Teachers could be paid 100000 dollars

[La_Serpiente]

In an effort to actually show appreciation for teachers, the governor of Minnesota might pay teachers 100,000 dollars for their jobs. HOwever, they have to get rid of their union status.

This would be awesome and not awesome. In Japan, they pay their teachers 100,000 dollars and show them as much respect as they would toward Engineers and Doctors.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,101208,00.html

[tritsofme]

1. Around where I

live, if a teacher has a masters and 10 years or so in the district it is not uncommon for them to be paid $100,000 a year. I believe that they start out somewhere around $45,000.

[Pavlovs DiOgie]

5. Where do you live?

I'd love to know where teachers are starting out at $45k and can earn $100k.

[Name removed]

8. Deleted message

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[dsc]

9. It would be informative if you posted just where

and how wealthy that town is. That is one of the wealthiest suburbs of Chicago and those salaries are probably around the median income in that city.

[tritsofme]

10. Probably not one of the wealthiest

in Chicago area, just lots of car dealerships and a huge shopping mall that rakes in the sales tax.

In the richest suburbs teachers are usually paid much less because it is far more likely that those children will attend private schools.

[alcuno]

11. My guess is that those are teachers w/ coaching positions or

additional responsibilities; the ones at the very top. Also, they have a Masters plus 45 hours or a doctorate. I'm in a suburban Chicago elementary district that tops out at $82,000 with a Masters plus 10 hours. Our high school district tops out at about $95,000 but they can earn more through coaching or teaching an additional class.

[cosmicdot]

12. and, they publish this information?

glad they didn't do that when I taught school in Virginia ... it was bad enough starting after earning a college degree at $7100 ... it only increased $3K in 6 years ...

good to see a few teachers earning appropriate pay

leave it some whacko conservatives to spend time doing this - of course, they don't take everything into consideration

It's not an easy job.

[alcuno]

14. I'm on the list and it's put on the internet every year.

It's public information. I know that our district publishes our salaries in the local papers.

[JohnKleeb]

27. cosmic I know you are a teacher, but in VA

Just curious but where and what kind of classes. It sure as hell isnt a easy job. Would I take the pay increase or lose my union status hmmmmmmmmm thats tough for some people, but I would prefer union status.

[Pavlovs DiOgie]

32. Thanks for the info!

I teach in Las Vegas, and our salaries don't come anywhere near those. Of course, the cost of living is fairly reasonable, but speaking as the main breadwinner of my family, and having a Masters degree, it's pretty frustrating to not be able to even afford a small vacation during my summer break.

[laura888]

2. Minnesota is always so progressive!

Teachers have an awesome responsibility but aren't shown the monetary and other respect that should come with it.

I say pay them all as well as engineers!

What is more important - building bridges, or building minds?

[Loyal]

43. thanks for trivializing engineering

:eyes:

[wuushew]

3. This is idiotic

If the extra salary is simply the alledged cost of union membership and benefits then the state really isn't saving anything. This is a pointless argument even without bringing the positive effects that unionized teachers have on the education system.

[roguevalley]

4. This sounds like not only union busting but an attempt to end

tenure. I've heard this before. It sounds better
than it is. Frankly, they never paid us enough
to do what we did. I'm glad I no longer am part
of my system, which has gone through the floor
with poor admin and No Kid Left Behind.

Teachers deserve respect, good pay and support.
Kids deserve a sound education. The future
depends upon it. Minnesota has a great retirement
for their teachers. I hope they keep their unions.
No one will protect you if they decide to dump
you. The unions keep some districts alive.

RV, speaking from personal experience.

[Bozita]

17. They want to strip tenure, health care, and the grievance proceedure

They want back everything written into those master agreements.

Think Wal-Mart. Apply that business model to the schools.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

40. When the union is gone, the 100k salaries will be gone too

If people fall for this, they deserve what they get. What a scam.

[pasadenaboy]

6. I know this goes against conventional wisdom,

but most teachers I know make a pretty good salary (50K+) and a lot of time off. That might just be southern california, but they don't seem to do too bad here.

[Yupster]

16. also

tremendous benefits and the most wondrificous retirement plan in the world, except professors who have an even better choice.

[Robb]

30. You better believe it does...

It might indeed just be southern CA. In rural CO we have no teachers in our county that make more than 40K, this includes administrators.

Want to start out? Think about starting a full-time job for 26K, driving the bus one day a week....

[LWolf]

35. Hey pasadena boy, lets talk about that.

Since I'm a teacher in Southern California.

I make a pretty good salary. I have 20 years in my district, plenty of units beyond the original california clear credential, and some extra professional certifications. I haven't quite reached 50,000.

And $50,000 doesn't go far if you want to buy a house in so cal.

My little house, which is what my salary affords me, is 800 square feet. It was built around 1950, is on a tiny little industrial zoned lot in what the middle class would consider a "bad" neighborhood.

All that time off? Please. While school is in session, I do a minimum of 70 hours a week. Often more. It leaves little time for things like housework, accounting, yardwork, vehicle maintenance, medical appointments, etc., let alone actually having a life.

All that summer time off? Let's see. This summer, I spent a week packing and moving out of my classroom. Another week moving back in and unpacking. Another week writing curriculum and documenting plans for the year. All of that was unpaid, thank you. And then two more weeks of all day, every day meetings. Those were paid, but not at the daily rate of my salary; they were paid hourly as "extra duty." That would be 5 weeks of work during my long vacation.

I then spent another 4 weeks repairing my roof, fence, and bathroom, which I didn't find time to do during the work year, with those long 70-80 hour weeks. And doing a 200,000 mile check-up maintenance on my car, seeing my dentist, and all of the other routine business items I'd put off.

Then I took a whole week and went to visit my mother. A whole week. And back to work.

I'm not doing too bad. But it could be a hell of a lot better.

[Davis_X_Machina]

7. I'll take the respect, and you can keep the money.

I can't be bought.

[alcuno]

13. It's tied to test scores.

That's what the article says; the bonuses kick in when there is a rise in test scores.

[JackSwift]

15. Yeah, Minnesota might pay

teachers 100,000 dollars if they disbanded their union, but then again, they might pay them 25,000.

The teachers pay the entire cost of the union out of their own paychecks. It doesn't cost the state a dime. But they do make sure that teachers aren't treated poorly and subject to stupid reassignments designed only to break the union. The only reason teachers have any respect at all is because they will strike if they don't get it. When the union is gone, the pay and benefits will go down and public education will suffer because Republicans want to destroy public education because they hate the taxes.

How about this? Since the governor of Minnesota says they have enough money to pay all teachers a minimum of 100,000, why doesn't the union demand that they pay it, and then the union will talk about specific concessions that the Repukicans think are so important.

[quaker bill]

18. Seems I need to be a teacher in Illinois

I live in Fla. No teacher makes anywhere near that kind of money here. You have to be a doctor, lawyer, or engineer to make that kind of money here.

There is always some kind of attempt to de-unionize teachers. Here it is vouchers to private schools.

[Dogmudgeon]

19. It's another Bum Fight

And I mean no disrespect to those honest people who are unemployed, homeless, and alcohol-addicted.

The Republican/Conservatives love these kinds of phony fights. They know they can't win them, so they let the Commentariat talk it down, then blame the eeevil Libbruls (and Union Bosses) for badmouthing every constructive proposal they make, dagnab it!

How 'bout this one:

I'll support a constitutional amendment to prohibit all abortions, BUT all women who have children would be guaranteed a $100,000 per child per year National Motherhood Protection Act stipend.

Same thing.

--bkl

[sleipnir]

20. In a related story, ANYONE could be paid 100,000

Teachers making 100,000?? Get real, unless you have a PHD and are working at a high level college doing research, they don't deserve it. I may get flamed to high heaven, but the reason teachers aren't paid as well as they "probably" should be, it's an easy profession to get into with a reasonable salary. I'm not saying it's a easy job (it's not). But, all you need is an undergrad degree with a teaching certificate. I knew probably 40 or 50 secondary ed majors when I was in college at a very respectable midwest university and I'd say only 30% were qualified or educated enough to teach. Most of them just got into it, because, well, it was easy. No multi-semester, thousands of hours, research projects. No tough elimination weed-out after sophomore year. No classes that required incredible amounts of high end knowledge or study. No working for hundreds of hours a semester, year after year in an art or science lab. True, they had to "student" teach, but it was glorified substitute teaching, something anyone could do.

In short, the secondary/primary teaching is too easy to get into and too many idiots make it. The good ones are worth it and they do make a difference in a kid's life, but the majority are not worth the paper they're paid. Sad but true, that's why most of the educated, intelligent teachers go on to get a masters and be a principle, or go on and get a PHD and teach at University level.

Sure, who wouldn't want to get paid that much, but if they do, damn it, I want stricter education standards, like a Masters minimum w/specialization in field, ie botany, romantic lit, non-linear physics, for all secondary ed. It's a great idea and would dramatically increase our education potential. Imagine that your kid is actually being taught about Physics from someone who has studied it for 7 years of their life, and not have just taken 3 or 4 classes in undergrad to satisfy a certificate requirement.

In the end, most teachers aren't worth that much and if I'm going to pay that much as a taxpayer, I want some seriously qualified educators.

Flame away...

[yankeedem]

21. No flames

But the number of teachers making $100k is probably about .00001% nationwide (anyone with a real stat please post). If you were that high in your profession, wouldn't you deserve that money? These numbers ($100k) are meant to anger only, they are always presented to the reader without perspective.

For example, the median household income in my town (hardly opulent) in suburban NYC is about $73k. Should a educator of high school, with advanced degrees and 30 years experience make $100k? I wouldn't begrudge them that.

The freeper anti-union mentality is always "they making $100k and they have all the dang summer off". If it is so damn easy to get these degrees and teach, then everyone would be doing it then, wouldn't they?

Are teachers overpaid? Not really, I think many other professions are underpaid. Don't be mad at teachers because they have real unions that fight for their jobs.

If people want to target a waste of taxpayer money, how about the police. We have about double the amount of officers that a town with this population with this demographic needs. But I guess it is easier to sell fear than education.

[sleipnir]

22. No, no begrudging them

I'm responding to the Min. gov wanting to pay ALL teachers (at least that's were the FOX article leads you to believe) $100,000, if they give up unions. I feel that 25% of today's secondary ed teachers don't deserve that amount, most don't deserve half that, even if they did give up the union. Even if the union isn't an issue, it's stupid to blanket pay teachers that much in America, until we reform the process by which we select those who educate our young.

If a teacher is already making 100k in some other city, they must be doing something right or have the education to back up their asking price.

[Loyal]

44. Oh you're going after cops now, too.

What the hell do cops have to do with this discussion? You just hate authority.

[Yupster]

23. No master's in eductaion though

When I taught I got a master's in "Curriculum and Insruction" so I could get that extra step on the salary schedule.

It was the most worthless educational experience I ever suffered through. My wife did the same thing.

I would not pay extra for education majors. In my limited experience, the courswork is a joke. The teachers are just there for the stipend, and the professors know that.

Also a concern is that the students going into education as a major are below average students as measured by SAT scores.

I was amazed when I was getting my degree at the morons that sat with me in the education classes. No offense (too late for that), but the majotity of the moronic ones were football players who took education as a major because if you don't make the pros, yo can always teach and coach.

When I started teaching, I met this same group in the classrooms. I was a history teacher, and unfortunately so were they. At most points during the nine years I taught, the majority of my department were football coaches. Not to say that meant they were bad teachers, but they were hired to coach football, and they knew it.

This is in Texas. I know football isn't as big a deal everywhere.

[creativelcro]

26. JESUS CHRIST!

They get this much in Massachusetts already and they are still unionized, and they are still bitching about wanting higher salaries... -C

[Cheswick2.0]

29. why do people flame and then accuse others of it before they even answer?

you are the one flaming here Skippy.

Any teachers making $50.00 to $100.000 per year have a masters degree plus another 20 credits and have been teaching for 25 or more years. What should they be making, the same as all the highschool graduates in town?

PS... just because someone is an expert in some field doesn't mean they know shit about teaching it. Some of the worst teachers I ever had were brilliant in the subject area they were "teaching".

[LWolf]

34. Ok, you asked for it, so here it comes:

:grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr::grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr:

but the reason teachers aren't paid as well as they "probably" should be, it's an easy profession to get into with a reasonable salary. I'm not saying it's a easy job (it's not). But, all you need is an undergrad degree with a teaching certificate.

Are you a teacher? I'm guessing not. You wouldn't say this kind of puke if you were. Let's talk "easy."

It took me 12 years to finish community college, because I was raising a family and working. It wouldn't have mattered if I'd jumped into college straight out of high school, I still would have been responsible for supporting myself and paying my way by myself, with no family support.

It took me $14,000 in student loans to finish the BA and the extra 30 units necessary. That's just tuition, not books. I was still working to keep a roof over my head and raising my kids.

Before I could get my credential, I had to do student teaching. It couldn't be done at night, so I had to quit the job that supported us. I cashed in 12 years worth of retirement to pay the bills and buy medical insurance. Since I was a public school employee, I don't pay into or get social security. So when I started my job in the classroom at the age of 35, I was starting all over. I'll finish paying off the student loans next year.

And it was not "glorified substitute teaching." A substitute teacher shows up a few minutes before school starts, walks through the day, and walks out the door with the kids. No planning, no meetings, no correcting, recording, documenting, observations, evaluations, or anything else that a student teacher does.

I also ponied up for and passed the various Praxis exams and other things my state requires in addition to the BA plus 30.

Then, with all of that certification behind me, all the debt, a family support, and no job, I went job hunting. I wasn't hired until the day before school started; a summer of fear and penny pinching to see if I'd even be able to get a job.

Since that time, I have completed another 45 units. I've completed two more certifications. And I spend 10 - 15 % of that glorious salary on supplies and materials to do the job.

Meanwhile, my son finished community college. He decided not to go on to a 4 year school; he sees me still paying and not making much, and declines. Instead, he got a job that requires no college. Two years later, he makes almost as much money as I do. With no student loans, and fewer hours.

"Too easy to get into?" Fuck you. And the high-horse you rode in on.

:nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke:

[QuestioningStudent]

39. That's a little off-topic.

Now hear me out for a minute, 'k? I understand the financial difficulties, I understand supporting the family, I really do. But the actual education required for a teaching position doesn't require those things. Those are individual facts of your life that have no bearing on your qualifications for a position, withstanding the fact that they may comment on your level of personal responsibility and ability to deal with stress, etc. There is a difference between your personal difficulties and the qualificatins necessary for the field you entered; the qualifications are usually a standard everyone must meet, while your life experiences are yours alone. Anyone could deal with similiar issues while trying to get into medical school, graduate school (working on that PHD, an' all), law school, et. Or, for that matter, someone could deal with the issues you cited without going to school at all. Those financial stresses, and time management issues you mention just don't have bearing on your job qualifications. Are they important to you? Yeah. Should they be? Of course. Should you be paid more for them? 'Fraid not. That's not a personal slam, but it is cold reality.

[LWolf]

41. The key word here is "easy."

It's not "easy" to get the credential or the job. It's not "easy" to do the job. And I'll stand by what I said.

Anyone who hasn't taken a look at the number of hoops a candidate for a teaching credential has to jump through needs to look a little more closely before they decide what is "easy." Regardless of whether you have someone paying your way through school or not.

Again...someone can make almost as much money as I do after 2 years on the job with no college. No hoops. No investment of all of that supposedly abundant income on supplies and materials. No student loans. And working fewer hours. And no constant teacher-bashing from the general public.

The actual education required to get the job in my state is:

BA plus 30 units; a few classes shy of the Masters.

Student teaching... which for me was 5 months of full time, unpaid work. With regular assignments and evaluations by the supervisor, as well as the master teacher.

The MSAT exams...multiple choice and multiple essays on every subject to demonstrate subject matter competency in every subject a multiple-subject credential is authorized to teach.

More exams have been added since I got my credential. And...continuous professional development, including post-graduate classes, to renew it every five years. All to be done on my "extra" time, with all of that money I'm earning.

What about this process do you see to be "easy?"

[QuestioningStudent]

42. Absolutely nothing.

But it's not about the job being easy. It's about the job not requiring as many qualifications as other jobs that pay better. I'm not about to say an education degree is BS, but I WILL say that from everything I know, it is easier to find people who CAN successfully complete, and will successfully complete those qualifications than it is to find, say, a person with PHDs in non-linear mathematics and quantum mechanics. Some skillsets are more in demand than others, can't find an adequate supply of workers, etc., and earn more than others. That's how it works. The skillset necessary to be hired as a teacher--which is different than the skillset to be a GOOD teacher--is not one which is, to our society, worth as much as others. Does that have anything to do with "ease?" No. Never said it did. It's just the way it is.

[Name removed]

45. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LWolf]

46. Which part of my post was about the job, rather

than the process of "qualifying" for it? If it came to the job, it would be amusing to turn a physicist loose in a classroom under the conditions that we do our jobs and watch the ensuing chaos. But I was talking about getting the credential, not what we do after we've got it.

And what education degree are you referring to?

I don't know about every state, but in mine, the BA is a liberal arts degree or a degree in a particular subject; mine is social sciences. The Masters is an ed degree; curriculum and instruction, or administration, or special ed, or some other specialty.

For a multiple subject credential.

A single subject credential requires the BA in the single subject to be taught.

It's probably true that you'll find more people completing teaching credentials than completing PHDs in mathematics or physics...

And I'm sure the PHD in quantum physics is demanding.

It generates some questions:

Is that an outcome of the degree of difficulty, the degree of interest, or the demand for people in those positions?

Does that mean that a quantum physicist could do a better job teaching my 6th grade classroom than I could, overall?

Is the pay for the investment of $$, time and effort to get the degree, or for the value of the work done?

What does this say about the way our society values what I do?

Do you think 5-6 years of education/training is enough to be a teacher, or do you think there should be more?

Do you think people who did not spend the 5-6 years and $$$$$$ getting the credential ought to make as much or more as I do?

[Nikia]

49. Depends on the state

In your state, it sounds like you basically do have a graduate degree in addition to your BA. In some states, students can take the education classes as part of their degree and some schools allow it as part of the student's major. For example, a son of my parents' best friend majored in math education and had to take fewer math classes than a regular math major. At my college, students had to take a full major in their subject and minor in education and many student taught after completing all the BA requirements because my college charged much less for student teaching completed after the degree rather than tuition. It does depend on the state and sometimes the school. I think that your state's requirements are appropriate while requirements allowing a subject/education major are inappropriate and do not provide enough advanced course work in a subject. I think that currently new college graduates are struggling to find good jobs after college and may be resentful of teachers with decent starting salaries if they live in a state where the education degree is part of the BA. Unfortunately, many jobs requiring a 4 year degree (or more) pay less than some jobs requiring an associate's, a certificate, or even less. My friend in the printing industry which hires people with on the job experience as a few places offer or a one course tech program said that he has worked with many people with a bachelor's degree who could not find jobs that paid more. They spent the time and effort to get a degree but discovered that they could make $30,000-$40,000 in an industry that did not require a degree when jobs related more to their degree were paying around $25,000. I think the whole job market is messed up that way, but it's all about demand and getting people to work for as little as possible.

[Yupster]

47. I have a master's in education

In my individual circumstance, I can say that I found the degree "easy" to get.

School takes lots of time, lots of effort and lots of knowledge.

To get that degree took me lots of time.

[Nikia]

37. I agree

You should have met the teachers at my high school. Of course, seven years ago they were starting at $18,000 so probably the better ones went elsewhere. Our English teacher bragged about getting an 18 on the ACT by guessing. As a high school sophomore, I had a better understanding of biology than the biology teacher. I had a hard time in college freshman calculus even though I got all As in high school math and got a high SAT score. The four other A level students, who also all got C's, that were in that advanced math class that took college calculus came back and complained to the teacher that he didn't give us sufficient preparation. His response was that he failed college calculus the first two times so we did relatively well.
Anyway, I've read the book "Conspiracy of Ignorance" by Martin Gross. He recommends that potential teachers be required to major in a liberal art or science, taking no education courses in undergrad, and then go through a full time one year education certificate. Then they'd be expectde to pass a test equivalent to the bar exam for law, not a test written at the 10th grade level. He states that then teachers will be more knowledgagble and qualified to teach and will be able to justify high salaries. I agree. This will also facilitate entry into teaching by people that discovered that their other chosen career was not worthwhile and are interested in going into teaching after working in another field for a few years.
As things are now, I think that teaching is a relatively easy career to get into, especially in a poor economy. There are many advertised jobs requiring a bachelor's degree (as stated in the ad) that pay less than teaching and that do not provide good benefits or guarenteed raises. In a poor economy, it is difficult for recent college grads to gain entry into the career of their choice so many experienced people out of work. Yes, that's not teachers fault that entry into other middle class jobs is difficult, but those that are certified teachers are not more unfortunate than most other new college grads.

[stopbush]

24. Teachers in Nevada start at $26k

which is why they work here two years and get the hell out.

[VolcanoJen]

25. Let me get this straight...

... all you have to do is forfeit your right to collective bargaining, and we'll pay you 100 LARGE per year. Just sign on the dotted line.

We promise. Swear. Stick a needle in my eye.

:eyes:

[JohnKleeb]

28. Jen it reeks of deep shit to me too

[CreekDog]

31. So What If They Want More $$, Why Is It A Crime For A Teacher To Ask?

If Ken Lay can makes hundreds of millions while still trying to make more, why do people get so angry when hard working teachers want to make more?

$100,000 is a lot, but a lot of CEO's who drive their companies into the ground make more and want more.

[JVS]

33. That isn't why it reeks of deep shit.

It isn't because they want more money. The suspicious part here is that they are being offered more money on the condition that they not be unionized. Why is that?

It is akin to me telling you that if you give up your car I'll drive you anywhere you want to go. It might be nice to be driven, but if you start to dislike the way that I drive, you aren't going to have a car to go back to.

[Bozita]

36. Fox wants viewers to remember "Teachers would make $100k without unions."

See how evil those unions are.

That's how FauxNews got its name.

[John_H]

38. Yeah right. 110k for one year until they give up collective bargaining...

and then they'll take away good health plans, raid the pensions, make them pay big "licensing" fees, and probably evern say ..oh jeez we can't affor these big salaries anymore. That 100k'll start looking like thrity in a hurry.

If the teachers fall for this in MN, i wouldn't want 'em teaching my kids.

[SteveG]

48. A source for real info about teachers salaries

http://www.dnrec.state.de.us/air/aqm_page/docs/pdf/asbinfo.pdf

Some interesting items - 2002 figures

National average salary = $44,367
Lowest paying state Average (South Dakota) = $31,383
Highest paying state Average (California)=$54,358

Starting Salary
national average = $20,998
Lowest Paying State (North Dakota)=$30,719
Highest Paying State (Alaska)=$36,294

Relative Standard of living for teachers is the lowest in 40 years
(Ratio of Teacher Salaries and per capita GDP)

The Average Salary for a teacher in Illinois is $44,609
The Average beginning salary in Illinois is $ 31,764

In 1991 Teachers pay averaged 21% above that of the average full time worker in the U.S. in 2002 the advantage dropped to 8%

Maximum Salary with masters degree in 100 largest cities
100 City Average =$ 53,247
Lowest paying city =$ 39,450 (Tulsa, Ok)
Highest Paying city =$ 84,310 (Yonkers, NY)

Minimum Salary with Bachelors degree in 100 largest cities
100 City Average =$ 31,567
Lowest paying city =$ 24,409 (Jackson, Miss.)
Highest Paying city =$ 45,609(Freemont, CA)

[Uzybone]

50. Thanks for posting that

helps put this discussion in perspective.

[creativelcro]

51. that pdf has no info on teachers...

can you post the correct link, if possible. Thanks.
-C

"http://www.dnrec.state.de.us/air/aqm_page/docs/pdf/asbinfo.pdf"