The "Perception" That We'll Have a Hard Time Beating in '04

[Starpass]

I haven't been at DU for about two weeks because I wanted to get the 'flavor' of what is going on in the public's mind. We tend to get a bit caught up in what we think is going on. There is one impression I kept getting over and over; unfortunately it is something we brought upon ourselves a couple years ago.

I see that indeed there are many people who range from disturbed to very upset about what is going on in our country. Yes, they are upset over the things we talk about here; ie., Iraq, economy, brutal disregard for middle class America, etc. They complain and some outright rage. HOWEVER, they also believe (and I need a barf bag to say it) that Bush is a moral, Christian, good man; and thus, they don't pin their rage and disgust on him. They absolutely do not see the morality in things like lying to this nation in order to send troops and civilians to their deaths for corporate America. Or the morality of gutting out the lives of middle class Americans, etc. Morals means "sex stuff" and thus, Bush, is a "good man".

We stupidly helped create this mess by not attacking a totally vulnerable bastard in '00----my god, he was a drunk, a coke snorter, a bum who couldn't run a business anywhere but into the ground, etc. And we took a pass on it. We cannot bring it up now..we really can't. However, they are free to attack the personal hell out of our nominee, and they will. Any counterattack on him, will be brushed off like CA brushed off Arnold's fondling.

About the only hope we have (and I fear we messed this one up as well) is to tremendously push the family relationship between the Bushes and the Saudi royal family and all the hands off treatment they are getting since 9/11---i.e, putting out the seeds that the Bushes are part of 9/11 or protecting those who were really involved. Bottom line---I don't care what you 'think' the people are hearing from our candidates because basically they are not hearing anything nor paying attention to them. But, they definitely still cling to the notion that George is a good boy and they still cling to George a lot stronger than most of you here believe. It's a real problem for us, unless we can personally destroy him.

[WilliamPitt]

1. I got an interesting perspective this weekend

Went up to New Hampshire (aka Bush Country) this weekend to visit my mom. Drove down several long NH highways that wend their way through about a dozen towns to get there.

Saw ten huge Dean signs...

Several huge Kerry signs...

A couple Clark signs...

One Edwards sign...

Dozens of Dean, Kerry, Clark, Edwards bumper stickers on cars with NH plates...

And not one, not one, not a single Bush sign or bumper sticker anywhere.

Take that for what it's worth.

[Starpass]

2. Will-not this last weekend but the weekend before

we traveled through NH and over into Vermont all the way to Lake Champlain (Burlington) and back and then last weekend went over to North Conway. I saw one Howard Dean lawn sign. That was it. Period in both states!! Really surprised over in Vermont. There wasn't one available hotel room in the state of Vermont because of leaf peepers. A time to really display things and there was nothing. A couple days ago I was going into workout at the gym here in Maine and up drove an old car with a big Dennis K sign in the back side window. And I did see an SUV at our mall will a W with a slash through it and the words: Let's Not Elect Him...Again. I'm glad you saw some things because I was really bummed out.

[Starpass]

3. P.S.--what I'm talking about isn't lawn signs, etc.

I'm talking about interviews with "common folk" on TV, in newspapers, etc. While they bitch, they just don't go after Bush, the person. I don't know who they think is doing this 'stuff' to them or why they can't get the connection. But they don't. I want to cry when I hear people complaining and then say they think Bush is a good guy, think he's doing best he can, etc. We still have to nail this bastard PERSONALLY. He has to be caught in a way that shows at about the Sesame Street level that he is not a moral man.

[CWebster]

31. Sounds like you watched the focus group on C-span

That was discouraging on some levels, but I think you just have to keep perservering and putting the superior message out there. eventually it resonates.

You must appeal to people's better angels to raise the hackles of moral indignation, rather than troll the bottom. That only serves to defuse your credibility.

One day you wake up and it reaches critical mass, so keep the message the higher message.

[WilliamPitt]

7. These were lawn signs and roadside signs

[Malva Zebrina]

40. I was in New Hamshire on the twelfth

and saw a lot of Dean signs--on lawns and cars--especially in Portsmouth.

[bearfartinthewoods]

51. not to mute your point but he is running un-opposed

why would you expect to see bush signs a full year before an election?

[LoneStarLiberal]

4. We Need Attacks and Alternatives

Bottom line---I don't care what you 'think' the people are hearing from our candidates because basically they are not hearing anything nor paying attention to them. But, they definitely still cling to the notion that George is a good boy and they still cling to George a lot stronger than most of you here believe. It's a real problem for us, unless we can personally destroy him.

It has to come with a firm alternative to him, though.

Simply tearing into him now will only fit us into another comfortable "liberal" stereotype: The Angry Liberal. They'll "ole!" that aside and take another four years in the White House thank you very much.

My take on the bottom line is that we DO need to hit Bush and hit him hard. Blanket attacks are not going to work, however, in part because of the reason Starpass discusses above: Despite his failures, people still LIKE Bush. Demonizing him as he so richly deserves will only send a message of incredulity to people (i.e. "oh he can't have screwed up ALL of these things!"). We should focus on three issues that are easy to make cases for alternatives on such as: Iraq, Energy, Economy.

By narrowing the list of things we focus our resources, get an effective message across and WIN! But this cannot be an out-and-out hate fest. We have to attack him, yes, but we have to attack him and offer up viable alternative policies AT THE SAME TIME.

[blm]

10. The media already is beating that storyline. The Angry Liberals.

We have to be smart enough to not get pulled into that trap.

[Bandit]

5. A few things God Hates

``These six things doth the Lord hate; yea, seven are an abomination unto him:
A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood.
A heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief,
A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.
He that justifieth the wicked, and he that condemneth the just, even they both are abomination to the Lord.
Divers weights, and divers measures, both of them are alike abominations to the Lord."

"A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood." GW Bush* to a tee

"A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren." Rush Limbaugh, Hannity, Coulter, Cheney, Bennett, etc.

Religion can be used in our efforts also.

[TrogL]

17. Where's that from?

Leviticus?

[southpaw72]

59. Proverbs, I believe (eom)

[Malva Zebrina]

44. all of that may be good advice

but I think that keeping religion out of a campaign entirely should be a goal. It becomes an issue, when it shouldn't be.

[LeahMira]

49. Religion, no. Spirituality, yes!

but I think that keeping religion out of a campaign entirely should be a goal. It becomes an issue, when it shouldn't be.

I think that Democrats are missing the boat by refusing to speak to the common values that some, if not most religions embody. Isn't it possible to frame the issues in that way? Don't spiritual things like hope, respect, and altruism give meaning to life? Aren't those the kinds of things that no matter what your religion, or even if you are a devout atheist, you honor?

Maybe things need to be brought down to a personal level, in that instead of some "crusade" to spread the American way of life to the rest of the world, people need to think about how little time they have themselves to enjoy family and a little leisure time to spend out in the sunshine and fresh air or to read a good book, not to mention some time to volunteer for a cause they support. These things are the kinds of things that make life worthwhile for most of us.

[loyalsister]

58. common values

need not be labelled religion or spirituality.

[T Wolf]

6. sad to say, Starpass,

But I think you are right. The majority of people in the US are simply not paying attention enough to understand the truth of what is being done to this country, and the world, by the cabal in Washington. As a result, people can lose their job, become homeless, bury a military casualty and NEVER make the connection between * and the bad things in their life.

The few outlets for getting information out are totally overshadowed by the corporate-owned, GOP-controlled mass media. Why do you think 70% of Americans still think Saddam personally piloted all four planes on 9/11/01? They called Raygun teflon - Bush* has him beat by light years.

Personally, I do not think that any "normal" attack will succeed because of the dominance of the repukes and the gullibility of the American people. As has been said, the POS could be filmed raping a nun on the White House lawn and it would have no effect on his "popularity."

It is going to take something totally unconventional to bring down the regime. What that could possibly be, I have no idea. And I am not optimistic at all that anything will be done. I am keeping my passport up-to-date.

[MuseRider]

8. So who do they pin their anger

on? If it is the people in his administration then they will need to vote him out because that is not likely to change much. Maybe there is something to that. God help us if they still think he is a moral, good man.

Edit BTW, I am glad you are back with us

[Starpass]

11. Muse---I would love to know!!!

Honest to god, I have no idea who they blame. Why did they hang in there with Ronnie?? I think they believe that this is just the way "things are in the world" and that Bush, the moral warrior king, is out there trying to help them and trying his hardest against the evil forces, blah, blah. They can tell you what was right or wrong about every pitch in the World Series but they have no clue that Bush created the mess they are in and intends to create more. After all, these pathetic morons still believe that Saddam was involved in 9/11 even though Bush and company admitted he was not. And Bush and company are laughing about that all the way to election '04. Sadly, we have no message that beats this kind of gross ignorance; that's why we have to have a "personal scandel" on him in order for these sad dopes to get pumped up about.

[MuseRider]

23. I have no clue

why they hung with Ronnie except that he managed to make them feel good. It will be important for our candidate to be firm in his/her opposition to Bush* but also to make people feel good about themselves and the future with a new President. If we just stay negative and fight we will lose big time and with the way these guys throw out attrocious things every single day it will be difficult.

[CWebster]

37. Why, they blame Clinton,

of course.

[janekat]

9. WE attacked him- the media just didn't report it. Our problem is the media

n/t

[camero]

12. Um, a slight correction is in order

He has a brutal disregard for WORKING class America. Most may not care for the working poor, but when they're gone, who will bring your food, or babysit your kids, or mop the floors, etc, etc?

Actually this also includes the middle class. Try seeing the big picture.

[Starpass]

14. Camero--and the working poor also see him as a moral man

who is fighting the bad guys, blah, blah. That is why we don't have a 30% approval rating on him even after all he has done. He is not seen as "bad"........the middle class, the working poor, the poor, etc. couldn't see their way out of a paper bag when it came to Ronnie either (as they withered away). Don't think all these people are waiting for a 'savior'...they think they have one. If we can't demonstrate that this guy is immoral up to his butt and beyond, they are not going to listen to any substitute message.

[camero]

19. You don't get around many poor people do you?

The discontent of this subset is growing, with fears of job losses and loss of health benefits. They are a big reason that his approval rating is down to 42% in some polls and slipping.

I'll give you an example. A good friend of mine who works as a security guard at a major corporation was very pro-Bush after Sept. 11 because of his 90% approval rating and the reasons you stated above.

All I had to do was point out a few verses in the Bible that points to the avarice of the rich and with Bush basically turning his back on the poor. I have seen a sea change in his attitude towards Bush.

The poor are a little smarter than you think, they just have to get past thier fears. Also, you did not answer my question. Who will do your bidding when the working poor are dead? The middle class has basically become a bunch of couch potatoes who could not grow thier own food if we ever had a currency collapse.

[Starpass]

27. Well, that's what you know about me

My husband is a teacher in an inner core school and we have a lot of contact with these people (and I doubt if you've seen misery like we have to deal with). He does more than teach them and go home. We have worked constantly trying to get kids and familes (a lot of them fresh off the boat) help from social workers, to housing, etc. in a housing market that has nothing to offer them. We have kids who go to school (sometimes) from 8 to 2 and are prostitutes with their moms at night to pay the bills. We have kids who drift from shelter to shelter with their siblings and try to take care of their siblings on their own. There are "kids" in this school who have gray beards=----people from other nations who have lied about their age and we are educating but they are using their presences within the school to sell drugs, buy bodies for prostitution, etc. My husband's adopted daughter is low functioning. She and her husband work hard to keep the "trailer" over their head and the heads of their two kids. We see this stuff every day. I clean my own house and always will. AND, the reason that we have so many aliens doing the jobs you describe is because we allow them to pay such garbage wages as the owners of businesses complain that Americans don't want to do the job-----perhaps if they offered good wages they would. And, the last thing on these peoples minds is politics. In fact, they simply don't have a clue, don't vote, and assume this is what their life will always be. Husband (putting career on line) just gave a lecture to his students pointing out what is happening in this nation and told them they have to get their parents out to vote this administration out or there will be no hope in their lives. My husband's daughter has no clue who the president is, how to vote, where to vote, etc. and would never, never vote because it is a total unknown in her world.

[camero]

33. I've seen everything your husband has seen

and more. So don't go attacking me when you don't include all who are being screwed by this junta. (I am detecting your prejudice)

I drove a cab until my diabetes got the best of me (on insulin now) and I have seen just about the lowest that mankind has to offer.

While I was not a drug addict or alcoholic like many of these people, I have been homeless and hungry and was able to overcome it.

As for your husband's daughter, teach her. That is your job.

[JohnOneillsMemory]

13. How We Win in '04! (started this as a seperate thread, works here, too.)

Here’s a plan to win in ’04. I truly believe we can and we will!

WE NEED ALL THE POWER OF KNOWN TRUTHS,
THE OUTRAGE OF TRUTHS REVEALED
AND THE EFFICIENCY OF ADVERTISING COMBINED TO WIN IN 2004.

CHALLENGE:
The hyper-nationalistic post 9/11 uber-patriotism, whipped up to levels not seen since the House Un-American Activities Committee hearings of the 1950's needs to be directed back to the healthier origins of American civic virtue, the American Revolution and the rule of law over brute force.

SOLUTION:
To make sense to the war mindset electorate in '04, we must speak 'their language.'

>I envision a media-friendly theme park approach to alerting and educating our fellow citizens.

>There is already universal acceptance, a vocabulary, a costume, songs, storied personalities, the idea of virtuous citizens triumphing over wicked tyrants, in short: an accepted Disney-fied national mythology. It is at the core of national identity we are raised to embrace from birth. That is, RED, WHITE AND BLUE=JUSTICE!!

>So, instead of trying to pull the patriotic American mind back 350 degrees to explain how our government has been hijacked from us for years, let us push forward 10 degrees to come full circle with the first American Revolution.

NOW THE PLAN:
1) This election's bumper sticker themes for Democrats should be:
LET FREEDOM RING AGAIN!
TAKE BACK THE FLAG AND TAKE BACK OUR COUNTRY!
IMPEACH KING GEORGE AND SUPPORT OUR TROOPS!

2) A symbol to wear-Liberty Bell pins? Blue ribbons?

3 All the imagery of Revolutionary times should be used, the tricorn hats, fife and drum corps, more flags than can be counted.

4) Town criers complete with bells ringing at every street corner and public event imaginable with the list of King George's crimes etc.
Lunch hour in major cities has thousands milling on the streets. Reach them.

5) In the spirit of Keep It Simple Stupid, we have a list called the Bill of Rights to re-sell in the emotionalized market of ideas.

6) Every sympathetic, courageous journalist and activist should be apprised of this 'Talking Point' with the repetitious lock-step efficiency of the fascists we are opposing.

7) Every teacher and librarian should be asked to put up posters and pamphlets about the importance of the Bill of Rights, the US Constitution and the American Revolution.
Especially high school and college teachers this election cycle.

You get the idea. It's a theme park approach to educating our fellow citizens. Lots of potential here and I think this is our only hope to rescue ourselves and our planet from the PNAC and their corporateer backers.

[Starpass]

18. John--bless you....but there's only one thing...

..you see that tri-cornered hats, fife and drums, town criers, libery bells, etc. would evoke a "duh, what's dat about" from our brilliant citizenry. It would go right over their heads!!! Now, if we could have the New England Patriots selling it along with beer at the field, ya' got possibilities. To the people of this ignorant nation, the only "Patriots" they know are the guys in the red, white and blue uniforms playing at Foxboro, MA.

[LeahMira]

52. Advertising exec, John?

Some clever ideas! If you aren't into advertising/marketing, you ought to be!

I like your theme-park concept at the same time as I'm thinking it's a bit much for my taste. But you have a point that I think we forget... we are sometimes seen as the wet blanket always objecting to everything the Republicans are doing. You bet I object, but I think we'll get farther if we manage to make politics, voting, and being involved a lot of FUN.

Hey! FUN is not a four-letter word.

To make sense to the war mindset electorate in '04, we must speak 'their language.'

Yep. It won't get them all, but it will certainly get some. One of the first things I remember from my teaching is that if you want to teach you have to begin where the student is. Good ideas, John!

[Bandit]

56. Hard to argue against such a simple approach with such a history of

American tradition and patriotism all rolled into one. Good thought process going on here. :thumbsup:

[redqueen]

15. Call me crazy, but I think attacking Bush is a mistake.

Attack his policies, attack the results of those policies, but don't attack the person. People don't like that. They think it's 'mean'. Clinton did great when Republicans were attacking his character. People want to root for an underdog, and if Bush can claim that status then we've got that to worry about as well.

IMHO the right strategy is to focus on presenting Americans with a plan to solve the problems they face. Bush already tried and failed. You don't need to tell people that, and if they need to be told they probably are in the 'bush party loyalist' category that wouldn't believe the sky is blue if bush said it wasn't.

Give Americans something to vote FOR. Tell them who they should vote AGAINST and, again IMO, they'll rebel.

With God as my witness if we blow this I am DONE with this party. There is no excuse for losing to the shrub again short of compromised voting systems. And even then it's only an excuse of their election strategy, not their leadership.

[MuseRider]

20. I think you might have

something here. By reading through the posts I get the impression that we do need to attack but Bush* is given a pass always. Not so his admin. SO, we should attack the policies and the advisors to show that Bush* will not change things unless he changes his advisors. We know that will not happen. Look at Clintons admin, they were not all of the same mind so we had a more balanced look at things and life was better. We should attack his admin for being anything but bipartisan and show that change for the better is not likely unless this gets changed. I think the desire for change is there but it is too complicated to think about for many folks. I hope whoever our candidate is has the chance and the desire to fight off all the accusations and the smarts to turn them back on the accusers.

[mikehiggins]

42. Leave Bush alone

The candidate should leave Bush alone. There are going to be more than enough voices raised against the Bush League in the year to come. The leader of the Democratic Party should NEVER attack Bush personally, but restrict him/herself (hey, we can hope the Ambassador has a shot, can't we?) to pointing out shortcomings in the policy.

Painting Dubya as a "bad guy" won't work within the US, though foriegn leaders have no illusions. Here our guy will have to talk about the Ashcrofts and Rumsfelds and the neocons and all the rest, while the unions and MoveOn and the rest blast Bush on a regular basis.

Jeeze, I hope they're smart enough to print up a zillion copies of Bush, Sr.'s reasons for not taking Saddam out and hand it to anyone who can read. Show how this administration even ignores the father of their own leader, a President who waged a successful war, in order to follow a plan Bush, Sr., laughed out of his office over a decade ago.

This, by the way, is one reason I support Clark (even if he is a waffling, war-criminal, Waco-commanding, secret republican stalking horse for Hilary Clinton and the DLC AND the Freemasons--I think I've covered it all, right?) He's the only one who can stand across from Bush and legitimately attack him on foriegn policy from the point of view that says, whatever you do, I can do it better.

We are not going to get any traction from claiming Bush was wrong, only from claiming he is the wrong guy for what the nation thinks it needs, someone actually able to handle the economy AND the war on terrorism without tripping over his own feet.

Anyway, that's my opinion. Your mileage may vary.

[xxqqqzme]

30. I'm w/ U

After '00 election, '02 midterms, and the latest asleep @ the wheel, CA recall - '04 is the Democratic Party's last chance. I am sick of feeling abandoned, ignored & patronized.

[Wednesdays]

36. Show that Bush* doesn't have a plan...

I pointed this out during his "news conference." When asked about what he's going to do about the bombing attacks, he just rambled. He doesn't have a plan about anything! (At least not one he's about to tell us).

We need to highlight this during the campaign.

[GOPFighter]

16. I've always wondered why anyone would be proud to be a conservative...

...I mean it's liberals who have pushed for the things America is most proud of: Laws protecting workers - like an end to child labor, instituting the 40 hour work week, minimum safety standards in the workplace, minimum wage laws, Social Security and Medicare; civil rights laws, anti-discrimination laws, we set up government programs to bring power to rural, impoverished parts of America. Conservatives opposed all these programs, some of them violently (like civil rights laws).

So why are we now so hated?

[Starpass]

21. GOPFighter, we are hated because

..the people don't know that. They also don't know that so much of those things are only a product of the last 50 years and are on the verge of being lost forever. They think that "stuff" is just there because you are in the US of A and will be granted forever and ever. AND, the repukes have brained washed them into believing that taxes are evil and all taxes must be done away with except those to line the pockets of the military/industrial complex which they intend to use to open up markets around the world, etc. The people don't get the connection between having to pay for these things or lose them....but the stupid bastards are going to find out once Bush gets another four years. They have been charmed into believing that corporate America is their savior and will do good for them. Corporate America is anything but American and it's going to rip out their gizzard and feed it to them for breakfast. I want to save this nation. But if they keep falling for all this shit, I'm going to sit by and enjoy the misery every one of these "too ignorant to vote" dumb asses have coming to them and their families. I'm now totally convinced that this is going to have to happen before someone wakes up and says "Yo, I think we are getting fucked".

[camero]

24. The way to win

A "fee" is also a tax. A "tuition hike" is also a tax. Sales and consumption taxes are also a tax.

Any increase in these are really tax hikes and when we show this, people will see that with $166 Billion for Iraq and none for home, that the repubs are the real tax and spend party. They just don't give it back to you in services. It just goes overseas.

[LeahMira]

53. Greed motivates...

Any increase in these are really tax hikes and when we show this, people will see that with $166 Billion for Iraq and none for home, that the repubs are the real tax and spend party. They just don't give it back to you in services. It just goes overseas.

Good point! Although Republicans hate paying taxes for social services (why don't the lazy bums just get a job?), I imagine they hate paying money to send overseas even more. Supporting the troops is one thing, but supporting social services for the entire nation of Iraq is a whole other ball game.

[redqueen]

22. Groupthink & media consolidation.

Groupthink says 'affirmative action is bad, it's legal to discriminate against white males'!

Groupthink says 'unions are bad, they make prices go up!'

Groupthink says 'new deal / great society programs are bad! they make people lazy and help all those poor people who are probably poor because they're lazy and stupid!'

It's easy to draw people into following groupthink, once you get the Fairness Doctrine repealed (thanks Reagan!), and the Telecom Act passed (thanks Clinton!).


The sad thing is that most of these people really agree, on a deeper level, with the issues of fairness and such... but they've been badly manipulated for going on 20 years. I live in Texas so I deal with this daily. They aren't bad people, just not the sharpest knives in the drawer, and they've mostly been raised with this idea that conservative = good, liberal = bad.

Spend 15 minutes talking to them about conservative / liberal POLICIES, though, and a lot of them will show you they're real quick learners and will s***can that dogma as soon as they see how liberal ideals actually benefit them and provide for the common good.

However if you go on the attack re: policies / politicians, then usually the defenses go up immediately so all hope of communication is lost.

And this is all just from my personal experince. Maybe it's a texan thing. ;)

[blm]

25. Same experience here in SC. We have to beat the Angry Liberal meme.

It's up to us. We'll have NO help from the media. They are pushing Rove's meme eagerly.

[w4rma]

29. Don't wait for others to do it for you. Lead by example.

If you want to "beat" some meme, then go beat it.

Because, right now, you're pushing that meme. Much like you pushed the Bush-lite and cockroach mem about Kerry. :shrug:

[blm]

39. That's some reach you've got there. Do you box?

Don't look now, but this is a message board. The media points its angry liberal Dem camera at its favorite Dem of choice. I have no control over the media.

btw...that wasn't me on stage at the Dem debate Sunday night calling Kerry "Bushlite". Now, who is it again who would even think of talking like that to millions of people?

[camero]

43. But you can get people to stop watching the media

Point out the hipocracy and get them to read more (or read to them if that is the case.)

[blm]

47. I spread the truth everywhere I can,

but my greater point should be obvious. Why deliver them their dream candidate, The "perceived" Angry Liberal?

Why not select a real, solid liberal with the more reasoned voice?

[CWebster]

35. Anger has its place

As long as it's righteous anger against an immoral force. So, you have to paint your opponent as lacking in moral and ethical fiber, not by utilizing scandal-mongering, but by demonstrating an alternative to moral failings in leadership--lying, gutting environmental restrictions, corporate corruption that threatens pensions, alienation from the world community, etc.

Martin Luther King, Jr was the master of this.

[av8rdave]

32. I agree, Redqueen

Been a Texas resident for 16 years, and have found that if you talk people, minds are made up and you won't change them. If you talk issues, it's not usually hard to get your point across.

av8rdave

[maggrwaggr]

26. exactly. that's what people need to realize

I try to tell people that liberals fought and died for everything they now take for granted. Including the formation of this country in the first place!

[Kanary]

60. reacting rather than thinking...

"I've always wondered why anyone would be proud to be a conservative..."

This was posted on another forum, under the heading "Why I'm proud to be a conservative". I think it's a matter of finding someone below to blame and hate.
*************
A young woman was about to finish her first year of college. Like many her age, she considered herself a very liberal Democrat, and was for distribution of all wealth. She felt deeply ashamed that her father was a rather staunch Republican.

One day she was challenging her father on his beliefs and opposition to higher taxes on the rich & more welfare programs. In the middle of her diatribe (drawn largely from the lectures she heard from her professors), he stopped her and asked how she was doing in school. She answered rather haughtily that she had a 4.0 GPA, and let him know that it was tough to maintain. She had to study all the time, and never had time to go out and party like other people she knew. She didn't even have time for a boyfriend, and didn't really have many college friends since she spent her time studying. She even took a more difficult curriculum.

Her father listened and then asked, "How is your friend Mary." She replied, "Mary is barely getting by, all she has is barely a 2.0 GPA.” She added, "All she takes are easy classes and she never studies." But to explain further she continued emotionally, "But Mary is so very popular on campus, college for her is a blast. She goes to parties all the time and often doesn't even show up for classes because she is too hung over."

Her father then asked his daughter, "Why don't you go to the Dean's
Office and ask him to deduct a 1.0 off your 4.0 GPA and give it to your friend Mary who only has a 2.0." He continued, "That way you will both have a 3.0 GPA and certainly that would be a fair equal distribution of GPA."

The daughter, visibly shocked by the father's suggestion angrily fired back, "That wouldn't be fair! I worked really hard for mine, I did without and Mary has done little or nothing, she played while I worked real hard!"

The father slowly smiled and said, "Welcome to the Republican Party."

[maggrwaggr]

28. The party of baby killers and homosexuals

that's how a great number of average Americans see us.

Sorry, but that's the bottom line for a lot of people.

[blm]

41. don't forget "gun stealers, weak military, and weepy liberals"

.

[progressiverealist]

46. yeah, and didn't Clinton gas his own people

or, uh, sumph'thin

[maggrwaggr]

61. my point is that on the abortion issue alone we lose 40% of the population

perhaps.

A whole lot of single issue voters out there who will NEVER vote for anyone who is "pro abortion".

Ya know?

That's one of the biggest divides in our country today.

[ThoughtCriminal]

34. An interesting local poll

I normally ignore self-selected online polls, but our local paper ran one last week that asked "With the Presidential election just over one year away, What is your approval rating for President Bush?"

Very High - 37%
High - 0%
Average - 0%
Low - 25%
Poor - 26%
Failing - 11%

Wow 62% "Low" or worse. OK, this is almost certainly a tiny sample of self selected people. This is generally a very consevative community.

The thing that got my attention were the zeros for High and Average. It seems that the people who responded to the poll either think he walks on water or is a moron.

[rucky]

45. This Tells Me

that the lines of perception have already been drawn: Nobody (who reads the paper and votes in the poll) has a neutral perception of *.

Which leads me to believe that our strategy should involve a) being likeable and b) being proactive in policy discussions.

People have already made up their minds for or against Bush. Now it's up to the Democrats to give the negative people a reason to go to the polls. Anger won't do it. Slamming * won't do it. The person we need to challenge * should be positive, upbeat about America, and full of ideas. And that person is...

[Blue_Roses]

38. Yes, I agree

the Christian right are one of his main supporters and they despise change and immorality. As far as "destroying" bush's reputation, he has a huge damage control team and they know how to smooth it over like glass. I lived in Texas during his run for governor and he bashed Ann Richards horribly as a drunk and an alcoholic, while all the while he was hiding a DWI arrest.

One thing that you have to notice about bush, is that he is extremely vunerable when pressed about issues he is very uncomfortable with or unknowledgeable about (which covers alot of the US policies, as well as foreign). He bites the side of his lip and get's irritable and cranky as shown today in his press conference. Do you remember him calling that reporter an "asshole" during election 2000? He thought the mike was off and while smiling to the crowd, he leaned over to Dick Cheney and said, "that guy is an asshole." This is the real "christian" bush.

I disagree with trying to "destroy" his fraudulence, it comes out all on its own with the right coaxing. Trying to destroy him only makes us look desperate and that is something we definitely are not, especially since we have some great candidates running.

[Zorra]

48. Good news: 2 recent "converts"

Recently I have spoken with 2 people that voted for * in 2000, after not speaking with them for quite awhile.

In the past I had some conversations with these folks pointing out several reasons why * is a terrible Resident. I used to think that political conversations with conservatives were a worthless enterprise, and had given up. But shrub's continuing lunacy has validated my arguments for these folks. These folks are ABB now. One of them likes Kucinich. Go figure.

Exact quotes from these folks:

Person #1: "Bush is the devil."
Person #2: "Bush is an asshole."

[NoKingGeorge]

50. LIES LIES and more LIES

One word- Liar. Print this everywhere. The American people tolerate a lot , but not lies. You can lead people to water but you cannot make them drink (somin like that). Lead them with the shout of LIES. Any freeper or religious follower may be curious enough or defensive enough to look it up and then the truths are undeniable. The only reason people beleive * is a 'good person' is because they have not seen the truth. Stoke their defensive nature and get them to the water,once they drink they cannot deny.

[Guaranteed]

55. That's right. nt

[NewYorkerfromMass]

54. We have a 'teflon' problem again (Bush is a moral, Christian, good man)

It's like Reagan redux. My only real feeling about this is :puke:
Attacking him personally won't work.
The SEC filing he 'forgot' to do is a good example of the pass he gets.
We have to prove he is an incompetent moron- economically and national security wise- and that the country would be best rid of him.

[Flying_Pig]

57. In your comments Starpass, you say, "We stupidly helped create ...

this mess...." Um, excuse me, and with all due respect, "we" did NOT create this mess. It was created for us. Look at what was allied against us in the 2000 elections;

> A mass media completely allied with the Republicans. They lied and manipulated the news to help their chosen one, while sparing no effort to denigrate Gore and those on the Left.

> Jeb Bush and Katherine Harris, who fixed the Florida votes to fall in favor of Bush, and who now appear to have escaped any responsibility or punishment for their illegal actions.

> A right-wing U.S. Supreme Court majority, that chose interpret the law in Bush's favor, an action now deemed as fraudulent by many legal scholars.

> The fact that thousands of right-wing, Republican-run corporations donated tens of millions to Bush, much in an illegal manner, and which has yet to be investigated.

Anyway, you get my point. There was no "we" there. There were so many of us who worked so hard for a different outcome (ie: Gore), only to watch our efforts abused and overturned by people who are nothing more than fascist thieves. "We" are not the one's to blame.

The biggest problem we face right now, is control of the media and press by the right-wing. We must overcome it, and then make those who conspired to overturn our democracy, pay a very big price for their actions.



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