Point Blank: Should the father be able to overrule the mother on abortion

[Selwynn]

Poll question: Point Blank: Should the father be able to overrule the mother on abortion

This is coming from the "should a man have any say" thread which is now getting parsed out in about twenty different directions.

So I have a point blank question I'd like a yes or no answer to:

QUESTION: If they cannot come to agreement, should the father have the right to overrule the mother on her decision to have an abortion?

YES OR NO.


Edit - in case there is any confusion, I vote NO

[trumad]

1. Better yet

should a women be allowed to castrate a man for impregnating her...

[whirlygigspin]

2. what a question!

what's next? bound feet coming back in style?

[Selwynn]

4. Hey, you should see the answers on the other thread...

then you'd understand why I put this question up.

Apparently some people around here DO think the man should be able to overrule the woman.

[JVS]

3. Wow, 29% yes

[trumad]

5. 29 percent idiots

[Selwynn]

9. Yup - exactly my point in creating this poll

...showing the fact that there's quite a few people who think (big suprise) that the will of the male should be more important than the will of a woman over her own fucking body.

As a man, this disgusts me.

[Devils Advocate NZ]

15. No, I think you have it wrong.

What some people are saying is if a man has an obligation to the child after it is born, then he should have a say in whether it is born at all.

That is why I think my question below is actually better for guaging how people think on this matter. I think you will find that there will be very few people who say that a man or woman should be forced to become a parent.

[Selwynn]

20. Your obligation to a chile comes from being a decent human, not ..

...because you had a "say" in whether it was born or not.

There is no condition, NONE - not even your possibly being required to support a child, that TRUMPS the right of an individual PERSON to make decisions about her own body.

[Muddleoftheroad]

23. No it doesn't

It comes from the law. The woman makes the choice to have the child or not, but the man has to pay and has no say in that choice. That's not being nice, that's being forced. So I can't make individual decisions about MY life, but she can?

[Blue-Jay]

26. So, I suppose you would agree that a "decent"

human being would feel some sort of obligation in consulting her partner before deciding on aborting a pregnancy?

(note for the reading-comprehension-impared: No, I'm NOT saying that a man should have any sort of legal veto power, so don't don't try that shit with me)

[Devils Advocate NZ]

6. I didn't vote.

If the poll asked "Should any person be forced to become a parent, with all the obligations that entails?" Then I would vote No.

Of course, in this case "person" means "man or woman".

[Selwynn]

13. What the does that have to do with anything - answer the damn question?

If you are making some kind of argument along the lines of "She made her choice when she chose to have sex" you have a pretty insane view of woman in society.

You are ASSUMING it was a choice made freely. In this male dominated society, where pressure is put on men to fuck to be "normal" and on women to be subservient to the man, young women frequently feel like they are supposed to be having sex, and to not do so means there's something wrong with them. All of the sudden, without really even understanding the real concequences or understnading the choice, they're pregant.

"She made her choice when she chose to have sex" is the biggest bunch of bull shit I have ever heard. That might be true in a non-partiarchal society in which woman weren't COERCED INTO HAVING SEX every day. But guess what, this is the real world, where woman are often manipluated into feeling that it is their obligation to give a man what he wants. So you can take your "sex is her choice" crap and shove it.

If you're not making that argument, I'm sorry. That argument makes me want to explode with rage.

[Devils Advocate NZ]

No, not even close, although many other do make that claim...

in regards to the man in the equation.

What I am saying is that if a woman wants to have a child and the man doesn't, then the man should not be forced to take on any of the resposnibilites of child rearing, whether they be physical, emotional or financial.

The same goes for women. If the man wantsto have the baby, but the woman doesn't, then the woman should not be forced to to take on any of the responsibility of child rearing, whether they be physical, emotional or financial.

In the latter case this means a woman should be allowed to have an abortion whether the man wants it or not, and in the former case it means that if a woman wants to have the child then the man should not be forced to accept any responsibility for it, including being named as the father, or paying child support.

Equality goes both ways.

Also, you clearly did not "explode with rage" on the other thread when someone said that a man should be forced to take responsibility for an unwanted child because "he already had the choice of whether to have sex with the woman or not".

In fact on that thread I clearly stated that this kind of argument goes both ways and thus is the MOST STUPID argument a pro-choice advocate could make.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

7. The law if it is going to err should err on the side of the party assuming

the greatest risk. That would be the woman.

[MissMarple]

11. I have to agree with that.

.

[arcane1]

8. there needs to be a 3rd choice:

f*ck no

you may be able to get a tentative 'maybe' out of me in a rare case where the mother, for some reason, is unable to make that decision for herself (be it a mental issue, medical, or who knows what) but that would be a big maybe

[janekat]

10. To all women: we've got our work cut out for us - Kobe case, Gov Arnie

what's next???

[MissMarple]

12. Kobe's different. Rape? Maybe...

maybe not. There are only two or three people who know for sure.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

18. Wearing dresses to work, a burka when in public and signing informed

consent to be sexually harassed in exchange for a job. :eyes:

[in_cog_ni_to]

14. No n/t

[arwalden]

16. The Man DID Have A Say...

... all the way up until the time his little Swimmers found their target.

It's a "gift" that he gives to her. He has given it willingly and freely. They now belong to her. He has no claim on them anymore. (You see... I can learn a lot from watching Judge Judy.)

For some strange reason I'm reminded of that KnowAids.Org commercial where the large black woman is imitating all the things she's heard from her boyfriend.

"You know I luuuuv you, girl."
"You're not gonna let THIS come between us now."

-- Allen (with random neurons firing tonight)

[ScreamingMeemie]

17. Well put.

Very well put.

[arcane1]

22. dude, I'm gonna have nightmares about your Coulter pic

that thing is frikkin SPOOKY!!!

[Selwynn]

24. I agree but, what do you think about this...?

See post #13... I'm a little hesitant to make the argument that "the man made his choice when he chose to have sex" because I utterly reject the argument that "a woman made her choice when she chose to have sex"

That's why I stick to the, "no man should be able to make personal medical decisions for another person" argument. What do you think?

[agingdem]

19. No...

Not unless the father can get a uterus transplant and he gets to do the whole nine months thing plus labor and delivery...then and only then should he have say.

[Nikia]

21. For how the law would be applied, I'd say no

This would imply that a woman would have to have the consent of her husband or partner to have an abortion and that is wrong. It would be especially wrong when the husband or male partner is abusive and making her have the baby as another form of abuse.
Practically, I'd encourage all couples to discuss how you personally feel about abortion if it is important to you. If you are a man who would never want your child aborted, you'd better be sure that the woman you are having sex with agrees. If you are a woman and would want an abortion if you unintentionally became pregnant, make sure that your male partner would be alright with that. I have known long term relationships that were broken because of this disagreement. Perhaps, some of these relationships were on the way to ending already, but having a female partner aborting what a man considers to be his child who he wants to raise or a male partner pressuring a woman into having a baby that she doesn't want would be stressful on any relationship.

[Clete]

Andrea Yates comes to mind.

eom

[sistersofmercy]

25. NO!

[ScreamingMeemie]

27. Dupe

Please post here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=574126&mesg_id=574126

or to the non-poll discussion thread here:


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=573092&mesg_id=573092

[JanMichael]

28. It's not such a simple question but no.

Ultimately no.

No, no, NO.

I defer to possession and viability.