These Democrats are an awesome bunch

[gottaB]

Every single one of them. And so are you.

That's how I felt after the debate last night.

Many people claim they're ABB but in their hearts they're unsure of say Sharpton or Lieberman or Kucinich or Clark or.... That's understandable. We all have emotional investments in the candidates, political agendas we want to see advanced. The differences we see are vital to us, and they are magnified by our enthusiasm. The thought of losing such a large part of our political identity can be overwhelming.

Meanwhile, our energy is converging. All the candidates want to draw from it because it will advance their ambitions, of course, but also because it is the key to political victory in 2004. This is an aspect of our political consciousness that we must not lose touch with, because it is essential to making genuine progress for all of us who are opposed to everything the Republican failure to govern represents.

Did you notice Edwards budging on the PATRIOT act? Did you notice the change in the way Kucinich addressed the issue of getting out of Iraq? Did you notice that Lieberman was critical of Bush's foreign policy? And on and on. It is my belief that the candidates are listening to each other, and of course, to us, their supporters, and modifying their messages and platforms accordingly. The primary process is working to define our platform democratically.

Most of us will not be in full agreement with the eventual nominee, but our energy will be there. Open your eyes to the differences between the Democrats and the pResident. Whomever receives the nomination, your essential political identity will not be without representation.

ABB, you all.

Peace.

[Asak]

1. We have no power...we ceded it a long time ago.

It doesn't really matter anyway. For a few minutes I deluded myself into thinking that maybe there was a chance for things to change in 2004. But, then I woke up.

Face it, the country is already so far gone that nothing can bring it back. Corporations own all the politicians and Bush will be reelected because he is a corporate pawn. All those in power (and I'm talking about the ones really in power, not the puppet) are concerned with is playing the people against one another, and they are so stupid it works. We have the most poorly designed democratic system in the entire world, which results in "all or nothing" elections, so that the electorate's wide spectrum of views are not reflected. In a Parliamentary system you'd have multiple parties with various amounts of representation, with no one having a true majority so TRUE compromise would actually be required, and the result would reflect the will of the people.

The only thing that will take back this country is a violent revolution. And, much as I agree with the NRA and there atempt to preserve our right to bear arms, the truth is: at best citizens have assault rifles (and they've been banned), meanwhile the army has tanks and jets. In short, we're well on our way to becoming a dictatorship, if we haven't already. Only no one will admit it. Officially we'll still have a democracy, and the media will continue to brainwash people into believing they have the power. But, in reality they don't because they are too stupid to exercise their voting rights, or see through the propaganda.

I have to hand it to the ruling class. For 6000 years of human history, the lower classes have struggled for self determination. But now, finally, they have succeeded in achieving the ultimate social order. Not only do they still hold all the power, but now they have fooled the people into believing they are "free". It's beautiful, in sort of a disgusting way.

[Tyler Durden]

2. 'twas EVER thus.

Read Plato's REPUBLIC. Read the Comentaries of Julius Caesar. DIVIDE AND CONQUER has always been the way that the ruling aristocracies maintain their power: make the factions prowerful and they will be too busy fighting each other to fight the rulers.

This was a grand experiment, but as my family doctor (a TRUE conservative; not a neocon) and I agree, EVERYTHING is born, has a lifespan, declines and goes into demise. This is especially true for Republics which have a notoriously short lifetime: ours has broken the Athenian, Roman, and Hanseatic League records by quite a few years. All the indicators, including the worst one (the Richest/Poorest sectors economic gap) are far beyond what has been necessary in the past for the fall of republic. My opinion is that the speed of communication, the industrial revolution (Part X), and the wars of this century have artificially maintained this one.

We are living on borrowed time, and if I were the Canadians, I'd be making plans to drop the bridges, dynamite the tunnels, and mine the border approaches. When this government eventually collapses (as all governments do), it would be wise to be ready for the invasion.

[sventvkg]

3. damn!!! These are MY Deep dark thoughts as well....

Many do not share these opinions on these boards but nontheless, I believe it to be true also..I feel we are nearthe end although I would pray that the end is further away then say a decade but alas, I really feel it's close....

[Tyler Durden]

4. I've always believed it was inevitable...

...I had just hoped that the transition would wait until I was dead and would be relatively painless.

Fat chance of THAT.

[Brucey]

5. I agree with you Asak, and welcome to DU.

You are right about the power. Years ago there was a genre of books called "mirrors for princes" that simply explained how to rule people. The same thing happens today. Bush and friends are very savvy about how to manipulate the masses. And unfortunatley, they are willing to do anything; they have no consciences. That is what is different about them. Like Nixon, they don't care. However, we have one thing they can't completely control: education. We can use our voices, protests, Internet, letters, etc. to inform people about what's going on. A violent uprising would be ridiculous. The gun-nuts are completely insane to think that they need their guns as protection against the government's airplanes, tanks, police forces, National Guard, military, assault weapons, rockets, etc. That is not why they want their guns. Anyway, you could never get a brain-washed group like Americans to revolt against their government. The genius of those in power is that they have convinced the American everyman that they deserve to be in power, have won fairly, and are morally right. Of course, this in nonsense. We can inform and educate. That is our only hope. We likely will not win in 2004, but we can maybe make inroads. Keep educating.

[RichM]

6. Exactly right.

An essential part of the "disgusting beauty" you so accurately describe is the role played by the Democratic Party in the general deception. The fact that so many people (most on this board, for example) continue to believe that "electing a Democrat" is some sort of salvation is testimony to how brilliant the ruling class strategy really is.

[gottaB]

7. Well, if you want to complicate things....

For starters, violence is a weak form of political action. Unless it is backed by a popular mandate, it won't accomplish its political goals. I don't see popular support for revolution in the United States. The use violence to achieve revolutionary goals would be futile in our case, or worse.

Several of the candidates have spent many years of their lives working to achieve electoral reforms, and indeed are doing so now. IRV or other more representative systems are not on the immediate horizon, but that doesn't mean there's nothing to be done to fight disenfranchisement and corruption of the process. Turning your back on current problems is not helpful.

You're never going to achieve much politically as long as you remain contemptuous of the masses of stupid fools. Oh, trust me, I know there's contempt on all sides, and among ruling elites especially. Well, what better reason to remove them and their proxies from power than their utter contempt for the people? Their utter failure to accomplish anything tangible? Their political uselessness will allow them to be pushed aside by people who'd rather see something accomplished. Contempt for the beliefs and desires of the people won't help in that regard.

[wakfs]

8. Must be a Monday morning

Man, I thought I was having a bad day.

[newyawker99]

14. Hi Asak!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[pansypoo53219]

9. doom doom doom

yes, george W will depress anyone with half a brain, but many of our guys understand they must go the grassroots way. go under the MW 'filter' that Bush is God and a moral man. there is no way people are gonna think things will get better with 4 more years. i ain't giving up on this grand experiment yet.
read imperial caddy by joe queenan. we have survived with bad rulers before. we will survive bush if we can remove him as soon as possible. NEVER NEVER NEVER give up. so Churchill said.

ABB!
TO THE RAMPARTS!

[DemExpat]

10. I also do not feel the grand experiment is over!

I'm happy with my material comforts, my opportunities, my children's opportunities, and I hope and plan to work for a more sustainable future for everybody.

Even though my heart is sometimes filled with dread that it could be 'over', I insist on retaining some optimism and hope.

:kick:

Democrats are fab compared to Repubs.

DemEx

[mrgorth]

11. I see another civil war coming

and it will either be violently crushed with the conservatives putting dissenters in camps and then invading Canada OR perhaps the sundering of both nations where both break into smaller units, like the USSR. We know that New Englanders tend to think more alike as do southerners and albertans. Rather than 2 huge nations smaller more autonomous nations might be the answer.

[ArkDem]

12. Let's see,

wasn't the USSR a group of formerly sovereign states put together by the soviets? They just regained their sovereignty when the USSR collapsed. I don't see a comparison.

[mrgorth]

13. I was only referring to the sundering part

the way the USSR has broken up. I'm not saying we're exactly like the USSR or anything.

[ArkDem]

15. Why would anyone want to invade

Canada? How do you crush a civil war? Wouldn't one side win and the others lose?