Speaking of "Free Tibet"

[Superfly]

I have to ask, and don't jump in my shit for doing so...why?

Now, bear with me, here. Since the dawn of time, cultures, nation states, and entire peoples have been conquered and assimilated and/or destroyed. The face of today's human culture is a result of eons of this process.

So, why the outcry over Tibet? In a thousand years won't history look back on them as a conquered people as they do with cultures like Gaul, Persia, etc?

[ixion]

1. Tibet is unique

in that it had the largest compilation of religious literature on the planet. They were a peaceful people enslaved by the Chinese. And it really ticks me off when political leaders use the 'liberation' excuse for countries like Kosovo, Kuwait and Iraq, et. al., all the while quietly ignoring Tibet, who has had it's language outlawed, monks killed, literature burned, religion demonized and the people tortured.

Just my two cents... sorry, but Tibet has always been a sore spot for me.

[Brian Sweat]

2. We live in the here and now.

And right now, the people of Tibet are being oppressed.

[paulk]

3. it's pretty much a moot point anyway

there's not enough of tibet left to "free".

The "free Tibet" movement has put enough pressure on China to make them move towards some concessions vis a vis Tibet. Whether or not they follow through is questionable.

[David__77]

4. Tibet is a province of China. China is a sovereign country.

I part ways with the many political friends on this issue. The Tibetan slavocracy is nothing to yearn for or glorify. The people of Tibet have gone from slavery to an increasingly modern and free existence, and many minority and cultural rights are protected.

China, like many other developing countries, has human rights issues. But things are clearly moving in the right direction. Many lamaists are being used by certain western forces to help split up China and render it weak.

[el_gato]

5. wow

that is rich!

:toast:

you get the prize for the most twisted justification I
have ever heard.

[sangh0]

6. It was quite a performance

I sit and type in awe

[E_Zapata]

12. Wow

Just wow. wow. wow. wow.

I don't think even the Chinese could come up with a spin like tht.

[number six]

9. Don't forget..

Those are the same men responsible fo Tiananmen Square (no, I can never bloody spell it) in power. China will do what it needs to to increase its own power. No more.

[SahaleArm]

17. And so was Tibet...

Until the Chinese decided they'd like to take over. A goverment in exile exists in India under the Dalai Lama: http://www.tibet.com. Many tibetans fled to Nepal and India during the chinese occupation.

[LeahMira]

7. Possibly...

In a thousand years won't history look back on them as a conquered people as they do with cultures like Gaul, Persia, etc?

... and that will be our loss. Why? Because our imaginations will be that much more limited.

[LeftistGorilla]

8. freedom...never will happen...

no matter what my Tibeten friend says (there is always hope)....

China will never let it happen...and the world power doesn't give a shit...

[Muddleoftheroad]

10. Sad

This thread generates nine responses and China continues on its merry way doing whatever it wants. The UN doesn't stop them and the left doesn't care. Only the Palestinians seem to fall on the approved list for official indignation despite decades of Palestinian terror group attacks.

The UN enforces rules and such on a wildly unequal footing and Tibet won't be free till all people in China are equally free. But that day will come.

[Darranar]

15. Sorry to break it to you, but...

we do't give billions of dolalrs in aid to China.

Freeing Tibet isn't yet feasible short of nuclear war. let's solve conflicts we can solve.

[sujan]

16. hahahaha

what are you going to do about it?

Invade china?

[SahaleArm]

18. Remnants of 70's liberalism.

The days of FDR and the new deal are dead. From my vantage point liberalism has been fractured into tiny splinter groups: Palestine/Israel, Greens, Anarchists, etc. Plenty of unproductive slogan-chanting. I'm not sure many of these groups care about anything beyond promoting their cause over all else. The whole idea of greater-good seems to have died, now it's me, me, me. Maybe I'm being too cynical?

[Character Assassin]

20. And you know what? I blame the damn astrologers. Yeah that's right...

Oh, hold one, wrong thread.

[durutti]

11. The Myth of Tibet

Prior to being taken over by the Chinese, Tibet was a backward hellhole.

Tibet was a feudal society that the Dalai Lama ruled over with an iron fist. While most of the population lived in extreme poverty, he lived in a 1000-room, 14-story palace. He also owned slaves.

[Snow]

13. Don't know anything about pre-occupation Tibet, but,

in the late 1800's Korea was said to be run by a corrupt, failing dynasty, backwards and deliberately isolating themselves from the world (firing cannon at American gunships!). Japan was rapidly modernizing, and of course was willing to take on the job of bringing Korea into the modern world. Teddy Roosevelt agreed to that, although in point of fact things had already gone pretty far by then, but Teddy noted the corruption and general incompetence of the Yi Dynasty in Korea (who by that time were the longest ruling dynasty of a country, ever). Furthermore the Queen, who wasn't really supposed to be ruling or anything, had the temerity to make overtures to China and then to Russia to try to fend off the Japanese takeover. The US couldn't have that. Fortunately the Queen bumped into some swords and that took care of that problem.

Yes, it was a feudal country with an aristocratic class who could be pretty greedy and heavy-handed at times. The monarchy screwed up from time to time, bickered amongst themselves (sometime the bickering included poisons), and could have generally done better. There were even people who bore a distinct resemblance to slaves. And Korea had very little interest in outside trade agreements, traffic with the west, etc - and who can blame them, seeing how the rest of Asia was being treated? So, Japan solved that problem for us. Backward isolated nation; let's bring 'em into the real world. Assassinate the one strong monarch, isolate and finally depose her husband, the king, replace him with his (probably mentally retarded) son and label him the "Emperor of Korea". Eventually depose him as well, bring all his relatives over to Japan (with the exception of the Queen's nephew, who died as a freedom fighter) and make them so Japanese that the Koreans reject them. And there you are. And stay there for 50 years, forcing the Japanese culture, language, names, onto Koreans, drafting the men into the army and the women into army prostitution.

In short, while I know nothing about pre-occupation Tibet, even if they were as you say, they should be left to their own devices. Completely.

[SahaleArm]

19. Source?

If you wish to demagogue for the Chinese government, try being more subtle.

[ShaneGR]

14. Screw Tibet, I'm busy trying to free America

Seriously,

I feel bad for those Tibetans, but its pretty far off my radar right now.