screw our feudal society. (rant)

[dawgman]

I am tired of being forced to choose between the life of a serf or the life of a landowner. Choose to be a slave with money and no real interpersonal communication or choose to be a slave with no mone or power but (if you can deal in a healthy manner with the stress of this life) some moderate interpersonal happiness.

I don't want to spend my life as a slave in one form or another to a system designed to grind the productive years out of and spit me into a retirement home where I can be forgotten by to world and left to drink myself to death.

I reject this form of "life" we have been given. I reject the rampant comsumerism that drives this world and forces me to exploit the people of the undeveloped world in order to clothe and shelter myself and my family. I reject the lie that we are a free people.

We have the illusion of freedom, nothing more. How much longer until this perversion of "free" society collapses under its own weight in the same manner that the Soviet perversion of a marxian society collapses? Wake up, and realize that toiling in anonimity and powerlessness so that the overseers can buy a new Lexus or 5,000 square foot home with the money you made for them is no way to live a life.

I reject the modern perversion of our forefather's vision.

I accept that within my lifetime I will fight for what I believe and the restoration of freedom to ALL people.

SOrry for the rant but I am really frustrated with things on all fronts right now.

[Girlfriday]

1. Maybe all we like-minded people

should move deep into the woods and start living our own vision of a free society. :)

[rudeboy666]

6. word up!

"....should move deep into the woods and start living our own vision of a free society."

All these ranters carry a big voice.

But ultimately they end up living with us stupid masses. :-)

[pnb]

2. What kind of "life" do you reject this for?

n/t

[dawgman]

5. I don't know but just about anything would be better than this

q

[Selwynn]

8. You mind if I take a stab at it ...?

A life where money and power are no longer seen as ends in and of themselves, but as means to righteous and noble ends -- to meeting the needs of the poor, to buidling a better society built on a belief in real community and inter-connected relationships rather than rugged individualism -- a place where your happiness and well being were understood to matter deeply to me, and to my neighbor and to yours.

A life where the Universal Declaration of Human Rights was revered as intensely as the Bill of Rights, and that the fundamental governing principle of government would be to protect and promoted human rights and human dignity on a global label, and where our money and influence would be made to serve those ultimate aims, not the other way around.

A life where the finer things in life - the arts, philosophy, personal exploration, culture, history and individual creativity and invention were cherished, and where the work we do in society served the contining advancemnet and betterment of society, intellectually, emotionally, relationally, and so on. A life where work wasn't alienating and exploting - where the laboror was cherished and where class divides dissolved as everyone worked together to achieve a decent life...

...hows that for starters?

[dawgman]

That's a good summation of my utopia but

I struggle with how we can get their peacefully. Every vision I have involves huge amounts of bloodshed. Of course the current situation already involves huge amount of bloodshed.

[Selwynn]

16. I do not sanction a violent revolution...but...

...I believe that the days of western society are numbered, just like the days of all other empires in history were numbered. After the fall, anything is possible. Before then? No I don't think so.

Also, on a very personal (and hopefully non-inflammatory) note, as a spiritual person, I have to confess that I don't believe a world like the one I suggested will ever be possible until there is a major change of heart within human beings, away from selfisness, greed and (as I say in my quote below) away from a lack of emphathy and persistant ignorance. If we find real love and peace inside our selves, then we can dethrone greed and powerlust from our lives and instead learn to love ourselves and others in healthy and mutual relationships.

Will that happen? I don't know. I do not believe any person or any system, no matter how great, will be able to great this kind of better society. The only thing I believe will make it possible is a radical heart change in people.

But, that's just my opinion.

[dawgman]

22. all of the current paths to the enlighted mind you describe

have unfortunately been usurped by the very greedy and hateful minds they seek to lead people away from.

[Selwynn]

23. That's because real change begins in the heart. (nt)

[Pliny The Younger]

3. Making The Choice

Most people must, at some time in their lives, decide whether they want to sacrifice their personal lives in order to earn more money and gain more power and success in the busines world...or do without some of the creature comforts and have a more satisfying personal life.

My attitude...let each person decide for themselves....but don't ask those who opted for more money to fork over any of their cash to buy the benefits you decided to do without.

[dawgman]

4. did you even read it?

They are just as much a slave as anyone else maybe even moreso because they have more to lose. I don't want any of this shit. This whole fucking thing is so corrupt as to need utter destruction and rebirth with a commitment to equality and cooperation.

[stopthegop]

7. so drop out...

why are you still online?....sell you PC and move elsewhere...no one is making you stay in the system...just leave...

or does that sound scary?

[dawgman]

9. How does one leave a global system?

One doesn't one works to change it. And why would leaving be scary? Staying and facing the next fifty years in this country seems scarier.

[DoraFan]

10. Why not

why not just off yourself?

[dawgman]

17. yeah great plan there pal.

I am suicidal because I believe that there has to be a more egalitarian way to run the world?

[stopthegop]

11. leaving would seem scary

if you were just spouting off steam, with no real idea of changing yourself or others...just as an example...

and the system isn't global...there are still places you could go and live on your own...subsistence farming somewhere...but you probably wouldn't enjoy that...you couldn't tell everyone else how wrong they were if you did that...

have a good afternoon...if you can

[dawgman]

14. What the hell are you talking about?

I can't even begin to fathom what you are saying. I have good days all the time. For the most part I am a positive, happy person with a rewarding marriage to a beautiful woman with a wonderful son. But I look at what is around us, and where we (societal we) are being led and I fear for what my child will inherit. And to whom did I say, "you are wrong"?

[stopthegop]

18. I believe you can't fathom what I said...

and..telling people who think they have pretty good live that they are actually slaves is close to telling them they're wrong (which is of course your right)...your rant just seems like a newly minted college freshman discovering life is unfair...

[dawgman]

21. Wow condescending and unable to stick to a debate

You know what, life is unfair, I have to choose what law school to go to next year, I only got a 97th percentile on the l-sat test, I can be rich someday, the problem is that I don't really want it. It just seems better than struggling for the rest of my life in a labor position (which I did while paying my OWN way through school).

I am not ranting because I am condemned to a poor (monetary) existence. I am ranting because I feel that the system we live under is fucked up and that it will take nothing less than revolutionary forces to change it. Centrist types aren't going to do it for me so I must do it for myself.

By the way close to telling someone is wrong is not telling them they are wrong.

[TheUnknownPoster]

13. some choice

"...don't ask those who opted for more money to fork over any of their cash to buy benefits you decided to do without."

So you're arguing for tax cuts for the rich then? I'm not trying to flame you or anything, that just seems to be the logical extension of your argument; that the rich shouldn't have to pay to help the poor, that one can't rob Peter to feed Paul.

[Ilsa]

12. Last week on NOW with Bill Moyers

they interviewed rev. Hough, the president of Union Theological Seminary. He denounced the fascism America is turning to, and said that Christ never would have stood for treating the poor as badly as we do, as badly as the fundamentalists do. He discussed the obscenity of CEOs making 1,000 times the average salary of the workers and their rewards for throwing hard working people out of their jobs. He is truly disgusted with it and pointed fingers at The Pretender in Chief and Tom DeLay.

So don't lose all hope.

[ArkDem]

15. Wow!

I wish I could be as optimistic as you are.

[dawgman]

20. lol

[cosmicdot]

19. many feel your angst*

*pain has been upgraded with bushwhacked frequently abused miles