should peace marches have 'dress codes'?

[G_j]

Every peace march seems to have it's critics. One complaint that we hear is about the "image" progected to the public by people who look too "weird" and not like "mainstream" Americans.
This tiny rant reflects my experience from attending street demonstrations consistantly through the years.

One thing that has always been a distiction between the RW drones and the left is a joy-like, celebratory quality reflected in diversity and color. I've protested in DC and other places since the Viet Nam days and there was ALWAYS a colorful, radical alternative quality to the crowds. I had this very conversation with Peggy Seeger whom I was standing next to at a local rally before the Iraq invasion. We both agreed that the "rainbow" nature of the left gave us energy and inspiration. The bright relections of our diversity represent on one level our hopes for the world we invision. Now are we are supposed to give that up to? I'm even hearing people who have problems with puppets! Puppets?
Does the ABB philosophy now dictate that we need to match the drab colorless qualities of the dittos? I ask you, how long then will it be before other distictions fade as well?

[boilerbabe]

1. The more colorful, the better!! n/t

[JohnKleeb]

yep

:hi: It was nice to meet you, your brother, and the others yesterday. Your brother is an example of that,

[JohnKleeb]

2. FUCK NO

This coming from someone who dressed "normal", I just wore a jacket with a T underneath and jeans.

[liberalhistorian]

45. FUCK NO reply

You couldn't be more right. Too long have we suffered under the regime of Mr. Fuckass Bitch Fucker (bush). We NEED to impeach him before America becomes the epitome of hell. ARE YOU WITH ME?????

[MountainLaurel]

95. Ditto here

I think that's one of our strengths, is that we're not all white men wearing grey suits with the same televangelist haircut. Focusing on image and appearance is just a tactic for diverting attention away from the message.

(LH: was great meeting you and your son this weekend; what are his afterthoughts on the march?) :hi:

[quaker bill]

3. We never look right in suits and ties anyway.

May as well come as you are.

[JohnKleeb]

6. When I was marching yesterday

I think we passed by some of the young repukes, I may have yelled something I forget.

[LoZoccolo]

4. ABB philosophy: uh, no...

ABB means that you know it's better to get some of what you want rather than almost none of what you want.

[G_j]

10. I should say

the ABB philosophy according to a few, certainly not a core ABB view.

[LoZoccolo]

12. OK then, tell me...

...what is the core ABB view?

And if there really is another ABB'er that doesn't think this same way, I'd like to hear from you as well.

[G_j]

18. simply,

Anyone But Bush. There are a myriad of viewpoints on how that can be accomplished.
I am not a strict ABBer, though I understand it and respect the basic idea. I just have a problem with the word "anyone".

[Andy_Stephenson]

5. If we wore suit and tie

we would look like freeper marchers. I like the variety myself.

[Ignoramus]

17. Demonstration vs. performance

A demonstration is intentionally informal. In the spirit of democracy anyone and everyone is invited and encouraged to express their own perspective. It's an american and world-wide tradition.

Discussions about what people should look like at an informal event, often seem a little maddening to me. I think they have a problem with.... democracy. I know that probably sounds harsh. But, I think it's true. This is actually what democracy does look like. Or at least, they don't experience the same joy I do from being in a crowd where tolerance more or less rules the day. Or most likely, they didn't actually attend and are being brainwashed by the media.

On the other hand, a performance is formal. You can have a performance within a demonstration, and you can have a demonstration within a performance. Or you can just have a performance or a vigil. Go to it.

[G_j]

21. "This is what Democracy looks like"

one of my absolute favorite chants of recent years. There are many layers of meaning to this, it is powerful and true.

[Another Bill C.]

7. This is a long-time gripe.

If we are trying to sell an idea to the majority, we should look like the majority so they can identify with us. Identifying with us might get them to listen to what we're saying.

If our purpose is merely to preach to the choir then it's okay to look like the choir. That doesn't do much for the cause, though.

[gristy]

16. I don't think peaceniks/DUers are ever going to sell anything

to the "majority" (e.g., independents, mainstream Dems, or mainstream America). But we will make noise, expose liars, debate amongst ourselves, write our congresscritters and newspapers, and generally make pests of ourselves. And these are all a good things. I don't think the majority of Americans will ever identify with their notion of the types of people who vocally march for peace and/or against the BFEE. But that doesn't mean that we don't or won't support similar goals or share a common enemy.

[patdem]

20. Do you have a photograph of what MOST of AMERICA LOOKS like?

I think I do...it is called the MARCH on DC!!

I like what the previous poster said...this is what Democracy looks like!


In fact the chant "What does Democracy look like? This is what Democracy looks like!" Is so true!

[oldcoot]

42. Class bias

I suspect that the majority of people who are complaining about how the protestors dress are middle or upper-class Americans. When they complain about the protestors not wearing "nice" clothes, they are demonstrating their own class bias. They look down on the protestors because they feel that the protestors come from a lower social class. They feel that if the protestors belonged to the "right class of people," they would be playing golf or going to the gym instead of protesting. Unfortunately, I do not think that the protestors can reach these shallow and stupid people. I am afraid that the only way these people will ever be convinced that the war in Iraq is wrong is if they start to personally suffer from the consequences of the war.

[grasswire]

53. well....

...I complain about the marches, and I am not any sort of upper class American. I am a realist.

My complaint is this: policy will change when middle America is in the street. Middle America will not be in the street as long as they are frightened by the protests they see on c-span.

Middle America has no affection for the causes ANSWER espouses.

Middle America has been propagandized against dreadlocks, dope-smoking, commies, socialists, angry leftists, yadda yadda.

I want to punish Bushco with a Democratic landslide. Protests by only leftists won't advance that goal. Protests that attract middle America could.

[Ardee]

60. realist or defeatist?

Not to use a headline to insult, honest, but for crying out loud middle america will NEVER turn out en masse and that is reality.Those you see as dreadlocked, dope smoking commies or socialists and angry leftists yadda yadda ( I consider myself one of the yaddas)are precisely the ones who will drag the rest of the nation out of its morass, its lethargy. It is those about whom you make such outrageous assumptions that are doing the dirty work, turning out in droves, publicising the discontent hidden beneath the surface.

You seem to want some sort of magic wand to get Joe and Jane Sixpack out in the streets, an especially unbelievable expectation given that the legitimacy of protest that would normally come directly from the Democratic Party is totally absent and has been for three entire years now! by the time we see a significant number of average folks out there the battle will have already been won!

During the protests that preceeded the invasion of Iraq I had the "priviledge" of being arrested outside the Pacific Stock Exchange. Sharing my encarceration was the former President of the Exchange, no dope smoking rastifarian he I assure you, yet there he was, under arrest as was I, as was a number of thjose whose appearence you diminish, a rather shallow assessment ,imo, of folks who are working their tails off for all of us........

[EastofEdon]

81. yes, and without

these people the demos would be small indeed. How effective would that be?
Just ask the Freepers.

[Selwynn]

78. I don't CHANGE WHO I AM for the sake of a majority

You act like people just put on certain clothes or lead certain lifestyles are act certain ways like its a fad or a fashion. It is self-identity. My name is Selwynn and this is who I am and I believe in a United States of American where I am welcome and valued. And I will not apologize for myself. I will not allow this so called "majority" to make me feel ashamed or guilty of being an American.

I don't believe that we win the victories that will revolutionize the country by constantly compromising and captiulating to the lowest common denominator. Sometimes compromise is necessary, but I draw the line when it comes to my personhood.

THIS IS WHO WE ARE - This is our country. These are the everyday people of society, just as much as any white man in a business suit. Diversity is strenght and if we start sacrificing that then its not for me. I believe in standing up for certain principles AT ANY COST and one of them is openness and acceptance of all people, race, color, creed, sex, sex orientation, dress, lifestyle and anything else - this is a core belief of mine. If you tell me that I'm not fit to demonstrate peacefully in the US with a group of like minded supporters because you're afraid of what the "other guys" might thing, well, you can go to hell.

[patdem]

8. Diversity is what makes people go to these marches

and is what makes the 'inner city' neighborhoods much more interesting and worth living in. Consider the suburbs...there are not 'gathering' holes in the suburbs...but in a diverse inner city there are many places people meet that includes the 'poor street performer', the 'indigent of interest', the young and the old, the white, black, asian, muslim, talking to each other so as not to bore each other to death with the same story told a hundred thousand times!!!

[G_j]

13. very nicely put

thank you ! :-)

[Newsjock]

9. The press was on our side this time

Even though, by most accounts, the crowd at Saturday's event was less than expected, we got almost universally favorable coverage in the print media -- including an excellent Washington Post article on how military families were so prominent at the event.

Moreover, many of the complaints that peppered DU yesterday -- too much Free Mumia, too many red headbands, etc. -- were either glossed over or completely ignored in most mainstream media reports.

And what did the "well-dressed" freepers get? At most, a passing reference at the end of the reports. And as for their supposed good behavior? AP moved this photo Saturday afternoon as their sample of the counterdemonstration:

Ruben Israel, left, of Los Angeles, and Stephen James, right, of Somerset, Penn., heckle anti-war demonstrators as they march in Washington to protest the U.S. troops presence in Iraq

We won this round. We don't need to change.

[nostamj]

11. "well-dressed freepers" ?????

they looked like a pack of pigs! not a suit to be seen.

[JohnKleeb]

14. Those werent freepers

Just Jeebus Junkies heh, now Jonny and I and others did encounter some of em, apparently according to Jonny the infamous Kristin is a dude, I was like Jonny you are shitting me, no no Kleeb, Kristin is a guy, then I knew nothing more :D.

[nostamj]

15. not referring to the "christians" on 17th

the freepers were quite a way into the march route, on a small grassy knoll.

and well-dressed they certainly were not!

[JohnKleeb]

19. course not

Jonny was great, I loved his sign.

[_NorCal_D_]

24. LOL

I agree. Truly frightening individuals.

[kimchi]

113. They weren't a pack of pigs, but patriotic Americans, according to the AP

Karen Perdue of Carson City, Nev., yells across the street at anti-war protesters in Reno, Nev., Saturday, Oct. 25, 2003. Perdue and other patriotic protesters were expressing their opposition to the peace demonstration. (AP Photo/Debra Reid)

So it is patriotic to oppose peace. Rodger that. Jeebus you wouldn't think they'd be that f'n casual about being fascist whores.

[screembloodymurder]

22. Yesterday in D.C. the right-wing "Christian" freeper got a laugh

when, during an exchange with a young, mohawked protestor, he said the protestor was so confused he didn't know which way to cut his hair.

But then, he was holding a sign advocating weapons for Christ.... so who's more confused.

I don't think a dress code is the answer, but people do need to realize that appearance counts when selling a cause.

[_NorCal_D_]

23. No, not a dress code.

But maybe a little more unity in the message.

[tokenlib]

25. dress code?? NO WAY!

Saturday we saw a representative picture of our society, young and old, blue collar, professionals, students, youth, veterans and familes of those who serve. A dress code would destroy the message that this crowd was not a bunch of fringe leftists--but indeed consists of neighbors and fellow citizens. We should all be proud of the diversity, the collage of America at its best.

[Zorra]

26. Lol -- Barbie and Ken march on Washington... IDTS.

But some very serious protesters use "dress codes" symbolically.

Black Ski Mask Is a Symbol of Her People's Invisibility

"Those who are not here today already know that they refused to listen to what an indigenous woman came to tell them," said Commander Esther, as she addressed a half-full Congress wearing an embroidered blouse and a black ski mask.

Since the Zapatista National Liberation Army rose up in arms on January 1, 1994, the rebels and their civilian supporters have worn ski masks to symbolize what they see as indigenous peoples' invisibility in Mexican society and to signify the universality of their struggle for cultural and political rights.

http://www.womensenews.org/article.cfm?aid=507

Zapatista protesters block Mexico stock
market
12:37 p.m. Jan 05, 1998 Eastern

- Protesters supporting Zapatista rebels in southern Chiapas state blocked access to the
Mexican stock market on Monday and occupied two radio stations in the
Mexican capital, witnesses said.
----snip-----
At the same time as the stock market
demonstration, dozens of other protesters wearing black ski masks and
bandannas occupied two Mexico City radio stations, Radioactivo and Pulsar,
and demanded that they broadcast a taped message from the Zapatistas. The
stations share the same building.

``Unarmed members of the (Zapatista)
Front took over the station peacefully this morning and started to transmit
things about the problems in Chiapas, but the Interior Ministry cut the
broadcast,'' an employee at the Radioactivo station told Reuters.

Speaking on condition of anonymity, the
employee said the atmosphere inside the station was ``absolutely calm'' and
that workers hoped the station would restart broadcasts soon.

http://old.thing.net/wwwboard1/messages/630.html

SAN CRISTOBAL DE LAS CASAS, Mexico Associated Press Worldstream January 1, 2003

Wednesday Thousands of Zapatistas thronged the streets of this historic colonial city Wednesday to commemorate the ninth anniversary of the rebel group's uprising against a government that they say continues to betray them. Carrying machetes and wearing their trademark ski masks, the Zapatistas rolled into town aboard more than 200 trucks and buses for the first joint celebration of the rebels' takeover of San Cristobal and several other towns on Jan. 1, 1994. At least 57 people died in battles between the Zapatistas and government troops during the short-lived rebellion. The rebels have waged a peaceful struggle since then.

Previous anniversaries had been celebrated in individual villages; this year's event brought together more than 15,000 Zapatista sympathizers from towns throughout the region, some as far as 300 kilometers (185 miles) away. In a march to the city's central plaza, the rebels knocked their machetes together and against the asphalt pavement, yelling chants in favor of Indian rights and against the government as intrigued visitors to this popular vacation city snapped photos or shied away intimidated.

http://www.organicconsumers.org/chiapas/010403_zapatistas.cfm

[Mari333]

27. Why yes I think all the women should

Get out their pup tents and start stitching for their next protest!

http://www.internetweekly.org/iwr/parody_laura_bush_walmart.html

[proud patriot]

28. No Way n/t

[noiretextatique]

29. republicans with stock portfolios against the war!

a group of well-dressed, white guys i saw marching next to the faeries at one of the SF marches last year. even the republicans didn't seem to mind the faeries, since everyone was there for (essentially) the same reason. perhaps there should be less "foreign-born" speakers at these marches...a complaint on another thread :eyes:

[grasswire]

30. it depends on ....

.....what the intended message is and who the intended recipient of the message is, and how seriously you want that intended recipient to take the message.

I am of the opinion that we should look to the model of the Civil Rights movement -- a movement that had moral authority and gravitas and that could not be dismissed.

Now. Think how the Civil Rights movement would have been viewed and portrayed if the participants had dressed like minstrel players or stereotypical black characters. What if they had dressed in the rags of slaves or tiger skins and beaten jungle drums? What if they had marched with their faces decorated as Africans do?

I'll tell you what would have happened. They would have been more easily marginalized and less successful.

The peace marches today are easily dismissed as crazy left-wing commie hippie stuff because they are unfocused and come off as loony. Moral authority is traded for a par-tee atmosphere.

[noiretextatique]

32. truly...one of the MOST OFFENSIVE posts EVER on DU

you forgot to post pictures of the sanitation worker strike...i don't think they were dressed up in suits to appease racist americans. minstrels...jungle drums?!?! :wtf: were you thinking?

[grasswire]

33. how is it offensive...

....to point out a successful model for a march?

What is it you want?

Success in convincing America of the case against the war?

Or not?

>>>on edit: I don't think you read my post for meaning. There was nothing racist in it. The point is that peace marchers are now being perceived by the American public as stereotypes, and thus can be dismissed. Civil rights marchers dressed in the garb that was considered upper class and respectable and thus the stereotypes generally applied to blacks could NOT BE USED AGAINST THEM.

Think.

[noiretextatique]

36. successful?!? that depends on what you consider "success"

and i take issue with your use of racist stereotypes. and you DID NOT answer my question about the sanitation worker strike. as someone else points out to you in another posts...the conventions of the time regarding dress were much different. i don't that any black people dressed like minstrels or beat jungle drums. but certainly, sharecroppers probably would look at lot like slaves :eyes:

[grasswire]

39. read back

I wonder how many millions of anti-Bush Americans don't participate in marches simply because what they see on c-span scares them.

[noiretextatique]

40. bush should SCARE them more n/t

[grasswire]

50. bush should scare them more?

Unfortunately, "should" doesn't get us anywhere.

I suspect that 60 percent of America would choose Bush over a parade of Free Mumia-Greenpeace-South American atrocities protestors, even if they oppose Bush policies.

I'm sorry. That's the reality. The left has been demonized and marginalized.

What's wrong with providing a protest that mainstream America feels comfortable joining? A focused protest against Bushco policies?

[Iris]

63. They have a right to their opinion.

And if they have no more critical thinking skills then that, than they get the government they deserve.

[G_j]

69. so now

the image of the protests will actually cause people to vote for Bush?
:shrug:
Sorry but it doesn't sound like you are exceptionally qualified to comment on "reality".

[noiretextatique]

71. PROVIDE it then

all of you bitching about the protests need to get together and do your own version. if you want something done right...

[G_j]

72. and what would they do?

turn people away if they didn't look like middle Americans? Will they hand out golf shirts and offer free haircuts? That's where the whole tongue and cheek 'dress code' concept came from. Will they tell people what signs they can carry? Well of course you can't do that, so lets just sit back and talk about how the demonstrations are useless.

[noiretextatique]

73. well, no hippies, minstrels, or "foreign-born"

allowed that's for sure :eyes: i think there would a problem with drumming as well...wouldn't want to middle americans to think of "jungle drums" :scared:

[G_j]

74. why do I get the feeling

turnout would be a problem? :shrug:

[noiretextatique]

83. sort of like those "other" rallies

maybe 20 souls, counting the 7 kids and 3 dogs :7

[Tinoire]

46. Jeez that was offensive

:puke: :puke:

If I cared enough to take the time for all these "New" Dems, I'd post pictures from a few other marches but damn, I'm not wasting my Sunday morning. I need to go work on some "puppets" for the next march. I think I'll make some huge puppets of DLC collaborators in suit and tie.

Don't you love seeing people pull photos of us to make some feeble, inaccurate point? It would have been more accurate to pull out photos of the last big anti-war marches in the US- you know the ones where all sorts of people, Black and White with body paint, were marching around wearing love beads, playing harmonicas and beating tambourines.

http://web.archive.org/web/20001203055400/

Missed you yesterday btw, the march was great but the tone is getting angrier. "Leftist retards" are coming out from all over the place - ANGRY and PISSED OFF; the anger feels so much more compact now. People happy with the status quo have reason to feel threatened by all these Leftist Retards. We're gonna do a lot more than embarrass them- we're going to SHAME them.

[Ardee]

62. Hey Tinoire

Where did you get that photo? The guy in the upper right hand corner, face partially obscured, looks a hell of lot like yours truly.....at least back then.

[Tinoire]

88. You're kidding! Here you go!

Took me about 10 minutes to go through today's history but for you my friend- just ask and ye shall recieve.

http://www.wellesley.edu/Polisci/wj/Vietnam/ThreeImages/brady.html

Now this is too cool. Which one looks like yours truly? Even if it isn't, I'd love to know what you look(ed) like!

Peace

http://web.archive.org/web/20001203055400/

Peace

http://web.archive.org/web/20001203055400/

Peace

http://web.archive.org/web/20001203055400/

PEACE!

[G_j]

66. love the puppet concept!

quite an image, thanks for the smile!

:-)

and yes that remark was offensive...

:-(

[Tinoire]

89. Lol- Now just keep your fingers crossed that

I still remember papier-mache 101!

Peace :)

[gristy]

34. Most men wore jackets and ties in those days

Look at any photo of the crowd at a baseball game back then. The times have changed. Obviously.

[G_j]

44. true

and today someone putting on a nice tie-dye could be roughly the same thing.

[G_j]

37. why would people

dress like paradies and stereotypes of themselves? That's not what anyone is doing to my knowledge. I guess there is the occasional "plant" who dresses as what he thinks a "hippie" looks like, but I don't understand your analogy.

[noiretextatique]

38. that's because it's idiotic

a truly white-washed and romaticized "noble savage" version of the civil rights movement :puke:

[grasswire]

41. the point isn't that...

...people would dress like parodies of themselves. The point is that America dismisses the marches because of that appearance.

Look, the "hippie" is not generally received with admiration in America. Anything the "hippie" does is written off. That's reality.

[G_j]

47. I actually don't agree with that

I suppose you'd have to take a survey. And then again it depends on what "hippie" means to any given person. Are you talking about hair length, dreadlocks, clothes? What is a hippie?

[grasswire]

49. "hippie"...

...in this argument is what America perceives to be a hippie. Not what you or I think is a hippie.

Again, what is the purpose of the protest? To influence Americans regarding WH policy?

I'm telling you that probably sixty percent of America dismisses the protests because of the lack of a unified message and because AMERICA dismisses "hippies" as loony.

Now, if the purpose of the protest is to get out and have a great time with other people who are of like mind, then say so.

Just don't be thinking that policy will radically change until middle America is in the streets. And middle America ain't going in the street with ANSWER. Na ga da.

[G_j]

51. there are "hippies" in middle America

as well as anywhere else.

But it's not only about reaching the average Joe or getting together for moral support. It is these things but also about sending a message to the admin., the media and the rest of the world. And no matter what you say, I believe they are getting the message. They know we are what is called "people power" we have courage, we are well informed, we won't shut up and we won't back down. The message is far from lost.

[Zorra]

68. I see your point, but

at the WTO protest in Seattle, a main objective was to bring the attention of the world to the WTO. It worked, and the turtle suits got a lot of press. I think a main objective of protesting is to draw more attention to problems, which outrageousness can often do.
Jim Morrison was a master at this. I remember, at a concert in Miami, Morrison was AFU and shouted out, "You're all a bunch of fucking slaves!" (among other things) which landed him in court, and got a lot of long term media attention. Morrison, despite his publicly perceived eccentricity and apparent self-destructiveness, definitely had an agenda, and it was not to bring more attention to himself and The Doors. It was to raise general awareness.

You are correct, I believe, when you say that a protest is not a party. But there always seems to be a measure of mutual support and celebration in the solidarity of protest which is difficult to suppress.

I think a main problem in the US is that, ever since the Reagan era began, the media and the workplace have relentlessly tried to homogenize people, and have consistently tried to make anything but "being and looking normal" the only acceptable way of being. "Hippies" have been denigrated constantly since that time. So, IMO, Middle America has a false, deliberately altered perception of what "hippies", and protesters, are. Should protesters alter their appearance and behavior in order to get in line with "Middle Americas" skewed expectations and belief systems? It was not middle America marching marching to protest Vietnam. It was the "loonies". It is not Middle America that changes the world for the better. It is the "loonies". Appeasement is rarely effective, IMO.

"Hippies" generally do not espouse the values of Middle America. It is Middle America that does not protest war, that does not challenge a malignant status quo. "Hippies" do, and they do not want to be like "Middle Americans". Middle America has been a staunch, (though deliberately uninformed or misinformed), supporter of war, and corporate despotism. If anyone is truly loony, it is Middle America, those that repeat the same behavior over and over and expect different results. IMO, the "Stepford Families", particularly younger folks, need to see that there is an alternative way of thinking and being. Protesters can help do this while getting their message out there.

IMO, Middle America never has, and never will, go into the streets. They will be content to graze, in their sheeplike hobbit pasture in front of the television, while the world goes to hell in a handbasket, until things get so bad that they lose their slice of the pie. "The full belly never grumbles".

I tend to agree with Subcomandante Marcos, a very experienced and successful protester:

"But resistance does not only exist in the mountains of Southeast Mexico against neoliberalism. In other parts of mexico, in latin America, in the United States and Canada, in the Europe which belogs to the Treaty of Masstrich, in Africa, in Asia, in Oceania, the pockets of resistance multiply. Each one of them has its own history, its differences, its equalities, its demands, its struggles, its accomplishments.

If humanity still has hope of survival, of being better, that hope is in the pockets formed by the excluded ones, the left-overs, the ones who are disposible.

This is a model for a pocket of resistance, but don't pay too much attention to it. There are as many models as there are resistances, and as many worlds as in the world. So draw the model you prefer. As far as this things about the pockets is concerned, they are rich in diversity, as are the resistances."

http://flag.blackened.net/revolt/mexico/ezln/1997/jigsaw.html

[EastofEdon]

79. "Appeasement is rarely effective "

that says it all.

[psychopomp]

114. If S. Marcos wrote that essay

it should be no surprise that the Zapatistas could think that they could take on the PRI (Mexican govt). I skimmed the link and it is quite brilliant analysis (Marxist).

[Zorra]

118. I agree.

It is a great analysis of economic globalization.

[Ardee]

61. My Goodness what an unfortunate choice of image....

I will quickly gloss over that which will remain nameless and simply point out that the civil rights movement of which you misspeak firstly seems to have passed you by and secondly was of a different era thus the choice of clothing reflects only the time and not what you so ineptly seek to affirm.

Tiger skins and drums oh my.........

[RuB]

31. Black suit, skinny black tie, dark sunglasses?

that would make them happy. The right wing is only happy with a lockstep mentality.

[htuttle]

43. That would be a far more interesting image...

...if we could come up with 100,000 Agent Smith masks.




:evilgrin:

[ForrestGump]

105. Black suit, skinny tie, sunglasses

Forget the uber-Fed, dude...these guys are amuch more righteous role model:



They're on a mission from The Deity-Of-Your-Choice.

[DemBones DemBones]

35. Look at the photo that Newsjock linked in post #9

and behold the frightening folks who oppose us! And note that you can rate it -- I rated it a 5 because I'd like it to be widely circulated. In my opinion, a lot of people who might think some of the anti-war crowd looked scruffy would be far more appalled at the sign that the anti-anti-war protester was holding in the photo.

I don't think a dress code is needed but the speakers could use some restraint. I only watched the end of the rally but got to hear "Fuck George Bush" said on C-SPAN. That would offend a lot of people, people who wouldn't have been offended by "Screw George Bush" or "Go to hell, George Bush."

[cally]

48. Absolutely not

To anyone who actually attends the marches, you will see a large cross section of folks. We are diverse! It's exhiliarating to be such a large crowd with so many different viewpoints.

[juajen]

52. Ok, already

Yes, I felt a twinge of dismay at some of the speakers and marchers at the rally. However, I recognized it as a leftover from my elitist caucasian southern mentality. I have diligently tried to erase these prejudices from my heart and being in years past, but, obviously, they come out at wierd times.

I don't remember being enamoured of the look of freepers marching either. So, I'll take our diversity and love it, and kick the twinges into the back of my mind where they belong. If we judge people by how they dress and sound we are no better than the pugs with their supercilious hypocricy. The freepers aren't representative of the whole republican party and neither are some of the fringes of our party representative of all of us. Yet, in some respects, we all fit together and are the democratic party.

I embrace this and encourage all of you detractors to do the same. If we don't shut up about this, it will be all over the news "Wellstone" like before we can count to ten. Let's not let the pugs make hay over our march. This was a "Bring the Troops Home" rally. Let's leave it at that, PLEASE.

[HEyHEY]

54. not an official code but people need to use their heads

"Every peace march seems to have it's critics. One complaint that we hear is about the "image" progected to the public by people who look too "weird" and not like "mainstream" Americans."


Well, if you trying to sway the opinion of mainstream America, you have to show yourself to the as being like them. So, it's best to just throw on jeans and a t-shirt. That way they'll think "hey, maybe there IS something to this"

Everyone dressing like freaks gives them an excuse to disregard what is being said as "Freak talk"

I covered a lot of anti-poverty and anti-war protests last year and the begining of this year. I always saw these people dressed as pixies or birds carrying signs. I used to just think, "Jesus no-one is going to take you seriously."

[jonnyblitz]

55. oh please do tell us how a freak dresses.

should I take out my piercings and cover my tattoos and not wear all black?!?!

[HEyHEY]

56. umm...I already explained that

"I always saw these people dressed as pixies or birds"

Did you read my whole post?

[grasswire]

57. freaks......

.....is what middle America thinks is freaks, if you're trying to convince middle America to align with your arguments. Doesn't matter what you think or what I think is freaks. It matters what the intended audience thinks is freaks.

[maxanne]

64. horse hockey

Maybe we could come up with an officially sanctioned "Demonstration Uniform," and all march in formation. We could have drum majors and drill teams - heck, we could have bands and floats too.

The "freak" excuse is just that - an excuse. Middle America isn't going to get involved until they are personally affected. Till they lose a job, a pension, a kid, or the privilege of driving an SUV. How folks dress at protests isn't going to sway them one iota.

Do you think Joe and Mrs. Six Pack are sitting in Des Moines watching the news and saying, "Gee honey, I really have a lot of intellectual affinity with those demonstrators, but I don't think I can join them because they're badly dressed?" :eyes:

[HEyHEY]

75. no..what they are doing is .....

What they're saying is, "Look at these fucking freaks"...and dismissing them before they even hear what they have to say.

People who think dressing up like a bumble bee will somehow make mister 9-5 joe American want to get involved in their cause are wrong...it's that simple.

[G_j]

77. that's your opinion of course

remember many out there were brought up watching Big Bird. Some people just might find the costumes and puppets endearing. Seriously, the police have preemptively destroyed puppets in the past. Some Americans find these things non threatening and may actually enjoy seeing them.
Are you sure it's not actually you who feels threatened by someone in a bumble bee costume?

[jsmacdonald]

84. Right on

And all this talk about winning middle America over....arrrgh... You don't win them over by becoming like them in every accidental detail. That kind of win is only in name only. That kind of win is winning at the expense of yourself. In fact, when we make images like this substantial and give in to their fear of them, we are becoming in fact part of the problem. I'd have no problem wearing jeans and a t-shirt; that's what I usually wear. I even wear suits to work, occasionally. However, when we tell ourselves that we CAN'T wear these things because it will send the wrong message to middle America, then that's the wrong message. We need to foster the spirit that creativity and diversity and tolerance are just the sorts of things that are bringing smiles to our faces. And, if they're frowning, then they are the ones missing out and continuing to fight their senseless wars overseas.

When did "freak" become a bad word again, anyhow?

Thanks for the sanity,

Quite seriously,

Jim

[HEyHEY]

87. The fact is we live in a world

Where if oyu want to be taken seriously, you have to appear serious. And to most people dressing up like a muppet, isn't serous. Like it or not. And when people who are already the type to shy away from such things see that...they will shy away from it too.

[jsmacdonald]

90. Then, the world is laughable

So dress up, have fun, and take that road for truly serious thinking and being. See for instance the relationship of play to philosophy in Plato's Phaedrus if you want a better take on what my point is.

We don't end the madness of the world by joining in their madness, and a world that judges truth on a look, or sees seriosness or frivolity in an instant, is certainly mad. It may be the world we live in, but there are certainly creatively ghoulish ways we can react to it.

Jim

[G_j]

94. creativity is

one our strongest assets. Thank you for the reminder. They may have the weapons, the money, the power, but one thing they aren't is creative.

[HEyHEY]

111. Good qoute but

I would hardly call dressing down "Madness" I just think that when you go to make a point the first thing you need to have is the respect of the person you are making the point to. Many...many people simply don't respect that kind of thing....are we out to stop a war, or out to say "Yeah we're different...gotta problem?"

I figure just show up dress the way you would show up at work. :shrug:

[jsmacdonald]

132. I think there is a false distinction behind your question

Many people surely don't respect people who dress up differently than they believe is right or appropriate. Many of those same people might listen to you if you got past their prerequisite hangups. Let's grant those premises because I think they aren't very controversial. What has been controversial is what those premises imply, and others have done a good job of suggesting different implications.

But, let's also consider what set of questions you think follow from your premises, namely that we are faced with a choice. "Either we respect Middle America's prerequisites to take you seriously and possibly stop a war," or "Self righteously insist upon your difference, but fail to stop a war." From those questions, you suggest we follow the former.

Now, there's a lot behind this that needs thinking through. I won't do that here, though perhaps we can develop the conversation. One, is the purpose of a peace march necessarily only to speak to the rest of the world outside the demonstration? That is, might it be a more important purpose of a peace demonstration to foster a communal set of networks for those attending the demonstration. I can tell you, for instance, that dressing like a zombie led many, many strangers both inside (and possibly to your surprise outside) the rally to have cordial conversations with me. It broke down walls between strangers and fostered that communal spirit necessary for stopping wars, especially in the future.

Two, if people will not respect you because of the way you dress, then it's not clear how much they will understand you when you've earned their respect. I suppose you might say that to dress the way Middle America finds appropriate is linguistic. We don't speak English to a Chinese speaker and expect them to understand us. Dress may be argued to be part of the social language. Yet, that argument seems to me rather anachronistic. In truth, we have an anarchy of fashion (which is probably for the best). We are well past the time in this society where dress codes mean an awful lot. I used to wear a tie every day to work, and now I occasionally wear tennis shoes, and few think less of me because of it. We are in a situation where some think more, some think less, and many more simply don't care. My point is is that people have no excuse in today's age for thinking that there is a single social language expressed by dress. It's not a matter of respect; it's a matter of our world being extremely muddled. And, now that it is muddled, we have every chance to change the dialogue, to embrace difference and diversity as a vehicle toward a peaceful society. So, in short, if they fail to understand this, it's not clear how rational these people are anyhow. So, they may listen, they may "respect" you, they may even for bad reasons on occasion join your side, but peace in the long run will not be served.

Three, There is a union between diversity and respect that I think your distinction misses. I wonder if it is possible for someone to respect you in all honesty if they cannot appreciate difference. In fact, it is that failure that I think leads to wars. So, there may well be a contradiction lurking in the idea that we can win respect of people who don't understand what true respect entails, or stop a war when arbitrarily setting up value distinctions over such differences is in some ways the root cause of many wars.

These are my basic arguments. Ultimately, I find the first reason the most telling. We have a tendency to assume that our aim is to convince others outside of our rally, rather than build toward the outside from within. We are building a community from within, and in today's age, that community can reach out and bring more inside because so much about our world has changed and made it ripe for just this kind of movement, where creativity and artistic expression have hope to come to the fore of what a peace movement means.

Jim
http://www.yellowstonemagic.com/peace

[G_j]

91. still your opinion of the way the world works

Humor can be quite effective. Lenny Bruce and Al Frankin come to mind, but there are many examples.

[HEyHEY]

110. you can't play the opinion card

Yes that is my opinion...you have yours...we are discussing the differences between them. Ya can't brush it off buy saying...that's your opinion. Otherwise..why are we here. ;-)

[G_j]

119. I simply disagree

you keep stating 'that's the way the world is' as a fact. I don't agree. It appears we are at a stalemate.
Our ideas about how people perceive things are plainly different. There's not much more than can be said,
sort of feels like we've exhausted the subject.

peace

[foo_bar]

123. Lenny Bruce wore suits

if he dressed like a beatnik he'd probably be alive.

[HEyHEY]

85. come on

I don't feel threatened I feel embarrassed for the shmcuk wearing it.

[G_j]

93. the point is

not everyone thinks like you. There are many ways to get people to let down their guard so that they might listen to a message. Psychology comes into play.
In Seattle people loved the turtles and they got some of the more postitive media attention.

[maxanne]

101. well, don't project

your discomfort and judgmental attitude onto everyone else. There is no need for you to be embarassed by what other people wear. Be embarassed for our all of us that we have a leader who can't speak his native tongue. Stop criticizing the folks who are trying to change that - and keep your eyes on the prize. Remember who the REAL enemies are.

[laura888]

102. I agree with you! Dressing up distracts from the message.

People will take you seriously when you wear something other than a halloween costume.

Hey, I know its not as fun, but what's the purpose of the march?

[screembloodymurder]

58. Hey

don't take it personally.

[HEyHEY]

59. I've never understood

WHy people get so bent out of shape because someone makes a comment, or a joke about there dress style. I mean for christ's sake some people act like they were born that way and they're being repressed. I think many just dress up all gothy so they have more chances to get indignant about little comments.

As If someone with piercings and tattoos never pass a joke or comment about a guy wearing a sportcoat and fedora.

[Iris]

65. Perhaps middle America cannot take "freaks" and "hippies" seriously

because their children look like "freaks" and "hippies" with their body art and piercings and style handed down to them from magazines. I guess listening to adults that looked like this would make "middle America" feel like they were listening to their children.

[Selwynn]

80. I believe we can overcome this obstacle by the quality of....

...our message.

I think that at first, "appearance" or different cultural backgrounds is sometimes an obstacle for persuasive communicaiton. But I think that it is only a small obstacle overall. The biggest obstacle is in communicating our message brilliantly and in a non-threatening, rational, mature, compassionate and sincere sort of way.

When rallys are about nothing more than yelling and screaming about how much we hate somethign or someone, there is little in the message that would cause someone on the sidelines to look past any traditional cultural barriers. However, when the message that is expressed is one of depth, of serious passion and intellect, one in which a case for positive change is expressed along with thoughful but rational criticism, where the message is one of hope, and for the future, and one that is filled with compassion -- this kind of message trancends the barriers of culture I believe, and will indeed cross barriers to speak to the people who need the message most. And I believe they will grow to respect the movement not because everyone looks exactly like them, becasue they don't, they won't and we should thank god for that fact. But instead, they will grow to respect the movement becasue of the quality, poise and power of a message of hope for the future and meaningful change, working together.

If someone tried to put on a bunch of clothes that weren't them so that they could "convince" me of their position - I will dismiss them in a heartbeat. If somone spoke to me passioantely from their heart about thigns they truly believed in, i'd be interested and willing to listen, even if they looked completely alien to me in every way.

[JasonBerry]

67. I Remember the old Progressive Labor Party

I remember the PLP of the sixties and seventies - a very hardline Trotskyist group that preached the clean cut. They were highly "disciplined" and believed that America would only buy into communism if the communist movement "looked like" America. I don't even know if the PLP is still around, but I remember their disdain for the "hippies"..........

[CWebster]

70. No, it isn't that...

And I have been a loud and consistant supporter of ANSWER. This was the first demo I didn't attend, but I caught a bit of it on C-Span and cringed. I understand the "Raving Grannies" and Sharpton were great but I caught a series of shrieking adolescents spouting Leftist boilerplate and some pompous official attempt to deny one of the guests his speaking slot.

I appreciate ANSWER's consistant effort and organizing ability but I am annoyed with their grating ego theatrics which alienate a greater audience with their dominating agenda.

[Selwynn]

76. NO - we overcome, not captitulate!

Diversity is good. You don't set that aside and take the low road just becasue you think you can sleeze a little more support that way. Support for what? For people that are ashamed of their true colors? For people that will definately not be there to support YOU if you are ever labled "on the fringe" by the RW becuase they're too busy trying to look just like them.

NO. No. No. No. No. A thousand times NO!

[jsmacdonald]

82. I was dressed as a zombie yesterday

Some of you have seen my peace pictures and narrative at http://www.yellowstonemagic.com/peace . Anyhow, I was dressed up like a complete freak. One complaint from someone against the war who saw my pictures was that war is serious business and this detracts from it. He proceeded to call me shallow and then refused to read my narrative based on the offense he took at my thinking it was fun to dress up to a protest.

What a stupid world we live in, where the image becomes the message, and so particular images are okay or not okay to such an extreme. One reason to dress up is to toy defiantly at the substantiation of images themselves. You need a sense of humor about it, or you'll go mad.

Jim

[Zorra]

86. Thanks

For the pictures.:hi:

Cranberries Zombie lyrics
Another head hangs lowly
Child is slowly taken
And the violence caused such silence
Who are we mistaken

But you see it's not me,
it's not my family
In your head, in your
head they are fighting
With their tanks and their bombs
And their bombs and their guns
In your head,
In your head they are cryin'
In your head
Zombie
What's in your head, in your head
Zombie

Another mother's breakin'
heart is taking over
when the violence causes silence
We must be mistaken
It's the same old theme since 1916
In your head,
In your head they're still fightin'
With their tanks and their bombs
And their bombs and their guns
In your head they are dyin'

In your head, in your head
Zombie
What's in your head, in your head
Zombie

[jsmacdonald]

96. That song would have worked for my narrative, too

If he hadn't been talking about the Twilight Zone, Zombie would have been just as good.

Thanks,

Jim

[noiretextatique]

92. our collective obsesssion with "appearance" and "etiquette"

is actally a big part of the problem we face. recall the officlal repponse of the democratic party to the coup: "we strongly disagree" :puffpiece: and look at what happens to courageous people who dare to speak out...like cynthia mckinney. she got skewered by her own party...a party that has YET to address the problems she spoke out about, btw. :nuke: comformity, for the sake of confirmity does amount to a hill of beans. and the rw doesn't give a SHIT about appearance or etiquette...which is why they win. they are like rabid dogs. when you have a rabid dog on your ass, dressing nicely and keeping up appearances won't save you.

[CWebster]

97. Conformity on the Left

Why do the opposition's work of marginalizing the Left when the Left is willing to marginalize itself by confining its appeal to a limited audience? It caters to a very narrow cross-section instead of a more populus inclusion. Where's the diversity in that? The diversity is illusion--all the fashion statements are the same in their uniqueness. Ever notice the conformity?

[jsmacdonald]

98. that stereotype is well off the reality

I have worn suits to my anti-war activist meetings, and no one has thought the worse of me. There were suits at an anti-war activist party Friday night, and on one thought the worse of them.

There were all types of dress at yesterday's demonstration, and no one was excluded or thought less of because of it.

Those who were dressed more outrageously got our pictures taken by other demonstrators a few more times, sure enough. There are issues involved with that that I write about in my own narrative (which is anything but frivolous for those of you who have read it). However, every type of person was at our event. And, as much as I have worried about the question of the conformity of the left, discussions like this have reminded me that we are far from being this caricature. This in fact makes me want to temper some of the points I made in my narrative, which begins with a scenario suggested by just this kind of post.

Jim

[CWebster]

100. I don't care how anyone dresses or street theatre

and that really isn't the issue so much as the production package that the Left presents to the entire country.

Screaming zealots that can't stay on mark and only serve to polarize. Real fucking effective. Psych-ops penetration and influence couldn't be more effective at rendering it all irrelevant.

[veganwitch]

99. i LIKE getting dressed up

i was with the black bloc for a bit (and filming them quasi-arresting a group). i rarely get to do that during any other time.

and as much work as putting those rallies are, why dress like we are going to work? wheres the joy? the theatre?

*decides to wear more black as much as possible*

[jonnyblitz]

115. I always were black. n/t

[laura888]

103. I suspect that the difference in opinion here might be related to age

I'm not speaking for everyone in my age group, but...

Being near 40, I've been out in the world some, and know the power of a nicely, dressed professional appearance. Whether its a sales call or a meeting, or a dinner engagement, dressing nicely shows that you a) take this event seriously and b) you care what people think.

If you dress sloppily, dress garishly, or in general, dress absolutely just to please yourself, you will NOT make as good an impression.

Sure, you might say that your audience should lighten up and just accept you.... but you want them to LISTEN TO YOU. You will earn people's respect when you show you care what they think.

[noiretextatique]

104. i'm 44...and that's bullshit

clothes are superficial, as are the people who judge others by what they wear. i am no different in a business suit than i am in jeans...i am no less effective as a worker, and no less human. if i have to dress a certain way to "earn" someone's respect...i can probably live without it.

[laura888]

108. sorry, but many, many many people DO judge people by how they look

you're right - you may be the same underneath, but sadly, people often don't take the time to try to see that.

They'll judge you by their first impressions, whether you like it or not, and accept or dismiss you based solely on that.

If you're saying you don't care what those people think (the ones who don't see beyond the superficial), then the size of your audience who might listen to you will shrink considerably.

Is that really what you want?

[noiretextatique]

116. i don't care what they think, that is correct

look...when your house is burning down, are you going to worry about which clothes you grab as you run out of the house...so you can impress your neighbors? given the seriousness of what is going on in this country, given the seriousness of the war...those who are focused on grabbing the gucci suits as their house burns down...well, it seems to me those folks just might have their priorities screwed up. as someone else mentioned...it only takes 1% to force change. i'd rather focus on convincing some of my friends HERE to get that one percent...vs. people who are worried about dressing nicely as the country goes to hell. i think we have to face the facts...some people have their priorities so screwed up...there is no convincing them. perhaps places like DU can give america that one percent it needs. peace.

[laura888]

127. what battle do you want to fight? I only have energy for one.

Do you want to convince people that dressing up is ok, or do you want to convince people that we need to set things right in the middle east and get Bush out of office?

Pick your battles, cause you only have energy for so many.

Like or not, there are millions of people who will dismiss the entire event AND THE CAUSE (that's important) if they see that most of those participating are dressed up in masks, costumes, etc. etc.

You can argue with me and change my mind right now, but how long is it going to convince the millions of others to change theirs?

We don't have time for that, buddy! If you're really, really concerned about your house burning down, I would think you would want to reach as many people as possible TODAY!

[screembloodymurder]

106. Should peace protestors be WASP registered

democrats.

[jiacinto]

107. People will miss the point

Those freaks dressed in black do discredit the issues the larger group represents. But no one here will admit to that.

[noiretextatique]

109. people don't give a shit!!! all the whiners won't admit that

because the people who do care are out there in the streets, or supporting those who are. the rest are either bitching about those who are in the streets, or discussing j-lo's next boyfriend.

[HEyHEY]

112. Excellent point Jiacinto

ANd hey...dressing up like it's halloween gives peopl an excuse to dismiss the group and change the channel to see what's up with beniffer.

[noiretextatique]

117. those people will dismiss it anyway

if you have any doubt...just look at the posts HERE. do you honestly think dressing "nicely" will win you friends and influence people who either are too busying worrying about what j-lo is wearing to even notice, or who don't care one way or the other, or who, like the freepers, actually support the war? this arugment just doesn't make any sense.

[HEyHEY]

120. Well, what gives you a better chance...

Approaching the public dressed like a duck...or dressed the way you would be at work or something.

Put it this way..who would you buy an insurance policy from first..the duck or the other guy?

What doesn't make sense is preachig to the converted. This isn't a game...this isn't dress up and express your creativity time...people are dying, we're trying to stop it. To do that you gotta go big tent. To go big tent you gotta seem average.

[G_j]

121. we are clearly going in circles

again, you say we "gotta". I say we don't gotta. :shrug: You'll say people will only listen to someone dressed like an insurance salesman. I'll say we aren't selling insurance.
It's getting pointless.

[HEyHEY]

122. I thought you and I were done up there....

I was speaking to the other person...how bout you and I agree to disagree...head to the pub have some wings and a couple rounds. And then we can come back and argue this thread to separate folks. ;-)

Of course I think it's pretty well just you and I left on this one.
But seriously folks.........

[Zorra]

124. Speaking only for myself,

I protest to raise public awareness, to help bring an issue to the forefront of public awareness. I want to make people think about the issue that I am protesting. I am not trying to preach to anyone. I don't have the power or resources to personally confront an entire nation with my logical and irrefutable arguments. But when joining with enough like minded others in protest, I can force the nation think about an issue. Even if it is only for a moment.

In the case of war, when 30,000 people gather in one place, such as Washington, and 15,000 more gather in another place, such as San Francisco, it makes national and world news. Hopefully, this news makes people think about the war. Maybe they think about why so many people are protesting the war. It is my hope that these people, when confronted with the issue of war, will think about it more than they normally do.

By raising this issue in people's consciousness, it is possible that, in the process of their thinking, some of these people will come to the conclusion that war is wrong.

Mass protest sends a message, an expression of mass opinion, a collective letter to the editor of a worldwide newspaper that almost everyone is forced to read. Our opinion is that war is wrong. Now think about it.

Many people dress symbolically at protests, and though their individual voices may not be heard, the symbolism in their appearance is seen, and may help attract more attention. I'm going to get more of a point across if I am carrying the effigy of a bloody, mutilated child in my arms than I am by wearing an Armani. But IMO, the issue of how people present themselves at protest is a minimal one.

I could not make it to this last protest. But I'd like to thank everyone who protested. You were successful in making our voice heard around the world. Well done.

[Isome]

125. What people forget

What was seen on the streets of D.C. is what "most" of America looks like, dresses like. They also forget the need to resist conforming to superficial expectations, that inevitably change when people resist them.

Middle America isn't as sheltered or unaware as some people seem to believe. There was no mode of dress or style of hair that hasn't been seen and probably worn in middle America. People need to realize that though they may live in a tiny little homogenous town, with cookie-cutter people, who wear the same style of clothing, and live in look-alike housing, the rest of the country does not.

I have to add, that I don't think the point of that protest was to influence middle America, it was to let the powers that be know that Americans, of all stripes, are taking them to task! Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

[Isome]

126. no one cares about dress

x-cept for those who can always be counted on to act as timid reactionaries... the same type of skittish behavior that leads the party to defeat at the polls and can't coherently beat back an attack from screaming rethugs!!

WAPO write-up:

"The demonstrators represented a diverse mix of dissent, from suburban high school students to gray-haired retirees, from fathers pushing their children in strollers to Muslim American college students shouting through bullhorns. ..."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A17636-2003Oct25.html

people need to grow a spine and stop being so concerned about the superficial garbage from their image-conscious youth... like clothes.

[rman]

128. neocons, BFEE wear suit and tie

yet we know they can't be trusted.

Why would one not take seriously someone who is dressed 'different'?

[laura888]

130. "we" know that suits and ties are no guarantee of trustworthiness...

...and that those who dress up in costumes should be listened to.

But "they" may not even allow the costumed people to open their mouths because they will dismiss them in a second.

Here are some people that you might fail to reach if you're wearing a costume:

-70-year-old grandmothers
-The immigrant family who work 70 hours a week at their corner store
- the 55-year-old factory worker who has been laid off in Georgia
- single mothers working 2 jobs to pay the rent
- many millions of others who think that those wearing costumes are frivolous merry-makers who have time (and money) on their hands to plan a costume.

are you really saying "I don't care whether these guys listen to me or not."

But if you show up in a plain white t-shirt and jeans - they may listen to you.

[Piperay]

129. I always dressed nicely

when I did awhole lot of protesting during the Raygun/Bushie1 "dirty dozen" years. One reason was I wanted to blend in in case I wanted to mix with the other side and get info, I also got less harassment from the police and counter-protesters plus I felt that passer-bys would be more open to the message. JMO

[OldSoldier]

131. Absolutely. Clean clothes in good repair.

If you show up to a peace march in torn-up, dirty clothes, the RW press is going to focus on you to show that peace marches are just a couple of scroungy old hippies who can't give up the sixties. And ignore the million other people standing next to you who weren't even alive in the sixties.

Clean clothes with no holes in them, please. What kind of clothes is up to you.