Need ammo against the Republican mantra on the economy

[NewJeffCT]

Hi, I am new here and got pointed here by the main guy at the o’reilly sucks website...

I need some ammunition to fire back against the Republican mantra on the economy. Normally, I did not pay too much attention when I hear the normal right wingers in the media and my dedicated Republican co-workers repeat their mantra on the country's current economic problems, but I got concerned the other day when I heard a fairly open-minded and moderate friend of mine repeat a lot of these same things – he does not have cable TV and does not listen to talk radio, so he is not getting his mind warped by the Republican media conglomerate on TV and radio. But, he's getting the message somehow...

This is how the mantra usually goes:
1) the economy is hung over from the excesses of the Clinton years.
2) all of the profits of the 90s were paper profits and not real
3) talk about the decade of greed, it was really the 90s and not the 80s.
4) the job losses are also the result of the excesses of the Clinton years.

I can't tell you how many times I've heard that from different sources.

What can I fire back at them in similar bullet points? The Bush steel tariff disaster that caused 200,000 job losses (I think) just does not do it in New England, as that more directly affects the Midwest. (yes, I know it has an effect on the whole country, but not here directly)

Explaining that in the 90s, opening up 401Ks to the market and the masses enabled a lot of people to make money, while the 80s was just limited to executives getting huge bonuses while closing factories and laying off thousands is a bit more than the average person with a short memory can handle.

Thanks!

[papau]

1. Krugman has a good col today that may help

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/10/24/opinion/24KRUG.html

Too Low a Bar By PAUL KRUGMAN Published: October 24, 2003

John Snow, the Treasury secretary, told The Times of London on Monday that he expected the U.S. economy to add two million jobs before the next election — that is, almost 200,000 per month. His forecast was higher than those of most independent analysts; nothing in the data suggests that jobs are being created at that rate. (New claims for unemployment insurance are running at slightly less than 400,000 a week, the number that corresponds to zero job growth. If jobs were being created as rapidly as Mr. Snow forecasts, the new claims number would be closer to 300,000.)

Still, Mr. Snow may get lucky, and the job market may pick up. But his prediction was a huge climb-down from administration predictions earlier this year, when the White House insisted that it expected the economy to add more than five million jobs by next November.

And even if Mr. Snow's forecast comes true, that won't vindicate the administration's economic policy. In fact, while private analysts are criticizing Mr. Snow for being overly optimistic, I think the stronger criticism is that he's trying to lower the bar: to define as success a performance that, even if it materializes, should really be considered a dismal failure.

Bear in mind that the payroll employment figure right now is down 2.6 million compared with what it was when George W. Bush took office. So Mr. Snow is predicting that his boss will be the first occupant of the White House since Herbert Hoover to end a term with fewer jobs available than when he started. This is what he calls success? <snip>

As to "1) the economy is hung over from the excesses of the Clinton years.
2) all of the profits of the 90s were paper profits and not real
3) talk about the decade of greed, it was really the 90s and not the 80s.
4) the job losses are also the result of the excesses of the Clinton years." ----

WHAT EXCESSES? - the dot.com bubble was a blip on the over all economy - take it out - all of it - and it is still the greates econ growth over 8 years in history.

It is a bit like saying Bush's foriegn policy disasters have been cause by a blow job and the lack of respect it cause around the world - only there is proof that it caused NO LACK OF RESPECT AROUND THE WORLD.

The GOP now lies all the time - bullet points may do you no good in your arguement with someone who chooses to not think and find out facts for themselves - like someone in the US Media.

[MGKrebs]

2. I've basically given up.

If they believe that BS, they are operating on faith, not logic, and logical arguments won't persuade them.

At this point, my shpiel consists of telling people that these guys in charge are NOT conservatives. They are so far beyond conservative that I am looking for a less loaded word than fascism to use.

In any case, what is conservative about:
- huge deficits?
- nation building?
- increased beauracracy?
- government intervention in private lives?
- no bid, open ended contracts to connected companies?
- admin. officials disclosing covert operatives?