What the...?? 86% of college students think Chimpy's lying about Iraq...

[ElementaryPenguin]

But 61% of them "approve" of the job he's doing as pResident!!

Sound's like we're raising a real discerning/exceptionally compassionate bunch, doesn't it? They basically think that the Chimp lied and launched an unjustified war that resulted in many pointless deaths (murders) both Iraqi and American - with many more to come - AND THE CLEAR MAJORITY REALLY AREN'T BOTHERED BY IT - i.e. MOST FLAT OUT COULDN'T GIVE A SHIT!

I wonder what impact a little move like, oh, REINSTATING THE DRAFT might just have on that jaded indifference??

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20031022/ap_on_go_pr_wh/students_bush_1

[elperromagico]

1. I'm a college student

First question: I think he lied his ass off about Iraq.

Second question: I think he's doing a lousy job and if I could vote against him every day for the next year, I would.

But, nobody asked me...

[ElementaryPenguin]

3. Thank you! Nice to hear from one of the sane 39%!!!!!!!

eom

[elperromagico]

13. No problem

I express my opinions freely at college, and I have only heard one student say they hoped Bush would be reelected.

It pisses me off that this poll is supposed to represent both myself and my fellow students (most of whom are very sensible young adults) who do not like or agree with Bush.

[Art_from_Ark]

39. Hey, perromagico

If you don't mind my asking, are you at U of A?

[elperromagico]

41. No. Formerly at HSU

Currently playing catch-up at a community college.

My advice: Don't drink through your first two years at college, unless your father's rich and your last name is Bush.

[ixion]

2. sadly, there are some people out there who think the US is always right

and that we MUST always be on the side of good, and can do no wrong.

They can't seem to fathom that we did indeed violate international law by doing this.

[ElementaryPenguin]

8. Yes - the ones who practice the Nazi brand of "patriotism"

Who seems so disgustingly prevalent in Amerika these days!!

[mlawson]

4. I bet it isn't just college students.

They might tend to be slightly more conservative than their parents, but we will see such disconects as that above, in every age group. People at large are not ideological; they do not automatically hate bush, like most of us do. It's just different for them: they are wiling to (gag) 'give him a chance'.

Now, a DRAFT, that would be a very different thing. But many students I have talked to (I teach at college) simply can NOT believe that a government can force them into the army. They know it as a rote fact, but deep down they can't make themselves accept the possibility.

[Name removed]

5. Deleted message

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[DisgustipatedinCA]

14. Bill O'Reilley....it's you again

Good to see your old favorite "shut up" is still alive and well, just like in the post yesterday where you told someone else to shut up.

You're just so charming AND well-spoken.

[Name removed]

15. Deleted message

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[ShaneGR]

6. Most bizarre poll EVER

Something is fishy. Everyone thinks he lied but they think that is ok? I want to see how the questions were phrased.

[spooky3]

10. me too--but there were no links to the survey from the Yahoo! story.

[bleedingheart]

7. College students whose daddies and mommies pulled strings

to get them into college...like the dufus I knew who flunked at Pitt...went to Penn State...flunked there and then went back to Pitt after his dad made a sizable donation to the school...and miraculously got a degree.

[Loyal]

9. Not every single college student did that.

I didn't, and most people didn't. This poll did not only poll trust fund babies.

[bleedingheart]

36. I worked my way through college

and I can tell you that about 40 percent of the kids I went with had no clue what they wanted to do but "mom and dad" wanted them to go...so "mom and dad" footed the bill and they partied...even if their parents were cleaning floors to pay for it...so not all are trust fund recipients...

Two years I interviewed a young person for a job and this person's major had been in a field that was completely unrelated to the job applied for....when I asked why this person was considering the job at our company since college degree was completely different from our company's specialty...the response was...." well I had to declare something..." Four years in college at a decent school and this individual basically was no better off than if he/she had just looked for work out of high school.

I told my peers not to hire this person. They did. This person was fired two years later due to lack of motivation, lack of understanding and poor performance and poor attendance...

That said, although I am college educated and think that anyone with the talent to go should go... I have met the most wonderful people who did not have a degree. Two people I have met in my career and personal life who have no college degree, an electrician and a painter, are among those I respect the most.

[Loyal]

11. Btw, it's SOOO progressive of you

to advocate reinstating the draft. Conscription is wrong, penguin boy/girl.

[ElementaryPenguin]

17. Um...actually, I did NOT advocate reinstating the draft, L.

I merely suggested that it may very well happen (how else is the ChimpCo Empire going to achieve all of the lofty PNAC goals)!!

[eileen_d]

12. It is bizarre, but one thing to consider

is that many of these college students were born in the 1980s. They have little experience with politicians who WEREN'T known to be lying at one time or another. (I'm not saying this is a valid reason to support Bush, just something to consider.)

Does anyone have a link to the actual poll? "College students" aren't that easy of a demographic to nail down IMO - what percentage of the students were of "traditional" college age? What percentage from public, private, and/or religious colleges?

[goobergunch]

16. Here's the topline data

http://www.iop.harvard.edu/programs/special/natlsurvey/survey_october_2003_topline.pdf

[eileen_d]

19. Thank you! Here is the actual question & stats

When it comes to their dealing with Iraq, do you think members of the Bush Administration have been telling the entire truth, usually telling the truth but hiding some things, or have they been mostly not telling the truth?

IOP 10/03
Telling entire truth...............................12%
Hiding some things.................................66%
Mostly not telling the truth ......................21%
Don’t know..........................................2%

Interesting stats on the draft issue: 11% would join the military; 38% would accept the draft; 46% would avoid the draft; 5% Don't Know.

There are also some stats on Democratic candidates.

[eileen_d]

20. How the Dem candidates fared

If the Democratic primary or caucus were held today, for whom would you vote? (Democrats only)
(n=328)
Joe Lieberman ....................17%
Howard Dean.......................16%
Wesley Clark......................9%
Al Sharpton.......................8%
John Kerry .......................6%
John Edwards .....................5%
Carol Mosley-Braun................4%
Richard Gephardt..................3%
Bob Graham .......................2%
Dennis Kucinich ..................2%
Don’t know........................31%

[elperromagico]

22. No!

Not Lieberman! Say it ain't so!

[eileen_d]

24. And here's some demographic highlights:

46% of those surveyed were freshmen.
22% reported their parents' income as $100,000 or over - in contrast, 18% reported parental income as less than $40,000.

Religion:
Protestant 27%
Catholic 23%
Fundamentalist/Evangelical Christian 21%
Jewish 2%
Other 6%
None 20%
Refused 2%

[elperromagico]

26. Stop, you're killing me!

n/t

[spooky3]

33. thanks! these are hardly representative of

college students' demographics in general. First years are probably only about 30% or less of the undergraduate college student population in general and a much smaller proportion of students if you include grad students also.

First year students often are very much influenced by their parents, and their views are very unstable--they are young and learning. With a few big events that matter to them, or if they meet someone they like at school who has very different views, they may change 180 degrees on an issue.

I also doubt that 21% of all college students are Fundamentalist/Evangelical Christian. Were fundy or conservative colleges overrepresentated in the sample?

I didn't see any info about how the data were collected or how the sample was chosen. That would also tell us a lot about how much confidence to have in the findings.

I noticed that more than 80% said they would definitely or probably vote in the next election. The actual voting of people in this age group is far, far less than that. That makes me wonder about the validity of their responses to all the other questions.

[Shakespeare]

18. In other words, "Is our children learning?"

Obviously NOT!

[kentuck]

21. And the majority of those would probably like one of those Iraqi contracts

to go along with their new BS degree...

[Flying_Pig]

23. Maybe we ought to bring back the draft? It might let some of these

kids know that war isn't as neat and tidy as it is on their video games. Thankfully, there are still plenty of enlightened students out there. For many, it's their first time away from home. If they've got wing-nut parents, it's also their first time away from their direct influence. Hopefully, their views will expand right along with their minds, now that mummy and daddy aren't filling their heads with Repuglian b.s. every night.

[elperromagico]

25. My parents are conservative

and until I was about 18, I considered myself conservative as well. But the more I looked at the issues, and developed opinions about them, the more I realized that I was a liberal. Now I can't understand why I ever thought conservatism was a good thing.

I'm just glad I reached the realization before I was eligible to vote in a national election...

[kentuck]

29. Do you think the media had anything to do with your early conservatism?

Or did it seem to you that it was the dominant political philosophy in the nation when you were younger? And what was your opinion of the opinion of Reagan? Just curious?

[elperromagico]

34. I don't know about the media's influence

I don't recall watching much media coverage when I was younger. The first thing I honestly recall watching (that was political in nature) was the inauguration of George Bush in '89.

Conservatism was the rule of thumb in my world, certainly. To my parents, Republicans can do no wrong; Democrats are responsible for every evil thing in this country. I fear I picked up my early conservatism primarily from them.

Reagan? From a child's point of view, he seemed like a nice old grandfather. I hate to admit that I didn't really pay much attention to any president until Clinton, and it wasn't until Bush II that I really became interested.

It's strange; I had the names of the presidents memorized by age 6, but I didn't really start paying attention to what they were doing until about age 15.

[eileen_d]

30. Well, here's to you!

:yourock:

Seriously, this poll was 46% freshmen - in OCTOBER, yet. Some folks are just establishing their OWN identities at that point, never mind establishing their politics. (As for me, I was establishing a reputation for being a very messy drunk!)

And of course on DU we know that there are college AND high school students who know plenty about politics, and are smart enough to see through the Bush* administration! :toast: (non-alcoholic of course)

[Flying_Pig]

31. Good for you Magic Dog!

:hi:

[mlawson]

27. ONLY if those who vote for bush next year are drafted.

That would serve them right, but only them. Of course that can't be done, but what a shame it can't be. :evilgrin:

[MuseRider]

32. My oldest told me last weekend

that he tries but everyone he talks to thinks he is a conspiracy nut! He does go to an AG school in a Republican state. This kid is far more conservative than I am but still a lefty. He did say that every now and then someone who looks like they are actually listening will say that he might have a point. I just told him to keep it up, converts are made one at a time.

[elperromagico]

37. It's worth noting

that I am a music major, and surround myself with what I assume Bush would call "artsy-fartsy types." It might be that there is a bias against Bush among college-age artists.

Still, I would be hard-pressed to find any Bush supporters among my fellow students. Most of the people I come across either A. Don't care, B. Tolerate Bush, or C. Can't stand the bastard.

[incapsulated]

28. Actually, it's consistant with the general population...

I don't have any links, but I remember that the polls where basically showing that most people didn't care whether or not WMDs where found.

Which can translate into: "yeah, it was overblown, but we approve of removing Saddam".

People don't like to admit they where played, you know?

[ComerPerro]

35. well, this could be a lot of things

But I am suprised that the 61% approval... Who the fuck did they poll, the frat houses????

By the way, I have noticed that a lot of conservatives will admidt that Bush was less than honest, some will even say he deliberately lied, but they don't care. Apparently lying about nuclear proliferation to start a war is acceptable.

[elperromagico]

38. The problem may be

that these college students get their information from a single source rather than from a collection of sources. Even Faux News covered the sexed-up Iraq evidence, but they still trumpet Bush as some kind of cross between Lincoln, Churchill, and Reagan.

It's also possible that, like a lot of Americans, college students are giving Bush the benefit of the doubt. They think he's doing a subpar job, but they think he's a "decent fellow." Once a Democratic nominee emerges, I think you will see Bush's numbers among college students (and among Americans in general) drop.

I'm beyond giving Bush the benefit of the doubt, and no amount of personal charm is going to convince me that a man who has failed in every aspect of leadership deserves a second chance.

[spooky3]

40. I hope you are right.

[Cat Atomic]

42. I'd like to see another poll, personally.

The two statements just don't jibe. "He lied to start a war, but I like it"... I just don't buy it. I'd like to see the questions that were asked on this poll, and I'd like to see what other polls say on the same issue.

I suppose this poll could be accurate, but it just doesn't make logical sense to me.