Okay, DU should organize a strictly internal US political event!

[E_Zapata]

As per a pervasive question about the focus of today's march on Washington in this thread: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=589807#589918

And many saying, well, organize what you do want to see.

why shouldn't DU try to organize a real live american-style event that will appeal to middle america. The ONLY way to stop the fasict hemmoraging in this country is to sway the public. So intead of giving them a bunch of FREE MUMIA crap (which has its place, but not with the american electorate), why not organize something that will appeal to the average joe sixpack?

I am thinking something along the lines of Farm Aid. Remember that?

Why not have a strictly american gathering? With the AMERICAN musicians and artists and writers and pundits and economists and politicians who have had the courage to speak out. And I say NOT to invite any presidential candidates this first go around. Stictly americans with americans.

And the focus will be on our country and what it used to stand for and WHAT we want our country to stand for. So, not anti-bush, but pro-america and pro-democracy

Specifically:

MUSIC: John Cougar Mellencamp, Dixie Chicks, Bruce Springsteen, and others.

Journalists/Pundits: Malloy, Will Pitt, Guy James, Alterman, Molly Ivins, Jim Hightower

Economists: Krugman (I am sure there are others!)

Cartoonists: Truedeau, Wasserman, Tom Tomorrow.

Writers: Vonnegut, Chomsky, Bev Harris, Joe Conason, (the list is long, Michael Moore (if he can stop campaigning for a candidate for a day!)

Actor Activists: Tim Robbins, Susan Sarandon, Jen and Brad (NOT jen and ben! LOL). Hell.....just to add salt to the wounds: let's invite Babs and Jane! That will get some folks' opinions.

Strong voices of reason/conscience piercing: Bill Clinton! Joe Wilson. Howard Zinn.

Politicians: Byrd, Waxman, Hillary, (would love to include Kucinich...but best to not make this about the next election other than to say NO to what we currently have).

Corporate Sponsors: ??? are there any benign corporations out there????? Please tell me there is at least one or two!

Let's show America what it's made of by platforming REAL americans who have the courage to speak out with reason and with peace. Give middle america something they can reach out to. Remind them who we are -- who they are. Remind them of what is possible. Remind them of their responsibility, and accountability for every evil act Bush has committed.

WHEN: New Year's EVE! At some big ole ranch in maybe s. California.....but TEXAS...near crawford is appealing for some reason (but the weather is bad).

Can you imagine the publication of a book that documents everything that was said at such an event?

Show mainstream america who they are.....but mirroring our very, very best.

The only loose end I can think of (LOL) is who shall sing the national anthem? Whitney isn't doing too well these days. Maybe that Josh dude.

Oh, and what would it be called? What would the theme be? America the Beautiful?

Frankly, this country and its people are beautiful in so many ways. We have lost site of our conscience. We just need to remind ourselves of what we stand for, that's all. So let's do it.

[Salviati]

1. A name perhaps:

Project for a Just (Fair, Free, etc...) American Century...

[E_Zapata]

2. Nice. Very nice.

in that case, then we need to invite that new org who organized strictly to counter the PNAC. What's it called? C______ for a realistic .... oh, it's new. I don't have the name handy as a household term yet.

And please......ADD to the list of speakers/presenters everyone.

If you bitch about 'the movement' then you are obligated to brainstorm on this. That's right.....a direct order (from the founding fathers) :-)

[gristy]

69. Ron Paul

Republican Congressman from Texas. Here's a link to recent speeches. I read his http://www.house.gov/paul/congrec/congrec2003/cr071003.htm">Neo-CONNED speech soon after he gave it. It was talked about on DU. It's a great speech.

[E_Zapata]

3. P-DAC!

How's about: Project for a DECENT American Century.

the word decent will appeal to the freeper types who haven't completely turned to the dark side.

P-DAC in S.Cal!

[FauxNewsBlues]

4. It is desperately needed

I personally think Mumia is guilty. So there. We have an unelected chimp in the White House, soldiers dying, civilians dying, our infrastructure crumbling, health care not available/affordable, poverty on the rise, and these Mumia people think that he is the most important thing in the universe. Their universe maybe, but not mine.

I am left of center, not a member of the Joe Stalin fan club. Asking a Susan Collins Republican from Maine to go support a David Duke rally will get about the same result as getting a middle american democrat to get pumped up with the Mumia brigade.

These people are so insulated in their own little world, with their dialectic constructs spewed so often when they are convening with each other, that they have no idea how bizarre they sound to most people.

I used to live it. When I was in San Francisco, going to college, the debates between the Maoists, vs the Marxist-Leninists, vs the Trotskyites reminded me of catholic theologians debating how many angels could fit on the head of a pin.

They are such a minority in this country it isn't funny. They live to hate this country. I don't. I hate some of the things this country has done, I hate some of it's leaders, but I love my country. I want to fix it. These people want to destroy it. "Simple" middle americans get that. These people aren't interested in a single payer plan for health care, better drug benefits, after school programs. That is what middle america wants, not outdated, outmoded Marxist rhetoric.

[E_Zapata]

6. I hear ya brother (or sister?)

I don't care about mumia. I don't even know the details. What I do know is he is ONE PERSON. That's it. To compromise millions for one guy from sea to sea is absurd. I am more concerned with the elderly and disabled losing their benefits and children not getting educated. These are the people who have gotten up every morning their entire lives and have not hurt anyone, and now our country has abandoned them. That's INJUSTICE!

But let's not get too on the critical brigade here. Let's manifest something FANTASTIC!

[Kathy in Cambridge]

7. They're of the same mindset as the freepers, only their political opposite

I live in the People's Republic of Cambridge, and growing up I had many a discussion with the radical Marxist/Leftist folks. I understand how David Horowitz and Christoher Hitchens moved from left to right-their rigidness brought them there. There is black and white and no gray.

I also love my country-not just the current administration. Their message does a lot to alienate middle America-and leftist Democrats like myself.

[E_Zapata]

12. You are so right.

I got a little nuts on the indymedia sites. They ruined a protest against bush. Absolutely ruined it. There could have been 10,000 protesters there.....and these idiots incited much fear and angst. Fear is not the way. (hey, maybe that's THE THEME. Fight Fear.....dissolve fear. I mean, that's the ONLY card the radical right uses.)

ah, that's it. Bingo. THANKS!

2004: Courage Not Fear.

[Beaker]

9. I concur.

the 'free mumia' people are complete wastes of time and space.

[E_Zapata]

5. THEME ideas:

It can be held on New Year's Eve to mark what we want to manifest in 2004.

It's ALL about 2004. New year...new beginning.....shaking off the events of the last few years. Setting a new and brighter course.

ah - nothing is coming to me quite yet. But it will.

[Q]

10. How about...

...the White Middle Class Consumer Clones More Or Less Opposed To Bush*?

- Those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it.

[E_Zapata]

13. ay, now that's not quite the spirit I had in mind

but i hear ya.

:-)

Besides, they aren't really clones (not yet). They have been made to THINK they are clones and must march in step. But they are AMERICANS...and our spirit is strong. And it goes to the core of our DNA. I know that. And that's what I want to rejuvenate with this.

[Q]

43. Sorry...all the nasty comments about today's protest...

...has really turned me off to the NeoDems. That is...Democrats who sit on their ass in the name of 'bipartisanship' while Bush* destoys America...and all they can complain about are the 'extremists' who pull off one successful rally after another.

- Did you see the faces of those who attended the protest today? They didn't care who organized the protest...THEY showed up because...unlike the lack-of-opposition-party...they're fighting for their country.

- We've already seen that most Americans are happy to sit this one out as long as they have their cars, guns and teevees.

[bearfartinthewoods]

49. successful? can you define that sucess?

i guess first you'd have to list the goals and then tell how these goals were met..

[Neecy]

70. oh, piss off

Throwing around inflammatory comments like "NeoDems" and claiming some kind of moral superiority is pointless. You claim we should organize on our own, and then mock us when we discuss doing it.

Take your smarmy attitude to another thread. It's disruptive and counterproductive here (which, I'm sure, is your intention).

[Tatiana]

18. HELLO!

"I only want to be marching with people who think and look like I do!"

Let's get real. Instead of searching for ways to marginalize already marginalized people and groups, why don't we emphasize our COMMON GROUND? Perhaps we can persuade others to set aside their agendas for one moment and focus on what should be the common goal of all supporters: the return to an America we know, love, and recognize.

The type of rhetoric I've seen today is the exact reason why we saw so many Democrats flock to the Green party. People want a voice. If no one is listening to them, they will take their votes elsewhere. Personally, I don't care who these people support, whether Mumia did it or not, if someone is a Marxist or anarchist... all that matters is that they work towards the goal of ridding this nation of the fascist bastard who stole the Presidency.

[E_Zapata]

20. Hello back at ya

True. This divisive rhetoric and attitude is the reason the radical right is even in office!

[Q]

44. No...you're not going overboard...

...it's a great discussion. But this debate shouldn't be at the expense of all those who rallied today. Their message may have been diverse...but it wasn't 'useless' as some have claimed.

- But speaking of 'all American' rallies...don't you find it strange that nothing has been done like this after three years of the worse 'president' in history? After 9-11 and illegal, 'aggressive' war and invasion of Iraq...most Americans seem content to let George do whatever he wants...even the Democratic party.

- What's needed is leadership and inspiraton. Most of the high-profile Dems and others on the left have been intimidated into silence...or have an agenda similar to Bush's*.

- FSTV already has a 'progressive' voice that's growing every day. I'm sure they would be glad to help in any way they can.

[FauxNewsBlues]

25. My point at least is....

These people know what the common ground is here. They lured people to the rally with common ground issues, then decided to spring upon them their pet causes instead.

It is duplicitous. Back to my republican analogy. If a bunch o' country club republicans are lured to a mom, God, apple pie event, then get Free David Duke speeches, they will not be appreciative of their "common ground".

How do you create common ground with somebody who doesn't share your values? Some of these people want to destroy this country. They don't want to fix it. They loathe the bourgies. We genuinely are working for different causes, different motiviations. I want to change the hearts and minds of middle america. They want middle america toppled by the new workers paradise. They want to get rid of Bush, as do I. But, unless they suddenly grow an urge to "stay on message", it's a waste of time to be involved with them. They associate america loving democrats with them, and we get tarred by association.

I am opposed to the death penalty. I don't want Mumia killed. However, I can't fathom how this man is more important than all other issues. Over 10,000 Iraqis have died while Mumia has received three squares a day, and has done multiple interviews. Is his life worth more than theirs? Is it worth more than the hundreds of american teenagers killed in Iraq for Halliburton? To them it apparently is more important.

There isn't common ground.

[blondeatlast]

51. Remember too that the "news" we are given is

completely sterilized for Cadillac's convenience (among so many others). Because of this, those who dissent must be willing to touch Middle America in a way we may be unaccustomed too. The mumia people can protest all they want, I just don't have time for them when the children of my friends are sitting ducks in Iraq and Bush still smirks from his office.

The media is no longer with us; so we must be very pragmatic about getting the essential issues to the people.

[E_Zapata]

8. I know I am going overboard here...

creating a big ole thread with mostly my own participation...but if anyone is reading this, please give me some ideas.

Specifically:

a. I need a theme that incorporates 2004 - a new and better way.

b. Add to the invitees. Courageous, articulate americans. Whatever their role is.

I am serious. I am going to put this together. If a DUer can run for Secretary of State, I can hold a big love america fest!

[Beaker]

11. A big love America fest would be pretty hard to put together-

by, and especially on New Year's Eve at this point.

[E_Zapata]

14. I don't know about that

The ANSWER march on wash/SF started getting advertised in late august at the earliest. (I think). I have just as much time.

Besides, I will be homeless come January (most likely) and I'd sure like to accomplish some feat before a dark fate takes over. Call it self-interest.

[Beaker]

31. My point is- although YOU may not have plans for New Year's Eve

at this point on the calendar, I'm willing to bet that most of the "name" people on your list, entertainers especially, already have plans.

[bearfartinthewoods]

50. if you get the venue, and the insurance

i think i can get word to Melloncamp. i doubt that he'd do it but i do know someone who knows him well.

[spooky3]

57. I think your ideas are great.

I think the "free Mumia" etc. types should hold as many protests as they want (but be honest about the theme) AND that you and others should pursue your plans too. What jolts some people into paying attention is the sheer number of rallies and demonstrations. It shows them that, contrary to the "news" they hear on TV, there are a lot of people out there whose are not * supporters, not conservative, etc.

[Sagatious8]

15. I love the idea

Partly because I think that DU mirrors the attitudes and beliefs of the American left, and even possibly the American public as a whole, much more accurately than ANSWER. Let's get this off the ground.

[E_Zapata]

16. Cool!

Well, stay tuned.

I have started some files on my hard drive. And I will absolutely get it going.

I have kind of noticed that DU kind of doesn't organize things as a rule; it seems to be more of a 'meeting of the minds' clearinghouse sort of place. But if anyone here wants to join in.....please do. I hope to keep the fire under my own feets for this. And will keep posting.

Right now, I am thinking: sponsorship and funding. And I have a pretty good idea where to go for that. Will reveal more later!

[janekat]

17. Are you trying to APPEAL to Middle America or to shake them up?

Many of those people sound great to me and to DU folks - but I think some of the people might raise the "hackles" of many Middle Americans. I might be mistaken but I think a lot of them think Streisand, Robbins, Moore and Sarandon are the devil reincarnated...

[E_Zapata]

21. True,

but there has to be TRUTH. And if middle america can't deal with TRUTH and REALITY, then it's a lost cause.

We can't join middle america - we have to entice them to join us. And we can't cloak our fervor. It's a slipperly slope for sure.

But give me some names!

Okay, so babs and jane is a bad idea.

[iangb]

36. Just beware of......

......creating the impression that it's a bunch of 'intellectual elitists', and lefty whackos.

You'll have a better idea of who can appeal to 'just plain folks' than I, but that's what is needed.

[markses]

19. DU will be as successful as FR is at their rallies

Y'all have no infrastructure and no reach.

As much as some here hate the wacky longhairs and queers for peace, those fuckers have been organizing for the better part of two-decades, while the mushy middle sat back and stroked their stock portfolios. Wish you the best of luck - and don't forget the port-o-potties.

[E_Zapata]

22. Well, I am going to try to light a fire.

If DU wants to sponsor it, great. If they just want to give what always amounts to the most penetratingly brilliant brain energy to the idea, great.

I am going to try. I am going to put together a mission statement on it, and I am going to go to a really rich anti-bush dude, and tell him to give me a shot. Greater feats have been accomplished.

[ewagner]

23. Some thoughts

First, I think this is an excellent idea. I have only a vague idea of how it can be implemented but I think something like this must be done.

Second, the upthread post stating that we have no infrastructure is correct. We would definitely need to put together a formal structure based on both geography and functional issues (media, transportation, events, agenda etc., ) That could be hard to do.

DU is a wonderful forum for free thinkers and trying to organize a group like ours is like herding cats....it ain't easy!

PM me if you want to discuss it.

[E_Zapata]

26. thanks for your constructive thoughts.

well, you implement something like this simply by digging in and just doing it. I hope that's right -- cause that's all I have going for me, other than being terribly detail-oriented.

Yeah, I think I will just try to use the brilliance of DU brainstorming on this, just to get the vision ironed out. When it comes time to actually implement, then I can come back here and say, "need someone who can do X" and let them volunteer. And if enough DUers participate, then they get a banner!!! (if the owners of the board want that, I should add). It might not be something the board owners are interested in, and that's cool.

I have your name noted, and will no doubt contact you.

For now.....I just want vision.

And the thing is, if something is a good idea, talented and experienced people will emerge. Ohhhhhh, I should go rent Field of Dreams. LOL

[ewagner]

30. Just finished

reading the other thread about the protest in Washington today.

I saw some of it on C-Span and I'll have to tell you I have mixed emotions about it.

Your central theme is the same one that occurred to me. There needs to be an Apple Pie and Motherhood theme that middle America can rally around. I'm afraid some of the more specific causes diluted the messages of NO War, No deficits, No Patriot Act that the organizers hoped to bring to public view.

Remember, the 2004 election will be a battle for the hearts and minds of Ma & Pa Middle America . They can't be frightened away by causes they neither understand or care about.

on edit: I forgot to mention that I'll be glad to help out in any way I can.....maybe I implied it but need to say so specifically.....

[Cheswick2.0]

121. not true

these people have not been organizing for decades. Decades ago it was completely different people organizing.

Stop the mushy middle shit markses, nobody here qualifies.

[Neecy]

24. I'll help

Forget the naysayers. I've seen some taunting in the other thread as to why we don't organize a more mainstream rally, and then here we're taunted for talking about doing it. Screw that.

Maybe in the next few days we can come up with some concepts, then with a general theme/date and start promoting. Nothing happens unless you try.

[E_Zapata]

27. Thanks Neecy.

I haven't seen your handle before. I am usually in GD and LBN. must have missed you. then again, I am not a mainstay DUer. I just come around every few days to get caught up on the news.

It was the other thread that got me going. The naysayers over there make a good point: organize something you do like. well, okay!

But I understand the pessimism. Most days I feel like everything is futile.

I think I want to get the vision and the concept ironed out - and then take it to someone with some MONEY and POWER and say, HEY, fund this. Help get this off the ground. And THEN go out for volunteers to implement.


Because if it goes public too soon, I KNOW it will get thwarted. Look at the "you won't be able to accomplish that" in this thread. I am not immune to "gee, who do I think I am to suggest such a grandiose idea?!"

[Neecy]

29. I'm not so sure

I think there's an incredible need within the public to have their concerns represented, which isn't being fulfilled by the Democrats in congress or by the DLC. Early promotion might be the key in getting the fundraising off to a quick start - and the funds are there. Look at what moveon.org has accomplished just over the last few days. They're tapping into that nerve (and, in fact, might be an excellent co-sponsor).

Whatever the general issues are, you're on the right track.

[Cheswick2.0]

122. there are good corporations that might be interested in helping

Ben Cohen would be a good place to start.

[Forkboy]

32. "Nothing happens unless you try."

I agree,which is why today's rally was a good thing.

[johnfunk]

28. I said it in the other thread; Int'l ANSWER is NOT the answer

I saw much of the rally, which though very well-intentioned was a fiasco of too many messages and a few unforgivable gaffes -- including the near-dissing of Viggo Mortenson.

International ANSWER is just plain not the answer for getting the strong three-pronged "Stop the war, support our troops, we want regime change at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue in 2004" message across -- especially that of support for troops and veterans. That issue is ripe for stripping from the GOFP.

And yes, I agree with many of the causes that were plugged today. Too many of those causes, however, scare the fence-sitters.

I believe DU and a number of motivated DUers should look at sponsoring an antiwar protest in DC -- and solicit the help of a handful of liberal Democrat "establishment" types (such as James Carville, Leon Fuerth, John Podesta) along with a few nonestablishment Web types who have had successes in organizing events (such BartCop, Jeff Koopersmith and The BuzzFalsh Boyz. Between a few of these guys, you'd see a tight rally featuring activists, A-list celebrities, and prime politicians.

Not only that, but with former club owner BartCop involved, it's a slam-dunk that the sound system would be better -- the amount of distortion and overload, even for an outdoor event, came across unacceptable and amateurish to this recording and radio producer...

[ComerPerro]

33. Good idea, but I saw one major problem

why shouldn't DU try to organize a real live american-style event that will appeal to middle america. The ONLY way to stop the fasict hemmoraging in this country is to sway the public. So intead of giving them a bunch of FREE MUMIA crap (which has its place, but not with the american electorate), why not organize something that will appeal to the average joe sixpack?

WHEN: New Year's EVE! At some big ole ranch in maybe s. California...<[/i>


I mean, really, a event for middle America in Southern California?

And forget about Texas. If we do something there, we will just look like we are stealing ideas from Bush.

Really, that is the great thing about Tom Harkin: he brings people to middle America, and you don't get much more middle America than Iowa.

[Neecy]

34. hmmmm

You have a good point. A large protest in, say, St. Louis or Des Moines might carry a more symbolic message than having it on one of the coasts might.

Remember RFK's address to Kansas State University? His success in what was perceived as the 'heartland' gave credence to his campaign.

[ursacorwin]

35. it's very nice

to see folks having the same issues i had years ago...

i've not read the whole of the threads, but i did come looking today to see how the marches went. i'm guessing not so well, nor so well attended?

the problem with the left has always been our diverse nature; it is at the same time our greatest strength. ask any left/liberal/progressive, we'll all tell a different story about why we're that we. as noted above, fear is all that motivates the rethug way of thinking.

so really, don't lose heart that we aren't like the europeans or bolivians. america is by definition a nation of ideas, people, and traditions from all over the place, and it's just plain hard to get enough people to think that issue X is the #1 for their lives.

never forget how small a percentage we are here at DU, and in politics in general. even educated professionals don't follow news like we do, for them today was of no moment.

[HFishbine]

37. Sounds Great! Go for it!

DC would be good or the heartland.

I'll chime in again when Ihave more ideas, but you are on the right track and I just wanted to give my cyber support.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

38. Trudeau is Canadian

You said you only wanted Americans there, right?

I saw some stuff in the other thread grumbling about too many non-Americans. I'm not sure whether that was you or someone else, but the fact of the matter is that many of those people speaking on stage with brown skin and funny last names ARE Americans. Just as American as you and me.

Thank you.

[spooky3]

58. Garry Trudeau (Doonesbury) was born in NYC.

Are you thinking of Pierre Trudeau???

[DisgustipatedinCA]

62. Thank you

No, I was thinking Garry. Probelm is, I'm wrong. I've always "known" he's Canadian. So after you posted this correction I went looking for biographical information, and oops, I was dead wrong.

Thanks for the correction.

[loudnclear]

39. How can I help? Sounds like a great idea...New Years Eve of Day?

I would gladly give up wine and dancing to do something really meaningful on New Years Eve or New Years Day.

Where do we begin? Do want suggestions? You have many good ones already. One suggestion I have is to contact a few of the big name stars to see if they would like to support it or even organize it. Barbara Streisand might be good to contact. Woopie, Robbins, Asner, Al Gore and Tipper, etc. We need big names to get the press attention. One should be organized for the east coast and the west coat and maybe one for mid-America as well...Chicago? It's a great idea but we have very little time to get it well organized. The main messages could even be the same as today's rally but packaged differently. Ray Charles would be good to sing America the Beautiful. Let got for it!!!

[rocktivity]

40. It needs to be a teach-in as much as a rally

And the mainstream media has to be a target as much as the Bush regime. We can use this opportunity to talk about Enron, Halliburton, the war, PNAC and how it's interconnected. Our supporters are out there--they just need to feel confident that they're not alone.!


rocknation

[Lars39]

41. Yes! A version of a teach-in!

This is how to hold the attention of the c-spanners who will surf out if things seem out of control or too much out of their sphere.

[Cheswick2.0]

123. Yes a great idea... a teach-in

I like that idea. The speakers would have to stick to topics of concern to all americans such as PNAC, the idea of pre-emption the raping of the american tax payer by enron and halliburton.

[CivilRightsNow]

42. Way to dilute the message, geniuses

Arlo Guthrie
Beastie Boys - In a World Gone Mad
Ani Di Franco
Pearl Jam - Bushleaguer
Country Joe Mc Donald
Chumbawamba - Jacob's Ladder
Micheal Franti
Rage Against the Machine
John Cougar Mellencamp
Paula Cole - My Hero, Mr. President
Johnatha Brooke - War
The Compassionate Conservatives
Green Day - Life During War Time
Lenny Kravitz - We want peace
Live - What are we fighting for
Little Big Men
John Kasper - We're the Enemy
Maeran
REM - The final straw
Black Eyed Peas - Where is the Love
Cat Stevens
Saul Williams
Bruce Springsteen
Steven Taylor
Sonic Youth - Youth Against Facism
Mudhoney - hard on for war
Ben Harper - remake of redemption song
Sheryl Crow
Dave Matthews
Bono
Jello Biafra
(Many many more small artists that would love to get some play time at the sites below)

http://www.protest-records.com/mp3/index.html
http://polsong.gcal.ac.uk/songs.html

Poets
Amari Baraka
Georgia Mae
Saul Williams
Smokey Robinson - http://www.poetology.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=63
Ras Baraka
Suheir Hammad (AMAZING Lady) http://www.flashpoints.net/first.html
Jessica Care Moore
Beau Sia
Julia Butterfly
(There are many more.. Ill have to get the names)

Actors and Actresses
Susan Sarandon
Tim Robbins
Martin Sheen
Robert Redford
Woody Harrelson
Jennifer Anniston
Brad Pitt
George Clooney
Ben Affleck
Sean Penn
Jessica Lange
Janeane Garofalo
Danny Glover
Alec Baldwin
Kate Hudson
Julia Roberts
Richard Gere
George Carlin
Robin Williams
Garrison Keiler
John Stewart

Democracy Now's Amy Goodman -- FSTV (If anyone could get the money together for some ads on FSTV it may be helpful)

Writers: Al Franken, Micheal Moore, Molly Ivins, Kalle Lassen, Jim Hightower, William R. Pitt, Noam Chomsky, Ariana Huffington, Paul Krugman,David Corn, Sheldon Rampton, Joe Conason, Paul Begala, Gore Vidal, Howard Zinn, Hunter S. Thompson (Many more)

Next step is to find the causes that are aligning with the integral message that we want to convey. Ill save Mumia when I get my fucking country back. We also MUST include antiwar religious entities from Christianity as well as from Islam.

Okay folks,
I'm pissed off. I'm pissed that nobody in my generation even cared to do any research into the movements that came before us. Im pissed that they are wasting publicity. I'm 25, one of the youth that wants to do something but is so confused as to what to even put their energy into.

I'm sitting here in disbelief about the two threads regarding the protests and the responses that seem to indicate that they enjoy wasting their time by diluting the message. The elitist attitude that says, well screw them if they dont want to hear about the evils of america. Screw them if they dont want to listen to us bash everything about the country that they live in. Start your own demonstration. Great. So you guys keep it up and you can effect the whopping changes that you have in the last 9 months. Nada zip, zero.


We MUST appeal to the common denominator. We must FOCUS. Do you people not realize that if you dilute the message nobody wins? Do you realize that if everyone gets up on the stage and screams.. if they bitch about palestine and the phillipines you are going to lose your core audience. People want to fix THIS country. How are you doing any better then the right? Sticking your nose in all over the fucking world. How can you bitch and stand in judgement and then do the same thing yourself?

FREE PALESTINE? FREE MUMIA???? How bout FREE AMERICA? How bout freeing NONVIOLENT DRUG OFFENDERS locked up in our prisons, costing us BILLIONS a year? How bout keeping it in the country?

I'm too upset to write about this right now. Ill be back with something alot more cohesive later.

[E_Zapata]

46. AMEN!

AMEN!

You rallied me on that one! You're 25?! Thank god your generation is backing up mine. Gives me hope!

[CivilRightsNow]

55. :)

ewagner, I'm a lady.. but Ill gladly take the cigar :)

E_Zapata,
I dunno about my generation. I think generally we are apathetic and have no idea what to do even if we did have some energy to do it. We know the world is going to hell in a handbasket, but we feel powerless to change it.

And I feel like none of us has done our research. I mean, you would think that someone would have sat down and took a nice hard look at the protests of the 60s and 70s and tried to figure out how to learn from them. Not to repeat them. Or, in this case, repeat the worst of them. How we will ever accomplish our goal of real change by not focusing on that change is beyond me. But there are alot of folks right now doing just that.

As a child I remember hearing that I had to walk before I could run on a number of occasions. But I think we have forgotten that we have to STAND for something. Perhaps, a focused purpose, or we will fall for anything... nevermind walking or running. Right now we are falling for the myth that dilution like this is a Coalition. When in truth it is the dissolution of any type of cohesiveness we could hope to rally behind to accomplish any of our goals.

[ewagner]

52. Give that man a cigar!!!!

We MUST appeal to the common denominator

That's sort of the whole point isn't it! The equation is the same as it always has been:

25% = Conservative base
25% = Liberal base
50% = battleground.

We can't lose the battleground.............or we lose America!

[ima_sinnic]

54. In that list of actors and actresses, don't forget

Paul Newman and Joanne Woodward

[spooky3]

60. absolutely! 2 wonderful people

Contrast them with Mommie & Poppy Bush...ewwwww.

[spooky3]

59. fantastic list! What if you just organized a musical event first?

with a little time for speeches in between the performances (along with comments from the performers between numbers)?

[CivilRightsNow]

64. Musical event gets a big thumbs up from me.

Im of the opinion that music can change the world, but then again, I just saw Arlo Guthrie two nights ago and he has me a little pumped up. :)

I'm also more inclined to think that we can get a broader group of people there for the music. Why not make it an all day festival? You could have a speaker stage.. booths for some of the fringe groups, although I feel that the message should be strickly adhered to.. Most activism groups have websites anyway and they can give their nonissue related speil to the visitors that are interested enough in their causes to seek more information. You could have crafts, apparel, peace jewelry.. etc. Also, you could give some of the smaller vendors that specialize in natural, organic or vegetarian foods a chance to sell their stuff. You could invite local dojos to give self defense and protest demonstrations, you could invite yogis to teach meditation, or maybe even lead guided meditations. You could invite actresses and actors to speak on the main stage between acts. You could set up theater tents where alternative films or documentaries are shown. The theme that comes to mind for me is Taking back the media, Antiganda... etc. You could have a central media tent where all of the CDs and paraphernalia from those that perform are on sale along with handouts for where the bands will be next, yadda yadda. Make it worthwhile for them to be there. If you could get the names on that list, or even a portion thereof, then you would want to charge admission. Set up a donation program to Food not bombs.. school districts.. programs at home!


I do not agree that the concert should be in the middle of the US. I think that it would suffer in attendance. New York, Florida, or California -- If you are wanting to have it during the winter then southern cali is your only option. I am also against New Years or New Years Eve. Too many have personal plans that would prevent them from coming. However, because you are appealing to the youth as well as the rest.. Winter break would be something that should be given serious consideration.

Press releases, press releases, press releases. Not to mention making sure you have your message completely formulated prior to sending out said information.

Sponsers?
Amy's - http://www.amys.com
Gardenburger - http://www.gardenburger.com/company/index.asp
Vans International - http://www.vansintl.com/about.php
Hain Celestial (bought out Yves and many others) http://www.hain-celestial.com/
Blue Sky Soda - http://www.blueskysoda.com/
Wild Oats Market - http://www.wildoats.com
Whole Foods - http://www.wholefoodsmarket.com/company/

I'm sure I can come up with many more, but there is a start :) I bet none of these folks have ever been asked to sponser anything and got the oppurtunity to have their name at such an event.

[CivilRightsNow]

72. Some more musical guest options- Hip hop

For the young audience, who knows.. some of the older folks might even like em too :)
http://www.daveyd.com/commentarylantiwarsonglist.html
Dead Presidents
Chuck D
Public Enemy
De La Soul
Rakim
Crack Emcee
Dilated Peoples
Felonious
KRS-One
Jurassic 5
Talib Kweli
Nas
Wyclef Jean

[fleetus]

45. Why start from scratch?

I have a friend who is very intent on starting his own non-profit organization to further a cause he believes in. I admire him for it, but I always tell him my basic philosophy is to focus on joining rather than starting. There's already organizations in place that have more name recognition and are going down a similar path. I urge him to think about joining or striving for leadership positions within established organizations before starting something new up himself.

Not to burst your idea, but maybe DU is a better forum for informing people of stuff already out there. If you find something already in the works for an event similar to what you're talking about, you could contact the organization and say you want to work with them in planning the event. At the very least you can offer the attendance of a massive DU posse that you've rallied via this message board. Once they realize that a large chunk of people planning to attend the event were invited by you, you might be able to help shape the message.

[E_Zapata]

48. Yeah, have you ever tried to send an EMAIL to moveon?

Or any of the other alleged clearinghouses for the progessive movement?

They don't respond to anything or anyone. They are one-way operations.

So, I guess I could drive to California and maybe locate moveon's HQs. Maybe.

No......if someone was going to do this.....they would have done it already.

This isn't reinventing the wheel. This is CREATING the wheel.

See post above by "Q" - Q called it right.

[JackRiddler]

66. DU is not starting from scratch...

There are 30,000 members and obviously hundreds of them are already very well connected to progressive activities in their own towns. Plenty of people here are also extremely media-savvy. This is a HUGE group for planning something like this, for all you know more active members than Move On, whatever its 1,000,000 e-mail list (and anyway I'll bet there's plenty of overlap). This should be a new initiative that accomplishes what e_zapata has put up as a goal - clear message, bring down Bush, leave out the rest of the leftist agenda (much as I am for most of that, too).

[E_Zapata]

47. Wow, I was gone for a while.

I have quickly read through the rest of this thread.

You guys are so intelligent and brilliant. I am awe struck.

Okay....I hear it:

NYE = bad night to rally a bunch of people. Need to think on this. Maybe MLK day??? or the Sat or Sun before MLK day? Lots of people have that Monday off?

Heartland America -- much better location.

No reason we can't have satellite broadcasts of it set up in other cities.

So many good idea and so much insight.

Let me think about all of this and write out the synthesis of thoughts and ideas.

Hell, for invitees...may as well just grab the NRA Blacklist! LOL No kidding.

Okay, I need a break from our futile reality. Goin' to the movie and to hear music. More tomorrow.

(Thank you for giving this idea some thought you guys)./

[Q]

53. FSTV - Free Speech Televison -

FSTV.ORG

[mikehiggins]

56. Fine. Hold it in Washington in late August 2004

The town will be empty because all the Repubs will be in NYC to coronate their ruler. We could take back the people's city, our nation's capitol, and have a great time.

Whatever, wherever, everyone should stay out of NYC when the Repugs come to play.

[qanda]

61. In other words

An all white rally.

[Neecy]

67. huh?

Who said anything about an all white rally? I'd love to have the Congressional Black Caucus involved (my personal heroes, the only Democrats these days with spines), the Hispanic Caucus, etc. We are not an 'all white' party - that distinction belongs to the Republicans.

[qanda]

74. I read the original post about who should be involved

And I failed to see one person of color being mentioned. Just an observation.

[blondeatlast]

81. Instead of moaning, suggest someone. Many people of color

have been mentioned as speakers and entertainers already.

[qanda]

95. You don't know what you're talking about!

I'm not the one moaning. I was very pleased with the protest yesterday. I was there and those who weren't are the ones who find it necessary to plan something that's more representative of themselves. My comment was an observation, not a complaint.

[jonnyblitz]

71. damn that is exacty what I was thinking...

when i read that other silly whiney thread complaining about the rally it dawned on my what the "problem" was and you hit it right on the head.

[CivilRightsNow]

75. That is so far off the mark it would be laughable..

If it wasnt so negative and closed minded..

Just because one thinks the problems here at home are a bit more pressing at the moment then the palestinan and phillipinese cause doesnt mean people are racist kkk members. It doesnt mean they want an "all white rally".

It means they want to address our own issues, they dont want to make the same mistake that the people we have in office are making and decide to conquer the world's problems. We want to keep it at home.

[jonnyblitz]

137. i dont think i am the one being negative and close minded

you who only see a few narrow issues as the problem and don't see how they are all tied in are the narrow minded ones....good try though

[CivilRightsNow]

138. Whatever. Look at your assumptions of racism

Instead of giving someone the benefit of the doubt that they had hastily put a list together and perhaps had experiences and exposure that hadnt made them aware of every political activist under the rainbow...

You say "damn that is exactly what I was thinking" in response to someone's remark "An all white rally".

If that isnt closed minded and negative, darling, I dunno what is.

He made suggestions, not imperatives. He invited feedback. You were more then welcome to add people to list that perhaps he wasnt aware of but would be completely open to.

Hogwash. You, who cant see that you cant fix everything in the world right now and must start somewhere and be FOCUSED and undiluted.

[diamond14]

80. and these DUers even think those people on stage were NOT

Americans....if they even looked back at the C-Span video...their little heads 'might' suddenly realize that the people up on the stage at the DC event were ALL AMERICANS....

obviously, they actually think that an all white event is their thing...they may be real surprised to find out that white people from 'middle America' not only enjoyed the DC rally, but they were THERE...'middle America got up and came to DC from many cities across 'middle America'...as a white American, I am ashamed of other white Americans posting on this thread....

many 'middle American' heartland white people have no problem with listening to Black speakers, and many are equally upset about bush*'s crap as other Filippino and Egyptian and Korean Americans, and simply do not have the closed minds shown on this thread...I just spent two weeks near Salida, Colorado...and the sentiment was real clear everywhere "bush* fooled us, and we don't tolerate that crap out here"....when Sally Baron from Hurley, Wisconsin calls bush* a WHISTLE-ASS, and her 'middle American' 6 children decide instantly that her obituary will request donations to ANY organization that will remove bush* from office....that IS 'middle America' and DUers here just missed it...REAL 'middle America' wouldn't spend hours complaining about community organizers and destroying every effort made to defeat bush*....real 'middle America' smells the stench here at DU about this thinly disguised atttempt to organize an all white event...go ahead, enjoy...let us know how your event goes...post photos...

[CivilRightsNow]

83. If all of middle America was there...

The mall couldnt have contained them. No offense, but if you went to an Answer rally, you arent the typical Middle American, you are way more informed and diverse.

Middle America could become that, but I'm sorry.. you are selling out the common denominator and demanding that they all be your unique version of middle america instead of realizing you are unique and informed and trying to figure out the best way to get others informed.

It's like being in a public school and demanding everyone learn at the same rate, with the same exact teaching style and materials as the kids in the AP classes have.

amen, you seem to be taking this really personally from all the responses that Im seeing of yours through the various threads. I think maybe you need to step back and see that people are criticizing an event, not the protestors, not you personally.

*hands amen1234 a daisy*

[Neecy]

90. I really resent this

as a white American, I am ashamed of other white Americans posting on this thread....

This is sheer nonsense and hysteria. You make it sound as though we're getting our robes pressed to hold a mass Klan rally. Bullshit.

If you read the threads yesterday carefully - which obviously you didn't - the objection was to the radical-socialist messages that SOME of the speakers were presenting. Not all. SOME. I don't recall anyone lashing out at the ministers, or the trade unionists.

Obviously, we have a lot of fleshing out to do. Right now we're simply exchanging ideas. I'm sure, in the end, the diversity of the Democratic party - a diversity that some of us take very much to heart and THAT is why your thread was so utterly offensive - will be fully represented.

If you have nothing else to contribute other than to accuse us of racism - a totally false smear - then please leave this thread alone. Otherwise you're doing nothing but disrupting.

[diamond14]

92. please post your photos of your event...we'd love to see them (pics)

here at DU....it's your event, so you get to do as you please....keep us posted here !!!!

and I'm really happy that I didn't have time to read your posts yesterday...because what I was doing yesterday, was STANDING UP with white 'middle America', with OUR soldiers and their families, because I got up, while you dribbled on....and I walked with an old POW from WWII, 84 years old, who came with his daughter from a small town in Ohio, and I met people, really good people, white people, from small cities all over America...from Roanoke Virginia, from Ironwood Michigan, from Normal, Illinois, from 'middle America'....people who care more than to sit and complain...

what I saw yesterday WAS 'middle America'...but I guess you saw something different when you weren't even there...you must have been spending your quality time whining here on DU...

[CivilRightsNow]

94. Too bad it couldnt be an event that was yours too

:( We all want the same things here. We are just debating on which ones are most pertainent and needing focus.

[diamond14]

101. your event would be way too boring for me....I value diversity....nt

.

[Neecy]

103. thanks

Loading up this thread with large photos we all have to scan past is very clever. The intentional disruption of this thread is really childish.

I'm glad you enjoyed the March. It would be courteous if you would leave us now, but I suppose that's too much to hope for.

[diamond14]

106. so it bothers you that 'middle America' came to DC and enjoyed

themselves, listening to Black American speakers, listening to White American speakers, listening to a Filipino American Speaker with a red head band...listening to an Egyptian American Speaker...and enjoying themselves....

here...look again...SEE white 'middle American' people....people who do not spend their days whining about volunteers....people who actually listen feel it's important to keep their minds open...this is MIDDLE AMERICA....surprised aren't you ???

[Neecy]

109. uh-huh

Cute again with the photos - I see it's time to hit the Alert button.

It's very simplistic and deceptive to prattle on about "Phillipino-Americans" etc when you know full well that the objection in that thread was to the radical-socialist "unity with the Iraqi Resistence" message. I'm not fooled by your fake accusations of racism. It's a non-issue that you're using to disrupt.

[qanda]

99. Many generalities have been thrown about

Concerning the rally. One person (who shall remain nameless) even started their own thread to bash something that they admitted to "turning off" because they couldn't stand it any longer. Why should Amen have to leave this thread? Obviously, the entire purpose and outcome of yesterday's rally has been disrupted and hijacked by some on DU. And if Amen feels even half of what I'm feeling, he/she is totally pissed off right now about how the discussion of the rally has been taken over by people who were not there.

[Neecy]

107. At least he started his own thread

And didn't hijack and disrupt someone else's, like what's being done here.

I didn't realize that we weren't allowed to discuss a televised rally, or disagree with some of the radicalism that was presented by some of the speakers. I suppose that your response to being 'pissed off' is to disrupt and take over THIS thread. Have at it. Very adult.

I think perhaps this thread should be restarted in Activism/Events, because it's now become so shredded with this bitterness and with huge photos it's getting difficult to navigate.

[diamond14]

108. more objections to photos of 'middle America'...why does that upset you?

[CivilRightsNow]

110. No offense

But I just dont understand how you can be open minded enough to go to protests, but not openminded to allow people's criticism and hopes to do better. We should always strive to do better. Well, this is the idea of some on how to do better. I do agree, if you dont like it.. then you arent forced to come to the thread. But holding so strong and proud to a way of doing something usually results in staleness and I really believe that is what we saw here. No, I didnt go to the protest. I had a much more interesting time handing out over 250 pamphlets of informative links about our hijacked govt and economy at a local shopping mall, to average americans, yesterday. I do what I think is best. My personal opinion, feel free to disagree.

That protest was not the best we can do. Regardless of how you look at it. And if you were there, and feel it is... Then you are settling, just like every other american, except in a different way. We can always do better.

jsmacdonald wrote a great narrative with some pictures in the below link:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=591509

I had about 40 friends that did go to the dc march and a group of about 30 went to SF. Keep in mind, we are all early to late 20s.. The DCers said they had a good time being with the people but felt really disillusioned about the future of the movement. The SF group said that the energy wasnt as high as the past mobilizations, but that they had a good time. Nobody listened to the speakers.. except for the Raging Grannies, the Vets for Peace and Rev Al.

We are looking to get inspired. We are looking to light a fire, not participate in the hype.

[Name removed]

112. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[CivilRightsNow]

114. Hah-- lets all jump on the short bus

I bet my message and effort reached more average americans then your efforts in a propalestine, prophillipine anti american pity party did.

You want someone to kiss your ass cause you did sOooooo much. Screw that. Ill dissent, and if you dont like it, feel free to kiss my "Whistle- Ass".

Im more middle american.. no Im more middle american.. no I am.. no I am.. No, this is a middle american.. no, this is..

[diamond14]

124. you say "feel free to kiss my "Whistle- Ass"."....no, sorry, I don't kiss

anyone who is a "Whistle-Ass".....

yesterday, though, I kissed an 84 year old, WWII prisoner of war from a small town in Ohio...and I hugged him too...these are 'middle America'...and I was real proud to be walking with them....

P.S. and it may surprise you to learn that a WWII POW enjoyed listening to the speakers, all of them, and even sat in "Disability Vehicle #6" with a great BLACK women, a DC big city EMT (volunteering her time with a red-cross on her arm, which I painted on small pieces of white fabric, one hundred times), who put her arm around a White POW from a small town in Ohio...and EVERYBODY was smiling and enjoying themselves....

[qanda]

120. I'm not trying to shut down criticism,

Where did you read that? I'm asking people to KNOW what they are talking about when they do criticize. When you write scathing criticisms about something that you didn't see or hear then that's just plain old ignorant! Even in your example above it says that "nobody listened to the speakers." Well, how do you come away with disillusionment when you haven't even listened to what was being said?

I think constructive criticism is good. I was one of the main critics of the earlier ANSWER rallies and thought yesterday was mild in comparison. But I did not allow my criticism of what they did to keep me home. Of course the rally wasn't perfect and if DU holds one, it won't be perfect either. There will always be somebody ready and willing to find fault in it. My original point was that there were no people of color mentioned when you all began planning an all American (put whatever your image of that is here) rally.

[CivilRightsNow]

128. I misreplied.

My reply was not meant for you. I completely apologize.

My comments were directed at the person you were speaking about in your post.

[qanda]

130. No problem.

I hope my response was not offensive. If it was, please pardon me.

[davsand]

63. Midwest is great--but not in January!!!

Whoo baby! Midwest would be a great idea for an event, but I'd strongly urge you to consider it as an outdoor event and do it in a time of year when outdoors is a possibility. Chicago or St. Louis on NYD will be RFC (Really Freaking Cold) and you will have to do an indoor event unless you want to pay to rent a stadium...

Usually, by Mid April Illinois has some pretty weather fairly consistantly. By Late Arpil it is warm usually to the point of shirtsleeves being enough clothing.

I'd suggest Memorieal Day and consider making it a "Remember What is Right" about our nation type theme... it is Mom and Apple pie enough to keep the wingnuts from going too crazy, but it would still allow for somebody talking about the media being asleep at the switch and actual investigative journalism.

Remember when our foreign policy didn't involve Preemptive First Strikes...

Remember when we had it right and our civil liberties were cherished and protected by our leaders...

Remember when our nation stood for all the right things instead of corporate profits...

Remember when we were not afraid to say we were Americans in places like Paris and Bagdhad...

You get my drift, I'm sure. Any how, that is my suggestion, Ilinois (or Indiana or Missouri) Memorial Day, and Remember the US. (I'm feeling kinda like I'm playing Clue here!)


Laura

[JackRiddler]

65. It would be great to see...

Actually DU is HUGE, could easily organize and publicize multiple demonstrations across the country. I have already suggested, without much response:

WHEN: (on or around) Dec. 12, 2003 - Three Years Since the Selection

SPECIFIC THEME: They stole it once - what if they steal it again? We cannot get over the Florida coup because that would mean that crime pays. It will encourage people to try stealing future elections. And guess what, the new voting machines are wide-open to manipulation. We want a guarantee of electoral integrity. All machines, of whatever kind, should produce a voter-verified ballot that goes into a ballot box!

GENERAL THEME: Bush administration has been a disaster - domestic repression, foreign aggression, actions guaranteed to raise the terror threat. And it all started with the disaster of Dec. 12, 2000!

IS IT TOO SOON?

Not for a first event that keeps a simple theme and leaves out the celebrities for now. We could view this as a test of what kind of mobilization DU can get primarily through the DU site - I'm sure we can get thousands of people out there directly.

And don't forget, DU exists because of Coup 2K - so it's like DU's own anniversary.

[CivilRightsNow]

68. I'm doubting DU would organize this

and Im kind of glad of that. I dont nessecarily think this should be a Democrat only event. I think it should be a great platform for voter registrations for dems.. but marginalizing just doesnt sound like the best idea to me.

The more I think about it, the most logical place to have this is NYC. These are the people that the US is bombing the heck out of Iraq to declare "justice" for.

This should be labeled as a Pro-America event. Pro small business, pro free media, anti globalization, pro american workers, pro independece from foreign oil, pro democracy.. etc.

Not in our name seems like a great organization to get behind or actually, in front of this.

My .02

[Neecy]

73. not a bad idea

The weather in the midwest *is* bad during the winter, and perhaps to tie in the date you've selected we should flood into Florida. After all, it's the scene of the crime. And Miami is sort of nice that time of year (although we all know how Democrats are treated in Dade County. Might make it all the more fun).

[JackRiddler]

77. Actually...

I'm thinking for a first event we should try to have it in a bunch of cities... suddenly even if we get 50 in a given place (FREEPER size) it's tied into all the other places... think of it as a presence, rather than a rally... it signs up people and the power is in saying that it's happening simultaneously in a great many places at once... also, one hopes that even a low turnout can find a creative way to raise attention to the issues... PLUS the DUers meet each other in RL, which is a great step forward... joint press releases, joint symbol, simultaneous campaign to contact local media... everyone uses their local contacts... we see how well all the various DU activists in different cities coordinate with each other... it turns into a giant test of the whole organization. The sponsor should be DU, no need to have a new organization. And again, I think what I put up above is a fine consensus position for everyone here.

[CivilRightsNow]

79. I dont see any DU spokespeople jumping at this

....

I've never noticed them start any rallies or whatnot.

Perhaps they will.

I also dont see much hope for musical entertainment if we are going to ask people to align with a specific party, not with an idea.

But arent you worried that you are going to alienate those who could possibly be swing or conversion by having a pro democrat rally only?

Im not down with dilution of the message, but Im also not down with complete marginalization. Alot of people that post here are greens that have no other home and agree with alot of the ideas of the dem party, I'd just like to mention that.

[JackRiddler]

100. well...

if this actually continues and develops into something a few dozen DUers get behind, you probably will (and anyway this post is way done on a young thread).

The "party" part should not be emphasized. No candidate should be endorsed. "Democratic Underground" sounds really cool, and does not automatically make everyone think of the Democratic Party. This should be done by DU groups in cooperation with whatever their contacts are in their city, including anyone who would be anti-Bush as long as it's understood the message should not be diluted. The point is to crack the Bush facade of legitimacy, not to promote the Democrats.

The message(s) should be:

Bush a disaster

Three years since the coup - crime paid!

Less than a year to the election - should they steal it again?!

Demand integrity of the voting process - paper trail must be guaranteed!

Perhaps also this:

$200 million already raised for Bush - what kind of "fair election" is that?

[jonnyblitz]

76. Coporate sponsors for a "leftist rally? That is a good one.

I think some of you at DU are suffering from the delusion that your centrism is somehow "leftist" when you want GOP donors to sponsor your little rally.

[CivilRightsNow]

78. Perhaps "Corporate" wasnt the most perfect word

But there are many companies that could indeed donate. I've listed some that are not "corporate" in another post and am sure I can find a bunch more.

Personally, as a small business owner, I think many small to midsized businesses would give to be featured in a big event like this has the potential of being.

Who pissed in your wheaties this morning?

[blondeatlast]

82. Actually. OP was correct. "Corporate" simply means a body;

of what is based on context.

[Neecy]

85. nice

Our "little" rally? Take your attitude and shove it.

I don't recall anyone wanting to structure a 'leftist' rally. And you should hope that the moderate left-of-center activists get organized before November 2004, because everyone will need to contribute - yes, even pathetic ol' us - if we want to depose Bush. One would think that the broader agenda of election results might be a positive, but that doesn't stop the snotty running commentary in a thread that's really meant for, um, Democrats.

If this is your attitude, enjoy Bush's second term.

[Cheswick2.0]

126. and you are suffering from the delusion that all corporations are GOP

come on, you don't really think that do you?

[salmonhorse]

84. Stage it in Sacramento...

There's a shit pile of cameras already pointed in this direction and will be a simple matter to triangulate between Florida and Wash DC ~

[CivilRightsNow]

86. It would be near impossible to get the permits

Have you been to any protests in SacTown?

Last one I went to had a tank and a 2 cops to 1 protestor ratio.

They also have a group of those eerie people with the cameras and the information awareness jackets on that tape people's faces and catalog them.

I just dunno about that one. It's a thought, though.

[salmonhorse]

88. As a mere 'for instance'...

http://www.newsreview.com/issues/sacto/2003-10-16/news2.asp

Axis of Arnold
Enron e-mails and Bush connections catch up with the Governator

Having positioned himself as the candidate with no ties to special interests, California Governor-elect Arnold Schwarzenegger is now facing disclosures that suggest otherwise. A taxpayer watchdog group just released a series of Enron e-mails (http://consumerwatchdog.org/utilities/pr/pr003708.php3) which indicate Schwarzenegger may have sidestepped the truth about his meeting with Ken Lay during the height of California’s energy crisis. Meanwhile, Schwarzenegger has turned his transition team over to David Dreier, a Washington insider who has opposed campaign-finance reform, taken money from Enron and referred to Bill Clinton as “the Antichrist.”

[grasswire]

87. I believe....

...that first, you ought to write down the purpose of the event, the intended message, and the intended recipient of the message.

If the intent is get middle America involved, then don't start by inviting a list of well-known and demonized lefties to appear.

Why feature celebrities, anyway? Why not make the stars of the event somebody's mother from Hoboken, and somebody's cousin from Denver, and somebody's son from Traverse City?

Make this an event of the people. ELEVATE PEOPLE WHO HAVE MORAL AUTHORITY. Elevate people like the 9-11 widows. Elevate people like Granny D. Elevate some local politicians and representatives. Elevate veterans. Elevate some union folks and some academics!

And for crying out loud don't hold it in the middle of winter.

[grasswire]

89. and...........

....don't call it a POLITICAL event.

Call it a groundswell of American renewal. Something like that.

[grasswire]

93. how about....

....finding some common central cause that nearly anyone can rally behind? Such as "truth in Washington"?

If you find the right strategic cause, then those who oppose your effort will appear to oppose your cause and shoot themselves. Example: who would dare oppose "truth in Washington"?

Or perhaps it should be an "open government" cause.

Or perhaps there could be a short list of several particulars that would have broad appeal.

[CivilRightsNow]

91. But, will you get the chance to preach to anyone outside of the choir

with a line up of these people?

Your post made me definately reevaluate the thought of having actor / actress activists.. but music is universal and a great draw for people of all persuasions. The music could highlight the message. But frankly, I just dont see there being a draw to anyone outside of the "choir" if there werent some other attractions. Not to mention the fact that middle america may not be able to travel from Traverse City, etc. If this was the route then it would probably be best to have lots of mini rallies like someone else suggested all over the US on the same day. But that is a massive undertaking. You are talking about permits and portapotties all over the US and no money generating draws to pay for all those nessecities.

[grasswire]

96. sure!

Music is universal.

But are you trying to draw people to a concert to see celebrities?

Or are you trying to inspire Americans?

Is the purpose the event itself?

Or is it empowering middle Americans to join together and change the land? I submit that hearing from common people is more inspiring than hearing celebrities.

[CivilRightsNow]

98. Well..

Im trying to give the people who are in tune with the ideologies an extra bonus of hearing some great anti war music.

Im trying to give the people who arent in tune with the message but are interested in the music and the idea an extra bonus of hearing the message.

Im trying to inspire both sides of that coin.

The purpose is the same as any other rally. Im not proposing a rock concert formost. But song has been a very powerful tool in past revolution and evolution. Not to mention the fact that this would be a good way to get the younger generations out to hear a message other then faux news and crappy history books. Like it or not, we have to enable the youth to fight this cause.

I do agree that stories from common people are inspiring.. and again, as I said, I think that they would be highlighted by the music. Have them get up on the stage between acts.. have a seperate stage devoted just to speakers with specific causes. Actors and Actresses need not be the focus, that was straying a bit from the intended message. However, I just dont think having a rally with union officials and average americans on a stage is going to do anything outside of preaching to the choir. Im sure it could be effective small scale, Ive been to many small events that were similar. But large scale.. Im just having doubts. Im not an expert. Im just trying to give an opinion as someone from the under 30 crowd.

And again, I challenge you to figure out how to finance events like that coinciding all over the US. Or, even if you are talking about 1 event, how to finance getting all of your speakers in average america there as well as permits and portapotties, flyers, medical booth supplies, etc.

[grasswire]

97. I disagree...

I believe that just as many people would be attracted to an event "of the people" as would be attracted to attend a rally of known lefties. If not more.

There can be music. Lots of music. But there are plenty of lesser-known musicians who could be elevated. Get the musician's unions involved.

As far as the travel issue is concerned, you're never going to get around that. It might be possible for regional events to be organized. If you get union participation and veterans groups involved, you have a huge leg up. They know how to do this kind of thing.

[CivilRightsNow]

104. Hrmmm..

I dont know why it has to be a big "lefties" rally. Nobody in this thread is even advocating that, definately not myself.

Lesser known musicians are generally lesser known for a reason. I do not mean to be offensive. Many of the people on the lists above are far from mainstream.. they are good musicians, but they are political. I think most folks would rather have no music then bad music. Perhaps in that case, you could just play some recordings, I dunno.

I think we are coming at this from two different ways, Im going for a youth, WTO protesting, Shut down SF and average john q, survivor watching, joe schmo laughing, takes alot to get me out from behind the tv during the offtime from my 70 hour work week...american standpoint where I think you are trying to capture a much different audience.

Goodluck :)

[grasswire]

111. in other words....

CivilRightsNow writes: "Im going for a youth, WTO protesting, Shut down SF and average john q, survivor watching, joe schmo laughing, takes alot to get me out from behind the tv during the offtime from my 70 hour work week...american standpoint"

The first of your characterizations is already radicalized. The second is part of Bush's base and probably unreachable.

I'm talking about influencing policy by influencing the swing voters. The 40 percent in the middle, who don't like the direction America is going under Bush but who might still vote for him if they aren't presented something to rally around. Poor whites. The unemployed. Disaffected veterans.

[CivilRightsNow]

113. In honest words

They are not radicals. Good lord, the fuddy duddies and their ideas of radicalization. I suppose anyone who isnt whitebread america is radical.

Those are the swing voters too. They are two sides of the same coin.

Unreachable? Preach on to the choir, man.

Stop this train, I want off.

[JackRiddler]

102. Bravo on all points...

except holding in the middle of winter is a great way to get a first event done. You will see who's really in the organization and who is able to do what. If you want a huge rally in August 2004, you should begin with something like I am describing above in the winter.

ISN'T DECEMBER 12th THE PERFECT DATE?

It has signifance! It's DU's coming-out party!

[linazelle]

105. Nice but no diversity....

I'm not seeing "America" here.

As for corporate sponsors, I think Lipton Tea is a potential donor. They are currently running a commercial featuring the Dixie Chicks. Everybody buy some Lipton Tea! MMMMM

[seventhson]

115. American Style: All White??? Whaaaahhh???

I am really really sorry.

This really pisses me off.

NO FOREIGNERS ALLOWED!!!

ONLY WHITE PEOPLE mentioned as speakers. All european/anglos

then a slam at the people who marched.

I do not know if this was intentionally offensive or just subconsciouly racist-sounding.

For some one using the name of Zapata I would think that your original post would be less eurocetnric and offensive to all those who care (i.e. people of color and immigrants). Almost all of the speakers WERE Americans. Damn.

This pisses me off.

I KNOW Let's not offend WHITE MIDDLE AMERICANS by having people of color speak!!!! Let's have a REAL AMERICAN protest.

Yikes.

Unless you are a Native American you are all illegal immigrants.

[Neecy]

116. again...it's still early

I honestly don't believe that anyone here is planning a 'whites only' protest. If I believed that, I wouldn't be involved in any of these discussions.

This thread just started late yesterday and people are acting like we've already posted a 'whites only' invitation list! I've already mentioned involving the Black and Hispanic Congressional caucuses, and I'm sure that as this evolves we'll have a diverse rally that reflects ALL of the Democratic party. Give it time. I personally don't deem "middle America" to be "white". You act as though that's a racist code word. It isn't. Middle America is as racially diverse as the rest of the country. What the phrase, I think, reflects is that 'middle America' isn't, for the most part, Marxist or socialist but centrist. That's all that I believe is meant here when people use the term.

[diamond14]

117. EARLY... as soon as it rears it's ugly head...is when this crap needs

to be exposed...

Sally Baron, from Hurley Wisconsin (middle American) describes it in one simple word: WHISTLE-ASS

[Neecy]

oh, please

"Exposed"? Spare us the dramatics. You aren't exposing anything but utter foolishness.

[seventhson]

118. It was an all white proposal at the outset

and it sounded anti-immigrant and ethnocentric and even "racist" to my ears.

I have a problem with the ACTION agenda but, goddammit, THEY got the permits, they organized the buses - they arranged for the security and the toilets and the speakers.

They did it better than anyone else did.

If DU were to sponsor an event -- it sure as hell would be a mess. There are so many diruptors on this site you can barely turn around without bumping into one.

That said -- the idea of a broader spectrumed event is NOT a bad one.

The way it was presented in this thread was offensive to me. It seems a lot of folks had the same gut response.

DU is really VERY CONSERVATIVE if so many people flip out about Freeing Mumia.

Same with the issue of Muslims and Arabs and Palestinians.

If that bugs people it is indicative of a serious provincialism and even ethnocentric nationalism that is NOT representative of the left and of pacifists.

It represents a real problem here if folks attack the protesters because they are not "centrist" enough instead of embracing the rage against the machine which is killing people globally.

I get the criticism and I understand it kind of.

The protest was too far left for you. Foreigners speaking about imperialism and colonialism and political prisoners here and abroad turns you and a lot of white folks off. We need to APPEAL to the middle class.

I understand that criticism. America is a nation of white bread cowards.

We need to appeal to them to change things.

I say we need to just get the fucking vote out.

Every breath we have should be to organize to defeat Bush in 2004.

[Neecy]

119. the 'outset' was the original post

And to be honest, I didn't read through the suggested list of attendees. I just did, and I agree this original list does contain a homogenous list of names, so I can see why you'd question it.

I don't believe he mentioned unions, but I don't think that makes him against trade unionism. I think he put together a well-known list of liberals, and yes, most of them are white. It was one post, and I'm sure on reflection he'd modify it to be more inclusive. I'm sure that as time progresses it WILL be more inclusive. But I think it's a little unfair to seize upon the original message as part of some plot to prove racism. He was throwing out an idea to see how much interest there would be, and I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.

[seventhson]

125. "Racism" a misnomer, does NOT need to be proven here.

I am not trying to prove it -- I am trying to expose it - whether it is conscious or unconscious it SEEMED bigoted to me.

The problem is that it was an intentional dis at the marchers and the speakers.

ANSWER and UPJ are a broad based coalition of groups organized by the leadership of Answer and UPJ. These leaders have an agenda.

But the number 1 agenda yesterday was to oppose the war, expose the hypocrisy, and bring our troops home.

As Americans we are really uneducated about issues like colonialism and imperialism. We are uneducated about COINTELPRO and the issues of men like MUMIA who MAY have been set up because he was an activist opposing injustice.

It is important to educate folks about Mumia and the Philipines (hell, that was NOT 100 years ago but the overthrow of the US dictator Marcos was really only a short decade or so ago.

The other thing is that Washington is a huge cosmopolitian city with folks from EVERYWHERE.

In white bread america ("black" or "white"") foreigners get little respect and their issues are NOT important.

But the fact is that the issues of Iraq, Mumia, and the Philipines are part of the holistic view of the problem presented by the corporate control of our country.

Those who oppose it are jailed and framed (Mumia). Those who rebel against it will be oppressed (Phillipines). Those who stand in the way of Wall Street will be invaded and occupied and pillaged (Iraq).

I imagine that those who disparage the voices in Washington because they are not soft enough or appeasing enough are not really in tune or educated about the exctent of the problem globally.

We live in a WORLD where the Bush policies (and American policies) have BRUTAL consequences.

These issues need to be addressed and the CONTEXT of the antiwar movement is a good movement to educate folks in it.

Those who don't get it are either malinformed, miseducated or truly bigotted either consciously or unconsciously.

[Neecy]

131. oh, okay

So, you're 'exposing' racism without giving the original poster the opportunity to discuss this? Nice. Very progressive of you.

It's impossible to prove a negative. Because you FEEL something is racist, it just is and the crime is exposed. The original poster is left unable to defend himself.

I agree that to fully grasp the outrages of this administration you need to have an understanding of American actions throughout the world, not just currently but historically. I certainly don't condone colonialism, imperialism, CIA-sponsored coups or corporate crimes unleashed against other countries. But I don't feel that a thoughful discussion of these issues took place yesterday. 2 minutes to each speaker doesn't allow for that. It was distilled down to anti-American sound bites, f*ck Bush chants and a lot of shrieking and anti-Zionism rhetoric. I don't have a problem with ALL of the speakers. But I cringed, frankly, when the young Phillipino woman vowed unity with the Iraqi Resistance. Yes, she has historical reasons to do so, but this distinction is lost in such a short presentation and the average viewer was probably left wondering why an anti-war rally is vowing solidarity with a group that's killing their sons and daughters. And that's where we're going to lose support in the anti-war cause. And unless we get a majority in this country to actively oppose this war, expect it to continue (and more wars to follow).

[CivilRightsNow]

134. I find it interesting that ANSWER doesnt have a list of..

the speakers at their rally yesterday. Im not asking for alot here....Just a nice little simple list, easily found on their website.

Maybe that could put some things in perspective, if we saw the focus empirically.

[diamond14]

127. many people who helped do NOT belong to ANSWER, but

see an organization that can get things done...and like anyone who has volunteered for community efforts, and just know that it's easier to build on an existing community structure...

in my own case, I have never belonged to ANSWER, but I have no problem with donated my skills to this group of good community people...for this March, I painted over 200 signs just for logistics...signs so that people could get help and go to the right places, signs like: First Aid, Disability Vehicle #3,4,5...Media sign-in, Program sign-in, and Red Cross signs....

while working on signs, I met lots of really good people, including Jewish people, which may surprise some of the people on this thread, those criticizing a March they know nothing about, and did not bother to attend....the Hebrew banners displayed at the March came from Jewish people who care, and BTW, are also Americans....

[qanda]

129. Hoooolllllld UP!!!!

You are just now reading the original post after you responded to me and Amen time and time again, even threatened Amen with alerts? You mean you didn't even know what we were talking about before you responded? That is just wrong!

[Neecy]

132. hold up...oh, okay

I read the bulk of the original message - I didn't go through his list of speakers name by name. I still maintain that to condemn him for a racist act based on that list is childish and an overreaction. None of you are actually interested in this, you're here to disrupt and distract with silly drivel about a 'racist' rally.

And yes, even after reading his list, I still think this is a non-issue. There's not a chance in hell anyone here would participate in an 'all-white' rally and you know it.

I reported the twit because of her intentionally disruptive tactics of posting long photo logs, not because of her fake - and yes, they're fake - accusions that we're planning some kind of a klan rally.

[diamond14]

135. so now you call me a 'twit'.....and claim that my posting of 'middle

American' Marchers in DC is a 'intentionally disruptive tactic'....reality is tough sometimes...photos can help you SEE what's really happening...

and there's nobody here that accused you of "planning some kind of a klan rally"....it's just your own reflection in the mirror...

[Neecy]

140. you are a twit

...and posting an endlessly repetitive series of photos is indeed disruptive.

Perhaps you should reflect on how ashamed you are of 'white people' posting in this subject...it certainly did infer that some kind of racist uprising was being planned here. Total garbage.

[qanda]

139. You are accusing me of something that I did not do.

I never used the word racist. In fact, the word has been used by you more times than anyone else on this thread. My *orignial* post was to point out that the proposed names were all white Americans.

I could scream of racism and bias (stuff I actually know something about), but I prefer to chalk it up as cultural differences and desires. Perhaps you should go back and read my posts so that you can see why I think you are so off base in your criticism of me.

[CivilRightsNow]

133. But why must this be taken completely to an extreme?

The guy just listed what came off the top of his head. He didnt say it was definative. He asked for feedback.


Assume the worst about those fighting for the same cause. That's how we get new people involved.

[Tesha]

136. Call it " We the People "

Have it in every state of the union, or in regional centers, on or near the 4th of July. Call it a Celebration of America, and a return to our committment to Democracy. Advertise it everywhere, get news agencies to cover it well in advance, make it a picnic with all trimmings.

Someone has been trying to hijack our country, and our icons - let's take it back with a big smile, and invite those who've strayed to re-join America.

just a thought...