Perhaps it is time to rethink the military draft

[BJ]

As the Vietnam War was winding down a majority of liberal thinkers and a considerabel number of conservatives agreed that the military draft system, as it was at that time, was in need of serious repair or, if not repairable, ended. One criticism voiced by many on the left was that a disporportionate number of draftees came from economically disadvantaged segements of society, there being unrefutable statistics to back this claim.

The remedy was the blind lottery system, the first drawing on December 1,1969 for eligible men for call-up in 1970. But there were still loopholes and escape clauses--we all know that a draft eligible George W. Bush, through his father's connections, got a coveted spot in the Texas Air National Guard.

In 1973 the draft was ended and the Milton Friedman inspired all-volunteer Army we know today began.

Yet many of the socioeconomic inadequacies, appearent within the armed services during the Vietnam era, are back in spades today. After all, Jessica Lynch is a product of rural poverty and as one watches the roll-call at the end of each NewsHour With Jim Lehrer the disporportionate number of black and Latino causalities.

Currently New York Representative Charles Rangel and South Carolia Senator Fritz Hollings are sponsoring a bill to reinstate a military draft.

So as the slackjawed sons of suburban trophy wives and chickhawk whitecollar husbands loll in the halls of academe, spouting pro-Bush, pro-war slogans, young men and women, whose only prospect of entering those same hallowed halls of learning, are shipped off to fight and die in foreign lands. Likewise, National Guardsmen and Reservists, many who are fathers and mothers, lured by the promise of an extra income and a chance to help their community, are throw into the deeping quagmire of Iraq and Afghanistan.

Perhaps it is time that liberals rethink the concept of a military draft.

Op-ed piece by Rep. Charles Rangel & Sen. Fritz Hollings
"...we seek to address a key inadequacy of the current defense: The burden of defending our great nation has fallen disproportionately upon those with limited socioeconomic opportunities.
(-snip-)
"But looking at the casualty rolls from Iraq, we see an overwhelming number of blacks and Latinos from large cities and whites from small, rural towns. In most instances, their economic and educational opportunities were limited. Some of those lost weren't even citizens.
(-snip-)
"As combat veterans, as policy-makers and as citizens, we both strongly believe that the burden of defending our nation must be shared. We can't continue to call upon the same people, and the same segment of society, to make all of the sacrifices while other folks continue on with their lives as if nobody is dying out there."

[goobergunch]

1. And of course there are some of us

of draft age that don't particularly feel like dying for the PNAC agenda....

[Selwynn]

14. No kidding!

[kalian]

2. The draft...

means that a professional army has either 1) failed to accomplish its duty or 2) is spread too thin.
I think that the draft will be re-instated by summer of 2005, AFTER the "elections" have passed into history (and infamy...).
Another thing, the politicos have to keep their "professional army"
ready for the next campaigns (read: invasions). They do the fighting
and the conquering...and then they send the wet-behind-the-ears
grunts to hold the turf and become targets.

When they re-instate the draft...it will NOT be "fair". It never has been and never will be.
Don't believe Rangel..he's a lying SOB.

[drscm]

3. I do not understand how they believe that the draft will address

the disproportional burden.

The DeLay's, Bush's, Cheney's, etc., will still figure out a way of avoiding serving.

[Brucey]

4. Okay. I re-thought the idea.

It's a lousy, horrible idea. Really, really bad idea for a "state" or a nation's elected officials (especially here, where elections are a farce; not at all representative) to require it's citizens to kill people from other countries (or people from our own country as at Kent State or friendly fire incidents). Killing is wrong. Even worse is requiring people to do it in the name of some assholes who were elected by some rigged process for the point of stealing some other countries resources or securing more power. Wrong, wrong, wrong. But, I'll re-think it again later.

[CityZen-X]

5. Rich Kid's Drafted?

I seriously doubt that the draft will be reenstated before the 2004 elections. If the draft is put into place and puts the lives of the upper-class children on the line, you will see an inflated anti-war movement such as the one that brought down the Viet Nam machinations!
You will probably recieve a draft exemption if you can prove that your family recieved a Bu$h*t tax break!

[Bronco69]

6. I've noticed that the Bushites haven't

even addressed this issue publicly yet, but if we are forced to suffer four more years of this regime you can bet reinstating the draft will be top priority.

[Liberal Classic]

7. Shame on Rangel and Hollings, and you too!

For all of the high-minded language and flowery speech, there is one little detail in the current system that no pro-draft so-called 'progressive' has ever addressed:

YOU DON'T HAVE TO GO IF YOU DON'T WANT TO GO!

[FDRrocks]

8. I was thinking of how to word my response...

Then you just said it all so well.

[BJ]

31. Perhaps that is the point of reinstating a draft.

(I would have responded earlier but...football)

That being the case, then it is perfectly ok for poor boys and girls to go fight and die for rich boys and girls?

Also, professional soldiers are more likely to be involved in or give tacit approval to war atrocities. I think the recent Latin American history should serve as a warning to the United States on the issue of professional militaries.

[TreasonousBastard]

9. I'm still not sure where Rangel is coming from with this.

Rangel is one smart sumbitch. One of the sharpest on the Hill. And his district is one with a LOT of kids signing up for the college money, or just to have any job at all.

I know a lot of this is for the local voters, but is he really pushing that hard for a draft? Or is he trying to make the point of all the poor kids signing up and actually fighting wars of aggression when they were told they were going to "defend" the country?

I have many reasons to oppose a draft, but I am intigued by a commitment to national service-- everyone is required to serve 2 years, with the military as an option. No exemptions and no excuses.

[BJ]

33. You've grasped the concept!

I believe there are inherent dangers in a standing professional armed forces, especially an army, that I don't have time to go into here.

And I agree with the concept of universal national service as you've stated it.

[Valarauko]

10. In my country, they have the draft.

IMHO, it's NOT a good idea.

[newyawker99]

11. Hi Valarauko!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[raysr]

15. Draft

Drafted, in and out before lottery. A wise friend told me what REALLY stopped the Viet-War was when the rich kid's ran out of deferments and started coming home flag-draped. FTA, FGW! That's what it'll take here, unless DK by some miracle gets elected! The only Bush-antidote we have!

[BJ]

34. Exactly.

Outside the 1967 march on the Pentagon, the campus anti-war movement really didn't gain steam until after the first lottery of December 1, 1969 and the 2-S deferment was thrown out the window.

[JVS]

36. Way to subscribe to "The worse the better"

[dsc]

12. Currently all of the cost of this war is being borne by lower and middle

class people and that is completely unfair. It is they who have the programs cut which could help them avoid this choice, are having tuitions rise to make this choice more necessary, and are getting no tax cuts. All the while people in college are by and large doing nothing at all to protest this. A real, no exemption, draft may well be what is needed.

[DrGonzoLives]

13. No

The draft is utter, complete bullshit, always has been, always will be. Why should ANYONE be forced to die for a cause that they do not believe in? Why would you institute a no-loophole draft to get those few that do believe in the cause but don't want to go, all the while getting a shitload of folks who fall into the first category?

How many people have to die before your agenda is fulfilled?

[raysr]

17. Draft

Why do you think they like to get the young ones? I was in before I knew what happened!

[niyad]

16. NO NO NO a million times NO

it is really very simple. a draft is simply an admission that whatever the administration is doing is NOT seen as necessary.

when the people believe that the latest war or whatever IS necessary, no draft is necessary. remember WWII?

a draft simply allows these fools to have unlimited cannon fodder for their imperialist activities.

anybody remember the movie "what if they gave a war and nobody came"??

[raysr]

18. Draft

Been in the Army, been in jail, I'd go back to jail before the Army, would give same advice to my son. The way the country is shaping up it sure as hell isn't worth dying for!!

[Hamlette]

19. the quickest way to end the war is with the draft

Perhaps the Vietnam protests had nothing to do with ending that war but I think they were instrumental. The people who protested were, in large part, people who were subject to the draft or who had loved ones who were subject to the draft. I believe that had we had an all volunteer army during Vietnam we'd still be fighting there today.

As long as we fight wars only with volunteers, many of whom join because they have few options for better careers due to socio-economic factors, wars can fly under the radar.

You start drafting the sons and daughters of rich, comfortable, powerful people and you will see this stupid war end in a New York Minute. We simply will not tolerate our sons or daughters dying in an unjust, unnecessary war.

My son is draft age. If there were a danger he would go to Iraq, or any other unnecessary conflict, or that any of his friends would, I would quit my job, move to DC and start organizing protests full time.

Rangel is right. Bring the war home. Draft a couple of kids of the chickenhawks in Congress. They might not think oil is worth it.

[JVS]

20. The quickest way to end a war is to stop waging it

[raysr]

21. Draft

http://www.defendamerica.mil/ Talk about whether to or not, they're already staffing the boards! There is not enough passion in the revolution(movement) or else Bush would be dragged out of the White House by his ass. Remember this very important point, Nixon was re-elected for a second term while all the protests were going full-tilt! Drafting the rich kids brought it down, I really believe that.

[Hamlette]

22. "The quickest way to end a war is to stop waging it"???

It seems more productive to talk about how to end it, given that the people in power will not, than to come up with cute bumper stickers slogans.

As soon as those lottery numbers were chosen, and a few rich and powerful people had sons with low numbers, Nixon ended the war.

[JVS]

25. To enact a draft one needs to be in controll of the government.

If the Democrats gain control of the government they shouldn't even bother enacting a draft, they should merely end the war.

[Hamlette]

30. Dems end the war?

Pulling out right now would be insane. We can't leave iraq until there is peace or someone there to keep the peace.

Military service is mandatory in Switzerland. Switzerland has been neutral in every war. Coincidence? I don't think so.

[JVS]

35. Switzerland's neutrality was agreed upon by the great powers in 1815

at the congress of Vienna. It really has more to do with their decision to respect the neutrality than Swiss military prowess.

Mandatory military service is mandatory in Germany. Never seemed to stop them from being able to go on a spree.

Are you suggesting that Democrats start a draft in 2005 if we win. If that happens we will lose huge in 2008.

[bluestateguy]

23. Only white, chickenhawk, frat boy Republicans should be drafted

I favor exemption for everybody else. But when folks like these come forward with bullshit excuses they shuld be packed up an sent off to the front lines of the most brutal combat. To which we should say like Mr. Burns on the Simpsons "Excellent".

[ElsewheresDaughter]

24. nobel ideal but i fear it will eventually end up with the same proportions

the upper and upper middle class kids will be disproportionally exempted while the lower middle class and poor will bloat the ranks of foot soldiers(fodder)....there is no justice in this life...let's not fool ourselves again

[Silverhair]

26. NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I understand your arguement and reject it. I shall remain adamantly opposed to the draft. In fact I am even opposed to the current draft registration.

[onebigbadwulf]

28. SOMETHING'S SERIOUSLY WRONG HERE

The military saw RECORD enlistment after 9-11!!! And now it's seeing RECORD non-re-enlistment! THIS MEANS SOMETHING IS SERIOUSLY WRONG. Why don't repukes and fundies see this???!!!

[IndianaGreen]

29. We should not be feeding canon fodder to the militarists

I am totally opposed to the military draft in any form!

[quaker bill]

27. Yes it is

It is time to completely eliminate the concept from law and our conciousness.

If there is a war that must be fought for our survival, volunteers will not be a problem.

A draft only enables the fighting of unpopular wars. There should be no unpopular wars.

[BJ]

32. Then, in your opinion, Worl War II was an unpopular war?

[ursacorwin]

37. flame away

but i agree with the original poster.

i've always wondered at the resistence to the draft on DU, and assume it's because so many younger people post here. the sad fact is, the argument cuts both ways. if we criticize the rethug youth for rah-rah chickenhawk behavior, we have to hold ourselves to the same standard. does that mean you go and fight? hell no!! but it does mean you put your money where your mouth is, just like they should, and stand up for what you believe in. to do less is just to talk.

it's jail, but if enough young people were to say, "jail is fine with me" you betcha powerful adults and moderates would sit right up and take notice. that would change things quickly enough.