Nightline: U.S. health care system 37th in the world

[janekat]

http://abcnews.go.com/Sections/Nightline/

Yet would it surprise you to find that a study by the World Health Organization ranked the overall performance of the U.S. health care system 37th in the world? It surprised us. And so we asked Nightline correspondent Dave Marash to take a look.

When comparing the U.S. system to others in the world, one important factor is that virtually every "first world" country, save the U.S., guarantees all citizens health care. Take our neighbors to the North for example. Every Canadian is guaranteed health care coverage, no matter their income or ability to pay. Dave Marash compares the experience of patients in both the U.S. and Canada and finds the experiences are drastically different — with advantages and disadvantages in both places.

[ShavedBeard]

1. Call me crazy

but I have no interest in having health care like they do in Canada. No interest at all.

Many Canadian doctors don't like it either and are fleeing south to practice medicine.

[Postman]

2. Back up your statement.....

show me where they are "fleeing south"...give me some links so I can read what you allege.

[tom_paine]

4. Oh, I'll bet you'll be hearing back from Mr. Fair and Balanced REAL SOON

LOL :crazy: :silly:

Sure we will, and with plenty of links to back up his assertions from such credible websites as

www.foxnews.com
www.newsmax.com
www.rushlimbaugh.com

and, of course

www.imabootlickingworshipperoftheBusheviksliketheCommiesIhateworshippedStalin.com

[ShavedBeard]

8. Here is one

Here is one link, from The Legislative Assembly of Ontario

http://www.ontla.on.ca/hansard/committee_debates/36_parl/session1/finance/f009.htm

Here is a snip...


One manifestation of morale problems is the rising outmigration of physicians from Canada and Ontario. Since 1988 the number of Canadian doctors leaving for the United States and receiving permanent resident status has been on the rise, having increased by a total of 245%, or by 28% per year on average.

Snip...

With increasing frequency, Ontario residents are experiencing difficulties in access due to hospital downsizing, lengthening waiting lists and communities losing physicians. In addition, physicians and their patients are finding it more and more difficult accessing new health care technologies. There are emerging quality problems and concerns.



Gynaecology and anaesthesia specialists are leaving at the fastest pace.

[Spazito]

15. Here is one for you, instead of picking one small part of Hansert...

try reading the Romanow report, it is the REAL deal. It shows that our system isn't perfect but it is worth keeping.

Link to the report:

http://www.mapleleafweb.com/features/medicare/romanow/part_1/

[Minstrel Boy]

31. Is it surprising that some Canadian physicians

chaffe under government regulation? I'd rather have the regulations than happy-as-larks mercenary MDs.

I'll take a little grumbling, and the departure of some replaceable professionals, as a small price to pay for a health-care system which strives to provide universal access.

And is it surprising that the quote you provided supports the position of the most radically-right provincial government in recent Canadian history? (Thankfully, just tossed from office.)

I would rather be sick here than healthy anywhere else.

[Postman]

3. I suggest you do some research.......

http://stars.csg.org/spectrum/2002/Winter/wi02spec_35.pdf

[Name removed]

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[scisyhp]

6. You are crazy.

Well, you asked for it.

[Clete]

7. Calling you crazy here.

That old piece of propaganda has been out there for years. Not one word of it is true. Canadian doctors are part of the system. They barter with the government for fair fees. Don't spread any of that disinformation here. I happen to know too many Canadians and health care professionals personally to know that it isn't true.

[ShavedBeard]

10. Or you saying

that the Legislative Assembly of Ontario are a bunch of liars spreading anti-canadian health care propoganda?

[Clete]

20. Here's the truth. Read it and then spew.

A link for Health Canada

http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/english/care/index.html

[ShavedBeard]

23. And where

in that is information contained to disprove my claim that doctors are leaving Canada to practice in America?

[Clete]

26. There isn't any information anywhere to prove it.

eom.

[Postman]

27. How do you explain this? ...from your link above.

The Ontario health insurance plan, OHIP, provided by the government of Ontario and indeed other government sponsored health insurance plans in other jurisdictions across Canada, represent the most popular entitlement programs to the citizens of Canada and Ontario. These programs, in many cases the envy of the world and certainly far superior to those offered in the United States.

[Spazito]

34. ROFL!

The Legislative Assembly of Ontario spreading propaganda, naaaaaaa, couldn't be, could it?

[glarius]

52. The right wing Ontario gov't tried to change our system to the private

system and in the process we ended up with problems we didn't need...We have thrown them out in the recent election and with the Romanow Report being implemented, we should be getting back some of the nurses they let go...not to mention hospitals they closed....Our system was excellent until the government decided they were going to save money and used our health care as the vehicle....Our new Liberal provincial government will rectify the problems, hopefully....Even with the problems our universal system is far superior to what you have in the States...Your people deserve much better than what they are getting.....

P.S....I have had problems with my computer so didn't see this till today, that's why I'm late in posting here....

[jonnyblitz]

12. canadian docters? umm..what about the Canadian patients.

All my Canadian friends love it but they aren't doctors...I suppose if you are only in it for money then perhaps it would suck but some people have other motives for taking care of people besides the profit motive.

[Name removed]

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[Bandit]

19. It is money that is the difference not quality of health care

Doctors in the US make much much more than doctors in Canada so I can see a financial incentive but it isn't because they don't like the quality of health care given. Many people in my home town go to Canada to get their teeth worked on because it costs about a quarter of what it costs in the US and the quality of work is as good or better. They do extend their service to Americans but on a first come first served basis.

[Clete]

44. Also, a good portion of those high fees American

doctors get go to pay for mal-practice insurance.

[Name removed]

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[Caution]

25. Hmm according to this article

While canada does have a low rate of doctors per 1000 people, it is not significantly lower than that of the United States. Doesn't seem to support that crock of shit argument that the US health care industry has been touting about them "fleeing south"


http://chealth.canoe.ca/health_news_detail.asp?channel_id=131&news_id=8699

Additionally, you'll find that most doctors HERE bitch and moan constantly about health care in this country, particularly about the insurance industry...you knwo the group that started the myth about the canadian health care system.

I suggest you do the following, take a trip to canada (they make great freedom fries up there), you may want to stay away from Quebec though because they mostly speak Freedom-Canadian. When you get up there aska few canadians how they feel about their health care system. Ask them if they would like the US system instead.

While you are up there, notice how there isn't an armed militia man every five feet (what we call "cops" here). Notice the lack of crime. Notice the clean city streets, notice the lack of homeless people begging for food and notice the gay couple walking along hand-in-hand after having gotten married.

Damn them canadians.

[janekat]

33. Well ask anyone who can't get health insurance about it - I've been

turned down twice - finally got it - but I'm paying $500/mth. I have to borrow money from my parents for the first time in about 15 years. I would gladly take Canadian health care and so would a lot of other people.

[Spazito]

37. Geez, I didn't realize it was that high in the states...

I pay 670.00 a year for mine.

[Clete]

45. And the worst part is that health care is hard to find

for that $500 a month because most doctors don't want to accept the HMOs anymore.

[jab105]

50. Haa haa!!

Oh my gosh!! I'm jealous!!

[OKNancy]

38. You must be young

It's $880.00 per month for my husband and I.

[Spazito]

40. No, not that young, in age, 50, but in spirit, ageless! lol

*

[E_Zapata]

57. You OBVIOUSLY have health care or you wouldn't say that!

I am sorry, but your lack of compassion absolutely irks me.]

Well, guess what...those in Canada who are unhappy with their healthcare and can afford it, can opt for something 'better.' And that won't change here in the US even with national healthcare. So, relax. The only difference is that people like me will actually get a checkup now again and not have to watch a troublesome area on the skin grow over the last two years, wondering if it's what I think it is......do I have 2 years or 4 years to live. Or am in that deadly 6 months max. Or is it nothing.

You have no idea the TERROR that envelopes a person in my position. No idea, or you wouldn't make such cold statements.

[UrbScotty]

9. You mean to tell me...

We have better healthcare than over 150 other countries??

:wow:

[ShavedBeard]

11. Not what I said

I said I do not want a system based on, nor resembling Canadas.

[Clete]

16. So what do you want, one that resembles Somalia?

You may get your wish because that is where we are heading.

[ShavedBeard]

22. If I want to see a doctor

i can see one tomorrow, even today if I want. In Canada, that is not the case.

It is very common for people to wait months, and even over a year for very routine elements of health care. Want a pap smear today in America, you can get one. Want one in Canada, see you in 6 months.

[Caution]

28. facts my friend, facts

if you are going to post garbage like this attempt at the very least to back it up with facts. This is patently absurd.

Oh btw try to get in to get a pap smear without health insurance.

Try to get into the emergency room with no insurance.

By the way, when was the last tme you scheduled a physical in this country? The waiting list in the good ol US of A is about hmmm...surprise surprise 6 months.

[Clete]

49. Psst. A word about Canadian Health Care system disinformation.

The "facts" stated above are common propaganda spread by our for profit health care industry. Agents are hired by a PR firm, who have been hired by oh let's say Tenant. The purpose is to spread disinformation on the internet and anywhere else they can get their tentacles into, by pretending to be everyday joe sixpack with some alarming news. The "facts" haven't changed since Hillary's plan. They are no more true today than they were then.

[Bandit]

29. That is blatantly untrue

You obviously don't know what you are talking about. In Whitehorse alone there are more Health Clinics than either Churches or Bars.

[Liberal Veteran]

30. LOL....what do you suppose Canadians do when they are sick?

Wait for six months?

[janekat]

35. I have to wait 1-2 months for a Dr's appt here (Florida)

n/t

[Spazito]

39. As a Canadian, I CAN refute that, I can see my doctor very quickly...

there has NEVER been a problem for me. Have gotten in the same day I called if it was necessary.

[ironflange]

43. Hi. I'm a Canadian waiting for surgery

I've been waiting for this procedure for about 5 months now, and I go in next month. However, it's a very minor procedure (herniated umbilicus), so the wait hasn't bothered me. I accept this sort of delay for minor procedures as part of free health care. More serious problems are done much more quickly. For example, my appendectomy some years ago was done rather less than 5 months after the diagnosis. One thing to remember is that my op mext month will only cost however much it is to park the car for the day.

As for pap tests, those can be done during regular doctor's appointments, which we can book a week or two in advance. Where'd this 6 month jazz come from? This does not make my wife enjoy them more fully, though :) . Minor emergencies can be taken care of at one of many walk-in clinics, though you'd better be prepared to wait for as long as 1 1/2 hours. Gasp! Well, they are free, too, so whaddaya expect.

I know of no one here, even professed right-wingers, who have any real complaint with the system here.

[radwriter0555]

48. LOL A pap smear in 6 months? It's not an emergency procedure. You BOOK

it six months ahead of time.

It's an ANNUAL event.

hell, I book mine A YEAR before I need it, when I GET one for that year!

lol

Good try though.

[glarius]

55. Untrue!!! My husband has called his doctor for an unscheduled visit

many times...just a week ago in fact and got it in 2 days....When anything is serious it is looked after immediately....Only elective surgeries or non life threatening have waiting periods....Of course you can always find someone who has fallen between the cracks, in a big country...but in general we are satisfied with things....You sound like one of the right wingnuts who get on CNN etc. every time your country is talking about universal health care and they try to frighten Americans into thinking they will be going down a slippery path to hell...They cite all kinds of misinformation....

[Liberal Veteran]

17. And what would you propose to cover the 43 million without health care?

Just wondering.

[wyldwolf]

14. Am I missing something at that link?

I can't seem to find the text you quoted.

Would be interested in reading it.

[sociopath]

24. 01510774

Me too. Can't find it at NIghtline or the WHO's website.

[janekat]

41. It was in my daily e-mail alert that I was sent from Nightline...

Hopefully - they'll have it up on their site tonight.

Nightline Daily E-Mail
October 23, 2003

TONIGHT'S SUBJECT: We continue our week-long look at the national health care crisis that leaves millions without insurance coverage and puts millions more in financial jeopardy. Tonight we take stock of the U.S. health care system in general. Many praise the system as the best in the world. If you are sick and in need of cutting edge treatment, there is no country in the world where you'd rather be. But does it surprise you to learn that a World Health Organization study ranked health care systems and concluded that the U.S. is not #1. Not even close.

The U.S. health care system is the best in the world. Right? That's what so many of us believe — what so many politicians say. And as we hear about wealthy or famous people from other countries flying here for cutting-edge treatments often discovered and developed here, and simply not available anywhere else in the world, that statement seems fundamentally sound.

But if you look at the health care system overall, is the U.S. system still the best? It is a system that leaves more than 40 million Americans without health insurance. Millions more struggle financially with the meager coverage they have. The best health care is available — but often only to those who can afford to get it.

When people lack insurance coverage, they often avoid getting health care until their conditions worsen — perhaps until it's too late. It is that situation that allows the U.S. system to come up short in international comparisons. For instance, infant mortality can be compared country to country. So can life expectancy. And the U.S. does not rank #1 in either.

Yet would it surprise you to find that a study by the World Health Organization ranked the overall performance of the U.S. health care system 37th in the world? It surprised us. And so we asked Nightline correspondent Dave Marash to take a look.

When comparing the U.S. system to others in the world, one important factor is that virtually every "first world" country, save the U.S., guarantees all citizens health care. Take our neighbors to the North for example. Every Canadian is guaranteed health care coverage, no matter their income or ability to pay. Dave Marash compares the experience of patients in both the U.S. and Canada and finds the experiences are drastically different — with advantages and disadvantages in both places.

Finally, Ted Koppel will talk to ABC News Medical Editor Dr. Timothy Johnson. Can some of the Canadian advantages be brought to the U.S.? Or does the Canadian system demand compromises that Americans are unwilling or unable to make?

We hope you'll join us.

Sara Just and the Nightline Staff
Nightline Offices
Washington, D.C.


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[wadestock]

32. It's at least that bad

People here revel over the fact that you can be poor and can walk in and get reams of health care for nothing....that doesn't prove that the system is good....

There used to be a significant technology gap but that is closing and will continue to close over time....

I talk with at least a dozen Canadians and hear very good stories including quadruple bypasses and state of the art stuff...and that is a significant statistical sample to draw some real conclusions....

Our principle problem is in terms of PREVENTATIVE care...which should be there to help obviate the need for 80K jobs later.

[tom_paine]

36. And dropping fast

Like everything in Imperial Amerika, a nation based on privilege and aristocracy (oh, the Founding Fathers must be spinning in their graves), as the insane wealth disparity spirals out of control and the Bushevik Imperial Reign continues (IF it continues), it will only get worse.

Much worse, when the Baby Boomer Retirements hit this country like a Bushevik Space-Based Nuclear Device.

Our great-grandchildren will pine for the day when Amerikan Health Care was as astronomically high as 37th...

[Deja Q]

42. AMERICAN MEDIA said this?!

:wow:

I wonder what's in it for them.

That aside, we need reform - NOW!

[Zero Gravitas]

46. Thats Unpossible

The American way is always the best way. the American way is always, by definition the best way. the godless furrners are always wrong and we are always right. Them Canuks might spend half the money per capita for better care, but its SOCIALIST so it sucks.

USA! USA! USA!

:eyes:

[Clete]

47. Here's a great site that offers hope for

a national health plan in the good ole USA, once we dethrone the corporate theives in Washington.

http://www.pnhp.org/

[ironflange]

51. Our vacation

We spent our summer vacation in Oregon this past summer (from Canada). It was a really really great trip, first Portland, then down the coast, sorry, I'm off topic. While in Portland, we had to take my 12-yr-old daughter to Emergency with severe constipation. :hurts: Can't remember the name of the place, it was a teaching hospital up on top of a hill. The service we got was first-rate, nice place too. Fixed her up nicely, though it took a while. Travel medical insurance paid for the whole thing, but I wonder how much it would have cost had we not had the insurance.

[Clete]

54. In Corvallis, Oregon, I had to go to intensive care

a notch away from emergency, and I paid $40 for an office visit, where I was sent away with a prescription, but this was ten years ago. Three weeks later, still ailing, I went to emergency in Arcata, California and by the time I was done it was $320 and still no cure. I had an infection I couldn't shake. I finally started loading up on Echinacea from the health food store. In one month a cure and it cost $10.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

53. yup that # feels about right

[Malva Zebrina]

56. I mentioned this to a nice woman I met today

she thought about that for a moment because she was surprised--I added that virtually no country in the world desires to imitate the US approach to health care for it's citizens and it's treatment of the poor when it comes to health care. Finally, she came up with a reply and that was that health care in Canada and Britain is not that great--and that people in Britain have to wait six or more weeks for surgery and then, if it is a complicated case, they have to go to Germany for the operation! She appeared to be a person who had the bucks to pay for heart replacement if necessary--coming from the high rent district of Camden, Maine. I continued on in a nice calm voice, telling her about Clinton's ability to ease the suffering of AIDS victims in Africe with his superb abilities to broker a deal with generic drug companies who are willing to manufacture and sell the necessary medications at an affordable price and stressed how the poorer people in the US are getting the shaft in any way possible, citing the wishes of the Republicans to privatize Medicare and their rather stupid prescription drug proposals--she agreed that something needed to be done about the paucity of health care in this country for those who cannot afford the current high costs, not being that willing to put the poor people "out on the ice" so to speak.

Most of the time, I have faith in human beings and their capacity for compassion and willingness to help others. What cause them to go off that track and support an idiot that is full of violence and war, terror, attack, invasion, greed and is a souless empty shell, is beyond my abilities to analyse. There must be some reason why Bush has convinced so many to lose their souls, their sense of beauty, and their sense of the right thing to do.