Something we have to be aware of.

[lynndew2]

My department I work in is me and two(one semi) repukes. But In the manufacturing dept. most are dems. I was walking around today and several of the blacks and one hispanic(all dems) were saying that the dem party is full of sh@t!!!

I joined in to see what they were saying. They were all saying that the dem party pretends to be about minorities but when it comes to a minority judge they filibuster or just reject them. I tried to tell them its because they believe conservative issues.

They told me it was BS. They almost seemed mad at me and said it was all BS that the DEMS had never been for their rights. I think this thing in Cali with Janice Brown set em off. The Mexican said they did the same to Estrada.

I think this is a slippery slope we are riding and It might be backfiring badly.

Just telling you what I heard and need to go to bed. Hope you will take this to heart and understand that what our leaders are doing might just backfire.

Sweet Dreams all!!!

[Girlfriday]

1. Tomorrow tell them...

That the Black Caucus was out en mass today to denounce her.

[lynndew2]

5. Just telling you what I heard...

You can hide behind your umbrella if thats how you feel safe. I am off to bed and I hope others who understand, read and respond.

[Guaranteed]

9. Right, well just do your best to inform them

of what's going on, is all...that's all we can do.

[bluestateguy]

2. reply

The problem is that if Democratic senators start blocking nominations of only white conservatives they will be labeled as racist and the White House will send up ever more black and Hispanic conservatives judicial appointments. They probably should have let Estrada through as a token gesture (but still vote no), but otherwise there are just as many constituencies that will pounce on the Democrats for playing nice if they were to give in. They expect the Democrats to act like an opposition party and judicial nominations are the best venue to do so.

[E_Zapata]

29. If you think they should have let Estrada through,

then you don't know anything about Estrada, and to suggest such a thing is reckless.

Seriously, Estrada is a dangerous MoFo, whose FIRST assignment on the bench was to take care of Dick and the energy documents case.

[La_Serpiente]

3. Do they want to lose their minority rights?

Then can go right ahead if they want to support such extremist judges to the presidency. They are just buying into what the Repukes are saying.

Issues they are concerned about will all be lost. Gun Control. Out of the question if they support Janice Brown. Affirmative Action. Gone. Those are the things their parents fought for and now it is going down the drain.

They can believe what they like, but if they refuse to look past the color, then I guess there is nothing the Democrats can do then.

They fillibustered Estrada because he had no record. They are just misinformed.

[liberalmuse]

4. This only shows...

how ignorant the electorate are. If Americans would bother to dig a little deeper into the issues and try to get the facts, we wouldn't be in this mess. Voting for someone because of such superficial reasons as skin color, recognizability and because you liked a guy's movies is just not going to cut it. There's not much we can do to combat this kind of willful stupidity--I mean, they weren't even willing to listen to a different opinion on the matter. Honestly, people like this deserve Bush. We in America have free education and a helluva lot more opportunity than 99% of the people in the world, and so many of us choose to be ignorant assholes. Like leader, like people.

[DuctapeFatwa]

6. Minority and low income people are not really relevant to US politics

The polarization and marginalization has moved beyond that now.

No candidate of any party has anything to offer either low wage earners or minorities, and although the affluent voting classes may not have as keen an awareness of the reality of the situation, this is one instance where in many ways, the marginalized are in fact more sophisticated and less gullible than their affluent voting class compatriots.


The minimum wage, just as an example, is now, by the government's figures, right around 25% of the average apartment rent.

This means that in order to afford housing, a minimum wage earner must hold down at least 4 full time jobs.

In other words, the free market value of a day's work has now fallen below the free market value of a day's survival.

No candidate who hopes to attract campaign contributors, or address the interests of the top 25 income tier, who are the people who vote, and the people who are practically speaking, able to vote, and whose faith traditions include the voting process, is going to do anything that will significantly change the effects of decades of policy.

Candidates would do better to channel resources toward the affluent whose interests they both understand and share.

As for that bottom 75 tier income group, a political solution is no longer a realistic possibility.

The fuse is lit. The rich folks should just go ahead and enjoy their election.

[mhr]

8. The Revolution Cometh Closer, Day by Day, Month by Month, Year by Year.

eom

[FlemingsGhost]

19. Yup.

The sooner the better...

[RichM]

7. That does it!! We should all call our senators & ask them to quit this

nonsense of filibustering against RW judge nominees from ethnic minority backgrounds!!

Gosh darn it!! This excessively zealous liberalism of our Democratic Congresspersons has gone far enough!! They are taking too many political risks. They are out of touch with mainstream American values.

What we need, are Dem congresspersons who are sensible and moderate, instead of all these fringe leftists! :eyes::eyes:

[juajen]

30. Right on, RichM

That original post was pretty transparent. A hit and run, too. Ah well, live another day, post another post. Is this beginning to seem futile to anybody else? I know, I know, keep on fighting.

[Syrinx]

10. I don't want the party to be "about minorities"

Let the Republicans be about the minorities... the billionaires. Let the Democrats be about the MAJORITY of the people that are getting screwed by this evil government that we have right now.

[Nashyra]

11. Ask what there views are

one by one and then tell them Estrada does not believe in those views and in fact he believes in just the opposite. Go through the issues one by one and then inform them that the Dem party was courageous enough to stand against Estrada at the risk of the minority voters because of what damage he could have done to their rights.

[Zorra]

12. Blocking conservative judges is

the right thing to do. A conservative judicial system is just as dangerous as a neocon president.

[Lone_Wolf_Moderate]

13. The Dems are Playing with Fire...

I hate to say this, but your friend has a point. What happened to Miguel Estrada was a disgrace. Judge Brown I'm not sure about, but the point is, the Dems are hurting themselves politically, and frankly, acting like whiny babies with respect to these judges. The Repubs did it all the time with Clinton, but let's face it folks, they're in power now, and the swing voters are getting the impression that the Dems are biased against conservatives, and this perception needs to die.

[Syrinx]

15. reality is even more important than perception

The courts are already heavily right-wing, despite 8 years of Clinton. The Dems need to show backbone and stand up to the administration. Remember this is a BIG deal. Federal judges get lifetime appointments. If the Dems roll over on this, they might as well leave Washington and let the neo-cons have the whole thing.

[Lone_Wolf_Moderate]

17. I'm not saying the Dems should roll over,

but at least let these judges have their vote. Vote no on the nominations, and blame the Repubs when the shit hits the fan. This obstruction is not just politically dangerous, it's stupid.

Of course the Dems are going to put forth their agenda. We're Democrats, and we believe in a Democratic agenda. I'm just saying that it will appear as if we're not playing fair. It's stupid, but perception is reality in politics.

[Syrinx]

21. if they let them go to the floor, the 'pugs win every time

Judges are important. And it's just about the only leverage that the good guys have right now. Hopefully this will change come January 2005.

[Lone_Wolf_Moderate]

22. I know that,

but if this perception that Dems are trying to block fair-minded judges for poltical gain continues, we will lose. This is a false perception of course, but that's what the people are hearing. The goal is to have fair-minded and qualified judges, who will put ideology aside, and interpret the law. Judges shouldn't be kicked out just for being liberal or conservative, only if their record reveals an inability to separate one's ideology from their duty. Most of the judges Bush has put up have been activists, and pretty far to the Right. That's why every Democrat should vote no on their nominations, if they're really that bad. Let them have a vote, so the Repubs can't complain about the unfairness, and hope and pray that the sensible moderates see the truth.

Yet, as I write this, I must admit you have a point. Thsese judges are for life, and if right-wingers get full control, then we are doomed.

[Syrinx]

25. ah, a point of agreement... I like that

I see your point about politics. But the republicans play hardball, and I think it's high time the good guys started fighting back. These republican bastards hate everything America stands for, and if our people don't fight back, I can't see the point in continuing to vote for them. In that case, it's time for me to sneak into British Columbia and say screw the United States.

[Lone_Wolf_Moderate]

26. First off, don't give up on America,

there's nothing wrong with America, than can't be cured by what's right with America. Secondly, you have a point. The Repubs aren't playing nice. They never have. They loyal opposition needs to start opposing, without sinking to the level of the scoundrels (the Repub elites).

[Syrinx]

16. what the hell?

I should hope and pray that Democrats are biased against conservatives! Otherwise, what is the point of this experiment we euphemistically call a democracy?

[Xithras]

14. Hispanics will eventually split

Hispanics tend to be conservative in all the wrong areas...the vast majority are devoutly religious, they oppose abortion, they support gun rights, they are pro big-family and many oppose even birth control, most oppose just about all tax increases, many are hispano-nationalistic and even borderline racist, etc., etc. Hispanics are Democrats for two reasons:

1) They're afraid the Republicans will close the borders (valid fear).
2) They're afraid the Republicans will cut their social services (also a valid fear).

Unfortunatly for we Democrats, there's a problem lurking in the mist here. In many areas of the west, Hispanics will be the clear majority within the next 10 to 25 years. At that point I fully expect that we'll see the rise of a "Hispanic Party". There are already some rumblings for it among the hispanic youth, and once they obtain a majority in these areas it is likely that this party will become politically dominant and take away that Democratic base.

Since the Republicans are pretty much already the party of rich white males and dumb rednecks who don't know any better, this political shift probably wont hurt them much. The Democratic Party may find itself crippled by this shift however, and needs to do everything it can to head it off.

If that means pandering to the hispanics, so be it. At present population growth rates, hispanics will be the majority within this country within 100 years anyway, so it really just represents the shifting of our focus from the "population of the past" (middle class whites) to the "population of the future" (first, second, third generation hispanic immigrants).

[Mel]

18. you need to educate them

the judical is the last branch and once that's full of conservatives we are all Toast.
The taking of the judical is a part of the plan check out these links and print it for these people to read. There's a ton of information out there here's some links to get you started.

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2000/0003.landay.html

http://www.commonwealinstitute.org/information.html#federalist

It's not BS and it sounds to me like they are getting their information from just the TV and they need to be informed of just who owns what media and how that is reflecting on the information they are getting. So, I say point that out and add some of the information above that I gave you links for.

This is no slippery slope it's about standing up and fighting the reich cause that's what it is. I wonder did the media even report that the black caucus was there during the hearing of the judge today? Have the people your talking about even read any of this judges briefs?
What's going to backfire is when it's to late then these same people you are telling us about are going to want to know why we didn't warn them or why the Dems didn't stand up against these neo-conservative judges.
I guess, the bottom line is it's up to us to do the best we can to inform people one person at a time because the media is not going to do it for us.

[Hippo_Tron]

20. I think we need to pick our battles with the judge fillibusters...

It's one thing to fillibuster somebody who is total white trash, it's another thing to fillibuster somebody just because they are conservative. BTW they sound like Democrats who have been listening to too much Rush Limbaugh.

[Syrinx]

23. if it's okay to fillibuster white trash...

Isn't it okay to fillibuster black or brown trash too?

[incapsulated]

24. I don't buy this

We, and by "we" I mean "people of color" in general, where fooled once with the Clarance Thomas bullshit. Black folks that supported him now admit that he is nothing but another house nigger.

Most americans don't have a clue about these nominations unless it becomes a primetime melodrama involving sex and wild stories (Thomas). I doubt very much that this is a topic of discussion among even registered democrats. Janice Brown is the worst nominee to come up in a long time. She must be stopped by any means necessary. We are talking about the future of the Supreme Court here, people.

As for minorities feeling betrayed by the Party, that is not new. Although Clinton did a lot to help, blacks in particular are sick and tired of being taken for granted as the most reliable democratic voters, with very little to show for that loyalty.

[DuctapeFatwa]

27. I think the political gap between Estrada, etc and Dem congresstrons

is perceived more readily and as a wider gap than it is outside of affluent voting class circles.

Thus a vote against someone who is a member of a minority group is not going to be perceived as based on the nominee's political persuasion, because both congresstrons and nominee are both such light-years away from regular people.

[E_Zapata]

28. Well, I would press them as follows:

Do they have a problem with people ascending to power based on being White? Then why are they qualified because they are black or brown?

Are they seeking equality? Or are they seeking advantage?

The filibusters in the senate have been more than justified based on what those nominees were about. It had nothing to do with skin color.

I -- a white person -- am very disappointed with people of color not really looking beneath skin color on occasion.

I mean: How many of those same dems in the plant go to bat for Condi and Powell? Are they thinking condi and powell are heros? they are the enemy; I don't care what color condi and powell are.