Is Dean a liar....

[Bread and Circus]

When Dean infers that Kucinich supported the war on Iraq,
does that make him a liar?

This may inflame people and may even violate the rules, but
in all honesty, why does Dean get away with thinking he
can smear all other candidates and make them sound pro-war
when it is much more complicated than that?

Kerry and Clark are pretty much in the same boat, but
Kucinich?

This is total deception !?!

[w13rd0]

1. What the F*** are you talking about?

When did Dean infer that Kucinich supported the war? Are you daft, or just tossing out flamebait? Kucinich has been unequivocally opposed, and Dean has never said otherwise. Whatever, I guess I can now start a post: "Is familydoctor a liar...when he says that Dean infers that Kucinich supported the war..."

[wtmusic]

5. Dean is running ads in NH that say

'my opponents supported the war'.

[w4rma]

18. That's a misquote, wtmusic. Here is the text of the ad.

"…the best my opponents can do is ask questions today that they should have asked before they supported the war."

New Hampshire Ad: DEAN: A hundred and thirty thousand troops in Iraq, with no end in sight and a price tag that goes up daily and the best my opponents can do is ask questions today that they should have asked before they supported the war. I opposed the war from the start because I want a foreign policy consistent with American values and I want to reclaim our rights and our liberties that were taken away in the name of patriotism. I'm Howard Dean and I approved this message because only you have the power to restore the dignity and respect that our country deserves. (10/22)
http://www.tnr.com/primary/index.mhtml?pid=883

[wtmusic]

23. Just how does my quote differ in substance

from Dean's actual TV copy?

[ThirdWheelLegend]

25. yes but holds the same meaning...

"they supported the war" directly relates to the subject.."my opponenents"

English teachers did I do that right?

TWL

[ThirdWheelLegend]

6. I think you may have missed the other thread...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=584433


Dean has TV ads, available on his own site. The one for New Hamp. has a line in it, (Dean speaking)
"The best MY opponents could do is ask questions today, that they should have asked before they supported the war."

All inclusive to me includes Kucinich and Sharpton. Kucinich has been anti iraq war since there was first talk of it after 9-11. He also organized a large amount of US reps to vote against the resolution.

I can only see this two ways.

A)He lied
or
B)He is being arrogant and dismissing Kucinich as an actual opponent.

I have been yelled at all day by Dean supporters stating that once again Dean is clean, because DK doesn't matter..

There is a synopsis

TWL

[Demobrat]

12. I'll go with B.

If you want to call dismissing as irrelevant a guy who's polling at 0 arrogant, hey, knock yourself out.

[ThirdWheelLegend]

15. and it continues..

:eyes:

Does Dean know he has such engaging respectful people campaigning for him?

ugh

TWL

[Demobrat]

24. Yes.

He's met most of us.

[Jim Sagle]

28. Once again, Dean is clean, because DK doesn't matter.

[ThirdWheelLegend]

2. don't go there!

I just did this all day.... :eyes:

Dean does not lie because Kucinich is irrelevant! DUH!

There thats all you need to know.

TWL

[wtmusic]

3. Dean does not say 'all my opponents'

although I would agree it is a reasonable inference. I predict he will change the ad.

[AP]

7. Kucinich already brought this up at the debate. Dean isn't changing the ad

This is part of his campaign strategy. He knows what he's doing.

[ThirdWheelLegend]

10. Did I miss something?

How long has the ad been out?

I was under the impression from the uproar today that it was new and there has not been a debate since the complaint was filed.

TWL

[pruner]

16. wtf are you talking about?

the ad began running thursday.

the debate is sunday.

how exactly did Kucinich bring it up at a debate that hasn't yet taken place?

[ThirdWheelLegend]

9. ??

you agree he should change it??

Thank you!

The first Dean supporter that said that today... as far as I can recollect between all the Dennis bashing that took place.

Thanks sir? miss?

TWL

[wtmusic]

19. Yeah I do

The bar has been raised because of the amount of media exposure Dean gets as a frontrunner, but he has to be more careful with what he says, period. And--it would only help his own chances to acknowledge Kucinich's tireless efforts against the war.

[thebigidea]

4. not only that...

but he worships the goat with a thousand young, apparently. Those Vermonters are really, REALLY into Lovecraftian horrors from beyond space and time.

[quinnox]

8. It's a poor choice of words

If Dean had said a little word, "some of my opponents..." then no problem.

But he basically is painting all his opponents in the same light, which isn't true given Kucinich, Sharpton, and Brauns anti-war stance.

[Rowdyboy]

17. I get the point Dean is making

that he is the only serious anti-war candidate, but his tactics are very weak.

[LuminousX]

11. Liar? No. Crafty? Yes.

His statement is technically correct. 'My opponents' is not the same as "All of my opponents" but is sounds that way. Now Dennis makes a bunch of noise about it and what does the average voter really hear? Oh, Dean was opposed to the war and this other guys says he is opposed to it also.

Through design or luck, Dean is going to get double exposure on this ad for the price of one ad run.

[jeter]

13. Kucinich is a nobody. He wasn't mentioned in the ad

Kucinich, Braun, and Sharpton have to come to grips with the fact that they have no chance to win this nomination.

This is a race between:

1) Governor Howard Dean
2) Senator John Kerry
3) Congressman Dick Gepthardt
4) Senator Joe Lieberman
5) Senator John Edwards
6) General Wesley Clark

Dean's ad was in reference to Kerry, Gepthardt, and Lieberman. They DID support the war resolution.

Now Kucinich is trying to get some free exposure on Dean's dime. No one in their right mind, Kucinich included, believed that he was the target of that ad. Now those anti-Dean candidates are talking about how horrible Dean is for "lying" about poor Dennis Kucinich.

[ThirdWheelLegend]

22. "Now Kucinich is trying to get some free exposure on Dean's dime."

Oh come on!

Kucinich riding dean's wave?

Uhm who was playing dress-up progressive against the real progressive?

Man I have heard it all, and the insults to Dennis just don't stop.

Really, if you are trying to convert people, I don't think insults are the best way to go about it.

TWL

[genius]

14. When did Dean ever tell the truth?

Is the man pathological?

[LuminousX]

20. Give it up

No one but the truly desperate buys into the 'candidate x is a pathological liar.' If that were true, wouldn't it have surfaced sometime during his past. It hasn't. And this isn't a lie. It is a carefully (or fortuitously) crafted statement.

[w4rma]

21. genius is posting another lie. (n/t)

[not systems]

26. This is total deception !?!

It is like the manson family murders... but worse!!!

Get over it already.

If you support Clark do so.

Dean didn't lie.

If you support Kucinich do so.

Dean didn't dilute his message because Kucinich is
simple not polling as relevant.

If Dean would have footnoted his message it would
have been a big name recognition win for Kucinich.

[Name removed]

27. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Jim Sagle]

29. Dennis who?

:shrug:

[LuminousX]

30. Ow... that hurts

I about burst a gut.

[TSIAS]

31. Locking

4. If you wish to start a vanity thread (ie: a discussion thread in which the sole purpose is to share your personal opinion) you must state your opinion in a non-inflammatory manner which respects differences in opinion and facilitates actual discussion.

There are also plenty of existing threads addressing the Dean/Kucinich matter.

Taylor
GD Moderator

[lcordero]

32. technically, he isn't

HOWEVER, his use of semantics(just like in the Social Security issue with the raising of the age) makes him as nasty as any kind of confidence artist or used carsalesman. The statement was crafted in order to mislead the public.
Ordinary people despise "wordplay" and will punish politicians for it every step of the way.