten years of serious work and quietly good government. All that we have as public endeavors needs a lot of reinvestments- fresh people, morale recovery, stability as institutions, bricks and mortar. Rebuilding, really, once the war is won and over in '05 and '07.

I don't know what to say about your argument with social rank. It is a time where it is poisonous. Yet the class structure forms of its own accord; people stratify according to capabilities and choices and things not chosen and who/what they are raised with. All classes depend on the others, though their relationship may be symbiotic or parasitic or not obvious, and often not quite what it seems. We do have to hope for better times, when the ruling elite is not trying to tear up the social contract and some kind of common purpose is reestablished again for the whole society. It is one idea of I think Marx's originally that all problems of a society can be solved within itself, by assigning the tasks/burdens involved appropriately and adjusting the relationship between the classes to enable the whole to act complementarily and to complete the whole. It seems obvious, but somehow all humility is lost in the present and the unity is not there to achieve much. Yet it will return, and we all the worse the longer it takes until then.

[Cocoa]

13. they still matter to me, big time

in fact, I can't think of another time when presidential elections mattered more. 2000, maybe.

[dusty64]

14. The most important thing

I can think of that will make a difference is the complete removal of corporations from our political process. Corporations should have NO rights, NO right to free speech through lobbying and dollars which completely corrupt the system. Get them the hell out of our government and our media. If and when the media actually does it's job of reporting the facts and the truth without their constant spin and agenda, the People will slowly wake up. Until then its gonna be a VERY long and hard road. The fact that they create our "voting" machines that are easily manipulated and have a clear and blatant agenda ought to be of grave concern outside of this forum, but doesn't seem to be an issue at all. Sure makes ya wonder!

[mikehiggins]

15. Sort of true but

the reason is most people don't pay any attention to politics until the big show is in town. Part of that is due to the fact that people don't talk to each other very much. The hoary old cliche about the beer halls and coffee shops in Europe don't apply in the US. People in other countries spend hours debating and arguing, the Americans have too much to do to take the time.

We elect officials more because its election day than because we understand what they stand for, or what their positions actually mean. It will take massive organization to build an actual political consciousness in this country, and the left is far too divided by its own internal disputes (abortion rights are OBVIOUSLY more important than stopping the killing of baby harp seals, etc.) to even attempt something like that.

The number of meetings I've been present at where various shades of red and pink have spent their time bashing each other over the head with arguements that were old when Stalin was screwing sheep in Georgia is huge. A fragmented Progressive movement will never be able to improve the level of political involvement among the general population, but unity requires suppression of ego and a willingness to compromise, neither of which are easy to find.

Don't look to blame the right. They know what they are about, and they're able and willing to work together to bring down what they consider 'godless' philosophies. It's the left that would rather perish than compromise.

[JPace]

16. SoCalDem.....

you really sound despondent as in "without hope".
You articulated it beautifully. I do understand
how you feel but doubt that I could have put it
out there in such a detailed fashion.

How bad can it get? Probably a lot worse than it
is now and that is depressingly low for most on this
board. The upside of watching it all happen is that
the pain people are feeling because their country
is failing them is real and getting palpable. Pain
slows one down and forces one to reflect. A too busy
and politically indifferent public will take a closer
look at our leaders and what they are doing (or not
doing). There is always hope for better choices in
the future from both our fellow citizens and our
politicians. (But)....things are going to get worse
before they can get better.

[Armstead]

17. Check this out

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=104

[SoCalDem]

20. Armstead, your link took me to DU's lobby page

:shrug:

[jobycom]

18. Nah, it's just that in a Democracy, both sides get an equal voice

That means that all those mean people you talk about have as much right to be heard as you and I. So we balance each other out. Imagine how it would be if we weren't there to keep them a little straight, if Bush could do anything he wanted without having to worry about us convincing the rest of the voters that he is bad. That's democracy, checks and balances, etc.

The courts are there to make sure that what one side wants doesn't hurt the other sides too much. Doesn't work perfectly, of course, since nothing other than choosing me as autocrat would, but it works okay most of the time. Or, it will again when we do a little exfoliation to the White House-- you know, rid it of all the Bushes.

[burr]

19. If another revolution comes it won't be a tidy one..ie redcoats vs. rebels

this time it will be a war between classes, between neighbors, between brothers, between races, between age groups, between workers, and within cities, states, and religions. Blood will be seen on every street and every sidewalk in America. And there will be no place you could possibly flee to, except to more bloodshed.

Do we really want this to happen? Neo-cons sell the slogan united we stand...but time is showing that we are not what most would call a nation. Just a rogue band of cutthroats putting our pride ahead of our childrens' future. God bless the USA!

[pmbryant]

21. They matter very very much

With a (modern, post-Gingrich) Republican in the Presidency, we, the people, have no hope of ever getting our issues addressed. Ever.

With a Democrat in the Presidency, we, the people, do have hope of getting our issues addressed. It still takes massive, prolonged fights to get it done, however. These fights can be very discouraging, but they often end up successful. There are many examples from recent decades: Medicare, Civil Rights Act, Clear Air Act, Clean Water Act, Endangered Species Act, Americans with Disabilities Act, Family and Medical Leave Act, and more.

When a (modern, post-Gingrich) Republican is in the Presidency, the problem infests the entire executive branch, as well as Congress, where the problem of big money interests is ever present.

When a Democrat is in the Presidency, the (major) problem shifts to Congress. As the above examples demonstrate, Congress, after immense public pressure over many many years, can do the right thing.

Please don't get discouraged.

We win when we keep fighting. And keep fighting. And keep fighting.

:thumbsup:

--Peter

[SoCalDem]

23. It's so hard to NOT get discouraged..

We keep plowing the same field over and over and over, and nothing ever grows..

The problems we have now are the same ones we have always had..

We elect our leaders to solve the rpoblems we cannot solve ourselves, and every new crop of elected officials promises to address OUR issues, and nothing ever really gets "fixed"..

We should have had healthcare for all...YEARS ago..
We should have had real electoral equity...YEARS ago
We knew how to "fix" the pollution problem YEARS ago, and yet 50% of the people seem to think it's a theory, while they fill their lungs with toxins with every breath
We should have the MOST educated people on earth, and we seem to be regressing ..
The things that are debated today, are the same things that were debated 30 years ago..

[pmbryant]

24. There is progress, but it is slow

Health care for all is an unrealized goal, but Medicare and Medicaid were true and real advances. I see no reason why health care for all will not be achieved in this country in the coming decades. (My guess would be within 20 years.)

The Civil Rights Act was a huge victory for 'electoral equity'. Again, we have a ways to go still, but the advances have been very real when looked at over the long term.

The Clean Air Act and Clean Water Act initiated a tremendous improvement in the quality of our air and water. Yes, it is still not ideal, but the improvements have been dramatic and are very real. Presidential elections will determine whether we continue to make forward progress (Dem) or whether we regress to the past (Bush).

Real progress is being made. Yes, it can take decades. And yes, the current crop of people in power want to send us all back to 1929 in one fell swoop.

So until this administration is out of power, we are on the defensive. Fighting to preserve the gains we have made in the last few decades.

But once we have a new administration, we can resume the march forward. It is a slow and unsteady march. But it does move forward if we continue pushing it with all our might.

:-)

The next Presidential election will determine how much longer we have to wait before moving forward again. And how much ground we will have to make up just to catch up to where we were in 2000.

--Peter

[SoCalDem]

25. I am a BRAT.. I am tired of waiting..

:pout:..

It just makes me so angry to see money WASTED for years, while we are told that "we don't have the money" for A or B.. and the truth is WE DO HAVE THE MONEY.. "They" just refuse to use it the way we want them to, or need them to..

People have lived their whole lives and DIED , waiting for things to "happen"..

I know that change is incremental and takes time, but how come the bad stuff always happens in such a hurry???

:(

[pmbryant]

26. I understand totally

Bad stuff happens so quickly, while good stuff takes years or decades to accomplish.

It is so easy to destroy, but building takes such a huge amount of time effort.

I share your frustration! :-(

--Peter

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

22. btw *love* the voting machine graphic

clever and to the point :)

[retyred]

27. I was a little depressed before

now I'm donating my organs to science. Thank You!



Retyred In Fla
So I Read This Book