Why do some people think Dean supporters are "fanatics"???

[CMT]

This isn't the first time I've heard this from some on this board and I'm a bit bewildered by it. Fanatic: someone with an excessive enthusiasm and often intense UNCRITICAL devotion.

Would you say that John F. Kennedy or Robert F. Kennedy had people who supported them excessively? or on the other side of the political spectrum--Ronald Reagan? sure. There are people who have excessive enthusiasm for Dean and in my opinion with good reason.

However, the picutre these people who say we are fanatics want to paint is one of Koolaide drinking disciples who zealously support Dean no matter what and don't see or don't want to see any short comings with him.

This is plain false. I consider myself a strong supporter of Dean yet I have problems with some of his stands on such issues as gun control and NAFTA--though some think he is evolving on this. I'm not sure.

William Pitt had a thread today which asked supporters in a unbiased way to rate the debate performances of the candidates--several Dean supporters (more than any other candidate I could see) took issue with Dean's performance and didn't rate it nearly as high as some of the other candidates.

Dean supporters support the man because overall we like what he has to say and where he wants to lead us. We are not blindly following the man and we know more than anybody that he is not a liberal messiah, but a blood and guts politician who has consistently opposed a wrong-headed war and taken on Bush--without mercy on taxes, jobs, healthcare, the environment, education, and a wide array of issues. In short, he makes me proud to be a Democrat.

I have a feeling that some of the people who want to belittle Dean supporters (and you know who you are) are lashing out at us in frustration because there candidate is not doing as well as they hope they would be. So they have to find fault with others.

[AWD]

1. It comes from many things

The main reason is that their own candidate can't find their ass with both hands.

[DrFunkenstein]

14. The Funny Thing Is...This Is A Blanket Statement

Of those little cockroaches scurrying in the night. There is no one that the Dean supporters haven't turned nasty on. Even Dennis "Department of Peace" Kucinich!!!

I went through several months of arguing civilly with Dean supporters about IWR even though there were always people (like AWD) calling Kerry really low-down names. Why? Because there were also civil Dean supporters too.

The end of the proverbial rope for me, though, was when - after months and months of attacks - the other candidates started hitting back, Dean and his supporters started crying foul.

Coming from a campaign known for its hypocrisy, this was too much.

Fortunately, you reap what you sow. The Dean supporters (not all, of course, but too many to ignore) have completely alienated the other camps. So, while they may think they are doing fantastic, they have no idea what kind of backlash is in store for them come January.

From the debates, Dean's closing statement was made directly to his grassroots people. I think that pretty much sums up why he's not going to be around next summer.

[meegbear]

2. Gee, I dunno CMT ...

could it be the constant flooding of dean posts here and the bashing whne someone disagrees?

Hmmmmm ... no, can't be that.

[blm]

4. Some but not all....

Some supporters are overthetop, and others are not. You know the difference because you no doubt see it yourself.

[SahaleArm]

6. Well most Dean supporters...

believe that patriotism is a bad word, and since dissent is the highest form of patriotism? Well you be the judge:).

[meegbear]

22. Huh??

Did you not take your lithium this morning?

[SahaleArm]

34. It's a joke.

Chill out, notice the little smiley:). It was a joke meant to poke fun of Dean supporters who can't stand criticism of their candidate.

[CMT]

7. I see about as many anti-Dean threads as support

and no one is stopping any other campaign from getting their messages out. I think there are lots of Dean supporters and some are not aware that someone has already posted something and so it gets reposted. I know that happens and it is regrettable, but it usually gets closed as a dupe pretty quickly. I see more threads which pretty violently attack Dean than Dean supporters who go after other candidates--does it happen? sure, but all campaigns are guilty.

[meegbear]

16. But this has been going on with the dean people since late spring ....

You would see non-stop posts about him, everything from his policy to:

"Do you know why dean will be our next president? Because the actor who played the president in Independence Day looks just him. Coincidence? I don't think so." - I wanted to scream when I read that.

By summer, this place was the deanRepublic. Then when Clark entered, the shit hit the fan. They started ripping him while claimimg civility. Total hypocracy.

As I've said before, I like dean. It's his supporters I can't stand.

[salin]

25. now I see

from where the angst resides. Once I got used to it - I have found your reactions at times rather humorous, as opposed to some of the just blind bashing that goes on beyond various 'fanatics' for different candidates, your comments have a biting sort of tongue in cheek while poking a hornets nest sort of quality.

Context - even when it comes to 'getting' other posters - is always helpful.

[VermontDem2004]

19. You mean you?

You constantly bash Dean, hell even your hobbies are taunting Dean supporters according to your profile.

Are you talking about this type of bashing?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=600424

Or how about this?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=600200

or this?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=108&topic_id=68330

Yes Dean supporters do Bash but I swear to god I have seen more posts that were inflammatory that were bashing dean then vice versa.

[meegbear]

26. Damn straight ...

I refuse to make this place the deanRepublic.

[VermontDem2004]

29. This isn't deanRepublic

This is Democratic Underground. I don't there is a single person who does more bashing then you, I can find at least several rudiculous posts bashing Dean that got banned like Dean can't spell, Dean supporters are Zealots and so on and you are the ones who say the Dean supporters are out of line.

[w4rma]

27. Another meegbear whine. Nearly all meegbear posts are anti-Dean posts.

A search of **only** the past 24 hours turned up:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=600089&mesg_id=600426
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=600274&mesg_id=600330
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=599129&mesg_id=599188
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=600424&mesg_id=600438
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=183589&mesg_id=183628

[VermontDem2004]

30. My point exactly

I don't think there is a single person on DU that does more bashing then meegbear.

[sangh0]

3. They're not lunatics

They're just as insane in the daylight!

[kodi]

5. only a few appear over the top. the rest seem rational

all candidates have their groupies.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

8. some meet the uncritical criteria.

some.

[charlie]

9. It's usually the fanatical contingent

in each candidate group calling the other guys fanatics. Don't worry about it.

[DealsGapRider]

10. That's crazy. Every Dean supporter I know, including yours truly...

...is eminently reasonable.

The fanatics are with Mr. Mind Control Weapons in Space...er, um...Dennis Kucinich.

I keep waiting to see him appear on that new show on HBO, Carnival...the one with all the circus freaks.

[CMT]

12. I think Kucinich people are reasonable

they think DK is the best and on some issues he is.

[JohnKleeb]

15. Its people like Deals that make us lose our cool

I think most of you are reasonable.

[DealsGapRider]

17. I disagree but that's not where the fanatacism lies.

The thing that makes Kucinich's supporters fanatics is because they actually think he can win the nomination. And presumably the general election. There's just no way in hell that will happen. If we made the supremely idiotic decision to nominate the man, we would get slaughtered. Yet they persist in backing him, and every calorie of energy they expend on him is not devoted to a Democrat with a real chance of winning. I'm sorry, but I have nothing but contempt for their delusional support for a guaranteed loser of a candidate.

[JohnKleeb]

23. Look I have my candiate, you have yours

let live, I am a democrat first and a Kucinich supporter second.

[sangh0]

11. Because it's strange that

centrist-hating Dems are backing the most centrist Dem candidate

[blm]

20. On that aspect of it I share your skepticism....

it is strange that those who bashed centrists the most in 2001 and 2002 here at DU, turned to Dean and now claim they knew he was a centrist from the beginning.

[sangh0]

28. It's strange that

people who think the Democratic Party should "move to the left", support a candidate who insults notable liberals.

[Hep]

13. I'm rational

The reason some Dean supporters appear to be uncritical has a lot to do with the fact that few people here come with rational criticisms.

There's no calm answer to claims that Dean's a draft dodger (antiDean claim 1b). There's no ration al response to claims that he waffles, or that he wants to raise social security age, or that he wants to cut medicare.

If someone wants to disagree with his position on Gun control or his changing of mind on the death penalty, I'll gladly talk about where I am and how I fel. But people come here claiming the most ridiculous stuff. And of course, any attempts to defend him come across as fanatical by the very people who brought the arguments.

They can't discredit our candidate with anything of substance, so they try to discredit his supporters as uncritical fanatics.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

24. Every issue you ticked off as "ridiculous stuff" in fact has substance

unless of course you choose to dismiss them as "ridiculous stuff".

[sangh0]

31. Is it rational

to claim that Dean did NOT say he wants to raise the SS age even AFTER Dean himself admitted he had said it?

[mzmolly]

32. Is it rational to claim that Dean wants to raise the retirement age

after Dean dismissed the idea?

[sangh0]

33. Answer the question

or are you afraid to?

[kodi]

37. rational? perhaps. yet objective people dont make sweeping statements

i like howard dean and his positions and will likely vote for him in my primary and i bet he is a whole helluva' lot smarter than most of his supporters.

why? because unlike his more ardent groupies, he admits that he should not be the issue nor the focal point and that regardless of his policies, what he is attempting to do is stimulate a sustainable democracy from the grass roots. and that is more important than any single or group of issues.

people argue over dean's versus other candidates' policies without taking a step back and realizing what a valuable tool dean's campaign has revealed to us.

man, its bottled lightning. participatory democracy. that's the wave dean is surfing.

it like th old adage of giving a man a fish or teaching him to fish. what dean's campaign and movement has done is teach us as individuals how use the political system to be heard effectively.

his message, constantly, is that "we" can make a difference and that the tools are there to do so.

regardless of any other legacy dean leaves us, his campaign has shown us that we are going to have to do it ourselves, that we can play a part and have our voices be heard.

so rather than puffing up and strutting that your guy can whip my guy's ass over arcane policy points, instead, turn to local political activism, and make a difference right in your own home town and across the nation.

that's dean's real message. and it is more important than anything else he talks about and the only one worth a damn.

and those who focus on the man instead of the message he carries are the only deannies consider fools.

[salin]

18. there are fanatics around at least 4 candidates

Clark, Dean, Kerry, and Kucinich. There are knee-jerk responders (bashers) for Clark, Dean and Kerry. Those that don't go for Kucinich, for the most part don't display the same kind of venomous hostility against DK and/or his supporters.

Frankly I don't think that Dean supporters are picked on more than the other fan groups. It appears to be a house, or forum, pretty divided. As such proclaiming as this thread does a special status and then projecting a rationale for the behavior - seems to be a bit over reaching and more likely to fan the fueding than anything else.

Just my two cents.

Btw, the supporters (though quieter in demeanor) for Edwards and Gephardt (and the one or two for Lieberman) are overall much better "behaved" as a group, and not quite as blinded by fanship or reactive bashing of others.

[LoneStarLiberal]

21. We Are All FANATICS!

All of us, no matter who we support, are considered fanatics when viewed by those outside of our own campaigns.

For instance, I have been labeled an "unthinking Clark bot" because of my support for Wes Clark in light of things that others view as completely disqualifying him. The only difference is that I think certain things are more important than these people, and they feel other things are more important than my set if preferences.

That's all it is, nothing more.

Anyone who labels anyone else as a fanatic is probably just as much a fanatic in their own beliefs.

[Skinner]

35. I'm locking this thread.

These discussion threads about the supporters of each candidate are just inflammatory. Most of the responses in here are just flaming.

Skinner
DU Admin

[mzmolly]

36. Were 'fanatics' because Dean is kicking ass with his POPULIST

movement (of which we are a part)...

Were fanatics because we put our $$ where our mouth is.

Were fanatics because we don't let 'them' twist facts.

Were fanatics because our guy is kickin bootay in the polls with the help of said 'fanatics'.

Were fanatics because the Grass Roots Dean effort is proving to be one of the most amazing contributions made to politics, and will forever change (the way it's done.)

You see, CMT, by calling us fanatics, they have an excuse for failing to accomplish the same. It's projecting. Eases the anxiety of the falling poll numbers for their candidate.

So....call me a fanatic, I know what you really mean.

I wonder how long it will be before 'fanatical' Dean haters reply..."Dean's is NOT a populist!"

I fully agree with you about Dean supporters. I feel we are some of the most educated realistic and even apprehensive supporters on DU. I don't agree with Dean on 'every' issue. In fact Dean himself says "don't fall in love with me, because you wont agree with me on everything I do."

[HazMat]

38. Dean supporters aren't Democrats

by their own admission, they're "new to the process". Why should non Dems control our nominating process ?

IMO, Dean supporters are the same type of people who hop on any kind of bandwagon because "it's the thing to do". They're a bunch of spoiled, yuppie kids from the Rockefeller Republican suburbs who will become real Repubs once Dean get's slammed in the general.

This is why Dems are always susceptible to these landslides.
The "latte liberal" hipsters have way too much power in determining our nominee. It's always gotta be a damn trendy circus to pick the Dem nominee -- a "movement". Name the last guy to win the presidency because of a "movement". Answer: none. The McGovern model all over again. Forget about ideology. Dean is McGovern because he has no chance in hell of winning and we serious minded Democrats all know this from now, but the kool-aid drinkers lead, as always, as has been the problem with this party for about half of a century now.

The Repubs may be a lot of dirty and evil things, but stupid is not one of them. They know how to win. They know that getting your foot in the door in the first and most important step in advancing an agenda. They win more often than not because winning is their top priority and the people who control their nominating process understand this.

Unfortunately for us it's shaping up to be "pass the kool-aid" once again.