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slaveplanet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-26-03 10:42 AM
Original message
ANSWER,Clark, Stalinism,Fascism,& the red/brown syndrome
16.       The presence of Ahmed Huber associate Musa at a recent rally against the war in Iraq could be viewed as portending the formation of a Third Position/Yockeyite milieu inside of the anti-war movement. (For more about the Third Positon, see—among other programs—Miscellaneous Archive Shows M19 and M21 (available from Spitfire), as well as FTR#’s 231, 267.) In connection with the burgeoning anti-war movement, it is worth noting that an organization named International ANSWER (an offshoot of the International Action Center) invited Huber associate Musa to participate in a recent antiwar rally in Washington, D.C. Musa led the crowd in a provocative chant that (like much of what the so-called progressive sector is doing these days) plays right into the hands of those who would equate sincere sentiment against war in Iraq with terrorism and treason. Speaking of International ANSWER, the program relates: “It marches with, and stands with, and cheers on, people like the speaker at the Washington rally, Imam Musa of the mosque Masjid al-Islam, who declared ‘the real terrorists have always been the United Snakes of America,’ and then led the crowd in the Islamic bombers’ chant ‘Allahu Akhbar!’” (“Marching with Stalinists” by Michael Kelly; The Washington Post; 1/23/2003; accessed at www.msnbc.com .)
17.       Next, the program reviews some of the background of the IAC, ANSWER and former Attorney General Ramsey Clark, the nominal head of IAC. (For more on Clark, see FTR#350.)“On September 29, 2001, just a few weeks following the September 11 terrorist attack on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon, a large peace rally was held in Washington, D.C., to oppose an American military response to the attack. The main organizer of D.C. rally, ANSWER (Act Now to Stop War & End Racism), was officially established shortly after the 9/11 attack. The leading force behind ANSWER’s creation is the International Action Center (IAC), which represents itself as a progressive organization devoted to peace, justice, and human rights issues. The IAC’s organizational clout is considerable: for the past decade it has played a leading role in organizing protest demonstrations against U.S. military actions against both Iraq and Serbia. After the September 11th attack, the IAC decided to turn its long-organized planned protest against the International Monetary fund and World Bank gathering scheduled for the 29th , into an action opposing any use of U.S. military power in response to terrorism.” (“The International Action Center: ‘Peace Activists’ with a Secret Agenda” by Kevin Coogan; Hit List, November/December 2001; accessed at www.autonomedia.org  .)
18.       “The IAC owes its current success to Ramsey Clark, a former Attorney General during the Johnson Administration, who is listed on the IAC’s Web site as its founder. Clark’s establishment credentials have caused many in the mass media to accept the IAC’s self-portrayal as a group of disinterested humanitarians appalled by war and poverty who are working to turn American foreign policy towards a more humane course. On its Web site the IAC says it was ‘Founded by Ramsey Clark’ and then describes its purpose: ‘Information, Activism, and Resistance to U.S. Militarism, War, and Corporate Greed, Linking with Struggles Against Racism and Oppression within the United States.’” (Idem.)
19.       The IAC has a profound relationship with a Stalinist organization called  the Workers World Party. “Yet since its inception in 1992, the IAC’s actions have given rise to serious doubts about its bona fides as an organization truly committed to peace and human rights issues. Behind the blue door entrance to the IAC’s headquarters on 14th Street in Manhattan can be found deeper shades of red. When one looks closely at the IAC, it becomes impossible to ignore the overwhelming presence of members of an avowedly Marxist-Leninist sect called the Workers World Party (WWP), whose cadre staff virtually all of the IAC’s top positions. Whether or not the IAC is simply a WWP front group remains difficult to say. Nor is there any evidence that Ramsey Clark himself is a WWP member. What does seem undeniable is that without the presence of scores of WWP cadre working inside the IAC, the organization would for all practical purposes cease to exist. Therefore, even if Clark is not a WWP member, he is following a political course that meets with the complete approval of one of the most pro-Stalinist sects ever to emerge from the America far left. . . .” (Idem.)

(Ahmed Huber—a principal figure in Al Taqwa’s operations and an important personage within the European far right as well)

Make sure you know which master you serve. As a democrat, and an American , I cannot support such an organization that appears to have both far left and far right implications.
for more about Ramsey Clark , ANSWER, and the Co-Opting of the Anti war movement go to http://www.spitfirelist.com/f398.html for a text outline

or listen to FTR 398 in real audio @ http://wfmu.org/playlists/dx
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bowens43 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-26-03 10:48 AM
Response to Original message
1. Blah, blah, blah, blah
we've heard it all before.
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Catch22Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-26-03 10:55 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. This is Ramsey Clark
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mike_c Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-26-03 10:53 AM
Response to Original message
2. I, on the other hand, am also an Ameican and I fully support...
...International ANSWER in it's efforts to stop U.S. gunboat foreign policy, and economic and political exploitation. As for their organizational efforts against the invasion and occupation of Iraq, until someone else steps up to the plate like ANSWER has, e.g. NION, they have my full and unqualified respect.
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Rich Hunt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-27-03 06:06 PM
Response to Reply #2
26. not NION either
They are a front group for the RCP which, until recently, condemned homosexuality.

They recanted it but still make ridiculous moral demands of its cadres.

Please, people : familiarize yourself with the concepts of "sectarian cult" and "front group". It has nothing to do with disputes over ideology. These are controlling groups who are an offense to reason, freedom and democracy.

Really, this stuff is Activism 101.
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Terwilliger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-27-03 10:34 PM
Response to Reply #26
49. NION is a front group, eh?
Did you SEE all the people who signed the NION pledge last year? Thosands upon thousands. Very progressive people...lots of liberals and Dems, etc.

So, were they stupid too? Or have you got it wrong?
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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-27-03 10:39 PM
Response to Reply #49
50. They were stupid according to the enlightened ones
Funny isn't it how all these people are suddenly crawling out of the woodwork smearing the two most successful anti-war organizers.

Something stinks big time.

One would think... Naw, couldn't be...

We must just be stupid Leftist retards not to bow down to their wisdom. Glad people like Cynthia McKinney, Barbara Lee, Ron Kovic, Danny Glover, Veterans for Peace and other fringe entities aren't paying attention to this garbage.
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Rich Hunt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-03 10:14 AM
Response to Reply #49
86. they signed the NION pledge
Big deal, I did, too.

I know who the NION people are. They are RCP, which is a cult. If you work with them, they try to sell you their newspaper and read their "revolutionary program" - it is a waste of time.

You and tinoire can go ahead and slander me all you want, but I've been doing anti-war stuff since the first Gulf War.

The fact that both of you are willing to lie and smear an activist speaks volumes about your capacity for denial.

Front groups have wrecked coalitions that took hours and weeks and months to build. They drive people away by trying to subordinate everyone to their agenda.

But I guess you two just show up to protests, and don't do any of the dirty work. That sort of thing is left to the proles and women who get pushed around.
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Terwilliger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-03 10:24 AM
Response to Reply #86
91. well, I've still seen no evidence of your concerns
I've never heard any of these things mentioned, and YOU'RE the one slamming them...so...

What conclusion should I reach?

Would you rather that we had all stayed home and had no march at all? I mean, really, if we don't want to ally ourselves with groups we don't like or have some disagreement with, what CHANCE do you think of having a protest any larger than 100 people?
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Rich Hunt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-03 10:32 AM
Response to Reply #91
94. I've gone to ANSWER-sponsored marches
Edited on Tue Oct-28-03 10:34 AM by dymaxia
...I just think you should know that there are loads of people working their butts off in every city, where very often ANSWER is nowhere in sight.

They just seem to put the call out and man the phones. They should not take credit for work that lots of other people do.

Also, if you want to know about ANSWER or NION, the RCP or the WWP, all you have to do is do some searching on the web.

All of this is common knowledge among activists. These people are opportunists. Something goes wrong, and they just show up at meetings and events that other people have organized.
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Jim Sagle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-26-03 11:00 AM
Response to Original message
4. Great article. Don't let the detractors get you down.
:yourock:
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G_j Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-26-03 11:20 AM
Response to Original message
5. ok, now that you've given us this
on ANSWER, could you tell us what and who FTR is? There is no link I could find to a home page or explanation. thank you in advance.
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slaveplanet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-26-03 08:26 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. Just go to the base
Of the link, www.spitfirelist.com (FTR) For the Record Is the weekly radio file of Anti-fascist researcher Dave Emory(KKUP-bayarea). Current events and movements of the Fascists are exposed and put into context with past events. This greatly helps the uninitiated. His work is based heavily on the Paul Manning's theory that Martin Bormann escaped death and found refuge in South America, where he setup and contolled a virtual covert reich, through the funnelling of Nazi flight capital into 750 different corporations in various countries.According to Dave the torch has been passed to a younger more virulent strain of minnions. His latest work revolves around the central point that 9/11 is a continuation of WW2, and goes in great depth to expose the machinations of the underground reich, and how the current regime(the engineer) intends to wreck the train(USA), and usher in the world wide fascist stranglehold(NWO).
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WoodrowFan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-27-03 08:37 AM
Response to Reply #6
13. you must be joking.
Edited on Mon Oct-27-03 08:38 AM by WoodrowFan
That may be the wierdest thing I have ever heard in my life. :tinfoilhat: (The Nazi stuff that is, I agree with you about ANSWER.)
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slaveplanet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-27-03 05:40 PM
Response to Reply #13
22. It is no Joke
Follow the Money......Dave is No rookie at this.....He has been on air since the early 80's
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WoodrowFan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-03 07:10 AM
Response to Reply #22
73. He's benn on Since the 80s.
Im not sure what Dave has "been on" but apparently it's nOT his meds. sheesh.,
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-03 07:27 AM
Response to Reply #73
75. Deleted message
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WoodrowFan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-03 10:53 AM
Response to Reply #75
97. hell, that left 10 hours 50 minutes
after it was clear the man is a nut job., sorry, but even with footnotes a nutjob is a nutjob (see Annthrax Coulter)
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jonnyblitz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-26-03 08:30 PM
Response to Original message
7. yup...I was on an ANSWER bus yesterday and we were plotting
Edited on Sun Oct-26-03 08:30 PM by jonnyblitz
and planning a Stalinist take over for sure!! stand by.... :crazy:
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JohnKleeb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-27-03 08:39 AM
Response to Reply #7
14. Glorious Comrade Stalin
:D lol.
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diamond14 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-03 12:48 AM
Response to Reply #7
66. you must have been with this group of extreme Stalinists....
Edited on Tue Oct-28-03 12:52 AM by amen1234

clearly dangerous wackos, plotting to implement communism in America...their sign is obviously subversive, and you should notify asscroft ASAP:

their sign says....
"Military Families and Veterans say BRING OUR TROOPS HOME NOW!"

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diamond14 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-03 01:32 AM
Response to Reply #7
68. or these guys (pic)....look like dangerous subversives to me....
Edited on Tue Oct-28-03 01:36 AM by amen1234


how much more dangerous and fanatical can you get....just LOOK at their signs which say "Veterans for Peace" and "Military Veterans and Their Families say BRING OUR TROOPS HOME NOW!' and 'War is NOT the ANSWER' (with a white dove on it too...a DOVE !!, what horror!!!!)
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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-26-03 08:36 PM
Response to Original message
8. Interesting post.
Edited on Sun Oct-26-03 08:37 PM by Tinoire
Were the other 145 were just as illuminating?

Btw, I love that picture of Jesus playing baseball on their home page!

Real... classy and progressive.



I think I'll stick with ANSWER.
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slaveplanet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-26-03 09:06 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. nice try
Edited on Sun Oct-26-03 09:12 PM by slaveplanet
Emory broadcasts out of KKUP not WFMU...the files are free to any broadcaster that wants to disseminate them. Any Implying that WFMU is some kind of religious organization exposes you an Ignoramus.

maybe these will provide illumination:

http://www.kkup.com/about.html

http://www.wfmu.org/freeform.html
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Terwilliger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-26-03 09:19 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. how can that picture be taken any other way?
these are probably eschatologists who are doing their best to bring about the Rapture
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slaveplanet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-26-03 09:34 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. Right
Edited on Sun Oct-26-03 09:56 PM by slaveplanet
you make so much sense///

Freeform Radio: An approach to radio programming in which a station's management gives the DJ complete control over program content. Freeform shows are as different as the personalities of DJ's, but they share a feeling of spontaneity, a tendency to play music that is not usually heard. Their ideology tends to be liberal or radical, though their program content is not usually overtly political. Many DJ's mix diverse musical styles, engage in monologues between music sets and/or accept callers on the air. The only rules that free-form DJ's are bound by are FCC regulations such as station identification and restrictions on foul language.

WHAT IS WFMU?

WFMU-FM is a non-commercial, freeform radio station broadcasting at 91.1 Mhz FM in Jersey City, NJ, right across the Hudson from lower Manhattan. We were formerly on the campus of Upsala College, in East Orange, NJ, but relocated in 1998, having procured our independence in 1994 from the college. We have a relay station, WXHD, 90.1 Mhz FM, broadcasting in the Hudson Valley, Lower Catskills, Western New Jersey and Eastern Pennsylvania. We also have a website with extensive info and links at www.wfmu.org.

WHO FUNDS WFMU?

WFMU receives absolutely no corporate or government funding--we are 100% funded by our listeners through our annual on-air fundraising marathon as well as a twice-yearly record fair in Manhattan that occurs in May and November, info for which can be found linked to our website at www.wfmu.org/recfair/.
Shortly before the closing of Upsala College on May 31, 1995, WFMU purchased the license from them, and is now fully independent. This meant a whole new layer of ghastly new expenses, but it also meant great new opportunities for high media subversion. WFMU's license is now owned by Auricle Communications, a non-profit group made up of current and former WFMU staff members and listeners

DOES WFMU TAKE UNDERWRITING ANNOUNCEMENTS?

Nope.



Go ahead ...try again....Double dare ya!

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Terwilliger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-27-03 10:24 AM
Response to Reply #11
17. sorry, this doesn't work
so the main page with the big picture of Jesus doesn't mean anything?

Riiiiight.

I think you should go back to your hatreds and leave everyone else alone.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-27-03 05:26 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. Deleted message
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-27-03 10:30 PM
Response to Reply #20
48. Deleted message
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slaveplanet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-27-03 11:01 PM
Response to Reply #48
57. spare me -
I lived in the Bay area for many years...Calling DE a Zionist is poppycock plain and simple....Refer to his Israel and Mossad rants.....why don't you share your thoughts about KKUP....
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slaveplanet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-03 07:01 AM
Response to Reply #48
71. Oh you must mean this Pacifica
Edited on Tue Oct-28-03 08:00 AM by slaveplanet
RULE BY IDIOCY: WBAI FALLS FOR RIGHT-WING CONSPIRACY THEORY!

Rule by Secrecy: The Hidden History That Connects the Trilateral Commission, the Freemasons, and the Great Pyramids. The title itself reads like a self-parody. The fact that it is not is a sad comment on our times. The fact that HarperCollins chose to publish this amateurish potboiler is even sadder. But saddest of all is that it was offered as a premium in the last fund-raising marathon by New York City’s “progressive” WBAI Radio.


WBAI is a pacifica station....am I wrong?

seems ANSWER may not be the only one with monkey business going on?

great bastions of progressivism- Huh



The sneak attack against WBAI-FM by its parent Pacifica Foundation did not
happen suddenly. The gradual take-over by corporate and Democratic Party
infiltrators happened over a period of some years, leading some to wonder
just why the radio network staff, volunteers and local advisory boards
never noticed what was going on. Perhaps they were so delighted just to get
their stuff on the air without censorship that they figured free speech was
all they needed.
http://nyfma.tao.ca/nyfma02681.html


I used to love to listen to Emmit Powell when I lived in the Bay Area,


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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-27-03 10:42 PM
Response to Reply #20
52. WFMU the KPFA of the East Coast? Bwahahaa!
Edited on Mon Oct-27-03 10:46 PM by Tinoire
Please... go find some other planet to live on. The one where you're living has bad air! Must be the fault of the Marxists or something!

The rest of your assertions are more garbage... Did I, little moi, even mention the name of Dave Emory? Ah the ignorant air on, what planet is that again oh ye with the mighty smear posts?

For your edification, KPFA doesn't host hate-mongerers like that charming JDL founder or people ranting about the Palestinians between every other song. Nor do they have a fixation on Nazis behind every corner or Islamofascists!



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slaveplanet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-27-03 11:47 PM
Response to Reply #52
65. Yaaawn-64 posts and
not one reply , disputing the roles contained in the article itself.

I'm growing tired...goodnight all
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uhhuh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-03 02:06 AM
Response to Reply #11
69. Auricle Communications
Not for Profit:

Founded in 1997 by Mark Riva, Auricle Communications is a private, For Profit(emphasis mine), music media research and education thinktank seeking to catalyze new collaborative, multi-disciplinary projects that break down the barriers between traditional disciplines and mediums, and to spread its ideas and methodologies throughout the world and encourage the practical applications of its results. In our activities, we serve as a bridge between scholarship and commerce, bringing new knowledge to media enterprises in the third millennium.

Auricle Communications can be best described as specialists in music-based multimedia systems. Our primary output is knowledge-intensive services characterized by proprietary, branded conceptual content or form. This production is cultivated through a holistic approach that synthesizes diverse intelligence into a larger whole. The predominate point of convergence is particularly in the domain of infotainment programming; a new media application operating at the crossroads of information and entertainment. Auricle Communications' mission is to drive the discovery of new product/services that create closer links between these two complimentary media formulas.

Through trend analysis and ideation, we focus on identifying unknown and unmet market needs and matching them to product possibilities through an approach that is part art and part science. It is a process that requires an in-depth understanding of the way people live, learn and work coupled with an new vision of how music media can be exploited and applied.

The question of values is crucial to our mission; they are, in fact, the central defining characteristic. It is generally not recognized that values are not peripheral to music media and ultimately aural culture but constitute its very basis and driving force. Our output, including our monthly electrozine, emerges out of an entire constellation of human perceptions, values, and actions - in one word, out of a paradigm - from which they cannot be separated.

^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^

http://skylined.org/mirrors/auricle/about.html

What other crap you've posted can be relied on?
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slaveplanet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-03 07:08 AM
Response to Reply #69
72. Are you prepared to back this Up?
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slaveplanet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-03 03:02 PM
Response to Reply #69
98. Strike One -wrong auricle
try again with more of your refuse
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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-27-03 09:57 AM
Response to Reply #9
15. Please WFMU is a religious Zionist program hence the Jesus photo
Edited on Mon Oct-27-03 10:10 AM by Tinoire
for the Christian Right. So please- you are embarrassing yourself in your zeal to defame ANSWER and donwplay the agenda behind this!! http://www.jmintheam.org/pages/staff.htm

The main reason ANSWER is being smeared like this is for giving a platform to the Palestinian cause and associating with the likes of Cynthia McKinney.

WFMU is some Orthodox Rabbi's show for the Orthodox community who:

"ends every show with the melody of Hatikvah, the Israeli national anthem, and intones: "Our brothers and sisters in Israel, we are with you." "

Mr. Segal, ((later described in this article as an "ardent Zionist"))who is 37, acknowledges that he is right of center on Israeli politics; for example, he is not sympathetic to Prime Minister Ehud Barak's latest peace initiatives. But he added, "My politics are very typical of the young Orthodox person today."

<snip>

One frequent guest is Malcolm Hoenlein <snip // thank you- well, well aware of who Malcolm Hoenlein is!))

In recent months, Mr. Hoenlein appeared on the show to discuss the Camp David summit that failed to produce an agreement between Israel and the Palestinians and to discuss the selection of Senator Joseph I. Lieberman as the Democratic vice presidential candidate.

http://www.jmintheam.org/pages/nachumnyt.htm

You will never sell me as progressive some radio station that hosted the likes of a vile reptile like Meir Kahane, founder of the JDL who the Israeli government had to ban from running from the Knesset for "incitment to racism." :
http://www.shmais.com/gordondetail.cfm?ID=19
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slaveplanet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-27-03 05:36 PM
Response to Reply #15
21. U H Hu
so KKUP where the show originates....(WFMU is only the rebroadcaster) has a gif of Gerry Garcia playing a SAX


KKUP Has Newage Programmers ...are we to deduce then ...by your lame accociation that DE is a New Ager and a Zionist at the same time ....Give me a break....
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-27-03 05:56 PM
Response to Reply #15
23. Deleted message
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-27-03 06:02 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. Deleted message
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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-27-03 08:52 PM
Response to Reply #23
44. Wow- You're turning out to be a real work of art.
:eyes:

Please ok? I used to live on the East coast- I know the progressive stations out there and I don't consider any station that starts the day with the very right-wing "JM In The AM" playing Orthodox Jewish pop in between screeds about how nasty the Palestinians are as very progressive.

You call progressive a radio station that hosted Rabbi Meir Kahane who advocated killing Arabs and was such an inciter of hate that to this day his movement is outlawed in the US and in Israel?

Forgive me if I can't or if I refuse to call the type of swill about "Islamofascists" that they want passed around as very progressive.

I don't care how progressive some of their music might be or some of their shows might lean. Mein Jihad—Islamofascism and Geopolitics???! http://www.spitfirelist.com/f340.html

You're going to have to do much better than that!~

This is about your 10th hysterical post of the day when you include the ones about "red-baiting" on the ANSWER thread and why the Left should immediately cut of groups like ANSWER and Not In Our Name. Sheesh.

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thebigidea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-03 07:30 AM
Response to Reply #44
76. they may have this guy on
Edited on Tue Oct-28-03 07:42 AM by thebigidea
but WFMU is a great station otherwise and tolerated my silliness for years.

Any Jesus pic they'd have online would be a joke, they are very much into kitsch.

Any station that plays the SubGenius "HOUR OF SLACK" is hardly the enemy.

And they are certainly not Religious Zionists!

These ANSWER-bashers and boys who cried "STALIN!" are a real pain, but don't paint all of WFMU with the same brush... like all college radio, some of it is crap... but the good shows balance it out.
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slaveplanet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-03 07:42 AM
Response to Reply #76
78. as evidenced
what they have posted today...OH NO beware of the SWAMI record muncher! yeeeks
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thebigidea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-03 07:43 AM
Response to Reply #78
79. has it occured to you that Emory is on because of that same love of kitsch
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slaveplanet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-03 07:50 AM
Response to Reply #79
80. YES
Edited on Tue Oct-28-03 08:09 AM by slaveplanet
I've been listening to Dave since his KFJC days...

don't you find it interesting no-one wants to take on the references tho....


PS...I LUUUUve "Hour of slack" talk about Kitch...superb
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thebigidea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-03 07:53 AM
Response to Reply #80
81. no, I don't find it interesting
Edited on Tue Oct-28-03 07:59 AM by thebigidea
I find the whole attack-ANSWER thing pretty contemptible.

I don't care if its STALIN himself leading the charge - there are more important things to worry about... DICK CHENEY AND GEORGE BUSH!

I'm not defending this swill, I'm saying a few words on behalf of my beloved WFMU - if only for their fabulous record fairs...
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slaveplanet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-03 08:21 AM
Response to Reply #81
82. Loftus, Manning, Coogan
all swill huh?

Well let me , let you in on something

There wouldn't need to be threads(swill) like this

If ANSWER didn't give me swill like this...

‘the real terrorists have always been the United Snakes of America,’ and then led thecrowd in the Islamic bombers’ chant ‘Allahu Akhbar!’
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thebigidea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-03 08:27 AM
Response to Reply #82
83. The real terrorists ARE the USA
Edited on Tue Oct-28-03 08:30 AM by thebigidea
interesting that he'd use the Firesign Theatre's old "United Snakes" line, though.

I find it pretty sad to be going after ANSWER instead of Bush.
Let me know when ANSWER starts killing people, enslaving nations, and giving sweetheart deals to Halliburton. Then I'll hop on your bandwagon. Till then, sights are on the Cheney/Bush bunch.
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slaveplanet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-03 08:40 AM
Response to Reply #83
84. Hey-I'm all with ya
By the way ...the "unitedsnakes" is a direct IMAM MUSA quote at an Answer sponsored rally....But I heartily agree the real sights are BUSH/CHENEY , Dave agrees, and If the message was more appealing to draw a broader audience..we just may have a chance
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thebigidea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-03 08:42 AM
Response to Reply #84
85. no, the "United Snakes" is from a Firesign Theatre album, late 60s
Maybe the speaker was a big fan?

"and If the message was more appealing to draw a broader audience..we just may have a chance"

And you're saying that Dave Emory has this appeal? Is he any one to talk about mass acceptance?

Get back to the real problem: Cheney/Bush.

Newsflash: Stalin still long dead. Ressurection seems unlikely at this point.
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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-03 10:47 AM
Response to Reply #81
96. Thanks for your input. It sheds a different light
I know KFMU has some terrific music and shows but they've also got that really bad one in the morning and that poster is doing nothing to put them in a better light. Thanks.
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slaveplanet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-03 04:06 PM
Response to Reply #96
99. There wouldn't have been any Illummination
Problem had you dealt with the article , it's references, and the context of the associations. Or are you one of those that only use association when it serves you , such as BBV, say Lay and Arnie in secret meeting ....

instead you chose to jump to conclusions, attack an unrelated website from the origination. Much like you do when you reference this http://www.spitfirelist.com/f340.html
in your post #44

Emory clearly states his position regarding Israel and it's social classes in the first 5 minutes......OOOH Beware of the Evil ZIONIST.....


and as for Cynthia Mckinney....Here's a newsflash....her info she came out with was due in Large part to a Right wing Pop conspiracy theorist named Alex Jones. I'm not pulling your leg.
http://infowars.com/listen.html. It should be rebroadcast tonight
9:30-9:45 CST should be the reference time when he mentions her. Or there are archives if you want pay, but I think it's a whole month. Don't know much about him...but a friend told me to listen
and sure'nuff it's the democrat Cynthia Mckinney we all know and love.

strange bedfellows..he seems to be the guy who rebuilt the Waco church.

there is also a couple interviews with Bev Harris and one with Ann Coulter that looks interesting.
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Kahuna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-27-03 08:34 AM
Response to Original message
12. DELETED
Edited on Mon Oct-27-03 08:35 AM by Kahuna
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DealsGapRider Donating Member (650 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-27-03 10:08 AM
Response to Original message
16. Jesus.
n/t
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not systems Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-27-03 10:49 AM
Response to Original message
18. Which master you serve. Who is David Emory?
Edited on Mon Oct-27-03 10:51 AM by ezmojason
I have listened to many of the David Emory FTR shows.

Basicly David thinks that nazis form an "under ground reich"
that works to control the world.

They are sneaky and work with basicly everyone David doesn't like.

Going back over his archives you will hear the most far fetched
crap about Sadam's WMD programs which David thought was very real.

Some of the "best" segments deal with his ideas about the
French and Germans who he believe work endlessly to undermine
the US to aid the "under ground reich" in the war against
England, USA, and Israel.

Mr. slaveplanet I suggest you be a little more sceptical about FTR.
I find many of his stories interesting but he has been plain wrong
about many things and always has something bad to say about the left.
Who like ANSWER he believes to be in league with the "under ground reich"

Please turn up your tin foil one more notch and realize that
David Emory may be just a piece of the "control grid".

:tinfoilhat:
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Terwilliger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-27-03 10:51 AM
Response to Reply #18
19. you hit it
Some of the "best" segments deal with his ideas about the
French and Germans who he believe work endlessly to undermine
the US to aid the "under ground reich" in the war against
England, USA, and Israel.


The US, England, and Israel...if Emory is about supporting this particular triad, there's no wonder he doesn't like A.N.S.W.E.R.
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slaveplanet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-27-03 06:13 PM
Response to Reply #19
27. I never heard him
//The US, England, and Israel...if Emory is about supporting this particular triad, there's no wonder he doesn't like A.N.S.W.E.R.//


express support for any triad...He is a documentarian...you sould listen some time you may learn something
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slaveplanet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-27-03 05:58 PM
Response to Reply #18
24. Believe me
Edited on Mon Oct-27-03 06:39 PM by slaveplanet
By no means is Dave right about everything- He emphaticly states , that it is an extremely complex working Hypothesis. He is the first to admit his gaffes when he is steered the wrong direction....a good example is his interview with KOME about Gordon Novell...where basically Gordon Novell proved his case ...See watergate revisited.

as with all working Hypothesis they need adjustment from time to time.

I do feel about 85-90% of what he has researched is accurate.
and Is one of the most complex in trying to untangle the Web...That now seems so apparent to most of us whom haven't been sleeping.

//Going back over his archives you will hear the most far fetched
crap about Sadam's WMD programs which David thought was very real.//

Do personally know for a fact these haven't been uncovered...If the Bushistast rolled these out for an OCTOBER suprise. next year, would that help.

I would still listen to what you had to say....because I don't throw the baby out .....we'll you know how it goes....
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not systems Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-27-03 06:13 PM
Response to Reply #24
28. He is very interesting...
no doubt about it.

I don't take it at face value he seems to be a
conduit for information as well as disinformation.

It has been said that to spread disinformation well
it must be laced with the truth.

I have no way to tell the difference in his output
except for looking back at what he said and when.

He was a big boster for the Iraq war.

Why?

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slaveplanet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-27-03 06:21 PM
Response to Reply #28
29. Please do
//He was a big boster for the Iraq war.
Why?//

send me reference for this and I'll be glad to give my opinion
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not systems Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-27-03 06:27 PM
Response to Reply #29
30. I will track it down.
Edited on Mon Oct-27-03 06:28 PM by ezmojason
I was listening to dozens of his programs so give me some time.

It may take me more that a day or two.

Take care Mr slaveplanet.


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slaveplanet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-27-03 06:32 PM
Response to Reply #30
31. thanks
I think I know why he may have taken that position, but I need to see it in context....Take care yourself!
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not systems Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-27-03 10:55 PM
Response to Reply #31
55. "McCarthyite tactics are typical of Emory."
Found on google from news group postings.

From end of text-

"McCarthyite tactics are typical of Emory. His smears must be
stopped before more reputations are decimated at the expense
of all who care to know the truth about the workings of
federal intelligence groups and world fascism."

What do you make of it?


Dave Emory's Politics of Acrimony

By Alex Constantine


I know you're on bended knee waiting for me to hand you down
the truth." - Dave Emory KPFK-FM, Los Angeles May 10, 1990


Every Thursday morning at midnight, the Superman theme song
rises and ebbs behind the euphonic voice of "Something's
Happening" host Roy Tuckman. The program airs over
Pacifica's KPFK-FM in Los Angeles, an alternative, Tuckman
boasts, to the claustrophobic conservatism of
corporate-sponsored talk radio. "Something's Happening"
attempts to expose organized corruptions of government, and
Tuckman is a passionate political voice. But his attempt to
provide an alternative is marred by his choice of
programming: Dave Emory, originating from KFJC-FM in Los
Altos Hills, has bullied and slandered his way to late-night
radio talk show prominence, splintering the reputations of
his fellow political researchers and reporters to advance
his own. More serious are the allegations of C. (name
withheld upon request, co-host of a political affairs radio
program in the Santa Clara area), that Emory, in a
late-night telephone call, filled her ears with graphic
descriptions of sexual violence. She had been for several
years his friend and an outspoken supporter. They were both
students and allies of late political researcher Mae
Brussell. C. was severely rattled by Emory's threats of
sexual mutilation. Emory, in response to a direct
confrontation with her, did not deny that he phoned her, but
did claim he had no recollection of the episode. If so,
perhaps he also has no recollection that he later phoned one
of C.'s radio station co-workers to ask if she had repeated
anything Emory told her. The co-worker slammed down the
phone. I informed Tuckman of the incident in a letter on
June 6, 1991, and suggested that he call C. for
confirmation.

Tuckman ignored the letter. Martin Cannon, author of The
Controllers, a study of the classified federal mind control
initiative and its masquerade as alien abduction phenomena,
also informed Tuckman of the harassing phone call. He told
Tuckman that Emory had said "monstrous and violent things"
to her. Cannon's letter was also snubbed. Barbara Honneger,
a political investigator living in Monterey, stated in a
letter to Emory: "No radio station should keep you on the
air if this continues, and no radio station should keep its
license which keeps you on the air if this continues." I
share Honegger's revulsion.


Dave Emory's mentor, Mae Brussell, was a courageous
investigator of political assassinations, a tenacious critic
of government. She inspired a modest but devoted audience to
probe the American far-right and its pernicious influences.
Among the researchers who worked with Brussell and
posthumously expanded upon her foundation of political
research were Honegger, John Judge, Emory's former co-host
Nip Tuck, and Will Robinson & Marilyn Colman, hosts of
KAZU's "Lighthouse Report." All were staples of Tuckman's
program. Emory's past is seldom discussed. His father,
writes Paul Bernardino, host of a cable television program
in San Francisco, "committed him to an institution and
narcotics program 20 years ago. Emory has told several
people, including Tom Davis (a northern California book
retailer) that he was sexually abused in a prison in Boston.
He has attempted suicide several times via cars and
narcotics. His emotional problems drove him to overdose on
narcotics in a 1988 suicide attempt."

This was the year that Mae Brussell fell prey to cancer.
Emory, her self-appointed successor, began a series of
vincictive slander campaigns to purge other researchers from
the air. His first straw man was Nip Tuck (an alias, today a
very popular science fiction writer), Emory's co-host on
"Radio Free America" for several years. Tuck was publicly
denounced as an "agent" of an unnamed arm of government.
This smear was based on the slimmest of "ties": Tuck once
taught English at a military base. This alone rendered him
suspect in Emory's mind - yet he later acknowledged to a
Christic Institute activist that he'd known of Tuck's
background all along. That Tuck was a lackey of the
intelligence sector was repeated on KPFK, unsubstantiated
but delivered as bald fact. The victim of this smear
vigorously denied the allegation in a letter to KPFK. The
station ignored it. Tuck found himself groundlessly
discredited, humiliated, his written denial censored -
despite the fact that over the years his conspiracy research
had grossed tens of thousands of dollars for
publicly-supported KPFK. Emory's next victim was John Judge,
a popular prot=E9g=E9 of Mae Brussell. Abuse heaped upon Judge,
says Bernardino, was the result of "personal jealousy," an
opinion I share. So does Jonathon Vankin, a former staff
reporter for the San Jose Metro, in Conspiracies, Cover-Ups
and Crimes:

Judge had managed to get himself some lecture bookings and
onto radio talk shows. According to Tom Davis, a long-time
friend of Brussell's whose mail-order book service is one of
the best sources for political books, Judge and Emory had
been competing for radio kudos since at least 1984.

Moreover, Brussell appointed Judge, not Emory, to the
position of curator/archivist. Excluded from plans for the
library bequeathed to Judge, Emory lashed out. Personal and
professional envy was the foundation of his belief that
Judge was an "intelligence agent" and a "Nazi murderer" with
"ties" to the Manson Family. The charges have never been
retracted. Emory opened his fusillade at Judge in a
November, 1989 blast on KFJC. He announced with an imperious
air, "There's a bit of unpleasantness I'm going to have to
take care of...." The Mae Brussell archives were being
catalogued and organized. It was not ready to open to the
public. Emory set out to destroy it and its curator, John
Judge, before the doors could open. "One of the things I
wondered about," Emory declared, "in the creation of the Mae
Brussell Research Center, was how long it would take the
intelligence community to gain effective control of that
center." In fact, the directing board was composed of
friends and associates of Mae Brussell. Nevertheless, he
arrived at the conclusion that it had been overrun by the
CIA: "There is an intelligence presence at the Center now
that is so massive as to render the whole thing little more
than an intelligence front." He produced no evidence to
support this startling allegation. He remained vague. "There
is a very sinister presence," he charged, "there are
elements affiliated with Aryan Nations." The "sinister
elements" were phantoms: Emory had learned that Judge once
delivered a talk at a Santa Monica debating club owned by a
right-wing extremist, a connection too weak to support such
serious allegations. Hammering together a guillotine with a
post of smears and planks of innuendo, Emory claimed that
there were "indications of serious financial impropiety" at
the center. What's more, "there are indications that have
yet to be finalized that the whole thing has disintegrated
into nothing more than a great big criminal enterprise." A
devastating revelation - and no "finalized indications" to
back it up. In fact, the financial impropiety he spoke of
largely amounted to nothing more than Judge spending money
he'd raised himself for the Mae Brussell Research Center. He
spent some of the proceeds from his own fund-raising tour on
meals, though there is some truth to the charge that a
portion of the funds were misspent. According to Robinson, a
director of the Center, Judge did nothing criminal. Yet
Emory carried on as though he had information too explosive
to air publicly - "investigative tributaries," he said - and
had no qualms about divulging the results of his
"investigation." Emory's carving knife sank into the
Center's finances. "Under no circumstances would I recommend
that people have anything to do with the Mae Brussell
Center," Emory said. He insisted that all supporters demand
back their contributions, repeating there was "a strong
intelligence presence there." Who? "You might as well send
your name to Langley or to Tom Metzger so he can put it in
the Aryan Nations Liberty Net," he said. The intelligence
"presence" was "specifically Nazi-linked." A week later, the
charges were repeated in a telephone conversation with Roy
Tuckman in North Hollywood.

This time, Emory claimed that John Judge was a "murderer."
As always, he didn't trifle with evidence, simply stated
that there were more "investigative leads" that bookish,
soft-spoken John Judge had committed murder. Unfortunately,
to this day, only Emory knows anything about it. The
allegations grew more and more fantastic. On Tuckman's May
10, 1990 program, he charged that Judge and the Mae Brussell
Center were an extension of the ultra-right Western Goals
operation, an industrially-sponsored covert operations group
responsible for much havoc in underdeveloped countries. A
week earlier the Center had been allied with Aryan Nations.
Now it was Western Goals.

"Beyond that," he told Tuckman, "there are two evidentiary
tributaries leading in the direction of the Manson Family."
Now it was Manson. But what were the "tributaries" that so
alarmed Emory he was moved to denounce Judge and the
Brussell archives? The "evidentiary" links, he said, forced
him to ask "very, very serious questions about the Center."
He let on, as though divulging a dark secret, that Judge had
ties to "several murders in the Carmel area." He has never
stooped to explain his meaning. "I'm not accusing any
individual," Emory said, incredibly, "but there are serious
questions implicating individuals - including and especially
John Judge." He again suggested that supporters of the
library sever all contact and demand a refund. Listeners,
believing that Emory's vagaries must have some foundation,
withdrew support for the center. It collapsed. Judge sent a
strong letter of denial to Tuckman. Like the others, it was
ignored. Judge, once a favorite of the program, was publicly
humiliated and drummed off the air. In 1992 Judge denied, in
a Santa Cruz newspaper, that there was any substance to the
charges. He said that he'd been "hounded out of Brussell Research Center] by this kind of nonsense." In the
same story, Dave Ratcliffe, a Center director, laughed at
the notion that it had any connection to the government,
extremist groups or satanic cults. He chalked up the
allegations to "Dave Emory loving to spin very detailed,
wonderful sounding scenarios that are of his own invention."
Vankin's view was that "whatever the objective reality of
the Mae Brussell Center controversy, the version that
navigates Dave Emory's brain is another of his many
traumas."

Emory's attacks on Paul Bernardino, a political researcher
and AIDS activist in San Francisco, culminated shortly after
the fall of John Judge. In January, 1989, Bernardino
received a call at 2:00 a.m. from an enraged Dave Emory. "I
hope all you faggots drop dead with AIDS," he snarled. Like
Upton Sinclair with a reeking slaughterhouse in his sights,
Emory went on to blast Sara Diamond, formerly of KPFA-FM in
Berkeley and an Emory critic, for carrying on a hidden life
as "a CIA agent" and "a whore who gives cheap blow jobs." On
the air, Emory accused Bernardino of taping an unauthorized
tribute to Mae Brussell for his television program. Emory,
Bernardino wrote in a public denial, "was too lazy to simply
pick up his phone to do some checking before impulsively
mouthing off." As it happened, permission for the taping was
granted by Brussell's daughter. Bernardino protested Emory's
"slandering, wilfully and maliciously maligning my ... name
and character." Once informed that he'd erred, Emory refused
to retract or apologize. Instead, he claimed that Bernardino
was fronting for "the Gay Mafia." He referred to Bernardino
as "a homo from Mexico" and "a CIA agent." He further
charged that Bernardino had far-right political connections.
"Such dangerous, mud-slinging lies," Bernardino lamented. He
voiced an opinion that radio personalities have an
obligation to "keep their personal vendettas, mud-slinging,
unfounded hate, spite and personal attacks off the air." Pat
Carey, a volunteer working for Bernardino, supported him in
a letter to KFJC dated May 22, 1991. Emory, she wrote,
"claims quite falsely that Bernardino had called for a
boycott of his program, which is absolutely not true. He
also claims that our cable TV program on Channel 25 in San
Francisco ... started from Aryan Nations, which is an
outright lie, a fabrication." She demanded equal time to
refute these "lies." Her ire was echoed by Brette McCabe,
hostess of the television program, who noted the "purposeful
cruelty" in the public condemnation of Paul Bernardino.
Despite these protests, Emory continued to tell stretchers
on the air about well-intentioned political conspiracy
programmers. Pam Burton, a KPFK programmer substituting for
Roy Tuckman one week, refused to play "Radio Free America" -
she thought it laden with self-importance. "I see radios
going off all over town," she grumbled off the air. Emory
learned that he'd been pulled and branded her "a CIA agent."
(Critics must be federal intelligence agents out to destroy
him.) His denunciation of any detractor as an "agent" was
taken up by Martin Cannon in his May, 1991 letter to Emory:
"Interestingly, while your practiced eye has gleaned
unmistakable evidence of federally-funded malevolence, this
evidence remains invisible to everyone else." Cannon
pondered "why you have never bothered to offer any proof of
your accusations" against Tuck, Judge and Bernardino.
Emory's most venomous campaigns were reserved for Barbara
Honegger, author of The October Surprise (a detailed
reconstruction of the Reagan/Bush hostage debacle) and a
close friend of Mae Brussell's. When Brussell died of
cancer, Emory accused Honegger of murdering her. He has
never offered any public explanation for his widely-spread
belief that Honegger killed Mae Brussell. In her June 10,
1991 response, Honegger wrote, "You have committed the
unspeakable offense of stating to numerous parties that I am
somehow responsible for Mae Brussell's death." She
explained, "I tried and tried, as did many others, to get
Mae to see medical specialists ... without success." No one,
Honegger emphasized, "tried more than I did to try to save
Mae's life." The murder accusation "both saddens and sickens
me," she wrote.

With "Nazi murderer" John Judge bounced off the air, Emory
turned a jaundiced eye to Honegger. Her reputation was
golden in conspiracy research circles. At first, her book
was ridiculed by left and right alike as a dubious theory.
But official leaks concerning the hostage deal caught the
attention of the press. Honegger's primary source of
information, Richard Brenneke, a former CIA pilot, was
acquitted in a trial arranged by the Bush administration to
discredit his account of the flight to Paris. All of this
lent credence to Honegger's investigation, and she became a
familiar voice on the radio talk show circuit. In L.A., she
was a welcome guest at KFI-AM and Pacifica. It was on
Tuckman's program that Emory proceeded to carve into her.
Drawing upon articles written by Harry Martin of the Napa
Valley Sentinel, Emory contended that self-proclaimed CIA
pilot Gunther Russbacher actually flew George Bush to the
October Surprise negotiations with Iranian officials. Since,
Emory and Martin have reached the conclusion that Russbacher
was not the pilot after all, precisely as Honegger insisted
in the first gusts of Emory's defamation storm - but only
after branding her a "liar" for doubting the allegations.
Harry Martin has since become a key source of information,
providing Emory with material for his radio program, as
Brussell once did. Harry Martin is a former Republican
activist. The corporate press ignored his series on
Russbacher, but it has been featured in the Liberty Lobby's
Spotlight. The Village Voice couldn't reconcile the many
glaring contradictions in Russbacher's story. John Whalen, a
journalist Emory respects, wrote in the San Jose Mercury on
July 11, 1990:

Depending on whom he is talking to, Russbacher has claimed
to have flown Ronald Reagan, George Bush, William Casey or
just himself to or from the Paris meetings, frequently
changing his tale when confronted with contradictions. When
a reporter at a major daily reminded Russbacher that SR-71
pilots and passengers require hours of pre-flight medical
preparation and special flight suits - making it unlikely
that Bush would go to the trouble when a conventional jet
would get him from Paris to America without all the fuss -
Russbacher abruptly revised his plot line, claiming that,
actually, he hadn't flown Bush home.

Emory had linked Tuck, Judge, Bernardino, Diamond, Burton
and now Honegger to covert branches of government. The
allegations have tarnished their reputations in southern
California. Yet Harry Martin, one of Emory's primary
sources, is the former publisher of Defense Systems Review,
a DoD mouthpiece staffed by past CIA Director Eugene Tighe,
former CIA Deputy Director Bobby Ray Inman, and Paul Cutter,
alleged by the FBI to have sold arms to Iran on behalf of
the Reagan NSC. Emory publicly excoriates Honegger for
boarding Reagan's 1980 election campaign and briefly serving
in his administration, denounces her as an "agent" - and
ignores Martin's known links to the loftiest levels of CIA
covert operations without a flinch. In July, 1988, months
before Emory's tirades began, Mae Brussell received this
letter from a Napa Valley resident concerning Harry Martin:

Dear Mae Brussel:

I understand you're quite knowledgable on the CIA's
activities. We have a person - Harry Martin - in my
hometown, Napa, who has been publishing a small weekly
newspaper, The Napa Sentinel, for the past 2 1/2 years, a
newspaper that purports to be a champion for the little
people, but actually has covert ties to Napa's development
interests. What really bothers me, however, is Martin's past
ownership of Defense Systems Review and Military
Communications, an international publication that went to
congress, the president, the U.S. military, the defense
industry and foreign governments. It's quality was the equal
of Newsweek, and it had ads from major defense companies.
Although listing Napa as its publishing address, I doubt,
considering its sophisticated layout, that it could have
been printed in Napa (it was mailed from Los Angeles). The
magazine, besides promoting weapons, supported Reagan"s
Central American policy. By his own admission, Martin had
contacts with the intelligence agencies of Western Europe
and Israel.... Some of the deceptive practices he is using
in his newspaper have aroused my suspicions he might be
involved with the CIA. There is a further possible link, a
Sentinel columnist named Mike Savage. Savage was a talk show
host (a program ironically called "Doubletalk") on our local
radio station, KVON, for several years until he resigned in
1987 (supposedly after the acceptance of a book he was
writing Doubleday), and became a columnist for the
Sentinel. Savage ran for the Napa City Council in 1986,
listing a BA in political science and an MA in psychology
from the University of Denver in his campaign ads. Savage
was not elected, but ran again in 1988. However, this time a
reporter for Napa's daily newspaper, The Napa Register, did
some checking and revealed that Savage had no degrees from
the University of Denver. Savage said it was all a
misunderstanding. I've been told by an avid radio listener
that while a talk show host, Savage had more than one CIA
agent as guests. He even arranged for an agent to talk to a
local group. On the radio, whenever he could, Savage
ridiculed citizens who protested against Reagan's Central
American policy. In recent years, Savage has travelled to
South Africa, South America and Europe....

Savage explained that his globe-trotting was financed by
Doubleday in lieu of a book contract. Another local reporter
checked on the story. Doubleday denied that Savage had been
signed. Yet Martin's Sentinel sided with Savage, claiming
the book contract was with another publisher, one he
neglected to name, though he had flatly stated so a year
before. Jonathon Whalen concluded that Martin's work on the
October Surprise required "generous leaps of faith," and was
riddled with "egregeous factual errors, unsupported claims
and misleading attributions." Martin has himself since
admitted that Gunther Russbacher's claims are
"unsubstantiated." Russbacher, who hails from a Nazi gene
pool, was hardly a reliable source. He was, at the time,
serving a 21-month sentence for impersonating a U.S.
attorney. During the trial, FBI agent Richard Robely of St.
Louis testified that Russbacher was an "FBI informant."
Under cross-examination, Robely admitted that the
self-proclaimed CIA pilot was an "infiltrator" for an
unnamed "interagency group." Rae Russbacher, his wife, is
the daughter of a Naval intelligence and FBI undercover
agent. Her first husband was dean of science and engineering
at the Naval Postgraduate School in Monterey. Martin's
version of the October Surprise was embraced almost
exclusively by Dave Emory and the Holocaust-denying Liberty
Lobby, a spin-off of the World Anti-Communist League. Most
researchers, including Honegger and the press at large, have
poked numerous holes in his story. Yet Honegger's attempts
to demonstrate that Russbacher was a liar were interpreted
by Emory as an "attack" on his own credibility. On June 6,
1991, on Tuckman's program, Emory repeated the accusation
made only by the Russbachers that Honegger was an FBI
informant. No charge could be more damaging to her career.
On June 10, Honegger wrote a letter of denial to Emory:

I have learned last week, as a guest on KPFK in southern
California, you stated on the air that I was or am an "FBI
informant." That is both false and absurd. No FBI informant
goes on the radio three to five times a week as I do
criticizing the current administration which pays the
salaries of FBI informants.... Again, you owe me a written
and aired retraction and apology for this statement.

Emory ignored her denial, and gullible listeners of KPFK
still believe Russbacher's fabricated charge - joyously
echoed by Tuckman and Emory - that Honegger was a snitch for
the FBI. The irony, of course, is that Russbacher was
informing and infiltrating for the Bureau. "Gunther
maintains that he was the October Surprise pilot," Emory
told Tuckman in the June 6, 1991 interview. "That is to say,
he flew Bush to Paris and flew him back. Gunther's
background checks out." In fact, Gunther Russ-bacher did NOT
check out. Emory's animosity toward Honegger blinded him. He
was willing to cling to anybody in his dismantling of
Honegger's reputation. Emory went on to concede that there
were glaring contradictions between Harry Martin's
interviews and a prior taped discussion between Russbacher
and Honegger. He ex-plained these away, noting that
Honegger's interview of Russbacher was conducted at 2:30 in
the morning. "By his own account, was drunk on his tail
feather. Gunther is not the first person to misspeak himself
under the influence of alcohol." Tuckman put Honegger's
conversation with a besotted Gunther over the air (an FCC
violation). Drunkenness is a lame excuse for giving two
diametrically-opposed accounts to reporters about a
historical episode as significant as the October Surprise.
Honegger challenged Russbacher's account on KAZU-FM in
Monterey. Emory and Tuckman interpreted her reservations
concerning

Russbacher as direct assaults on their own credibility.
Emory spoke of Honegger's "vendetta" against him, a peculiar
form of blindness to his own smears. "There are a number of
baldface lies that Barbara Honegger told," Emory announced
on July 11, 1991 on KPFK. After accusing her of mere
thievery and "murder," he maintained she'd insulted him
during the Monterey broadcast with "a fire-storm of
invective, innuendo and outright lies." In fact, Honegger
had said little about Emory. She had simply identified holes
in Russbacher's story, explained why he could not possibly
have flown Bush to Paris. Tuckman mentioned that Honegger
threatened to sue him. "Yeah, well, she threatened to sue me
too," Emory said. "I basically told her to piss up a rope,
and she hasn't done a thing about it." Having declared
falsely that "Russbacher's credentials check out," on this
evening Emory offered his expert opinion that "Gunther's
situation may be b.s. On the other hand, maybe not." But
Honegger, he charged, had "muddied the waters with her
personal bitterness." The grim irony of all this was not
lost on me. At this time, I had my own political program,
"The Constantine Report," which aired on KAZU in Monterey
(and, briefly, two years before on KPFK in L.A.). I had
collected taped broadcasts by both Honegger and Emory, and
concluded that Emory was attempting to bump her off the
airwaves as he had others by undermining her credibility
with bizarre accusations. I began writing a series of
letters to Tuckman, calling attention to the lameness of the
charges against Honegger. I pointed out obvious errors in
Emory's wild accusations, asked him if he really believed
Judge and Honegger were guilty of murder. For my trouble,
Tuckman sent the letters to Emory, who accused me of being a
"CIA agent." The charge was made in a private phone call to
Will Robinson, host of "The Lighthouse Report," Monterey's
answer to Tuckman's program. "This Constantine guy is no
fucking good," Emory spat. "You're going to have to learn
friend from foe. The problem is you don't listen to advice.
You can just take a humble attitude, listen to what I say
and follow orders." Emory gave Robinson an ultimatum: either
strike "The Constantine Report" from the playlist, or Emory
would not permit his own tapes to be played on KAZU.
Robinson chose to keep my program. Emory is no longer on the
KAZU roster. In his taped conversation with Robinson, Emory
took credit for purging me from Tuckman's program in L.A.:
"I put the kibosh on Constantine, " he crowed. A crowning
irony of his attacks on myself is that he considers one of
his "most important works" to be a reading of William
Pepper's book on the Martin Luther King assassination - a
point-of-view I covered comprehensively two years ago, when
James Earl Ray filed for a retrial, citing developments from
news sources in Mississippi and the UK. The stories aired
over KAZU for several weeks. In other words, I've already
done Emory's "most important" research. Emory was profiled
in Jonathan Vankin's Conspiracies, Cover-Ups and Crimes,
described by Robert Anton Wilson as "the most exciting book
on conspiracy theory I've read in this decade." The San
Francisco Chronicle called it "a lively and provocative
book." In it, Vankin relives Emory's rebuttal to the
unflattering coverage. Emory's obsession with the book, and
with me personally it would seem, culminated (although not
concluded) with two consecutive five-and-a-half hour
broadcasts - eleven solid hours of otherwise valuable
airtime - devoted to lambasting me. Feigning the high road,
Emory pretended that my alleged "hit piece" didn't bug him.
He did feel moved, however, to describe me as a
"front-running yuppie pantywaist," whatever that means.

Emory accused Vankin of plotting with the Moonies to ruin
him. Vankin described the eleven-hour tirade as "a personal
vendetta for an imagined slight," and related how Emory
lumped him in with "Moonies, right-wing tax protesters, the
anti-Semitic 'Identity Christianity' movement, John Judge,
and most amusingly, the alternative newsweekly where I work,
Metro (a "masturbation vehicle for yuppies"). Emory, who is
prone to thinking himself a bit of a martyr, said the likely
result of Vankin's book was "a possibility of physical
violence and mind control." Lately, the basso, self-obsessed
McCarthyite of the near-left characterized Noam Chomsky, a
studied critic of U.S. foreign affairs, as a leading
proponent of "the fascist third position in America." He
also diagnosed Tom Davis, the book merchant, as "senile"
without the benefit of a physician's consultation. This was
the week that 65-year-old Davis, then keeper of the
voluminous Brussell archives, gave all 33 filing cabinets
and a mountain of political books and tapes to researcher
Virginia McCullough. Emory had already announced on the air
that he was working on procuring the files from Davis.
Losing them to McCullough, yet another researcher with whom
he'd had a falling out, must have been a bitter loss.
McCarthyite tactics are typical of Emory. His smears must be
stopped before more reputations are decimated at the expense
of all who care to know the truth about the workings of
federal intelligence groups and world fascism.
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slaveplanet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-27-03 11:09 PM
Response to Reply #55
58. big deal
You think you can go on Air for 20+ years , with the type of info he puts forth and not pick up a few enemies....dream on

I know the story behind the story....he has an e-mail address ...why don't you ask him yourself
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not systems Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-27-03 11:18 PM
Response to Reply #58
61. What was the "story behind the story"...
I take it you know it.

Share.

Or have you been sworn to secrecy.
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slaveplanet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-27-03 10:54 PM
Response to Reply #30
54. Let me save you some time
I just listened to #FTR398 again....DE clearly states his current views toward War In Iraq as of 2/9/2003

30min. 25 seconds for full reference

30 min 40 seconds Dave Emory- "This is not to be misunderstood as an endorsment for all out war. There may be some reasons for going to war in Iraq,but the administration has not made a clear case and indeed those links between 9/11 possibly and the OKC bombing go through what I refer to , as the Underground Reich"
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not systems Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-27-03 11:15 PM
Response to Reply #54
59. That comes very close.
I was thinking more of this from:

http://www.spitfirelist.com/f404.html

The title “Anglo-Saxonia vs. Germania” derives from a concept first introduced in FTR#103 (recorded in early August of 1998) and developed at length in FTR#394. Currently being manifested in the Iraqi war, this geopolitical struggle is a continuation of World War II, with an economic contest between the dollar and the euro at the center of the struggle. Employing proxy war in the Middle East, “diplomacy as a continuation of war by other means” and the economic theories of pan-German theoretician Friedrich List, a Third Reich gone underground and its French and Islamofascist allies are fighting against the US and UK. (For more about this complex analysis, see—among other programs—FTR#’s 394-403.)


I have a very hardtime taking statments like this one:

"a Third Reich gone underground and French and Islamofascist allies are fighting against the US and UK"

As anything more than idiotic rantings of a propagandist.
A propagandist for what I don't know exactly but it looks alot
like support for crypto-imperialist interventionism in Iraq.

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slaveplanet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-27-03 11:30 PM
Response to Reply #59
63. Find me the statement
where he is for the Iraq war and get back to me....
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not systems Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-03 10:33 AM
Response to Reply #63
95. Statement.
Listening to the FTR from around the wars start he is not for the war.

My statement "He was a big boster for the Iraq war." was
based on my reaction to his bashing any and all antiwar
voices except former generals who he thought were good.
His dramatic statements about WMD which it sounds like
you feel may have been found but are being saved until
the election. His smearing the French and Germans as
puppets of the "underground reich".

I do think I have misstated his stand on the start of the war.
It seems to be Bush is a puppet of the "underground reich" and
has started this war to weaken america including the undermining
of the millitary and the economy.

Is close to your take on it?

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TimeLord Donating Member (122 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-27-03 06:35 PM
Response to Original message
32. Ok...forgive me here....
I maybe wrong...but isn't Stalinism different than Marxist-Leninism? Isn't the World Workers Party more along the lines of a democratic socialist party? Was the lead post mostly for smearing purposes?

I'm confused and would greatly appreciate any answers. Thanks.
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slaveplanet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-27-03 06:44 PM
Response to Reply #32
33. It's
a very complex issue-based off a working hypothesis...
I'ts best if you listen to the whole program first. and familiarize yourself with all the facets.

what is posted in the original post is only 4 paragraphs of annotated notes...Listening to the real audio file helps greatly.
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slaveplanet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-27-03 07:36 PM
Response to Reply #32
35. No
Edited on Mon Oct-27-03 07:38 PM by slaveplanet
//Was the lead post mostly for smearing purposes?//

I posted this because they're seem to be some strange alliances going on when it comes to ANSWER and whom they choose to associate with, I feel it's best to direct people to those questionable things .so du'ers can make a sound judgement on how they wish to direct their energies.

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TimeLord Donating Member (122 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-27-03 07:53 PM
Response to Reply #35
38. I'm going to listen to the whole thing....
However, I have my suspicions when one tries to confuse Marxism/Leninism with Stalinism and then equates the WWP with all three?

I have to admit that I haven't heard of this program but will listen with caution.
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diamond14 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-27-03 07:44 PM
Response to Reply #32
36. yes ! very definitely yes! and welcome to DU, TimeLord...glad
Edited on Mon Oct-27-03 07:46 PM by amen1234

you joined us...there are plenty of people here actively and deliberately smearing the anti-war protestors. See my next post about 'HIDE UNDER YOUR DESK'(post #34)...it summarizes just a few smears by some DUers...scared people...they saw the BEAST rise up and walk around DC on Saturday...they are hitting it with every smear they can think of...and it doesn't matter...the BEAST is here now....and we will take OUR government back....the DC Marchers represent that 1% of the people who can get the job done...so these 'little' minds are just SCARED of the BEAST...

welcome...glad you joined us...you have good perceptions....

:bounce: :bounce: :bounce:


:hi: :hi: :hi:




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TimeLord Donating Member (122 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-27-03 07:58 PM
Response to Reply #36
40. Thank you, amen1234!
I appreciate you welcoming me aboard!

I am in much agreement with you when it comes to our government coming home to where it belongs; We the people...

1% is all we need for if we can communicate effectively to those that do not know what is truly going on, the tide shall be turned....you won't hear it on MSNBC, Fox, or CNN...because The Revolution will not be televised....

:toast:

Great to meet you amen1234!
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diamond14 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-27-03 09:36 PM
Response to Reply #40
45. (link) to an interesting interview with Ramsey Clark....about the 1 %
this is about the 1 % (the BEAST that just walked through DC, and scared the hell out of all these 'little minds', who react by vehemently attacking us)....but it also covers the whole BIG picture...puts the DC anti-war protests issues into perspective...
there is a really big group here that does know that the BEAST will be 'slouching toward Bethlehem' too....they make a lot of noise...

--------------------------------
-snips-

Jensen: So what do we do?

Clark: I think the solution relies on the power of the idea, and the power of the word, and on a belief that, in the end, the ultimate power resides in the people.

In discussing the effects of U.S. foreign policy, we've been talking about only one part of the story. Another part is resistance - the power of the people. We saw that in the Philippines, when Marcos was deposed in a nonviolent revolution, and we saw that in Iran, when the Shah's staggering power was overcome, as well, by a nonviolent revolution.

Of course, just getting rid of Marcos or the Shah is not the end of the story. People sometimes think that, after the glorious revolution, everybody is going to live happily ever after. But it doesn't work that way. What they've gone through in the struggle has divided them, confused them, driven them to extremes of desperation.

I think what all of this means is that we each have to do our own part, and become responsible, civic-minded citizens: we have to realize that we won't be happy unless we try to do our part. And if a small portion of us simply do our part, that will be enough. If even 1 percent of the people of this country could break out of the invisible chains, they could bring down this military-industrial complex - this tyranny of corporations, this plutocracy - overnight. That's all it would take: 1 percent of the people.

http://www.thesunmagazine.org/bully.html
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slaveplanet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-27-03 08:43 PM
Response to Reply #36
43. HMM..
Edited on Mon Oct-27-03 08:49 PM by slaveplanet
//there are plenty of people here actively and deliberately smearing the anti-war protestors. //

Maybe you can enlighten us as to whom these plenty of people are?

Then again , maybe you could expand the link, and read the opening summary paragraphs of the article?

maybe you could . but you won't....Some people just like opening their mouths so much .....they don't see their foot coming to occupy the space

from opening paragraph of FTR#398
(This should in no way be misunderstood as impugning the motives of the vast majority of people opposing the war and/or in attendance at these rallies.)
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-03 10:18 AM
Response to Reply #36
87. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
diamond14 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-27-03 07:18 PM
Response to Original message
34. OMG...quick everyone...HIDE UNDER YOUR DESKS !!!!!
a mushroom cloud is coming.....

it seems that the radical wrong-wing, here on DU, is throwing everything but the kitchen sink at the DC war-protestors, since they got home.....

that's a good sign...bush* knows that it only takes 1 % of the people to change government...afterall, he radically changed OUR government with even less than 1 % of the people.....and NOW, bush* and his minions have seen the BEAST rise up, and walk around DC last Saturday....they are hitting it with everything their 'little' brains can think of:

just in two days DU posts, the American Patriots, anti-war protestors, were called: communists, extreme Marxists, wacko Stalinists, radical leftists, un-American, BIZARRE people, radical socialists, extremists, hysterical whacko extremist hippies, cop-killers, killers of American troops, pro-North Korea activists, apparently crazed, fanatic people, monsters, Jew-haters, screaming 'foreign born speakers', freak show, sectarian leftists, rabid, and more...

so...it means that the BEAST has been noticed, while walking around DC...and these wrong-wing DU people are definitely AFRAID...afraid because WE THE PEOPLE can and will take back OUR government...and all the DU-namer callers can remember this poem: sticks and stones will break my bones, but names will never hurt me....

remember, the BEAST will not go away...no matter how many names you radical wrong-wing DUers can think up...it's here, now....
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Blue_Chill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-27-03 07:53 PM
Response to Reply #34
39. Nice try
But this person is exposing ANSWER and not attacking DC protestors as your strawman would have us believe.
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Rich Hunt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-03 10:23 AM
Response to Reply #39
90. thank you
Edited on Tue Oct-28-03 10:29 AM by dymaxia
I've actually worked on committees and the like.

There aren't even all that many ANSWER people in any given town. The peace activists - long-time peace activists don't even know who these people are.

I've seen people spend their whole lives dedicated to peace only to be marginalized because they don't like front groups. The real future of the anti-war movement is with the community activists and the peace people who work every day for peace.

I never see WWP or RCP go to a picket line or work for housing justice. They just latch on to other people's frameworks and ride along.

Have a look at who these "peace" people really are:

http://www.authoritarianopportunistswhocozyuptogenocidaldictators-forpeace.org/

Also, Z Magazine tells it like it is. Don't you DARE tell me that Z is anything but very left-wing:

One extremely energetic antiwar group is the International Action Center (IAC). It is the leading force in the coalition ANSWER (Act Now to Stop War & End Racism) which is calling the October 26 demonstrations in Washington, DC and elsewhere. (IAC and ANSWER share a New York City phone number and the latter's website features many materials from IAC.) IAC is officially led by Ramsey Clark and is largely the creation of the Workers World Party; many key IAC figures are prominent writers for WWP.

WWP holds many views that we find abhorrent. It considers North Korea "socialist Korea" where the "land, factories, homes, hotels, parks, schools, hospitals, offices, museums, buses, subways, everything in the DPRK belongs to the people as a whole" (Workers World, May 9, 2002), a fantastic distortion of the reality of one of the most rigid dictatorships in the world. IAC expresses its solidarity with Slobodan Milosevic (http://www.iacenter.org/yugo_milosdeligation.htm). There's of course much to criticize in the one-sided Hague war crimes tribunal, but to champion Milosevic is grotesque. The ANSWER website provides an IAC backgrounder on Afghanistan that refers to the dictatorial government that took power in that country in 1978 as "socialist" and says of the Soviet invasion the next year: the "USSR intervened militarily at the behest of the Afghani revolutionary government" (http://www.internationalanswer.org/campaigns/resources/index.html) -- neglecting to mention that Moscow first had to engineer the execution of the Afghan leader to get themselves the invitation to intervene.

In none of IAC's considerable resources on the current Iraq crisis is there a single negative word about Saddam Hussein. There is no mention that he is a ruthless dictator. (This omission is not surprising, given their inability to detect any problem of dictatorship with the Soviet-backed regime in Afghanistan.) There is no mention that Hussein is responsible for the deaths of many tens of thousands of Iraqi Kurds and Shi'ites. IAC's position is that any opponent of U.S. imperialism must be championed and never criticized.

How do these views affect antiwar demonstrations organized by IAC or ANSWER? They do so in two primary ways.

First, an important purpose of antiwar demonstrations is to educate the public, so as to be able to build a larger movement. If the message of a demonstration is that opposition to U.S. war means support for brutal regimes, then we are mis-educating the public, and limiting the growth of the movement. To be sure, some true things we say may also alienate some members of the public, and often that is a risk we must take in order to communicate the truth and change awareness. But to tell the public that they have to support either George Bush or Saddam Hussein is not true and is certainly not a way to build a strong movement. People are not wrong to be morally repelled by Saddam Hussein. An antiwar movement that cannot make clear its opposition to the crimes of both Bush and Hussein will of necessity be limited in size.

The second problem with IAC-organized demonstrations is that the day-to-day practice of IAC cadre often shows a lack of commitment to democratic and open behavior. It is not surprising that those who lionize the dictatorial North Korean regime will be somewhat lacking in their appreciation of democratic practice.

Does this mean that people who reject these abhorrent views of the IAC shouldn't attend the October 26 antiwar demonstrations in Washington, DC, San Francisco, and elsewhere? No.


http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?SectionID=15&ItemID=2527



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slaveplanet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-27-03 08:13 PM
Response to Reply #34
41. Nice tactic strawman
Bring it On-

If you'd bother to read or listen ....the Broadcast was in early 2003 ..before the iraqi war

attack the premise and not the questionable ties

maybe you care to enlighten us as to why ANSWER puts speakers in front of us whom have close associations with the likes of Huber whom has close ties to the German NPD....do some research on NPD

Huber has met members of Bin Laden’s organization, but denies that the Al Taqwa management group and the related Nada Management firms were involved with funding Bin Laden’s organization.  (Idem.)
 Like Horst Mahler (discussed in FTR#333), Huber is an associate of the NPD, as well as Islamic extremists.  (Idem.)
    A doctrinaire anti-Semite and Holocaust denier, Huber was closely associated with a Nazi émigré milieu in Nasser’s Egypt discussed in numerous past broadcasts.  (“Les Amis de Faurisson: Ahmed Rami” by Gilles Karmasyn
       In particular, Huber was associated in Egypt with Johann Von Leers, a Goebbels assistant for anti-Semitic propaganda.  (Idem.)In Egypt, Von Leers ran an anti-Semitic propaganda institute for Nasser, and became associated with a milieu that included the notorious Swiss Nazi Francois Genoud and the Grand Mufti. (Dreamer of the Day: Francis Parker Yockey and the Postwar Fascist International; by Kevin Coogan;

    Yousseff  Nada, the head of Nada management sat on the board of a prestigious geo-political think tank that included Henry Kissinger and Mikail Gorbachev.  (“Bin Laden Trail Extends to Swiss Outfit” by Yaroslav Trofimov; Wall Street Journal; 9/21/2001; p. A19.)
  Next, the program highlights suspicions that the Al Taqwa firm (Nada Management) was associated with the stock market manipulation discussed in FTR#’s 327 and 331.  (“Stock Trades Probed for Ties to Bin Laden” by William Drozdiak; Washington Post; 9/18/2001; p. A08; accessed at www.washingtonpost.com.)Among the companies whose stocks were involved in the “short selling” are Swiss Reinsurance and Munich Reinsurance.  (Idem.)  Both companies have liability in the World Trade Center bombing. 

The NPD (with which Huber is associated) is closely allied with the National Alliance (the publisher of Serpent’s Walk.)  (“Far Right Violence Soars in Germany” by Martin A. Lee; San Francisco Bay Guardian; 3/19/2001; accessed at www.sfbg.com/reality/19.html.)  The program points out the links between the Underground Reich, domestic terrorists, Islamic extremists, elements of the U.S. national security establishment, as well as the apartheid regime of South Africa.  The possibility that the anthrax attacks may have been perpetrated by one, several or all of the above elements is not one to be too readily dismissed.

Nice bonus trick ....get the Newbie before he learns the truth


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Blue_Chill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-27-03 07:52 PM
Response to Original message
37. Good post
But you aren't opening eyes as much as you exposing the beliefs some here seem to have no problem with.
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slaveplanet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-27-03 08:23 PM
Response to Reply #37
42. That my friend Is half the battle N/T
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-27-03 09:59 PM
Response to Reply #42
46. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
slaveplanet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-27-03 10:40 PM
Response to Reply #46
51. damn ...I'm not on the list
I'm also not in charge of who get's placed on the podium.

But you can bet I'd be making some changes, were I to be In charge....
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prolesunited Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-27-03 10:47 PM
Response to Reply #51
53. Who's stopping you
Throw your own rally and march and YOU can be in charge!
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diamond14 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-27-03 10:56 PM
Response to Reply #51
56. whining & complaining couch potatoes usually don't have enough
initiative to get on the list....and certainly not enough initiative to get up on the stage, because you must work very hard to get 'placed' on the podium...these people are 'in charge' not because they were 'put' in charge, but because they worked for it, with their own hands and sweat over many years....these are people who actually DO things in their communities...people who care...people who make a big difference in other peoples lives...these are that very special 1 % of Americans that just STOOD UP in DC on Saturday....

yes, this is the belly of the BEAST, that some DUers are afraid of...so afraid that they fling insults and nasty names....the BEAST that is 'slouching toward Bethlehem', and there is no name-calling that will stop it...
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slaveplanet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-27-03 11:17 PM
Response to Reply #56
60. hey, there's some damn good people on that list
I've got no problem with them .....On the other hand , they could tighten up the ship. And end so much of the polarization that Emory refers to in his broadcast.

If that were to happen I'd be the first to sign up....but that is not what i see happening from the posts of the past few days....which is why I posted the reference in the first place, to try and show others what the Hubbub is about.
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prolesunited Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-27-03 10:04 PM
Response to Original message
47. My response
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slaveplanet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-27-03 11:25 PM
Response to Reply #47
62. thanks for the response
but this thread is not directed at people such as yourself whom already know the problems some of us have with Answer . In case you did'nt Tune in to wingnut radio today....Only the speeches were referenced and used for fodder with delight and Glee.
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prolesunited Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-27-03 11:35 PM
Response to Reply #62
64. The mere existence of liberals
Edited on Mon Oct-27-03 11:35 PM by prolesunited
is used by wingnuts for fodder with delight and glee. Even if they have nothing, they make stuff up. I'm sure you remember what a liar Gore was? :eyes:

Like many have said, you want it to be different, then YOU work with your groups to make it happen.
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jonnyblitz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-03 07:16 AM
Response to Reply #62
74. right wing radio would have done that no matter what was said.
not all of us live in fear of what is being said on right wing radio.It's too bad you do.
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slaveplanet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-03 07:38 AM
Response to Reply #74
77. Though this happened early on this year
‘the real terrorists have always been the United Snakes of America,’ and then led the crowd in the Islamic bombers’ chant ‘Allahu Akhbar!’"

statement like this ... should not be condoned by any position

‘Allahu Akhbar!- Is what the suicide bombers scream, but you'd have known that had you bothered to listen to the file....go find out what it means on your own...


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not systems Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-03 10:20 AM
Response to Reply #77
88. "Allahu Akhbar"?
Doesn't that just mean "God is great" are you sure that is evidence of anything.

Saying this is a "Islamic bombers’ chant" may be a mischaracterization
of the phrase and its meaning.

I'm sure it is possible that many "suicide bombers scream," this
phrase but it is my impression that this is a much more generic
phrase than you are suggesting.

Unless you are caught up with the "Islam is Evil" idea that is so popular
these days and any mention of the word "Allah" is taken as
a sign of terrorist intent.
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Terwilliger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-03 10:26 AM
Response to Reply #88
93. sounds more like bigotry and hatred to me
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Terwilliger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-03 10:20 AM
Response to Reply #77
89. I know what it means
and if you don't think the US is a terrorist nation, you're not examing much very closely
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thebigidea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-03 10:26 AM
Response to Reply #77
92. sigh
"Allahu Akhbar!- Is what the suicide bombers scream"

its also what a billion Muslims scream/say/pray - are you calling them terrorists too?

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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-03 12:51 AM
Response to Original message
67. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
rman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-03 06:57 AM
Response to Original message
70. your point? Left = communist = Stalin = Bad?
if so, that's an old RW trick; guilt by association.

Stalin came to power while russia was communist. That is the only link between communism and Stalin. It does not mean Stalin = communist. Stalin was a dictator. Likewise Trotsky was not a Stalinist in spite of the fact that he worked with Stalin for some time. If you want to know about communism then look at Lenin & Trotsky.

It's much like Hitler and Bush coming to power in a democracy; doesn't mean they are democratic, and doesn't mean democracy = Bad.
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