Time for Civil Disobedience?

[Girlfriday]

I have always wondered how do those Bible thumping, born again a**holes square what they do with what they say. They are all so hypocritical!

Tonights NOW with Bill Moyers was really good. He covered cheap labor and how the middle class is being buried. His guest was a gentleman by the name of Joe Hough (sounds like huff):

<snip>

Overview

Bill Moyers talks to Joseph C. Hough on the intersection of politics and religion, and why he thinks it is the duty of Christians, Jews and Muslims to join to fight growing economic inequality, why he’s critical of how some political pundits are using Christianity to justify their actions, and why he suspects that the time for a non-destructive, civil disobedience may be near.

<snip>

HOUGH: Well, my perception, Bill, is that there is a definite intentional move on the part of political leadership in this country. In the direction that I think is not at all compatible with the prophetic tradition in Islam, Christianity, or Judaism. And that is the obligation on the part of people who believe in God to care for the least and the poorest. That central teaching, that sacred code, I think, is very well summed up in Proverbs where the writer of Proverbs says, "Those who oppress the needy insult their maker." "Those who oppress the needy insult their maker."

And I think that it would be a wonderful thing if we could stand together, these three great Abrahamic traditions, and say, "Look, we do not countenance this sort of thing. It is not only unfair, it is immoral on the basis of our religious traditions, and we believe it's an insult to God."

<snip>

I'm getting tired of people claiming they're carrying the banner of my religious tradition when they're doing everything possible to undercut it. And that's what's happening in this country right now. The policies of this country are disadvantaging poor people every day of our lives and every single thing that passes the Congress these days is disadvantaging poor people more.

<snip>


Great interview,you can read the whole transcript here:

http://www.pbs.org/now/transcript/transcript_hough.html

[Selwynn]

1. And by bible thumping assholes, you mean...

fanatical fundamentalists, or are you just giving a blanket insult to anyone with personal spiritual beliefs, including some DUers here?

[iangb]

2. If you'd bothered........

......to read the transcript (and Hough's bio) youd know.......

<snip> Joseph C. Hough, former dean of the Vanderbilt Divinity School, is currently President of the Faculty and William E. Dodge Professor of Social Ethics at the Union Theological Seminary.
Hough graduated from Wake Forest University with a B.A. in 1955. He went on to receive the B.D. (1959), the M.A. (1964), and the Ph.D. (1965) from Yale University. Dr. Hough is an ordained minister in the United Church of Christ, Congregational. His teaching and research interests are in social ethics, theological education, the Church and ministry. "

.......and you wouldn't have to ask such an inane question.

[Nlighten1]

4. I'm sure...

that is what she meant. "Bible thumper" is a term for evangelical Xians.

[Malva Zebrina]

6. it is OK to bash the "fundies", call them bible thumpers and express

bad thoughts about their religion, which , ironically, is Christianity---there aren't too many of them that post on DU, so there will be few overly sensitive howls of "fundie bashing" as we see when someone appropriately points out flaws in other sects of Christianity--this is a case of the majority rules pecking order.

[iangb]

3. These guys are to Chriistianity......

......what Bin Laden is to Islam. (and Bush and Ashcroft are their heroes)

[Malva Zebrina]

5. maybe it is time to start the "war on Christianity"?

And I think that it would be a wonderful thing if we could stand together, these three great Abrahamic traditions, and say, "Look, we do not countenance this sort of thing. It is not only unfair, it is immoral on the basis of our religious traditions, and we believe it's an insult to God."

This is the first time I have seen the term "Abrahamic traditions"--used to denote the three monotheistic religions and it implies that all three worship the same god--that is not true. It is precisely because they do not worship the same god that they have been warring with each for centuries. Hough is being a little unrealistic, but nevertheless it is a nice thought. I sometimes wonder if people who advocate the one religion fits all mode, ever realize that no religion is a democracy--It would seem to me that in order for the people to be really free enough to let down the barriers of "belief" that cause the conflicts, they need to adopt a more democratic approach to the structure of their religion and let their sheeple grow.

[ronatchig]

7. It would be perfect timing

for the majority of christiandom to call out the fundies for what they truly are; modern day pharisees, you know the folks who hung Christ on the cross because they disagreed with his politics.
in as much as the Robertsons and Grahams of the world pretend to be modern day apostles one sees very little casting off of worldly possessions to the needy.
It is past times that their ilk is exposed for what they truly are,disciplines of Satan in a Suit.

[Malva Zebrina]

10. Do you really want to go there?

for centuries the prevalent Christian thought and it's teaching, was that Jews killed Jesus -- were responsible for his crucifixion--that thought was responsible, in part, for the terrors and the horrors of the inquisitions and for the anti-semitism prevalent in the church. Now we are supposedly better informed--it was not the Jews that killed Jesus , it was the Romans, we are told--but you know, the "fundies" do have their religion--in many ways it is more biblical than the more modern views--fundamental. I am not defending the "fundies", but it seems to me that singling out this group, which apparently has infiltrated the seats of our government with radical ideas, is rather hypocritical, wouldn't you say? There are few "fundies" here to defend themself--but are they really the bad guys, compared to all the abuses of the other "great" "Abrhamic traditions"--they are at the bottom of the pecking order on DU that is for sure--

They are, after all,Christian believers just as anyone else here.

[Terwilliger]

11. twerps and idiots who actively interfere with others' lives

no, to hell with 'em...I wish they'd get the fuck out of government and away from government influence.

Having believers in government is bad enough, but I feel like most of them can separate their beliefs and their duties as citizens and to the government.

Fundies will try to constitutionalize the 10 commandments and we dont need that. Fundie efforst put crap like "under god" into the pledge of allegiance when it was never necessary. Even WORSE! were all the Repukes and Demowimps that literally RAN to the capitol steps to recite their pledge under gawd!

No...fundies can go.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

12. Yes, there are differences, but that's not what we're talking about

Did you watch the program or read the transcript?

Yes, these religions are fundamentally different. Books could be written on the subject, and they have. But that's not what Hough was talking about, nor is it what the origianal poster was talking about.

There are common threads between these religions, just as there are common threads between all human beings. Hough was appealing to those common threads. He was talking about all 3 religions drawing on their similar traditions of taking care of "the least" of the citizenry. He was also telling the fundamentalist types to take a flying leap and heavily inferring that they're not being true to what is supposed to be one of their basic tenets.

Hough was talking about the growing and reprehensible divide between the haves and have-nots. He was talking about how ignoring these people, as the religious right does, goes against the teachings of all of these religions.

I'm sure there will still be plenty of time for you to focus on why this religion or that one is wrong, and who is more wrong and so on, if that's really what you want to do, but in the meantime, go with what is common between these religions and start to affect a change in this country, start to take care of the least of our population.

And yes, singling out the "fundies" is totally appropriate. They're the ones with a chokehold on government. They're the ones who are stepping on the throats of the poor and helping to create more of the poor every day. And they're the ones who are total hypocrites, trying to subvert the teachings of their religious traditions for their own hateful reasons. They need to be exposed for the hypocrites that they are. They need to be shown for the liars they are. They need to quit hiding behind the good teachings of Jesus with their venomous hatred. They are legitimate targets, the Pharisses of today, as one poster pointed out.

Thank you.

[Arianrhod]

22. Modern Fundamentalism arose in the first decades of the 20th Century

as a response to two things: Findings of science that increasingly undermined Christian mythology; and a veering of social attitudes towards a more liberal outlook. It is, and always has been, first and foremost a political movement. The intent of its founders was to stop the growing secularism of the culture, and to re-insert "Christian" dogma back into the laws and the government. That's why they attacked the science of evolution by demanding the passing of laws banning its teaching; it was in response to their political activities, not their religious beliefs, that the ACLU asked John T Scopes to challenge them in court (thus giving us the amusing incident known as the 1925 "Monkey Trial").

I grew up in a Fundamentalist church. Believe me, these people are not religious in the normal sense of the word. They are not traditional Christians. IMO, there is no difference between a Christian Fundamentalist and an Islamic Fundamentalist; they both want the same things, just under a different banner.

[catzies]

17. Maybe it's time to reinforce separation of church and state.

I don't care what any church does in this country until it interferes with my government. Then I'm pissed. :mad:

[reprobate]

18. worship the same god--that is not true.Do you realize what you said?

Let's look at what you said.

You said that it is not true that all three religions worship the same god. I take that to mean that if three religions worship different gods, there must be three gods. But they all claim theirs to be the only way and the true god. Giving each their due, there would then have to be three true gods, and that means a pantheist universe. Directly opposite to what they are saying.

It's arguements like this that led me to the ever growing crowd that believes only in man and his ability to overcome, when he puts his mind to it. Far less mental mobius twists this way.

[IranianDemocrat]

20. Maybe it's time to be a little tolerant.

I guess tolerance only applies to race and sexual orientation eh?

[T Roosevelt]

8. That segment was awesome!

Hough was incredible - I wish he would take the fight more public, focus on the people who claim to be Christian (like he did with DeLay). They need to be called on the carpet by someone who is truly a Christian, and this guy can do it.

[hippywife]

9. Absolutely loved this segment!!

My husband said if I could find a church with leaders like that he would even attend.

True Christians don't act like the ones who play Christians on TV. ;)

[Rose Siding]

19. I fell completely in love with Hough...

This humble fruit inspecter believes he's the real deal.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

13. So what does everyone think?

bumpety bump bump bump

[9215]

14. I liked how he seeks to unite

the followers of the "Abrahamic tradition" (Judeo-Islamic-Christian) and compared it with the divisiveness of General Boykin's statement about how his god (Christianity) is bigger than the others.

I guess many of you know how I feel about religion in general, but who can argue with the intentions of Hough here. Another man of the cloth Rev. Barry Lynn, head of Americans United for the Separation of Church and State is a hero of mine as well.

[Nay]

15. I saw that segment and LOVED it.

I'm an atheist, and even I can figure out that this guy has hit the nail on the head. Of course, the RW "leaders" who have taken over this country don't give any more of a hoot about the meaning of their religion than I do, but people like Hough can keep their feet to the fire and can remind them and their sheeple what their religion is really supposed to be about. Nothing else seems to work, so why not try some out-and-out shaming?

[durutti]

16. What We Really Need

1. A reinvigorated American labor movement.
2. Union democracy.
3. An American Labor Party.

[ScreamingMeemie]

21. Kick