Could someone please explain to me the "Greens for Clark" phenomenon?

[Baconfoot]

I was talking to a Green Party member today who claimed that he supports Clark and that there is quite a bit of Clark support amongst California Greens.

Is JUST this a case of "If you're going to bite the bullet, might as well make it a big one?"

i.e.: Is the explaination for Greens supporting Clark JUST that they think Clark has the best chance and have gone ape-ABBA?

Or is something else going on here?


--------------
http://gore2004.meetup.com
Support your local "The Real President"

[mkregel]

1. The stakes are high

We gotta win. A lot of people (Michael Moore included) think Clark is the man that can beat Bush.

[Julien Sorel]

2. Exactly why is Clark a 'big bullet' to bite?

If you're going to go into the conspiracy theories, save me the trouble of reading through your reply, but if you think Clark is more right wing than any of the other candidates, ie, more unaceptable to the Greens, I'd like to know why.

[Baconfoot]

11. No I just would have thought Kucinich or Braun a more likely...

Green selection prior to the primaries having happened.

[izzie]

3. I am on the list as green but I am a Nader Dem really.

These half Rep. we call Dem drive me nuts. Nader thinks like my type of Dem. so far Clark does not turn me on.

[WilliamPitt]

4. Expiation of sins?

*ducking, fleeing*

[retyred]

5. After what happened in 2000

I think many of them don't want to see it happen again so it's become ABB with them, did you ask your friend why he/she wanted Clark?

Wanting Clark does surprise me though for a green.



Retyred In Fla
So I Read This Book

[Baconfoot]

12. What he said was...

the pure ABB explaination but I wondered if there was more to it.
The interaction was brief and puzzling.

[Pastiche423]

6. There is a large pecentage of Greens

in my neck of the woods. Actually, my closests friends are Green. They ask me, why would Dems support him?

They do not support him and neither does this Dem!

[ursacorwin]

15. yup.

greens all gushy over clark: fake.
greens all gushy over someone progressive: real.
greens for clark: moles or dupes.

[JVS]

7. Consider the long term goal of the Green party.

I would suggest that some of the support of Clark is rooted in the polarizing nature of Clark's candidacy. If large numbers of party leftists defect over a Clark's nomination, no one stands to benefit more from this than the Greens. Also, the fact that Clark has no political experience would fit in well with a Green argument that the Democratic party is weak and feeble, needing to outsource leadership roles out of an inability to cultivate its own leaders. Further, there is the matter of such things as Clark's GOP fundraising. Something like that would be very effective ammo in the "No significant difference" department. Finally, Clark's appeal seems to be targeted at "Reagan Democrats", the more of these the Democratic party can draw in, the more the Greens can go after the far left Democrats.

[Catch22Dem]

8. This site may shed some light

Lots of info. May be an answer to your question in here: http://www.enviros4clark.com/best.shtml

[RandomUser]

9. Interesting website

Thanks.

[Tinoire]

10. That is too funny

The meme-writer is going a little over-board with this one.

The day I run into a California Green supporting Clark, I will donate $100 to his campaign. From what I've seen in the California Green circles I work in, my money is safe and earning interest.

A phenomenon indeed!

[Baconfoot]

13. I swear that's what the guy said. n/t

[Tinoire]

20. You know- I will not disbelieve you

but he was either pulling your leg or is a Green in disguise ;)

Green philosphy is diametrically opposed to Clark.


I did see my first "Wesley Clark for President" bumper sticker while out walking at lunch-time.

If it makes you feel good- this was in California on a beaten up total mess of a car with a "Humane Society" sticker on the window. A real Liberal's car is what I'm getting at here.

Shocked the (*^ out of me but hey, I'll post that here kicking and screaming. I did want to go find the owner of the car and ask him if he'd lost his mind (or her) but score 1 for the Clarkies, I just walked on. Next time, I'll just camp out and wait for the owner to return ;)

Yeah, there it was... for all to see... "Wesley Clark for President".

[FrenchieCat]

23. Give it up now......I am Green/French socialist , and supporting Clark

and supporting Clark
Cause I want to win, and The Democraphics say it will be so......

I'm tired of losing!

Actually on a lot of issues, Clark is willing to take a chance whereby others won't. He has the luxury and I believe the will.

My first priority is the military budget...the strangulation of all other social programs for the benefit of the military industrial complex is absurd!

This is what Clark said about it in a letter to his supporters:

"We will streamline the government and work more efficiently. Let me be clear, I support every dime we need to keep America strong, but a military label doesn't justify waste or inefficiency"-
Wes Clark

[Pastiche423]

28. How can you vote in the

Democratic primary if you are a Green? Has California changed their voter laws in the past few years?

[Renew Deal]

30. This week...

I saw something this week that said California has opened up the primary to indpendents.

[Pastiche423]

33. Uh............ he said he was a GREEN!

Link please to California's change in primary laws.

[Pastiche423]

43. You must have been mistaken

California's blanket primary initiative thrown out by Supreme Court

"On Monday, June 26 2000, the United States Supreme Court struck down California's so-called "open primary" law (which is technically a blanket primary), on the grounds that it violated political parties' First Amendment rights to freedom of association. California's blanket primary system was enacted in 1996, when voters passed Proposition 198. The revised primary system allowed voters to cast ballots for any candidate of any party in the primary regardless of the voters' party affiliation. California's 1998 and 2000 primaries were held under the blanket primary process."


http://www.calvoter.org/cvfnews/cvfnews062900.html


FYI: The California Green Party was never a part of the blanket party initiative. Therefore, a Green could not vote in the California Democratic primary. Sorry, Frenchie4clark, you can not vote in the primary as a Green.

[carpetbagger]

14. Clark has a few things going for him in this department.

1. His rhetoric is heavy on long-term commitments, i.e., when we're all dead and gone. I, for one, think he's got vision on the thing.

2. He's gotten heavy into alternative technologies and R+D into energy-saving technologies. It was a significant focus in his brief business career.

3. His positions are as pro-environment as any of the others in major contention (e.g. ANWR, greenhouse)

[WillyBrandt]

16. Because Clark is absolutely fantastic candidate

Folks can recognize a winner. You've got:

* Establishment Dems
* Grassroots Dems
* Moderate Republicans
* Greens

Liking the guy. Not just because they hate Bush--though many do. But because Clark is fresh-faced, has an impressive devotion to country, and is just a great progressive choice.

[Pastiche423]

22. There you go!

To Dems, he is a Dem
To repugs, he is a repug
To Greens, he is a Green
To Indys, he is an Indy

What is it they call something that can change to look like its environment?


It's a...

!

And it's GREEN!


Damnit! Now I can't get that song outta my head.

Karma Karma Karma Karma Karma Chameleon...

[ursacorwin]

25. HO HO HO!

wes and boy george, dancing on the bridge of the riverboat...

funny!

[Renew Deal]

32. That's funny

Pastiche, that's one of the best posts I have ever seen from you. I think what you are describing is Clarks appeal. He does appeal to all kinds of people. Young and old. Men and women. Democrats and Republicans.

:bounce:

[Sesquipedalian]

17. Clark is a post-modern art project

He is a non-entity that you can project anything you want onto.

Anyone claiming to know his positions is just flat-ass lying.

He says damn little and contradicts himself half the time leaving his supporters and detractors to try and explain his statements. These "explanations" have little to do with actually being able to understand his positions and everything to do with his defenders or dectractors own opinions they have projected onto him to set their ideals or fears.

As time goes on he will define himself for himself and a more serious analysis can be made. Until then to me he is nothing but an interesting political phenomenon.

[WillyBrandt]

18. Blah blah blah

He has said nothing, except for what he has said. Go to the issues section of

www.clark04.com

[Sesquipedalian]

19. quite illuminating

click "on the issues" and watch how informative the site is.

[not systems]

24. leadership ... right choices ... challenges ...

That issues page is pod people level talk.

What's next kissing babies.

I liked what Clark said in the speech I saw on CSPAN
but "New American Patriotism" leaves me cold.

I'm sure it sells to some people but not me.

[RandomUser]

27. Did you bother clicking on the things on the right of the issues page?

The plans are rather detailed. For instance, the economic plan names specific agencies targeted for elimination, and constructs a method of forcing Congresses hand regarding closing corporate loopholes via a commission.

[Julien Sorel]

35. You disappeared.

Find something on the issues page you didn't like, did you? Like the fact that it's there? ;-)

[Pastiche423]

39. It's a bit difficult

to find much on the "issue pages". There's not a lot of there, there.

[incapsulated]

26. What?

Even those who detest Clark and view him as something akin to the anti-christ haven't said that he hasn't made his positions clear. Just that they think it's a pack of lies, heh.

You are the one being vague. What issues has he dodged? Where has he refused to answer a direct question about his stand on an issue? Anyone who visits his site can find plenty of information on just about every topic. Not just in the "issues" section, in his interviews and articles. He is asked his opinion on whatever "controversy" is the hot topic of the day all the time and always answers directly.


He has said he is pro-choice, pro-affirmative action, against iraq war, against tax cuts for the wealthy, against corporate welfare, anti-voucher etc, etc. I really don't know what you are talking about.

[Forkboy]

21. I can't explain it

the Greens I know have serious issues with him.

[HFishbine]

29. Maybe

The greens you've met haven't considered Clark on civil liberties?
---------

Retired Gen. Wesley K. Clark helped an Arkansas information company win a contract to assist development of an airline passenger screening system, one of the largest surveillance programs ever devised by the government.

Starting just after the Sept. 11, 2001, terror attacks, Clark sought out dozens of government and industry officials on behalf of Acxiom Corp., a data powerhouse that maintains names, addresses and a wide array of personal details about nearly every adult in the United States and their households, according to interviews and documents.

<snip>

The privacy impact of anti-terrorism initiatives is certain to be a major issue in the presidential campaign," said David L. Sobel, general counsel at the Electronic Privacy Information Center, an advocacy group in the District.

"The public is extremely skeptical," he said. "He owes the public an explanation as to how, if elected, he would limit the government's expanding collection of personal information about citizens."

www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/ articles/A7380-2003Sep26.html

[wyldwolf]

31. This seems to be ALL you have and you keep repeating it...

You even put up a "survey" with results that have to be disappointing to you.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=578303&mesg_id=578303

[Name removed]

34. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[wyldwolf]

38. uh! Were you naughty again?

You need to watch that temper - high blood pressure and all.

[Bertrand]

40. it appears that

saying someone doesnt have any character for purposefully spamming the board with anti-candidate propaganda constitutes a "personal attack". Ive voiced my concerns over the rule with Skinner.

[wyldwolf]

41. oh, sorry, Bertrand...

..I thought the deleted post was from HFishbine.

[wyldwolf]

36. Michael Moore audio on Wesley Clark...

hysterical!

www.liberalresurgent.com/mooreclark.mp3

[Hep]

37. I think you have it

I think he looks the most like an outsider. That's what they want, the ones who support Clark, a rebel. That's why some like Dean. Mos tlike Kucinich because he's the most representative of what's important to them.

Just my take, folks.

[ThomWV]

42. Or

I think his legacy statement is enough to sooth the environmental concerns of many who see themselves as greens. Who else sees the environment and our retaining the constitution in tact as our only lasting legacy? It was all he had to say to satisfy me.

Thom

[John_H]

44. There's obviously a smart virus outbreak among your green friends

A huge percentage of greens are flooding back to the Dem party, but I'd be surprised Clark is the first choice of many. Then again you never know.